Guest guest Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 's special ed teacher was transferred to the high school and to finish the year they have a non certified person filling the void. She has graduated with a bachelors but yet to be certified. This has been an ongoing battle led by incompetent people ...mostly the regular ed teacher. So the saga goes..... Ellen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 I'd refuse the testing if it was not being administered by someone qualified. I'm not a big fan of standardized testing but CERTAINLY not with unqualified people administering. www.chargesyndrome.info > > 's special ed teacher was transferred to the high school and to > finish the year they have a non certified person filling the void. She has > graduated with a bachelors but yet to be certified. This has been an ongoing > battle led by incompetent people ...mostly the regular ed teacher. > So the saga goes..... > Ellen > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Ellen, I'd demand that the test be given by a qualified psychologist. How about the school psychologist? How about a psychologist in the community? How about a psychologist at a Children's hospital? I'd have someone else administer and score the exam and then have that person send the results to the school. -ina, mom to Luca (3.5 years) & Vinny (22 months w/ cHARgE) --- Ellen Steinbrick esteinbrick@...> wrote: > 's special ed teacher was transferred to the > high school and to finish the year they have a non > certified person filling the void. She has > graduated with a bachelors but yet to be certified. > This has been an ongoing battle led by incompetent > people ...mostly the regular ed teacher. > So the saga goes..... > Ellen > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Comments from a background of successful due process (sustained by district and circuit federal courts): File objections, but accept that you can't prevent them from testing in their own benighted fashion. If they go ahead and do it, they will have committed procedural violations that they will have difficulty defendng. These can be important issues for due process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 ina, This has been going on for a year..... I have been asking them to explain what they are looking for with each test...They keep say to see if he is learning....true he may be learning but we were always going to at his records, teacher grades etc...UNTIL 's grades dropped...now we are going to test him to get better results.... Our meeting was horrible.... 's classroom teacher made a comment...something she said she says to frequently in the classroom. She thinks the sarcastic remark prefaced by " Honey " it is not demeaning. The 2 people working with have not sought out information that might help them help . I have tried to say visually supports often help answer a math word problem...I was told I cannot write to the teacher because she does not have the time to figure out who the info needs to go to. DUH it was to her so she would " Get It " .... I made a huge mistake in requesting this teacher. Her immaturity as a teacher is so prevalent in the way she runs a classroom and how she handles things.... I have handed it over to the lawyer and lets see where it goes. The triennial tests are too general... the ones given to all the special ed students They are not the same tests given at the last triennial..Dr. Jack Morse gave the previous triennial ...we have a built in baseline. done by someone with many years of experience testing children with CHARGE and deaf/blindness...this way there is a comparison....the team does not want to do that. The director says she will look into the test and then they come back with the same tests I have refused.... I guess I am on logic road alone.... Ellen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 you should move outa there and where to you may ask AUS I SAY LOL > > ina, > This has been going on for a year..... I have been asking them to explain > what they are looking for with each test...They keep say to see if he is > learning....true he may be learning but we were always going to at his > records, teacher grades etc...UNTIL 's grades dropped...now we are going > to test him to get better results.... > Our meeting was horrible.... > 's classroom teacher made a comment...something she said she says to > frequently in the classroom. She thinks the sarcastic remark prefaced > by " Honey " it is not demeaning. The 2 people working with have not > sought out information that might help them help . I have tried to say > visually supports often help answer a math word problem...I was told I > cannot write to the teacher because she does not have the time to figure out > who the info needs to go to. DUH it was to her so she would " Get It " .... > I made a huge mistake in requesting this teacher. Her immaturity as a > teacher is so prevalent in the way she runs a classroom and how she handles > things.... > I have handed it over to the lawyer and lets see where it goes. > The triennial tests are too general... the ones given to all the special > ed students > They are not the same tests given at the last triennial..Dr. Jack Morse > gave the previous triennial ...we have a built in baseline. done by someone > with many years of experience testing children with CHARGE and > deaf/blindness...this way there is a comparison....the team does not want to > do that. The director says she will look into the test and then they come > back with the same tests I have refused.... > I guess I am on logic road alone.... > Ellen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 For some reason my spam filter is no longer