What your Antidepressant is doing to your Thyroid

[Guest guest]

Oh my goodness, it all ties in! The way these drugs suck out all the

adrenal glands too which would increase the cortisol thus making

someone for a short time feel slightly better because they will be

utilizing the T3 better in the cells from the increased output but

then as here explains

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/pinealstory.htm how they work by

increasing the output of the adrenals until exhaustion!

Here is an extract from …

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-08-Prozac-Paxil-Fluorophenyl.htm

…..Prozac is a fluorinated drug called " fluoxetine " .

Paxil is a fluorinated drug called " paroxetine " (also called

Seroxat, Aropax). These drugs are designed to inhibit the reuptake of

serotonin (serotonin reuptake inhibitors - SSRIs) and hence interfere

with the biological actions of serotonin, a neurotransmitter.

Both drugs contain fluorine and chloride. Fluoride is present as a

'4-fluorophenyl' compound, part of the 'active' ingredient.

Observations

In depressed patients receiving paroxetine the T4 level was reduced

by 11. 2% (Konig et al, 2000).

In animals chronic administration of fluoxetine results in a

decrease in both T4 and T3 levels. The authors reported that the major

effect of the drug " seems to be stimulation of TSH synthesis and

release via the inhibition of T4-mediated thyroid-pituitary feedback "

(Golstein et al, 1983).

In rat brain, fluoxetine has also been shown to interfere with

local T3 metabolism (Eravci et al, 2000; Baumgartner et al, 1994).

Liver

In the 1930s is was first observed that all fluoride compounds,

organic and inorganic ones, inhibit thyroid hormones. This was first

established in the 1930s by experiments conducted by Prof. Kurt Kraft

who exposed tadpoles (bufo vulgaris, rana temporaria) to fluoride

compounds including sodium fluoride, fluorotyrosine and fluorobenzoic

acid (Kraft, 1937). Numerous fluoride compounds were used subsequently

as the first line of treatment for hyperthyroidism in various

countries, for several decades.

1940s experiments on animals were conducted by Euler et al. which

showed that all fluoride compounds acted upon liver glycogen, the

difference being a matter of amplitude (Euler et al, 1949). Some

organic compounds caused identical effects in bone and teeth as

inorganic fluorides (Euler et al, 1942).

In 1996, Christensen et al. tested the experimental herbicide FOE

5043 (4-fluorophenyl-containing) specifically on thyroid hormone

function in the liver, after earlier tests had suggested that the

observed reduced circulating serum T4 levels were due to

extrathyroidal activity.

" In the liver, the actvity of hepatitic uridine glucoronosyl

transferase, a major pathway of thyroid hormone biotransformation in

the rat, increased in a statistically significant and dose-dependent

manner, conversely hepatitic 5-monodeiodinase [D1] trended downward

with dose. Bile flow and bilary excretion of T4 were increased. These

data suggests that the functional status of the thyroid and pituitary

glands has not been altered by treatment with FOE 5043 and that

reductions in circulating levels of T4 are being mediated indirectly

through an increase in the biotransformation and excretion of thyroid

hormone in the liver. "

Urichuk et al (1997)

luv Dawn x

[Guest guest]

I'm a little worried about the fact that Florinef is a fluoride compound, isn't

it?

Dahlia

>>In the 1930s is was first observed that all fluoride compounds,

organic and inorganic ones, inhibit thyroid hormones. >>

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Dawn,

Thanks for two extremely interesting and valuable posts. I took those

meds for at least 15 years, nobody ever told me they could interfere

with normal thyroid function, or adrenal function. I took myself off

them against doctor's advice I may add, about 5 years ago.

sol

[Guest guest]

But all this beats having your adrenals go to Hell from lack of sleep and having

no social life, and not being able to work, and having parents mad at you and

no longer feeling any love for you because of of depression caused psychotic

rages!

My friend Tommy is in jail right now because he refused medication for his

depression. He had a violent outburst and attacked and almost killed a 14 year

old boy. The kid was just being a typical 14 year old.

