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Beth,

Welcome to the listserv! Our daughter Kennedy walked holding our hand only

for a LONG time - probably about 7-8 months. She gradually went from

needing to hold both hands, to one hand, before taking off on her own. She

was three when she walked independently. She has no semi-circular canals

either. She used a pony walker to help with her confidence as well. I know

some of the other kids have also used a K-walker with some success. The one

good thing about Kennedy is that she has a healthy fear so she is very

cautious and looks for handrails, etc when she needed them. She still looks

for rails on stairs; it's been an evolving awareness for her about slowing

down when she switches terrains or is on a new surface. I'm sure is a

smart cookie and will learn how to compensate for his lack of balance, these

guys seem really adept at coping successfully in spite of seemingly

impossible odds at times!

Cheers,

Mom to Kennedy (9)

www.chargesyndrome.info

>

> Hi, I'm new to the site and had a question about how your children

> have done in terms of learning to walk safely. Our son, , was born

> with CHARGE in January 2005 and started taking steps just before

> Christmas last year (right before he was two). His vestibular system

> is all but gone, but he must have some in order to be able to balance

> at all. He is getting steadier, but still falls often indoors and

> outdoors he can't walk alone (which is pretty frustrating to a two

> year old who wants to be independent). A weighted backpack or weighted

> t-shirt helps him some, but I am just curious what you all have

> experienced in terms of your children with CHARGE learning to walk

> SAFELY. I've learned there's a big difference between walking and

> walking safely! I understand most children with CHARGE have problems

> with their vestibular system, but have not been able to find anyone

> who can really tell us what to expect. Our doctors and therapists are

> optimistic that he'll improve, but I'm sure you all have better

> experience. Thanks for any info you have to share!

>

> Beth

>

>

>

--

" It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in

delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. " --Carl Sagan

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My son walked independently a few weeks after he got some intensive

cranio-sacral therapy. You can find a practitioner through the Upledger

Institute's web-site @ http://www.upledger.com Can't guarantee it will work for

your son but it is worth a try.

a mom to 9yr CHARGEr and Quintin 6yr seizure prone

prichardbeth bethprichard@...> wrote:

Hi, I'm new to the site and had a question about how your children

have done in terms of learning to walk safely. Our son, , was born

with CHARGE in January 2005 and started taking steps just before

Christmas last year (right before he was two). His vestibular system

is all but gone, but he must have some in order to be able to balance

at all. He is getting steadier, but still falls often indoors and

outdoors he can't walk alone (which is pretty frustrating to a two

year old who wants to be independent). A weighted backpack or weighted

t-shirt helps him some, but I am just curious what you all have

experienced in terms of your children with CHARGE learning to walk

SAFELY. I've learned there's a big difference between walking and

walking safely! I understand most children with CHARGE have problems

with their vestibular system, but have not been able to find anyone

who can really tell us what to expect. Our doctors and therapists are

optimistic that he'll improve, but I'm sure you all have better

experience. Thanks for any info you have to share!

Beth

---------------------------------

Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

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Beth,

Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure there

is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't tolerate

a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids and later

cochlear implant.

We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there was

no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy considering she

was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold on the pole with one

hand and I think it actually helped her balance. Exercises to improve their

protective reflex is also important and your PT should be able to suggest some.

MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver independantly outside until she was

around 6. In unfamiliar places she will still take my hand. Her accidents have

become less frequent, but last summer she was running, simply fell on her face

with no saving reflex and broke her nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth

guard. While riding her bike, with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her

front teeth out. I guess I was only thinking about protecting her head and not

her face.

Good luck.

Jeanie

mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

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hello everybody,

you all sound like almost similar what I had when I was little like swallowing

problem, balance problem, breathing problem and etc. I thought I would share

with you to add at conference if you are be there.

share a thought,

Michele s.

Re: Vestibular System Question

Beth,

Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't tolerate

a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids and later

cochlear implant.

We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there was

no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy considering she

was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold on the pole with one

hand and I think it actually helped her balance. Exercises to improve their

protective reflex is also important and your PT should be able to suggest some.

MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver independantly outside until she was

around 6. In unfamiliar places she will still take my hand. Her accidents have

become less frequent, but last summer she was running, simply fell on her face

with no saving reflex and broke her nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth

guard. While riding her bike, with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her

front teeth out. I guess I was only thinking about protecting her head and not

her face.

Good luck.

Jeanie

mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

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Looking forward to hearing all about it Michele...

Lis

>

> hello everybody,

>

> you all sound like almost similar what I had when I was little like

> swallowing problem, balance problem, breathing problem and etc. I thought I

> would share with you to add at conference if you are be there.

>

> share a thought,

> Michele s.