allowing the CHARGE digest to get to me, and so I have been off list for awhile. Regarding the WIAT in some places a special education teacher might administer this. But given the comlexity of our kids, I would insist on an assessment by the school psychologist, and I would not be happy with non-certified person administering it. Tim Hartshorne > > Hi friends.... > I am gathering information about the professional qualifications > needed > to administer triennial testing... > The school for 's triennial testing will be doing the following. > > WIAT II- they are allowing the non-certified long term sub to give > test? > Does anyone know if at least a minimum professional requirement is > needed to administer? > > SSRS- a social skills assessment...subjective at best since it is a > survey...teacher fills out and so does mom > > > CLEF 4 - speech eval...his speech pathologist is giving it but she is > moving and will have a long term sub meeting with us until > replacement is found > > Anyone had any success with these test in determining need and > creating > an apporpriate program? > > Since longterm sub has taken over special ed component all of 's > grades have dropped at least 1 grade. I have a report card from Feb > when she started and got one yesterday where ALL grades > dropped....Something is not working > Any advice? > Ellen mom to 9 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Tim, I agree with you on this but I have to add that the school psych should have experience doing these with children who have multiple disabilities. Ours didn't and therefore inaccurately administered the testing and then totally misrepresented the results. Patty proved her wrong. Patty proved almost everybody wrong. Bonnie, Mom to Kris 24, Patty CHARGE 22, and wife to ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Hi Bonnie, Unfortunately there are very few people in the schools with experience doing standardized testing of kids with multiple disabilities. I would say that the graduates from our program here are among the best trained, but still do not have a tremendous amount of experience. But even without direct experience, they should know the kinds of adaptations that will be necessary given the kinds of impairments that the child manifests. In general, the school psychologist is the best trained person to do this, but of course in individual cases they may not do a good job. Tim ________________________________ From: CHARGE [mailto:CHARGE ] On Behalf Of Turk22082@... Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 4:57 PM To: CHARGE Subject: Re: Re: WIAT II Tim, I agree with you on this but I have to add that the school psych should have experience doing these with children who have multiple disabilities. Ours didn't and therefore inaccurately administered the testing and then totally misrepresented the results. Patty proved her wrong. Patty proved almost everybody wrong. Bonnie, Mom to Kris 24, Patty CHARGE 22, and wife to ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. http://www.aol.com.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Are there developmental tests that take into account vision loss, hearing loss, different developmental experiences (i.e.--my son is tube fed, so if you give him a cup he won't do the " typical " hang on to the handles and put it up to his mouth). It seems like every developmental test Evan has had depends on these factors. And so of course he tests out as being very delayed in some areas (good for us, because it keeps him eligible for early intervention services). But the test administrators always give the caveat " well, he is probably more advanced than this test shows, because of the hearing loss (or he's tube fed, etc). " I'm not terribly hung up on " the numbers " because I know the important thing is that Evan shows learning and progress from his starting point--which he does. But I'm surprised there aren't assessments that take these special needs into account. (mom to Evan, 21 months) Turk22082@... wrote: Tim, I agree with you on this but I have to add that the school psych should have experience doing these with children who have multiple disabilities. Ours didn't and therefore inaccurately administered the testing and then totally misrepresented the results. Patty proved her wrong. Patty proved almost everybody wrong. Bonnie, Mom to Kris 24, Patty CHARGE 22, and wife to ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 , there are no tests designed for kids with dual sensory losses. Over the years your question has come up but because of the wild variations in the kids and the low numbers of kids to be using them, there is little incentive for the test companies to develop them. That is the short answer!! I think that there is more to this conversation that I might have missed because I was away so if there is more I would love to hear it!!! Testing our kids (your kids) is tricky but it can be done and there can be some good information gleaned. Personally, I NEVER report IQ scores and feel strongly that no one should--our kids don't meeet any of the testing criteria for figuring those things out. Using specific parts of tests (in the right way) can give us some useful information to then add to/enhance learning goals. pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Pam and I are in agreement here. I never want to do testing without knowing what the questions are. Way too often people say they want testing done, with no clear idea of the reasons. Most of the time IQ is pretty irrelevant when it comes to our kids, although there are exceptions. I have no idea why anyone would want to give one of our kids the WIAT. If I wanted to know something about their