And he was already taking nutritonal suppliments including St ns wort. It

was not enough.

Hensley <>< 8-)

Dawn said

Oh my goodness, it all ties in! The way these drugs suck out all the

adrenal glands too which would increase the cortisol thus making

someone for a short time feel slightly better because they will be

utilizing the T3 better in the cells from the increased output b

[Guest guest]

>>My friend Tommy is in jail right now because he refused medication for his

depression. He had a violent outburst and attacked and almost killed a 14 year

old boy. The kid was just being a typical 14 year old.

And he was already taking nutritonal suppliments including St ns wort. It

was not enough.<<

But Liz, perhaps all he needed was hormone balancing not herbals but HORMONES.

And until the hormones are right you will spend a lifetime on AD's and not get

WELL which is really the goal.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

[Guest guest]

This is what I found on Florinef..according to this site it has

fluoride in it, your right that you'd want to avoid that. I don't find

it a coincidence that my dd whose thyroid is slow..also has serious

fluorosis of her teeth. She was getting fluoride treatments from the

dentist beginning at age 3, and had fluoride supplements as a

toddler...how insane! I wish I had known better then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorine

anyone concerned about Fluoride I would look at this write up..it's

hidden in many pharmaceuticals..

>

> I'm a little worried about the fact that Florinef is a fluoride

compound, isn't it?

> Dahlia

>

> >>In the 1930s is was first observed that all fluoride compounds,

> organic and inorganic ones, inhibit thyroid hormones. >>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

>

>

[Guest guest]

i was taking extra salt but this kidney insufficiency problem came up. now i

have to decrease salt intake. don't wish to take florinef too.. so don't know

what i will do.

bw

Re:What your Antidepressant is doing to your Thyroid

This is what I found on Florinef..according to this site it has

fluoride in it, your right that you'd want to avoid that. I don't find

it a coincidence that my dd whose thyroid is slow..also has serious

fluorosis of her teeth. She was getting fluoride treatments from the

[Guest guest]

My Surmontil stops these kinds of thoughts and behavior.

My friend in the hoosegow who is there for attacking a 14 year old, just called

the house. He is going to be behind bars another 14 months.

And he was only on St. 's Wort which is a natural herb that can treat mild

to moderate depression. But what Tommy and I have is severe. My presciption

medication works for me but the Saint 's Wort was not strong enough to help

Tommy, so he was out of his mind when he attacked that 14 year old.

Failing to get medical help for a physical brain disorder can cost you and

society big time. If my friend's and Sam had not been there to pull Tommy

off this kid he WOULD have choked him to death.

No Prozac because it contains fluoride may not be the best AD for someone with

thyroid problems. But, they don't all do that. So don't group them all in with

Prozac like you did and say they are all are bad for you. All drugs have side

effects and there is a trade off. But untreated clinical depression is worse

than almost any side effect. I know this from personal experience.

When people first go on Antidepressants they suddenly have more energy, and that

energy burst happens before they clear up the bad feelings by growing new

hippocampus cells. That can effect judgment in a negative way. People who had no

energy before to act on their violent or suicidal impulses suddenly have the

energy before sanity occurs. That's a danger period. Also in kids, they can

cause thoughts of suicide at first, but I wonder how much of that is really due

to the drug and how much of it is due to the attitude, that " if I'm so messed up

I have to take meds for it, maybe I don't deserve to live. " But as time passes,

the bad thoughts go away as the medication grows more hippocampus brain cells

and the person starts to think and feel better. Early studies confirmed these

suicidal thoughts and folks got worried, hence the black box warnings. But more

studies have been done since. These later show, that, even during this danger

period there is less actual suicidal attempts and violent acts then there is

with those with equally bad depression who are not put on medication.

Hensley <>< 8-)

Dawn said

For what it is worth with regards to violent outbursts my particular

drug Seroxat is notorious, manic and violent also suicidal behavior.

[Guest guest]

I would never disagree with you on that with seriously

depressed etc. people yes, then the medication is justified.