> Re: Vestibular System Question

>

> Beth,

> Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

> there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

> independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

> stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't

> tolerate a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids

> and later cochlear implant.

>

> We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there

> was no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy

> considering she was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold

> on the pole with one hand and I think it actually helped her balance.

> Exercises to improve their protective reflex is also important and your PT

> should be able to suggest some. MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver

> independantly outside until she was around 6. In unfamiliar places she will

> still take my hand. Her accidents have become less frequent, but last summer

> she was running, simply fell on her face with no saving reflex and broke her

> nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth guard. While riding her bike,

> with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her front teeth out. I guess I

> was only thinking about protecting her head and not her face.

>

> Good luck.

> Jeanie

> mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

>

>

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hey im a charger i still cant walk very great at 21 i walk but to go longer

distances i need eather a chair or to hold onto soemone hugs ellen in aus

>

> Looking forward to hearing all about it Michele...

> Lis

>

> On 6/15/07, michele sinopoli

sinopoli74@...>

> wrote:

> >

> > hello everybody,

> >

> > you all sound like almost similar what I had when I was little like

> > swallowing problem, balance problem, breathing problem and etc. I

> thought I

> > would share with you to add at conference if you are be there.

> >

> > share a thought,

> > Michele s.

> > Re: Vestibular System Question

> >

> > Beth,

> > Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not

> sure

> > there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie

> walked

> > independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black

> eyes,

> > stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't

> > tolerate a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing

> aids

> > and later cochlear implant.

> >

> > We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure

> there

> > was no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy

> > considering she was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would

> hold

> > on the pole with one hand and I think it actually helped her balance.

> > Exercises to improve their protective reflex is also important and your

> PT

> > should be able to suggest some. MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver

> > independantly outside until she was around 6. In unfamiliar places she

> will

> > still take my hand. Her accidents have become less frequent, but last

> summer

> > she was running, simply fell on her face with no saving reflex and broke

> her

> > nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth guard. While riding her

> bike,

> > with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her front teeth out. I

> guess I

> > was only thinking about protecting her head and not her face.

> >

> > Good luck.

> > Jeanie

> > mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

> >

> >

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Oh, wow! That would be amazing to hear. I won't be at the conference this year,

but it's really kind of you to explain what it was like for you to everyone

there. If you don't mind me asking, how is your swallowing, balance and

breathing now? Have you seen a lot of improvement?

And thanks to eveyone who responded to my question. It gave me some great input

on what to expect. I have a feeling I'll be asking many more questions of you

all in the future and am grateful for this forum to learn more and get help from

people who understand. I have often had days when I think no one could possibly

understand our struggles, but clearly you all do.

Re: Vestibular System Question

Beth,

Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't tolerate

a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids and later

cochlear implant.

We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there was

no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy considering she

was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold on the pole with one

hand and I think it actually helped her balance. Exercises to improve their

protective reflex is also important and your PT should be able to suggest some.

MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver independantly outside until she was

around 6. In unfamiliar places she will still take my hand. Her accidents have

become less frequent, but last summer she was running, simply fell on her face

with no saving reflex and broke her nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth

guard. While riding her bike, with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her

front teeth out. I guess I was only thinking about protecting her head and not

her face.

Good luck.

Jeanie

mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

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Would you all (or ya'll as we say in the south!) permit me one follow up

question on this?

What have you guys seen with your children (or yourselves for your chargers) in

terms of long term mobility? Are you able to play sports, swim, drive, etc.?

Thanks again to everyone for their input!

Re: Vestibular System Question

Beth,

Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't tolerate

a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids and later

cochlear implant.

We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there was

no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy considering she

was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold on the pole with one

hand and I think it actually helped her balance. Exercises to improve their

protective reflex is also important and your PT should be able to suggest some.

MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver independantly outside until she was

around 6. In unfamiliar places she will still take my hand. Her accidents have

become less frequent, but last summer she was running, simply fell on her face

with no saving reflex and broke her nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth

guard. While riding her bike, with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her

front teeth out. I guess I was only thinking about protecting her head and not

her face.

Good luck.

Jeanie

mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

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i can swim with asistance and stuff

>

> Would you all (or ya'll as we say in the south!) permit me one follow up

> question on this?

>

> What have you guys seen with your children (or yourselves for your

> chargers) in terms of long term mobility? Are you able to play sports, swim,

> drive, etc.?

>

> Thanks again to everyone for their input!

>

> Re: Vestibular System Question

>

> Beth,

> Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

> there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

> independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

> stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't

> tolerate a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids

> and later cochlear implant.

>

> We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there

> was no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy

> considering she was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold

> on the pole with one hand and I think it actually helped her balance.