educational achievement, I would be more interested in a test that shows what skills they have learned and what the next skills they need to learn are. The Brigance is pretty good for that, or you can use one of the curriculum measurement strategies. What you use depends not only on the questions you want to answer, but also the skills the child has already developed. I think that way too often parents and teachers think that " testing " is going to make the fog clear up and we will all understand the child and just move forward. This is rarely the case, particularly with our kids. Our kids require a team approach with a lot of " experts " (including parents) putting their heads together. I have gotten phone calls and emails from psychologists and others wondering what the best tests are for a kid with CHARGE. There is no answer to that, and in fact, for many of our kids, especially those like my son who are very impaired, tests are pretty irrelevant. On the other hand, some kids with CHARGE can be tested just fine on some standardized tests. and I have done that when school districts were wondering whether to take the child out of an academic track and put them in a purely vocational track. Most assessment in education is geared towards kids with learning disabilities or mild cognitive impairments. A school psychologist might go a couple of years testing kids before coming across a kid like ours, and so obviously their skills are going to be less well developed. But as I said before, they do have the knowledge in most cases and should be able to provide useful information - if there is a useful question being asked. Tim RE: Re: WIAT II , there are no tests designed for kids with dual sensory losses. Over the years your question has come up but because of the wild variations in the kids and the low numbers of kids to be using them, there is little incentive for the test companies to develop them. That is the short answer!! I think that there is more to this conversation that I might have missed because I was away so if there is more I would love to hear it!!! Testing our kids (your kids) is tricky but it can be done and there can be some good information gleaned. Personally, I NEVER report IQ scores and feel strongly that no one should--our kids don't meeet any of the testing criteria for figuring those things out. Using specific parts of tests (in the right way) can give us some useful information to then add to/enhance learning goals. pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Pam and I are in agreement here. I never want to do testing without knowing what the questions are. Way too often people say they want testing done, with no clear idea of the reasons. Most of the time IQ is pretty irrelevant when it comes to our kids, although there are exceptions. I have no idea why anyone would want to give one of our kids the WIAT. If I wanted to know something about their educational achievement, I would be more interested in a test that shows what skills they have learned and what the next skills they need to learn are. The Brigance is pretty good for that, or you can use one of the curriculum measurement strategies. What you use depends not only on the questions you want to answer, but also the skills the child has already developed. I think that way too often parents and teachers think that " testing " is going to make the fog clear up and we will all understand the child and just move forward. This is rarely the case, particularly with our kids. Our kids require a team approach with a lot of " experts " (including parents) putting their heads together. I have gotten phone calls and emails from psychologists and others wondering what the best tests are for a kid with CHARGE. There is no answer to that, and in fact, for many of our kids, especially those like my son who are very impaired, tests are pretty irrelevant. On the other hand, some kids with CHARGE can be tested just fine on some standardized tests. and I have done that when school districts were wondering whether to take the child out of an academic track and put them in a purely vocational track. Most assessment in education is geared towards kids with learning disabilities or mild cognitive impairments. A school psychologist might go a couple of years testing kids before coming across a kid like ours, and so obviously their skills are going to be less well developed. But as I said before, they do have the knowledge in most cases and should be able to provide useful information - if there is a useful question being asked. Tim RE: Re: WIAT II , there are no tests designed for kids with dual sensory losses. Over the years your question has come up but because of the wild variations in the kids and the low numbers of kids to be using them, there is little incentive for the test companies to develop them. That is the short answer!! I think that there is more to this conversation that I might have missed because I was away so if there is more I would love to hear it!!! Testing our kids (your kids) is tricky but it can be done and there can be some good information gleaned. Personally, I NEVER report IQ scores and feel strongly that no one should--our kids don't meeet any of the testing criteria for figuring those things out. Using specific parts of tests (in the right way) can give us some useful information to then add to/enhance learning goals. pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Bonnie, It is the team is attempting to evaluate...I have asked consistently who and why they are doing the tests and asked for it in writing. The response is " because " and they have yet to put it in writing... I think it is sad that the team offers that excuse ...it is not one