Unfortunately I believe that they are doled out like sweeties to

people who don't really need them or are misdiagnosed when in fact

there is a physioligical cause like thyroid problems and fobbed off

because the doctor has not bothered to check for the cause of the

depression. The trouble I have with allopathic medicine is they treat

it symptom by symptom without rooting out the cause of the problem.

Treatments have their place and I am stuck on these for life if I

don't want torturous withdrawal symptoms when I was never really

depressed without cause in the first place.

I never had the problem of getting off the old tricylic

antidepressants that I do with these, but I was quite tired. There are

other treatments for mental problems than these as you know.

luv Dawn x

[Guest guest]

OTOH there is a serious link to using antidepressants, especially in younger

people. The

suicide risk is very high. Week before last I had to attend the funeral of a

friend whose 21

year old son committed suicide after being put on AD " s. This kid's girlfriend

had

committed suicide a couple months prior and his room mate a couple of weeks

prior to his

own. His parents had no idea of the risk and would have never consented to his

taking

them had they known. They thought it was best he see a doctor after the

roommate's

suicide.

There is a wealth of info regarding depression and the link to diet which is not

touched on

by the majority of doctors. Proper fats and amino acids are crucial to brain

function.

Ross, Joan Larson, Phd, and Hinz, MD all have info regarding this.

http://www.moodcure.com/

http://www.healthrecovery.com/HRC_2006/OpeningPage.htm

http://neuroassist.com/

The crap that passes for food that the majority of our kids (much less adults)

eat today is

mind boggling to me. We have an entire generation that is at risk of not

outliving their

parents. Yet most of don't give a damn because we are so addicted to what

tastes good

we've lost the ability to determine what is nutritious. Most people truly can't

relate their

health problems to what they eat. It's a foreign concept. We're like addicts,

we make

excuses, we rationalize, anything to be able to keep eating the things we want.

Linn

>

> My Surmontil stops these kinds of thoughts and behavior.

>

> My friend in the hoosegow who is there for attacking a 14 year old, just

called the

house. He is going to be behind bars another 14 months.

>

> And he was only on St. 's Wort which is a natural herb that can treat

mild to

moderate depression. But what Tommy and I have is severe. My presciption

medication

works for me but the Saint 's Wort was not strong enough to help Tommy, so

he was

out of his mind when he attacked that 14 year old.

>

[Guest guest]

>

It is on the list of fluorinated pharmas

> tho here

>

> http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/health/fluorinatedpharmaceuticals.htm

>

>

Great. Not only were there medications on there that I took for

years, there is one that I recently switched to for my sleep disorder

because it has fewer side effects. Crap.

Is there nothing I can take that will work without being poisoned?

8(

[Guest guest]

No, honey, there are not. Antidepressants are the only thing that work well

enough and strong enough to help full blown major depression. There is ECT

(shock therapy) and there VNS are implants (expensive), and there is alpha stim

which is a minor, bunny battery, self administered shock treatment. All of them

have their place but the Antidepressants are quick and have fewer side effects

than the other treatments. I think you could see why I might not want to have

regular ECT done, (besides the expense), even if they do put you under now days

so you don't feel it. Patients who do have to have it done often say going to

the dentist is worse. But I think I'll pass since the pills work for me. The

alpha stim is touted as a safe treatment but I've done my homework. Tests show

it can cause brain lesions. They don't tell you that. I had to dig. It was way

in the back of a long collection of medical documents all touting its safely.

Again I will pass. The VNS implant costs thousands of dollars and psychiatrists

will only use it if nothing else works first, including ECT. There is also

magnetic resonance therapy. Tried it. It was fun. The therapist held up my neck

chain to show me how it would effect it and the thing flew across the room,

splat against the machine! ) That was fun, but it did nothing really for my

depression. The neck chain flying did more than the actual treatment because of

its amusement value.

I am taking every nutritional supplement that has ever helped me. I was doing

that for decades before I wised up and started the Surmontil. They did help

some, about 30 percent. The Antidepressants helped the other 50 percent.

