Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml Can you post YOUR lab's ranges with these? -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Absolutely! If you use adequate estrogen daily (enough to built a uterine lining ) and 20mg progesterone (P) for 10 to 14 days monthly, you will have a period. On Wiley Protocol, I had a full 5 day period each month which was a cleansing relief feeling. It was the high progesterone that made me feel AWFUL!! Now I know why. Getting past all this progesterone , I believe, blocked my estrogen and maybe my body converted cortisol to estrogen. Anyway, I believe my real serious adrenal problems stem from all this. Delores Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid > > > > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of it's > rangfe > > > wihtout being over. > > > > > > -- > > > Artistic Grooming- > Hurricane WV > > > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 >>Getting past all this progesterone , I believe, blocked my estrogen and maybe my body converted cortisol to estrogen. Anyway, I believe my real serious adrenal problems stem from all this.<< As progesterone can bind to cortiosl receptors but does not ACT liek cortisol it can create low cortisl symptoms by blocking your OWN cortisl form working properly. Yes over time, this could deifnitely be the cause of adrenal fatigue. -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 These ranges are: estradiol, serum 146 (range NG/ML -follicular phase 15 - 160, midcycle 34 - 400, treated postmenopausal 15-93) progesterone 17.3 (range post menopause .1 - .8 NG/ML) free testosterone .7 (range .03 - 1.55 NG/ML) Delores Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid > Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml > > Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml > > Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml > > Can you post YOUR lab's ranges with these? > > -- > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Sorry Val....should have known better...just noticed my lab's ranges are different:--- > > Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml (5.37-65.9) > > Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml (ND-1.0) > > Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml (ND-2.03) > >THESE ARE ALL POST MENOPAUSAL RANGES. Still low in everything dont' ya think? In post menopause, where do we want to be in our estrogen....top third? What about progest? Isn't it supposed to be like 10 times higher? THANKS VAL!!! > > -- > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 wOW....for me menstruation was never a 'cleansing releif;. It was pure torture and I knelt and thanked God at 42 yrs of age, for giving me a premature meno. Did I read somewhere that you can take the hormones all month to avoid this??? Val....are you getting periods as well? Sorry if I'm being too nosey....but is anyone taking HRT and NOT getting a period...I'd be thrilled to know! Naffy > > > > > > I'm 67. When I was about 64, my then Dr told me my estradiol > > could be up to > > > 200 (above most ranges I have seen). I still feel best when my E > > is around > > > 150. I'm still having a problem using progesterone (and I have a > > uterus) > > > because of storing so much P on the Wiley Protocol. When I try P > > for even 2 > > > or 3 days, it makes me VERY PMS feeling. My now Dr (very main > > stream > > > medicine) knows my history and tells me to just use E for now and > > he'll > > > monitor my uterus build up. I haven't had a period since last Oct > > so > > > decided to try P again. Yesterday was day 4 and I can't stand the > > way it > > > makes me feel so I'm giving up for now. I was just using Progest > > (20mg > > > daily). I'm using 8mg of E daily. > > > > > > Delores > > > > > > Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid > > > > > > > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of it's > > rangfe > > > > wihtout being over. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Artistic Grooming- > > Hurricane WV > > > > > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > > > > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 > I'm really happy for you! That is wonderful news! Dahlia > I trust him YES! I am actually excited ot see this one I have been > chatting online for several months with but I am not at liberty to give > out his name as he is a bit scrutinized as almost all good doctors are > and really wants only local patients or people that can come ot see him. > Of course I do not trust him enough to forget all I have learned, but > between us I think I can get better than I am. > > -- > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 but is anyone taking HRT and NOT getting a period...I'd be > thrilled to know! > > Naffy > I am taking bioidentical hormones, a mix of estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. I haven't had a period since Jan. of 2006. I am 56 years old. Beebe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I wonder what the difference between sublingual prog. and prog. cream? I know the cream is built up and stored in the fat cells. I've taken the sublingual form for 2 1/2 years. I also take testosterone cream. A while back it was way high(in saliva and blood), I guess too much cream or DHEA or Prog. Confused I was. Doctor flipped out and said, " since it's stored in the fat cells it could take 6 months to bring it down. " So, I completely stopped(testos. only) and had it re-checked in 4 WEEKS. Shocked, it was back down to almost nothing. Urg. I'm taking it again, just less. > > > > This is interesting as abotu 3-4 years ago I had very high > progesterone > > due to supplementation thta I was accidentally using too much. I > still > > get veyr bad fluid retentoin and depressed feeligns from > progesterone. > > Is it possible this over dose lasts this long? I will have ot be > asking > > some pointed questions when I see this doc in April. Thankfully I > do nto > > have a uterus so really do nto have to worry about that side > effect form > > not taking it. > > > > -- > > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane > WV > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Yes, you can take estrogen AND progesterone all month and avoid the period. I did it for 10 years, low dose estrogen (tri est cream .75mg estradiol, ..25 mg estrone and 1.25 mg estriol BID - twice daily) AND 200 - 300mg prometrium (natural progesterone made by a drug co) every day. What I didn't know then was that progesterone, even though it has a very short half life, can be stored in your body fat and can effect your immune system. As long as you DO NOT build up a uterine lining, you WILL NOT have a period. I found this method NOT GOOD!!!!!!!!!!! Delores Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid > > > > > > > > > > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of > it's > > > rangfe > > > > > wihtout being over. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Artistic Grooming- > > > Hurricane WV > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > > > > > > > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert > Bracelets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I had a HYST so no periods! LOL -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Well how will I know if I am building a uterine lining? This is all so confusing. I thought the adrenal/thyroid stuff was bad, but I doubt I will EVER get this one right! LOL But I REFUSE to go through menstruation again, NO WAY. Guess I'll just do the whole month method, and deal with the immune issues, if they come. Thanks! Naffy > > > > > > > > > > I'm 67. When I was about 64, my then Dr told me my estradiol > > > > could be up to > > > > > 200 (above most ranges I have seen). I still feel best when > > my E > > > > is around > > > > > 150. I'm still having a problem using progesterone (and I > > have a > > > > uterus) > > > > > because of storing so much P on the Wiley Protocol. When I > > try P > > > > for even 2 > > > > > or 3 days, it makes me VERY PMS feeling. My now Dr (very main > > > > stream > > > > > medicine) knows my history and tells me to just use E for now > > and > > > > he'll > > > > > monitor my uterus build up. I haven't had a period since last > > Oct > > > > so > > > > > decided to try P again. Yesterday was day 4 and I can't stand > > the > > > > way it > > > > > makes me feel so I'm giving up for now. I was just using > > Progest > > > > (20mg > > > > > daily). I'm using 8mg of E daily. > > > > > > > > > > Delores > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of > > it's > > > > rangfe > > > > > > wihtout being over. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Artistic Grooming- > > > > Hurricane WV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > > > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert > > Bracelets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Well how will I know if I am building a uterine lining? This is all so confusing. I thought the adrenal/thyroid stuff was bad, but I doubt I will EVER get this one right! LOL But I REFUSE to go through menstruation again, NO WAY. Guess I'll just do the whole month method, and deal with the immune issues, if they come. Thanks! Naffy > > > > > > > > > > I'm 67. When I was about 64, my then Dr told me my estradiol > > > > could be up to > > > > > 200 (above most ranges I have seen). I still feel best when > > my E > > > > is around > > > > > 150. I'm still having a problem using progesterone (and I > > have a > > > > uterus) > > > > > because of storing so much P on the Wiley Protocol. When I > > try P > > > > for even 2 > > > > > or 3 days, it makes me VERY PMS feeling. My now Dr (very main > > > > stream > > > > > medicine) knows my history and tells me to just use E for now > > and > > > > he'll > > > > > monitor my uterus build up. I haven't had a period since last > > Oct > > > > so > > > > > decided to try P again. Yesterday was day 4 and I can't stand > > the > > > > way it > > > > > makes me feel so I'm giving up for now. I was just using > > Progest > > > > (20mg > > > > > daily). I'm using 8mg of E daily. > > > > > > > > > > Delores > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of > > it's > > > > rangfe > > > > > > wihtout being over. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Artistic Grooming- > > > > Hurricane WV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > > > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert > > Bracelets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Stop bragging Val!!! LOL Ok....am officially envious. nAFFY > > I had a HYST so no periods! LOL > > -- > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I insist on a pelvic ultrasound annually. That will show if you have too much build up in your uterine lining and also show any ovarian cysts, etc. Delores Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of > > > it's > > > > > rangfe > > > > > > > wihtout being over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Artistic Grooming- > > > > > Hurricane WV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > > > > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert > > > Bracelets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I was using Progest cream 20mg. I believe 20mg is all Dr Formby said was necessary. It certainly worked for me to have a period last Oct (just 10 days on Progest 20mg) and I had a 5 day period with no cramps. Delores Re: Re: Overwhelmed-afraid > > > > > > > > > > > > > From what I am reading estrogen should be near the top of it's > > > rangfe > > > > > wihtout being over. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Artistic Grooming- > > > Hurricane WV > > > > > > > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > > > > > > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > > > > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 > > but is anyone taking HRT and NOT getting a period...I'd be > > thrilled to know! > > > > Naffy > > > > I am taking bioidentical hormones, a mix of estrogen, progesterone and > testosterone. I haven't had a period since Jan. of 2006. I am 56 > years old. > > Beebe > Hi I am 60 next Tuesday and been using one pump Esttrogel daily since 2001 when I had my last period. I have never bleed once in that time even after 10days of 100mg Cyclogest which causes me massive migraines and blocks my Pred twice yearly. In the end I could end up murdering my husband so last time I could only manage 9 days. I believe that if you only use low dose Estrogen as per Larrian Gillespie you do not stimulate the lining then there is nothing to loose, at least that has been my experience. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Thanks Delores, I think that I will give the cream a try. Gale > > I was using Progest cream 20mg. I believe 20mg is all Dr Formby said was > necessary. It certainly worked for me to have a period last Oct (just 10 > days on Progest 20mg) and I had a 5 day period with no cramps. > > Delores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Thanks Beebe, I'm assuming you don't take breaks from it...just take it every day month after month? Naffy > > > > but is anyone taking HRT and NOT getting a period...I'd be > > > thrilled to know! > > > > > > Naffy > > > > > > > I am taking bioidentical hormones, a mix of estrogen, progesterone > and > > testosterone. I haven't had a period since Jan. of 2006. I am 56 > > years old. > > > > Beebe > > > Hi > > I am 60 next Tuesday and been using one pump Esttrogel daily since > 2001 when I had my last period. I have never bleed once in that time > even after 10days of 100mg Cyclogest which causes me massive > migraines and blocks my Pred twice yearly. In the end I could end up > murdering my husband so last time I could only manage 9 days. > > I believe that if you only use low dose Estrogen as per Larrian > Gillespie you do not stimulate the lining then there is nothing to > loose, at least that has been my experience. > > Pam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Bump. I think this got lost in this morning's shuffle, > > Sorry Val....should have known better...just noticed my lab's ranges > are different:--- > > > > Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml (5.37-65.9) > > > > Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml (ND-1.0) > > > > Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml (ND-2.03) > > > >THESE ARE ALL POST MENOPAUSAL RANGES. > > Still low in everything dont' ya think? In post menopause, where do > we want to be in our estrogen....top third? What about progest? > Isn't it supposed to be like 10 times higher? > > THANKS VAL!!! > > > > -- > > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane > WV > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > > http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml (5.37-65.9) OUCH LOW!!! > > > > Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml (ND-1.0) little low > > > > Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml (ND-2.03) OUCH Low -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Yes, I know...they are very low. But my question is what are we aiming for here..postmenopausal. Are we shooting for top of range in all three....middle range? I have no idea. Thanks Naffy > > Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml (5.37-65.9) OUCH LOW!!! > > > > > > Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml (ND-1.0) little low > > > > > > Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml (ND-2.03) OUCH Low > > -- > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I would shoot for close to top of range. Menopausal ranges are alreaydy lowered. SO we sure do nto want them any lower than that. If your lab gives a range for HRT poet Meno more the better as it is usually higher. -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Ok....will test on Sat. and then depending on the results, start up on estrogen/progesterone and testosterone. Can't beleive I'm starting this 13 years into menopause, but guess better late than never. Wondering how long it will take to get those labs higher....mine are really in the dirt! Thanks Val, naffy > > I would shoot for close to top of range. Menopausal ranges are alreaydy > lowered. SO we sure do nto want them any lower than that. If your lab > gives a range for HRT poet Meno more the better as it is usually higher. > > -- > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 You know, I prefer to go by " the listening to my body theory " . I DO NOT want my sex hormones (especially estrogen and progesterone) to be stuck in " post menopausal range " if I feel yukkie. My estrogen gives me energy and makes me happy and makes be feel sexy even at 67. It makes me feel good about myself. When my estrogen drops below 100, I FEEL IT. Feel old, drag around. I think you have to listen to your body and we are all different. Dr Uzzi Reiss in " Natural Hormone Balance for Women " (a step by step guide for hormone replacement for all ages) is big about learning to hear what your body symptoms are saying. Some hormone symptoms may be more subtle than others but estrogen is the steriod queen - she rules. Dr Bent Formby says there is no good science to support the assertion that estrogen is a carcinogen. It , according to him, promotes cell differentiation. Dr Formby holds PHDs in biochemistry, biophysics, and molecular biology from University of Copenhagen and is currently conducting cancer research in CA. One other thing, who has the most cancer and other disease? I think older people with hormones all out of balance ---- not younger people with surging hormones pretty much in balance. That attracted me to Wiley Protocol but Dr Formby disassociated himself from that because of the ultra high amounts of both hormones. I'm on 8mg estradiol once daily and still detoxing from too much progesterone (from Wiley Protocol). Last Aug I even convinced by OB/GYN Dr (who is associate professor at Mercer Medical School here) to give me the 8mg estradiol cream BID for a year to help me get rid of the excess progesterone. He is the same Dr who did not feel comfortable increasing my 1mg daily estradiol 6 months prior to that. All the pub med studies and writings of Dr Formby which I took to him changed his mind. He said he remembered when he first started his practice, it was common to prescribe 5 or 6 mg estrogen to post menopausal women then we know drug companies and FDA got overly involved ----- Oh Well!! So, my theory is that I am aiming for the range that makes my body happy!!!!!!! I use the blood work as a guide. My photo is posted on the site and I think I look happy and extra good for my age! Even with healing adrenals, I still feel good about myself and have " estrogen " energy! Hope this helps someone. Delores Re: Overwhelmed-afraid > Yes, I know...they are very low. But my question is what are we > aiming for here..postmenopausal. Are we shooting for top of range > in all three....middle range? I have no idea. > > Thanks > > Naffy > > > > > > Estradiol 8.717 pg/ml (5.37-65.9) OUCH LOW!!! > > > > > > > > Progesterone 0.414 ng/ml (ND-1.0) little low > > > > > > > > Free Testosterone 0.85 pg/ml (ND-2.03) OUCH Low > > > > -- > > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane > WV > > > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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