a child is allowed to give them. Currently the team is influx Classroom teacher : who has issue with students with special needs. Her current statement to in from of the class was " Honey, I am not a mind reader you need to tell me what you want " ... She admitted saying that during our latest PPT. This is one of many sarcastic statements made to in front of class..She sets the tone for the class .....she is impatient. She no longer wants notes only phone calls...nothing in writing.... Special Ed teacher: non certified long term sub...no experience working with students let alone ones who are dually sensory impaired School Psychologist: substitute /current psychologist out on maternity until end of year. This is not the team to do 's triennial.... The director has stated I am being stubborn and uncooperative. I am simply asking why we are doing testing not every done before for ... 3 years ago Jack Morse gave his last triennial. I asked they repeat those tests because we have a competent baseline. They have refused. The lawyer is now working on this.... has gone from a child a 7:45 am said " Come on Mom " " We're gonna be late " School starts at 8:30 to a child who asks now " Can't you teach me at home? " We shall see ... Ellen mom to 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Ellen, What is happening does not seem right. Stick to your guns (and attorney). Tim ________________________________ From: CHARGE [mailto:CHARGE ] On Behalf Of Ellen Steinbrick Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:03 AM To: CHARGE Subject: Re: WIAT II Bonnie, It is the team is attempting to evaluate...I have asked consistently who and why they are doing the tests and asked for it in writing. The response is " because " and they have yet to put it in writing... I think it is sad that the team offers that excuse ...it is not one a child is allowed to give them. Currently the team is influx Classroom teacher : who has issue with students with special needs. Her current statement to in from of the class was " Honey, I am not a mind reader you need to tell me what you want " ... She admitted saying that during our latest PPT. This is one of many sarcastic statements made to in front of class..She sets the tone for the class .....she is impatient. She no longer wants notes only phone calls...nothing in writing.... Special Ed teacher: non certified long term sub...no experience working with students let alone ones who are dually sensory impaired School Psychologist: substitute /current psychologist out on maternity until end of year. This is not the team to do 's triennial.... The director has stated I am being stubborn and uncooperative. I am simply asking why we are doing testing not every done before for ... 3 years ago Jack Morse gave his last triennial. I asked they repeat those tests because we have a competent baseline. They have refused. The lawyer is now working on this.... has gone from a child a 7:45 am said " Come on Mom " " We're gonna be late " School starts at 8:30 to a child who asks now " Can't you teach me at home? " We shall see ... Ellen mom to 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Ellen: I feel your pain - and 's! is much the same way now. She used to love going to school; couldn't wait to go; couldn't wait to do her homework. Now, when it is time to go to the dorm for the week, she asks why she can't stay at home.; can't I teach her? Since going to Perkins for the evaluation, all she will say is she wants to go to Perkins this Fall. She has begun to hate the Deaf School. She is constantly taunted by the other students, and the staff don't understand her. They have also not been following the IEP. UGH!! Our conference coordinator is following up with the IEP issues, but I am ready to file a formal complaint with the Indiana DOE. Rick is so frustrated with the whole thing, he has asked for a placement conference, even before we have the Perkins results. I hope we don't have to go the lawyer route (been there once this past 12 months with Ken), but it may come to that. Hang in there! Friends in CHARGE, Marilyn Ogan Mom of (14, CHARGE+, JRA) Mom of Ken (17, Aspergers) Wife of Rick oganm@... has gone from a child a 7:45 am said " Come on Mom " " We're gonna be late " School starts at 8:30 to a child who asks now " Can't you teach me at home? " We shall see ... Ellen mom to 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 I totally agree on testing issues but unfortunantly when it came to transition to adulthood and independent living for the MHMR community requires that IQ diagnosis. When first came to us and started school I insisted that he be challenged in the school enviorment. I made them appoach his teaching as lets see what he can do first. Though he was in a HOH class with mainstreaming he did the work that his peers did. He was never placed in a MR setting. We did have him repeat a couple of grades once due to burn out and once to keep him from being brought back to his home school. (We parents fought for a Senior High HOH program within the original school system.) He never had a failing grade all through school. He was mainstreamed into hearing classrooms until he chose to attend a School for Deaf at the age of 17. He attended 9th through 12th at Scranton School for the Deaf. While at the Deaf School he was on Honor Roll all 4 years. came out of the institution at the end of May and started school in Sept. In May he was not walking independently, was not eating by mouth, was still in diapers and was just starting to be taught sign. In those first 4 years his gains were incredible. Not only was he improving in physical strides but schoolastic strides. He was like a sponge. He repeated 4th grade