As for talk therapy. It is worthless. I tried it. It is called cognitive therapy

and it tries to teach you to look on the bright side of life, but with me, it

did nothing to stop the migraines and the insomnia, and my other problems are

rooted soundly in reality. No amount of talk will overcome having had an

autistic mother, being along the spectrum myself, and serious, undiagnosed

health problems most of my life. My depression is rooted soundly in reality and

bad genes.

My mother used to hoard spoiled food and garbage. She told me one day and meant

it, " I love the trash and the garbage more than I love you. " Exact word for word

quote.

We got her on Zoloft which is an antidepressant geriatric psychiatrist often use

for old people since it is relatively safe. Suddenly she didn't care any more

about the spoiled rotting food and garbage. We were able to throw it all away.

It took us two years working almost full time. There were decades of accumulated

stuff. You have NO idea how I grew up. (

My father had to die first before I could get my Mother help because he was

against using drugs too.

She was so grateful to me for helping her she actually gave me a hug one day.

That's pretty good for someone so far along the autistic spectrum as she was.

If you do not need the antidepressants, congratulations. But don't discourage

people from seeking help by publishing scare stuff. Prozac may not be too good

for us but there are OTHER AD's. Don't lump them all together in one disdainful

statement! Maybe doctors now days do dole them out more than they should, but I

come from the OTHER era, the one where depression was seen as a MAJOR character

flaw. I had it. My doctor knew I did. He told me to my face he wasn't going to,

" waste his valuable time giving me any medical care because I had " emotional

problems. " The tone of his voice let me know what he thought of me about that.

Now I was a kid. He was the only doctor in town. I looked at him and told him I

had read they were discovering schizophrenia had physical causes and wasn't due

to being a repressed homosexual the way Freud had taught, and what if " having

emotional problems " was due to physical brain problems too? I had plenty of

insight! What a wonderful opportunity this doctor had to help me AND my mother,

because imprimine had been in the PDR since 1957, the year I was born. But he

blew it. He just gave me a scornful look and hustled me out the door.

I heard later he let a friend of mine go blind because, " she's depressed. " The

implication being she didn't deserve not to go blind because there was a deep

character flaw that again made her not worth his valuable time. Yes he got away

with it.

I turned to God to help me. I read the entire Bible all the way through in

several different versions. I haunted churches. I prayed and prayed and prayed!

This brought me very close to God and was not a waste of time. My God shaped

void is nice and full thank you. But for all of that, I was still seriously

incapacitated by depression and killer insomnia, until I was led to go on

Surmontil.

I learned about it because I like to write fan fiction. I was researching

schizophrenia, trying to figure out Howling Mad Murdock of the A Team. My eyes

slipped down the page and there was a perfect description of my problem. I read

further. It said it was a physical disease and there was physical medication to

treat it! It wasn't due to Freudian filth in my subconscious like I had a

teacher accuse me of right in front of the whole class! I had been right! I was

physically ill and there was a treatment! I wasn't a bad girl!

Do you know how much I thanked God that day??

I still had to be careful in my choice of which shrink to go to for help. There

were still plenty of Freudians out there at that time. I only had a small amount

of money to spend, and that made by working out in the hot sun doing part time

land scapemaintenance which was the only job I could hold down. Back then there

were no clean air acts. Every public building was polluted with tobacco smoke

which I must not be around. Plus because of the Aspergers syndrome my social

skills are not good. I come across as weird, cold or lying because I can't read

or respond to facial expressions and have trouble making eye contact. So I had

a chance to attend a lecture by a psychiatrist which was being held at the local

mental hospital. I was a little afraid to go! I was afraid if I got in they

would not let me out again! I had no name for my aspergers syndrome back then

but I already knew people thought I was weird. But I screwed up my courage and

went, and found out this man did believe in medication. And finally I was able

to get help! Finaly after being severely depressed since early child hood!

I didn't dare tell my parents. They would have ridiculed me.