> Exercises to improve their protective reflex is also important and your PT

> should be able to suggest some. MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver

> independantly outside until she was around 6. In unfamiliar places she will

> still take my hand. Her accidents have become less frequent, but last summer

> she was running, simply fell on her face with no saving reflex and broke her

> nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth guard. While riding her bike,

> with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her front teeth out. I guess I

> was only thinking about protecting her head and not her face.

>

> Good luck.

> Jeanie

> mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

>

>

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That's great to hear! Thanks for the input, Ellen.

Re: Vestibular System Question

>

> Beth,

> Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

> there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

> independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

> stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't

> tolerate a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids

> and later cochlear implant.

>

> We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there

> was no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy

> considering she was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold

> on the pole with one hand and I think it actually helped her balance.

> Exercises to improve their protective reflex is also important and your PT

> should be able to suggest some. MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver

> independantly outside until she was around 6. In unfamiliar places she will

> still take my hand. Her accidents have become less frequent, but last summer

> she was running, simply fell on her face with no saving reflex and broke her

> nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth guard. While riding her bike,

> with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her front teeth out. I guess I

> was only thinking about protecting her head and not her face.

>

> Good luck.

> Jeanie

> mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

>

>

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That's great to hear! Thanks for the input, Ellen.

Re: Vestibular System Question

>

> Beth,

> Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

> there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

> independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

> stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't

> tolerate a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids

> and later cochlear implant.

>

> We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there

> was no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy

> considering she was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold

> on the pole with one hand and I think it actually helped her balance.

> Exercises to improve their protective reflex is also important and your PT

> should be able to suggest some. MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver

> independantly outside until she was around 6. In unfamiliar places she will

> still take my hand. Her accidents have become less frequent, but last summer

> she was running, simply fell on her face with no saving reflex and broke her

> nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth guard. While riding her bike,

> with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her front teeth out. I guess I

> was only thinking about protecting her head and not her face.

>

> Good luck.

> Jeanie

> mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

>

>

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Hi Beth,

I think your question got lost in all the graduation video

excitement. I'm the genetic counselor with the CHARGE Syndrome

Foundation. I think mobility is just as variable as everything else

with CHARGE. I am constantly amazed at what these folks can do, given

the lack of vestibular input. I know people with CHARGE who swim

(VERY poopulare with lots of the kids - the pool was full in Miami in

2005), drive (gotta have good vision!), play sports (recreational,

not on a competitive level, usually), dance (yes, ballet, in high

school, with a regular dance company).

I think nearly all eventually walk, even those with very significant

involvement. I suspect most always have some difficulty in some

situations, like uneven ground or unfamiliar territory. But most are

very mobile!

Meg

Meg Hefner

Genetic Counselor, St. Louis MO

>

> Would you all (or ya'll as we say in the south!) permit me one

follow up question on this?

>

> What have you guys seen with your children (or yourselves for your

chargers) in terms of long term mobility? Are you able to play sports,

swim, drive, etc.?

>

> Thanks again to everyone for their input!

>

>

> Re: Vestibular System Question

>

>

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I noticed that it took me until I was 4 to learn how to walk. I used a walker,

then I used a string to hold on while I walk. I can walk perfectly fine. There

are a few tiny details though. If I walk down the stairs, I slowly descend while

holding onto the rail. I go a lttle faster going up. When I walk on a rocking

surface, I can't walk that well without falling. That is why it isn't a good

idea to make me sway while walking. I noticed that I would occasionally lose

balance all of a sudden. Nothing too bad though. I was able to play sports, but

I stopped because I am not much of a sports person.

Well, talk to you later

Re: Vestibular System Question

Beth,

Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't tolerate

a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids and later

cochlear implant.

We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there was

no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy considering she

was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold on the pole with one

hand and I think it actually helped her balance. Exercises to improve their

protective reflex is also important and your PT should be able to suggest some.

MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver independantly outside until she was

around 6. In unfamiliar places she will still take my hand. Her accidents have

become less frequent, but last summer she was running, simply fell on her face

with no saving reflex and broke her nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth

guard. While riding her bike, with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her

front teeth out. I guess I was only thinking about protecting her head and not

her face.

Good luck.

Jeanie

mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

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That's really encouraging, . Thanks so much for sharing with me.

Re: Vestibular System Question

Beth,

Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't tolerate

a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids and later

cochlear implant.

We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there was

no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy considering she

was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold on the pole with one

hand and I think it actually helped her balance. Exercises to improve their

protective reflex is also important and your PT should be able to suggest some.

MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver independantly outside until she was

around 6. In unfamiliar places she will still take my hand. Her accidents have

become less frequent, but last summer she was running, simply fell on her face

with no saving reflex and broke her nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth

guard. While riding her bike, with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her

front teeth out. I guess I was only thinking about protecting her head and not

her face.