literally because he reached a burned out point and just needed a rest. There were issues that became evident to us over the years that even though did really well academicly that his brian was like a switchboard with some circuit shorts. He could do class work in the structured setting and get it right on paper but he couldn't aply what he was learning outside the classroom. Also he had some major problems with impulse issues. Ex: While selling candy at the deaf school he was taken avantage of by kids asking for candy and would pay him later. Later never happened and we didn't find out about it until he came up lots of money short. He couldn't tell us which kids. Also he was at school all week living in the dorm. He had spending money and was buying and eating candy off himself that was literaly making him sick. He couldn't make the connection. While at Helen Keller we learned that he took almost all his budget money and bought games and toys. He couldn't get it as to why he had to return things we could return and why he had to pay money back to the program for things we couldn't return. Another thing was would hid a physical problem because he didn't like going to the doctors. Over the years I learned to be able to tell if he was not feeling well by how he acted because he would not tell you. Constipation could become a hospitaliztion because he would let it go on until he was in great pain. Another good ex: is one time he came home from Helen Keller for hoiday. There was a terrible smell coming from his room. He had packed damp cloths in his bag to come home and they had mildewed. We had this problem again at the school when I found wet cloths in his drawers. The dryer he used was broke. He followed his directions and put them in the dryer for 20 min. like he was suppose to so he folded the wet cloths and put them away. He got really angry with me for telling him he had to dry them again. When we went for help of MHMR services when graduated from Scranton we were refused services first time because his IQ score was 74. Their cut off was 70. We did eventually get services because of a 5 point varience for his sight and hearing loss combined with mild MR but I had to research that little bit of information. It didn't come from the MHMR agency. The MHMR agency required another IQ test and we had to fight for that testing to be done by someone who was qualified to test a person who was deaf. Unfortunantly, government agencies depend of IQ testing for availablity of services. I was very lucky in that I came across advocate groups who were very helpful in getting services. But if I hadn't been a in your face, pain in the a-- mother that I am may not have gotten waiver for community living. There are many out there who take the first no as an answer then struggle and worry about their adult children the rest of their lives. I literally will not deal with our county MHMR agency anymore but will go straight to the State department if we encounter problems. You have to not only understand the workings of the state MR system but be aware of Federal rules and regulations because there can be descrepencies in how your state interprets the Federal rules and regulations concerning waivers and eligibliity issues. Well, I could write a book about all my experiences dealing with the MHMR service system. I would suggest a gag for when we all meet in Ca. or hold my nose so I have to breath with my mouth. LOL mom to 31 > > Pam and I are in agreement here. I never want to do testing without knowing > what the questions are. Way too often people say they want testing done, > with no clear idea of the reasons. Most of the time IQ is pretty irrelevant > when it comes to our kids, although there are exceptions. I have no idea > why anyone would want to give one of our kids the WIAT. If I wanted to know > something about their educational achievement, I would be more interested in > a test that shows what skills they have learned and what the next skills > they need to learn are. The Brigance is pretty good for that, or you can > use one of the curriculum measurement strategies. What you use depends not > only on the questions you want to answer, but also the skills the child has > already developed. > > > > I think that way too often parents and teachers think that " testing " is > going to make the fog clear up and we will all understand the child and just > move forward. This is rarely the case, particularly with our kids. Our > kids require a team approach with a lot of " experts " (including parents) > putting their heads together. I have gotten phone calls and emails from > psychologists and others wondering what the best tests are for a kid with > CHARGE. There is no answer to that, and in fact, for many of our kids, > especially those like my son who are very impaired, tests are pretty > irrelevant. On the other hand, some kids with CHARGE can be tested just > fine on some standardized tests. and I have done that when school > districts were wondering whether to take the child out of an academic track > and put them in a purely vocational track. > > > > Most assessment in education is geared towards kids with learning > disabilities or mild cognitive impairments. A school psychologist might go > a couple of years testing kids before coming across a kid like ours, and so > obviously their skills are going to be less well developed. But as I said > before, they do have the knowledge in most cases and should be able to > provide useful information - if there is a useful question being asked. > > > > Tim > > > > RE: Re: WIAT II > > > > , > there are no tests designed for kids with dual sensory losses. Over the > years your question has come up but