You younger folks, don't know how BLESSED you are to live in the medical era of

mental health treatment!

By the way, the story I wrote, " The A Team and the Tardis Incident " is at

http://www.fanlib.com/s/The_A_Team_and_The_Tardis_Incident/4i9dln

Dawn said

There are

other treatments for mental problems than these as you know.

[Guest guest]

Liz = Surmontil is a tricylic, not even an SSRi which is what I was

talking about, 'flourinated pharmaceuticals'.

And all AD were not lumped together I did say SSRis. Tricylics have

been around much longer and are easier to get off.

You had a bad time, I can understand your passion and relief at your

pills. The SSRi group of drugs I was giving info on, not other types

of ADs.

God bless

Whittersx

[Guest guest]

I tried to treat my depression with diet alone for over 20 years. I was

miserable. I made everyone who had to be around me miserable, and that was the

few people who had to be around me. Anyone who did not have to be, did not stay.

You are right the SAD diet is a big factor in our current fix, but fixing the

diet does not always fix it.

Neither does fixing hormones. I have lost 48 pounds thanks to what I have

learned from Val. But it is not enough.

There were some early studies done that showed there was a connection between

AD's and suicidal THOUGHTS. Further, more detailed and larger studies showed

that they still save lives. Thinking and doing are two separate things.

Unfortunately all that some people are aware of, are the earlier studies, and

some folks for honest and dishonest reasons want to keep folks thinking the

early studies were the total story.

I am sorry for the kid's parents. But depressed people have been harming

themselves and killing themselves for thousands of years before AD's were

invented. Anyone remember Van Gogh? Or Romeo and t which was base don a

true story.

People on antidepressants kill themselves much less than those off of them.

Obviously they don't always work. But even during the danger period, when they

are first used, they STILL cut down on actual attempts. Those are from large,

well documented studies.

Hensley <>< 8-)

mwm1glm said

OTOH there is a serious link to using antidepressants, especially in younger

people. The

suicide risk is very high. Week before last I had to attend the funeral of a

friend whose 21

year old son committed suicide after being put on AD " s. This kid's girlfriend

had

committed suicide a couple months prior and his room mate a couple of weeks

prior to his

own. H

[Guest guest]

I tried to treat my depression with diet alone for over 20 years. I was

miserable. I made everyone who had to be around me miserable, and that was the

few people who had to be around me. Anyone who did not have to be, did not stay.

You are right the SAD diet is a big factor in our current fix, but fixing the

diet does not always fix it.

Neither does fixing hormones. I have lost 48 pounds thanks to what I have

learned from Val. But it is not enough.

There were some early studies done that showed there was a connection between

AD's and suicidal THOUGHTS. Further, more detailed and larger studies showed

that they still save lives. Thinking and doing are two separate things.

Unfortunately all that some people are aware of, are the earlier studies, and

some folks for honest and dishonest reasons want to keep folks thinking the

early studies were the total story.

I am sorry for the kid's parents. But depressed people have been harming

themselves and killing themselves for thousands of years before AD's were

invented. Anyone remember Van Gogh? Or Romeo and t which was base don a

true story.

People on antidepressants kill themselves much less than those off of them.

Obviously they don't always work. But even during the danger period, when they

are first used, they STILL cut down on actual attempts. Those are from large,

well documented studies.

Hensley <>< 8-)

mwm1glm said

OTOH there is a serious link to using antidepressants, especially in younger

people. The

suicide risk is very high. Week before last I had to attend the funeral of a

friend whose 21

year old son committed suicide after being put on AD " s. This kid's girlfriend

had

committed suicide a couple months prior and his room mate a couple of weeks

prior to his

own. H

[Guest guest]

I tried to treat my depression with diet alone for over 20 years. I was

miserable. I made everyone who had to be around me miserable, and that was the

few people who had to be around me. Anyone who did not have to be, did not stay.

You are right the SAD diet is a big factor in our current fix, but fixing the

diet does not always fix it.

Neither does fixing hormones. I have lost 48 pounds thanks to what I have

learned from Val. But it is not enough.