Good luck.

Jeanie

mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest guest

Hello Beth, sorry I didn't reply sooner. my breathing, swallowing and balancing

are about the same since I was a child it not getting worse it little better.

now i'm older and i have a little trouble swallowing sometime like airway stuck

so i has to clear it out, breathing and balancing are fine. i have very good

health. i think most CHARGERS are varies different. It is going to be my first

time be in conferece to meet people who are they like. oh well i won't meet you

at conference and it would be nice we could talk more about it hopefully next

time. I'm curious where are you planning to in July?

Michele s.

Re: Vestibular System Question

Beth,

Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't tolerate

a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids and later

cochlear implant.

We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there was

no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy considering she

was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold on the pole with one

hand and I think it actually helped her balance. Exercises to improve their

protective reflex is also important and your PT should be able to suggest some.

MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver independantly outside until she was

around 6. In unfamiliar places she will still take my hand. Her accidents have

become less frequent, but last summer she was running, simply fell on her face

with no saving reflex and broke her nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth

guard. While riding her bike, with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her

front teeth out. I guess I was only thinking about protecting her head and not

her face.

Good luck.

Jeanie

mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

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Hi Beth,

sure they can play sports or swim or activities. I'm not very into any sport but

I did play soccer few time and also i did take swim lesson when i was young. if

somebody already told you that then i must be miss out reading the posts lol

michele s.

Re: Vestibular System Question

Beth,

Your son sounds like my daughter, MacKenzie, at the same age. I'm not sure

there is a really fool proof way to encourage his walking. MacKenzie walked

independantly by the time she was 2, but she experienced many black eyes,

stitches, hematomas and even several broken noses. She simply wouldn't tolerate

a helmet and it kind of got in the way of her glasses, hearing aids and later

cochlear implant.

We modified the environment as much as possible. such as making sure there was

no sharp corners or things for her to trip on. This wasn't easy considering she

was hooked up to an IV pole 20 hours a day. She would hold on the pole with one

hand and I think it actually helped her balance. Exercises to improve their

protective reflex is also important and your PT should be able to suggest some.

MacKenzie wasn't really able to manuver independantly outside until she was

around 6. In unfamiliar places she will still take my hand. Her accidents have

become less frequent, but last summer she was running, simply fell on her face

with no saving reflex and broke her nose. One more thing to consider is a mouth

guard. While riding her bike, with a standard helmet, she fell and knocked her

front teeth out. I guess I was only thinking about protecting her head and not

her face.

Good luck.

Jeanie

mom to MacKenzie 9 CHARGE

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Beth-

I never did answer this either. Aubrie has some balance issues as evidenced

by observing her, but I don't recall any MRI finding of missing or malformed

semicircular canals. Could be that they are there and fine or could be that

the one MRI we did did not look at them.

Anyway - she runs, jumps, climbs, skips, dances, does karate. she can pretty

much do anything although most things are " different " . She runs slower and

more awkwardly than her peers. She must climb more carefully and has less

strength than her peers. She thinks she can skip, and maybe it is

technically a skip, but it's really not a graceful sight. She has

difficulty riding a bike even with training wheels - partly due to balance

and party due to leg strength. She can't really swim well, but I know many

other CHARGErs can - I think it's a problem for her because she doesn't

always like water. She wants to like it, but it's just a weird sensory

thing for her. Hard to describe.

I don't think anyone can predict what your child will be able to do. Some

CHARGErs are very mobile and active while others are not. I don't think

there is a formula for distinguishing who is and who isn't. There are too

many factors at play so each child's particular situation is very complex

and individual.

But - the possibilities are endless.

Michele W

Aubrie's mom 9 yrs

_____

From: CHARGE [mailto:CHARGE ] On Behalf Of

michele sinopoli

Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:36 PM

To: CHARGE

Subject: Re: Vestibular System Question

Hi Beth,

sure they can play sports or swim or activities. I'm not very into any sport

but I did play soccer few time and also i did take swim lesson when i was

young. if somebody already told you that then i must be miss out reading the

posts lol michele s.

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I noticed that I run about the same as my peers, and the same goes for walking.

I think I am faster in some cases. I noticed that going down the stairs, I move

very slowly. If there are stairs at the CHARGE Conference, you get to see it.

Oh, a little off topic. A friend told me there is a dance at the CHARGE

Conference, at the end. Is that true? I don't doubt my friend, but sometimes

people get the wrong info. I want to make sure.

Talk to you all later

Re: Vestibular System Question

Hi Beth,

sure they can play sports or swim or activities. I'm not very into any sport

but I did play soccer few time and also i did take swim lesson when i was

young. if somebody already told you that then i must be miss out reading the

posts lol michele s.

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