because of the wild variations in the > kids and the low numbers of kids to be using them, there is little incentive > for the test companies to develop them. That is the short answer!! > I think that there is more to this conversation that I might have missed > because I was away so if there is more I would love to hear it!!! > Testing our kids (your kids) is tricky but it can be done and there can be > some good information gleaned. Personally, I NEVER report IQ scores and feel > strongly that no one should--our kids don't meeet any of the testing > criteria for figuring those things out. Using specific parts of tests (in > the right way) can give us some useful information to then add to/enhance > learning goals. > pam > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Oh Ellen, Would you just stop following Patty's hard footsteps. You just don't have to go there. Do you have an advocate? I mean one that is understanding and not in it for the " fight " sort of thing. I am hoping and praying it will get better for . It has to. He is one smart fellow. He has such love for learning and love for life. Don't ever let anyone take that love away. Grab on to it, hold it close and continue to show him he is a great individual with much to give to this world. I'm telling you, I'd vote for him when he runs for public office one day! Bonnie, Mom to Kris 24, Patty CHARGE 22, and wife to Re: WIAT II Bonnie, It is the team is attempting to evaluate...I have asked consistently who and why they are doing the tests and asked for it in writing. The response is " because " and they have yet to put it in writing... I think it is sad that the team offers that excuse ...it is not one a child is allowed to give them. Currently the team is influx Classroom teacher : who has issue with students with special needs. Her current statement to in from of the class was " Honey, I am not a mind reader you need to tell me what you want " ... She admitted saying that during our latest PPT. This is one of many sarcastic statements made to in front of class..She sets the tone for the class .....she is impatient. She no longer wants notes only phone calls...nothing in writing.... Special Ed teacher: non certified long term sub...no experience working with students let alone ones who are dually sensory impaired School Psychologist: substitute /current psychologist out on maternity until end of year. This is not the team to do 's triennial.... The director has stated I am being stubborn and uncooperative. I am simply asking why we are doing testing not every done before for ... 3 years ago Jack Morse gave his last triennial. I asked they repeat those tests because we have a competent baseline. They have refused. The lawyer is now working on this.... has gone from a child a 7:45 am said " Come on Mom " " We're gonna be late " School starts at 8:30 to a child who asks now " Can't you teach me at home? " We shall see ... Ellen mom to 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 bonnie there r times when i think we r all following patty love u > > Oh Ellen, > > Would you just stop following Patty's hard footsteps. You just don't have > to go there. Do you have an advocate? I mean one that is understanding and > not in it for the " fight " sort of thing. I am hoping and praying it will get > better for . It has to. He is one smart fellow. He has such love for > learning and love for life. Don't ever let anyone take that love away. Grab > on to it, hold it close and continue to show him he is a great individual > with much to give to this world. > > I'm telling you, I'd vote for him when he runs for public office one day! > > Bonnie, Mom to Kris 24, Patty CHARGE 22, and wife to > > Re: WIAT II > > Bonnie, > It is the team is attempting to evaluate...I have asked consistently > who and why they are doing the tests and asked for it in writing. The > response is " because " and they have yet to put it in writing... I think it > is sad that the team offers that excuse ...it is not one a child is allowed > to give them. > > Currently the team is influx > > Classroom teacher : who has issue with students with special needs. Her > current statement to in from of the class was " Honey, I am not a mind > reader you need to tell me what you want " ... She admitted saying that during > our latest PPT. This is one of many sarcastic statements made to in > front of class..She sets the tone for the class .....she is impatient. She > no longer wants notes only phone calls...nothing in writing.... > Special Ed teacher: non certified long term sub...no experience working > with students let alone ones who are dually sensory impaired > School Psychologist: substitute /current psychologist out on maternity > until end of year. > > This is not the team to do 's triennial.... > The director has stated I am being stubborn and uncooperative. I am simply > asking why we are doing testing not every done before for ... 