There were some early studies done that showed there was a connection between

AD's and suicidal THOUGHTS. Further, more detailed and larger studies showed

that they still save lives. Thinking and doing are two separate things.

Unfortunately all that some people are aware of, are the earlier studies, and

some folks for honest and dishonest reasons want to keep folks thinking the

early studies were the total story.

I am sorry for the kid's parents. But depressed people have been harming

themselves and killing themselves for thousands of years before AD's were

invented. Anyone remember Van Gogh? Or Romeo and t which was base don a

true story.

People on antidepressants kill themselves much less than those off of them.

Obviously they don't always work. But even during the danger period, when they

are first used, they STILL cut down on actual attempts. Those are from large,

well documented studies.

Hensley <>< 8-)

mwm1glm said

OTOH there is a serious link to using antidepressants, especially in younger

people. The

suicide risk is very high. Week before last I had to attend the funeral of a

friend whose 21

year old son committed suicide after being put on AD " s. This kid's girlfriend

had

committed suicide a couple months prior and his room mate a couple of weeks

prior to his

own. H

[Guest guest]

Surmontil, also known as trimiprimine or Rhotrimine is the only Antidepressant

that does not lower REM sleep. In some people it raises it. So it is great for

sleep disorders and is one of the major reasons I take it. I would have 24/7

sleep deprivation caused migraines if I was not on it. I used to have those 4

out of five days a week before I was put on it.

Beware of taking generic. Generic is almost worthless. Get the brand name.

Hensley <>< 8-)

Great. Not only were there medications on there that I took for

years, there is one that I recently switched to for my sleep disorder

because it has fewer side effects. Crap.

Is there nothing I can take that will work without being poisoned?

[Guest guest]

Surmontil, also known as trimiprimine or Rhotrimine is the only Antidepressant

that does not lower REM sleep. In some people it raises it. So it is great for

sleep disorders and is one of the major reasons I take it. I would have 24/7

sleep deprivation caused migraines if I was not on it. I used to have those 4

out of five days a week before I was put on it.

Beware of taking generic. Generic is almost worthless. Get the brand name.

Hensley <>< 8-)

Great. Not only were there medications on there that I took for

years, there is one that I recently switched to for my sleep disorder

because it has fewer side effects. Crap.

Is there nothing I can take that will work without being poisoned?

[Guest guest]

Surmontil, also known as trimiprimine or Rhotrimine is the only Antidepressant

that does not lower REM sleep. In some people it raises it. So it is great for

sleep disorders and is one of the major reasons I take it. I would have 24/7

sleep deprivation caused migraines if I was not on it. I used to have those 4

out of five days a week before I was put on it.

Beware of taking generic. Generic is almost worthless. Get the brand name.

Hensley <>< 8-)

Great. Not only were there medications on there that I took for

years, there is one that I recently switched to for my sleep disorder

because it has fewer side effects. Crap.

Is there nothing I can take that will work without being poisoned?

[Guest guest]

I am glad you finally clarify that. Some of the folks here don't know there is

a difference and lump all the AD's together under BAD.

Hensley <>< 8-)

Liz = Surmontil is a tricylic, not even an SSRi which is what I was

talking about, 'flourinated pharmaceuticals'.

And all AD were not lumped together I did say SSRis. Tricylics have

been around much longer and are easier to get off.

[Guest guest]

>

> Surmontil, also known as trimiprimine or Rhotrimine is the only

Antidepressant that does not lower REM sleep. In some people it raises

it. So it is great for sleep disorders and is one of the major reasons

I take it. I would have 24/7 sleep deprivation caused migraines if I

was not on it. I used to have those 4 out of five days a week before I

was put on it.

>

> Beware of taking generic. Generic is almost worthless. Get the brand

name.

I'm doubly screwed then. Kaiser always gives you a generic if possible.

They started me on amitryiptyline but I hated the hung over feeling

from it so they switched me to nortriptyline, which I like better,

but I'm not thrilled about seeing it on the list. The whole reason

they have me on it is because I wasn't getting REM sleep!

yeesh!

8(

[Guest guest]

>

> Surmontil, also known as trimiprimine or Rhotrimine is the only

Antidepressant that does not lower REM sleep. In some people it raises

it. So it is great for sleep disorders and is one of the major reasons

I take it. I would have 24/7 sleep deprivation caused migraines if I

was not on it. I used to have those 4 out of five days a week before I

was put on it.

>

> Beware of taking generic. Generic is almost worthless. Get the brand

name.

I'm doubly screwed then. Kaiser always gives you a generic if possible.

They started me on amitryiptyline but I hated the hung over feeling

from it so they switched me to nortriptyline, which I like better,

but I'm not thrilled about seeing it on the list. The whole reason

they have me on it is because I wasn't getting REM sleep!

yeesh!

8(

[Guest guest]

>

> Surmontil, also known as trimiprimine or Rhotrimine is the only

Antidepressant that does not lower REM sleep. In some people it raises

it. So it is great for sleep disorders and is one of the major reasons

I take it. I would have 24/7 sleep deprivation caused migraines if I

was not on it. I used to have those 4 out of five days a week before I

was put on it.

>

> Beware of taking generic. Generic is almost worthless. Get the brand

name.

I'm doubly screwed then. Kaiser always gives you a generic if possible.

They started me on amitryiptyline but I hated the hung over feeling

from it so they switched me to nortriptyline, which I like better,

but I'm not thrilled about seeing it on the list. The whole reason

they have me on it is because I wasn't getting REM sleep!

yeesh!

8(

[Guest guest]

Research and studies are highly manipulated within mainstream medicine.

Alternative

medicine is well aware of the studies linking AD's with suicide and also with

violent

behavior, school shootings in the past couple of decades have been linked to the

shooter's

use of AD's. Information on many things, but especially in certain areas like

cancer,

diabetes and AD's are profit driven. There are vast amounts of money involved,

so much

so, that many truths about these medications will probably never come to light

to the full

mainstream of the population.

Deficiencies of amino acids and other nutritional deficiencies would require the

help of a

qualified doctor or nutritionist trained in this area and testing to be able to

figure out what

the deficiencies are and the proper course to remedy.

You know what has worked for you. I'm not saying that it doesn't, what I am

saying is that

other things are not ruled out first, such as thyroid or adrenal or more simply

nutritional

deficiencies.

Almost every doctor I have talked to has told me that my daughter's Hashi's is

incurable

and that it will run it's course and destroy her thyroid. What I had learned

about

autoimmune diseases and antibodies had taught me that obviously something was

causing the antibodies and the attack on her thyroid. The immune system does

not just

start attacking itself for no reason. It's a defense system to protect us. It

made perfect

sense to me to find out what was causing the attack, remove it and stop the

attack on her

thyroid. That has worked for my daughter and her thyroid problems have ceased.

It's been my experience that there are many people out there trying to do

similar things

for their depression. They don't want to cover up the symptoms with the drugs

or deal

with the side effects of the drugs or they don't like the way the feel while

taking the meds,

they want to find out if there's an underlying problem that can be treated

instead.

I wouldn't want to tell those people that they should just take the drugs and

not look for

another route any more than I like people to tell me that I should just give my

daughter

thyroid meds, ignore what's happening to her body and let her thyroid be

destroyed.

I'm not saying that it's not a valid choice to take the meds that work for each

of us. I'm

just saying that there are options for those who are interested.

That's awesome that you've lost 48 pounds Liz. I'm sure that has helped and

will continue

to help your health.

Linn

>

> I tried to treat my depression with diet alone for over 20 years. I was

miserable. I made

everyone who had to be around me miserable, and that was the few people who had

to be

around me. Anyone who did not have to be, did not stay.

>

> You are right the SAD diet is a big factor in our current fix, but fixing the

diet does not

always fix it.

>

> Neither does fixing hormones. I have lost 48 pounds thanks to what I have

learned from

Val. But it is not enough.