3 years > ago Jack Morse gave his last triennial. I asked they repeat those tests > because we have a competent baseline. They have refused. > > The lawyer is now working on this.... > has gone from a child a 7:45 am said " Come on Mom " " We're gonna be > late " School starts at 8:30 to a child who asks now " Can't you teach me at > home? " > > We shall see ... > Ellen mom to 9 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 Hi Tim, I always feel so much better when you comment!! Testing is a tricky thing with our kids and all of what you said is so important, especially regarding the " why?'' and identifying the useful question. Testing for testing sake is not helpful--finding baselines, exploring learning issues, measuring success are reasonable. I also wanted to concur with you that I, too, have times when I report I.Q. scores but for me, those kids are few and far between. For the most part, the I.Q. is not the necessary part. However, many school people will say it is, for agency stuff, for qualifications. I have found over lo these many years, if there is a question of qualifying for MR services (now formally referred to as Intellectual and Developmental disabilities) that a level of overall functioning is all that is really needed--a qualifying statement based on daily/life skills and abilities. I have been in " discussions " with such agencies DEMANDING an I.Q., which, for the most part, I won't do. I explain my position (kids are not part of the norming group, tests are accessible to them, dual sensory deficits, etcs) and give a functioning level (that the parents have knowledge of and have been part of the discussion) and if they want to assign an I.Q., well, I can't stop that, but it is not from me. I think I am about to hop on the soapbox and I have too much work to do, so I am stepping down! The whole point here was to thank and agree with Tim!!! pam RE: Re: WIAT II , there are no tests designed for kids with dual sensory losses. Over the years your question has come up but because of the wild variations in the kids and the low numbers of kids to be using them, there is little incentive for the test companies to develop them. That is the short answer!! I think that there is more to this conversation that I might have missed because I was away so if there is more I would love to hear it!!! Testing our kids (your kids) is tricky but it can be done and there can be some good information gleaned. Personally, I NEVER report IQ scores and feel strongly that no one should--our kids don't meeet any of the testing criteria for figuring those things out. Using specific parts of tests (in the right way) can give us some useful information to then add to/enhance learning goals. pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 Hi Tim, I always feel so much better when you comment!! Testing is a tricky thing with our kids and all of what you said is so important, especially regarding the " why?'' and identifying the useful question. Testing for testing sake is not helpful--finding baselines, exploring learning issues, measuring success are reasonable. I also wanted to concur with you that I, too, have times when I report I.Q. scores but for me, those kids are few and far between. For the most part, the I.Q. is not the necessary part. However, many school people will say it is, for agency stuff, for qualifications. I have found over lo these many years, if there is a question of qualifying for MR services (now formally referred to as Intellectual and Developmental disabilities) that a level of overall functioning is all that is really needed--a qualifying statement based on daily/life skills and abilities. I have been in " discussions " with such agencies DEMANDING an I.Q., which, for the most part, I won't do. I explain my position (kids are not part of the norming group, tests are accessible to them, dual sensory deficits, etcs) and give a functioning level (that the parents have knowledge of and have been part of the discussion) and if they want to assign an I.Q., well, I can't stop that, but it is not from me. I think I am about to hop on the soapbox and I have too much work to do, so I am stepping down! The whole point here was to thank and agree with Tim!!! pam RE: Re: WIAT II , there are no tests designed for kids with dual sensory losses. Over the years your question has come up but because of the wild variations in the kids and the low numbers of kids to be using them, there is little incentive for the test companies to develop them. That is the short answer!! I think that there is more to this conversation that I might have missed because I was away so if there is more I would love to hear it!!! Testing our kids (your kids) is tricky but it can be done and there can be some good information gleaned. Personally, I NEVER report IQ scores and feel strongly that no one should--our kids don't meeet any of the testing criteria for figuring those things out. Using specific parts of tests (in the right way) can give us some useful information to then add to/enhance learning goals. pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 Hi Tim, I always feel so much better when you comment!! Testing is a tricky thing with our kids and all of what you said is so important, especially regarding the " why?'' and identifying the useful question. Testing for testing sake is not helpful--finding baselines, exploring learning issues, measuring success are reasonable. I also wanted to concur with you that I, too, have times when I report I.Q. scores but for me, those kids are few and far between. For the most part, the I.Q. is not the necessary part. However, many school people will say it is, for agency stuff, for qualifications. I have found over lo these many years, if there is a question of qualifying for MR services (now formally referred to as Intellectual and Developmental disabilities) that a level of overall functioning is all that is really needed--a qualifying statement based on daily/life skills and abilities. I have been in " discussions " with such agencies DEMANDING an I.Q., which, for the most part, I won't do. I explain my position (kids are not part of the norming group, tests are accessible to them, dual sensory deficits, etcs) and give a functioning level (that the parents have knowledge of and have been part of the discussion) and if they want to assign an I.Q., well, I can't stop that, but it is not from me. I think I am about to hop on the soapbox and I have too much work to do, so I am stepping down! The whole point here was to thank and agree with Tim!!! pam RE: Re: WIAT II , there are no tests designed for kids with dual sensory losses. Over the years your question has come up but because of the wild variations in the kids and the low numbers of kids to be using them, there is little incentive for the test companies to develop them. That is the short answer!! I think that there is more to this conversation that I might have missed because I was away so if there is more I would love to hear it!!! Testing our kids (your kids) is tricky but it can be done and there can be some good information gleaned. Personally, I NEVER report IQ scores and feel strongly that no one should--our kids don't meeet any of the testing criteria for figuring those things out. Using specific parts of tests (in the right way) can give us some useful information to then add to/enhance learning goals. pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Hi Pam, needed an IQ test when he was an infant so that we could get a state subsidy. He was given the and got the lowest score, I believe it's either 28 or 29? I joke sometimes that I am so proud of his 29 points. We have used nonverbal IQ tests, the CTONI or UNIT, on some kids with CHARGE. But their vision still needs to be decent, and you still have to assume that they have experienced the same kind of life developmental events that the normative group has experienced. I would prefer some kind of teach-test-teach process, or dynamic assessment, but that requires some pretty well developed clinical skills that are hard to develop. It is so much more important to look at skills, and especially the swiss cheese effect. By that I mean the holes in a person's understanding. For example, one boy with CHARGE we assessed hated math and would get very frustrated and upset around math. We found that he did not know his multiplication facts at all. So we recommended a flash card system with a very high ratio of knowns to unknowns and at last report he was learning the facts and actually enjoying it. I believe the school was looking at the CHARGE kid and thinking he just could not do math. Yes - lot's of soap boxes out there! Tim ________________________________ From: CHARGE [mailto:CHARGE ] On Behalf Of pamela.ryan@... Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 10:25 AM To: CHARGE Subject: RE: Re: WIAT II Hi Tim, I always feel so much better when you comment!! Testing is a tricky thing with our kids and all of what you said is so important, especially regarding the " why?'' and identifying the useful question. Testing for testing sake is not helpful--finding baselines, exploring learning issues, measuring success are reasonable. I also wanted to concur with you that I, too, have times when I report I.Q. scores but for me, those kids are few and far between. For the most part, the I.Q. is not the necessary part. However, many school people will say it is, for agency stuff, for qualifications. I have found over lo these many years, if there is a question of qualifying for MR services (now formally referred to as Intellectual and Developmental disabilities) that a level of overall functioning is all that is really needed--a qualifying statement based on daily/life skills and abilities. I have been in " discussions " with such agencies DEMANDING an I.Q., which, for the most part, I won't do. I explain my position (kids are not part of the norming group, tests are accessible to them, dual sensory deficits, etcs) and give a functioning level (that the parents have knowledge of and have been part of the discussion) and if they want to assign an I.Q., well, I can't stop that, but it is not from me. I think I am about to hop on the soapbox and I have too much work to do, so I am stepping down! The whole point here was to thank and agree with Tim!!! pam RE: Re: WIAT II , there are no tests designed for kids with dual sensory losses. Over the years your question has come up but because of the wild variations in the kids and the low numbers of kids to be using them, there is little incentive for the test companies to develop them. That is the short answer!! I think that there is more to this conversation that I might have missed because I was away so if there is more I would love to hear it!!! Testing our kids (your kids) is tricky but it can be done and there can be some good information gleaned. Personally, I NEVER report IQ scores and feel strongly that no one should--our kids don't meeet any of the testing criteria for figuring those things out. Using specific parts of tests (in the right way) can give us some useful information to then add to/enhance learning goals. pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Tim, I chuckled about the " Swiss Cheese Effect " --that is a great phrase and so understandable!! pam RE: Re: WIAT II , there are no tests designed for kids with dual sensory losses. Over the years your question has come up but because of the wild variations in the kids and the low numbers of kids to be using them, there is little incentive for the test companies to develop them. That is the short answer!! I think that there is more to this conversation that I might have missed because I was away so if there is more I would love to hear it!!! Testing our kids (your kids) is tricky but it can be done and there can be some good information gleaned. Personally, I NEVER report IQ scores and feel strongly that no one should--our kids don't meeet any of the testing criteria for figuring those things out. Using specific parts of tests (in the right way) can give us some useful information to then add to/enhance learning goals. pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.