>

> There were some early studies done that showed there was a connection between

AD's

and suicidal THOUGHTS. Further, more detailed and larger studies showed that

they still

save lives. Thinking and doing are two separate things. Unfortunately all that

some people

are aware of, are the earlier studies, and some folks for honest and dishonest

reasons

want to keep folks thinking the early studies were the total story.

>

> I am sorry for the kid's parents. But depressed people have been harming

themselves

and killing themselves for thousands of years before AD's were invented. Anyone

remember Van Gogh? Or Romeo and t which was base don a true story.

>

> People on antidepressants kill themselves much less than those off of them.

Obviously

they don't always work. But even during the danger period, when they are first

used, they

STILL cut down on actual attempts. Those are from large, well documented

studies.

>

> Hensley <>< 8-)

[Guest guest]

Research and studies are highly manipulated within mainstream medicine.

Alternative

medicine is well aware of the studies linking AD's with suicide and also with

violent

behavior, school shootings in the past couple of decades have been linked to the

shooter's

use of AD's. Information on many things, but especially in certain areas like

cancer,

diabetes and AD's are profit driven. There are vast amounts of money involved,

so much

so, that many truths about these medications will probably never come to light

to the full

mainstream of the population.

Deficiencies of amino acids and other nutritional deficiencies would require the

help of a

qualified doctor or nutritionist trained in this area and testing to be able to

figure out what

the deficiencies are and the proper course to remedy.

You know what has worked for you. I'm not saying that it doesn't, what I am

saying is that

other things are not ruled out first, such as thyroid or adrenal or more simply

nutritional

deficiencies.

Almost every doctor I have talked to has told me that my daughter's Hashi's is

incurable

and that it will run it's course and destroy her thyroid. What I had learned

about

autoimmune diseases and antibodies had taught me that obviously something was

causing the antibodies and the attack on her thyroid. The immune system does

not just

start attacking itself for no reason. It's a defense system to protect us. It

made perfect

sense to me to find out what was causing the attack, remove it and stop the

attack on her

thyroid. That has worked for my daughter and her thyroid problems have ceased.

It's been my experience that there are many people out there trying to do

similar things

for their depression. They don't want to cover up the symptoms with the drugs

or deal

with the side effects of the drugs or they don't like the way the feel while

taking the meds,

they want to find out if there's an underlying problem that can be treated

instead.

I wouldn't want to tell those people that they should just take the drugs and

not look for

another route any more than I like people to tell me that I should just give my

daughter

thyroid meds, ignore what's happening to her body and let her thyroid be

destroyed.

I'm not saying that it's not a valid choice to take the meds that work for each

of us. I'm

just saying that there are options for those who are interested.

That's awesome that you've lost 48 pounds Liz. I'm sure that has helped and

will continue

to help your health.

Linn

>

> I tried to treat my depression with diet alone for over 20 years. I was

miserable. I made

everyone who had to be around me miserable, and that was the few people who had

to be

around me. Anyone who did not have to be, did not stay.

>

> You are right the SAD diet is a big factor in our current fix, but fixing the

diet does not

always fix it.

>

> Neither does fixing hormones. I have lost 48 pounds thanks to what I have

learned from

Val. But it is not enough.

>

> There were some early studies done that showed there was a connection between

AD's

and suicidal THOUGHTS. Further, more detailed and larger studies showed that

they still

save lives. Thinking and doing are two separate things. Unfortunately all that

some people

are aware of, are the earlier studies, and some folks for honest and dishonest

reasons

want to keep folks thinking the early studies were the total story.

>

> I am sorry for the kid's parents. But depressed people have been harming

themselves

and killing themselves for thousands of years before AD's were invented. Anyone

remember Van Gogh? Or Romeo and t which was base don a true story.

>

> People on antidepressants kill themselves much less than those off of them.

Obviously

they don't always work. But even during the danger period, when they are first

used, they

STILL cut down on actual attempts. Those are from large, well documented

studies.

>

> Hensley <>< 8-)