Re: Re: Up to 60 mg HC a day... will it level out?

[Guest guest]

Are you on any thyroid? I am thnking you went a bit too high with HC and

jst need mroe thyroid support as your T3 is too low in your saliva

testing as is your testosterone.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

Are you on any thyroid? I am thnking you went a bit too high with HC and

jst need mroe thyroid support as your T3 is too low in your saliva

testing as is your testosterone.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

Are you on any thyroid? I am thnking you went a bit too high with HC and

jst need mroe thyroid support as your T3 is too low in your saliva

testing as is your testosterone.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

This sort sounds like me, except that I'm not 55 (I'm 29 instead).

I'd not an expert here by *any* means, but it looks like you *might*

have jumped the gun with the HC. I get aches when cortisol gets low

it seems (I did at the end of my un-successfull [-enoug] Isocort

wean, especially when under stress. Now I think I'm at an adequate

amount of cortisol for my amount of thyroid (2 grains/d) - though

I'm going to defiitely going to mention this to the Ingegrative,

natural horomes replacement (including cortisol I hope), DAN! doc

(Defeat Autism Now!) I'm seeing next month. Adrenal insufficieny is

very common in autism, so probably she will know how to deal with low-

dose cortisol replacement. I get aches now and then now (back aches

for me, this may be common) when I have stress-dosed the night

before, and I think it's because of low cortisol (relative to what

the body wants/needs), but caused by a partial supression of the HPA/

adrenals (so the adrenals aren't making enough). These times I

usually just tough it out, unless there is more external stress - as

I don't want any partial shutdown to go any further, and it seems to

resolve within about a day (pain is gone on my normal dose of IsoCort)

Your TSH is a lot higher than mine was even not on treatment,

although I caught this early. With negative antibodies, this *might*

mean no autoimmunity - false-negative can occur. Val would know more

if the autoantibody numbers can actually go to *0* (rather than just

a very low number) ever with autoimmune hypoT in temporary remission

(no Hashi attack going on). (technical aside: It would be nice if

they could look at T-cell reactivity to determine autoimmunty - but

I'm not sure that would work with hypoT - I think it would work with

T1 diabetes)

Low adrenals would pull the thyroid down and push TSH up from what

I've read. T4 is very low - Val likes to see it at 1.4 IIRC. T3 is

low but I'm not sure how " bad " it is. There may be RT3 in the

system, which would lead to low T3 and high T4 on Armour. This is

*very* speculative, only looking at the high T4 number really - an

RT3 test would confirm RT3 dominance, althugh it has to be done while

on the same dose of thyroid, perhaps in a window to the T3 test, and

cortisol *might* affect it.

How to get out of this mess, I'm not sure. If RT3 is the problem,

switching to Cytomel (all T3) would clear out the T4 and RT3 -

although it would take a while as T4 has a long bio-life. I'm not

sure how sufficient/insufficient cortisol affects the process of

getting rid of RT3 - except that T3 like anything else is going to

stress the system. I'd think 60 mg HC would be more than enough to

handle a switch to Cytomel, but there might be some physical symptoms

if straight T3 uses up the cortisol quicker than T3/T4 in Amour.

If there is partial supression, this needs to be gotten rid of

probably. What does your dosing schedule look like for HC? If I

take IsoCort after about 9 PM, it screws up my sleep (but not so much

my waking the next day or energy strangely). If I do stress-dose at

night, I'll reduce the morning Isocort dose to avoid too high a level

and too much suppression, but I'll usually have some back pain anyway

(either from relatively insufficient cortisol or from the lack of

sleep). I *always* keep decreasing the dose during the day though

(things get worse if I have two doses the same in a row). I'm not

sure if this is the best way to go, but.. reason to mention it tot

he DAN!

I'm not sure about the sex hormones. If the estradiol range is a

valid " normal " range, then it is maybe high. This would contribute

to adrenal problems (I forget exactly how right now).

How to get out of this mess, reduce the HC and get the pitutitary

loop going again (if it is supressed too much) - I'm not sure.

Dropping the HC slowly would be in order I think, but that would

place more stress on the adrenals.. Reducing the thyroid dosage

should reduce stress on the adrenals by itself, which would allow you

to slowly reduce the HC without getting too bad reduction ( " wean-

down " ) symptoms.

This is not a sprint, it's a marathon.. I'm learning that more

all the time. I don't want to screw anything up more than I can

avoid, like by supressing things too much, so I am conservative with

things like stress-dosing for what seems like transient aches.

Whether this is good in the long run? I don't know.

Jim

> I'm a male, just turned 55. I've had a long history of low-grade

> health problems since I can remember. Fevers, muscle aches, lethargy,

> weakness, sub-normal temps, mental fogginess, coming alive as the day

> wore on, and always wanting to stay up late and then sleep late the

> next morning.

>

> I've been under the stress of a kitchen/room addition and a bad cold

> so I've been stress dosing. I'm the general contractor so I don't do

> heavy work, just light duties, and I rest often. I take enough to get

> my temps to normal or close, and when my arms ache (my earliest

> symptom) and it progresses into a deepening tiredness. I feel a heavy,

> dizzy sort of feeling coming on, and when I get that bad, I take

> another dose. And for the past two days, it has taken this much. Maybe

> I've jumped the gun here, but I would rather start earlier than to let

> it go.

>

> I had this run at a local lab:

> RESULTS:

> TPO 0.........10...........................34

> TGAB 0..................20........................40

>

> Cortisol from C. Club

>

> 8 am 13 (13 - 24 nM) normal (yeah, right!)

> 12 noon 5 (5 - 10 nM) normal (ditto!)

> 4 pm 2 (3 - 8 nM) depressed

> Midnight 3 (1 - 4 nM) normal

>

> Cortisol Burden 23 (23 - 42)

>

> DHEA 6 (3 - 10 ng/ml)

> (0n chart, it is in the Reference range at position 3 up, and position

> 6 over, which puts it scraping bottom next to Zone 5 - Non-Adapted,

> Low Reserves)

>

> Thyroid

>

> TSH 28 (26 - 85 nlU/ml ng/ml)

> T4 .38 (.17 - .42 ng/dl)

> T3.50(.28 - 1.10 pg/ml)

> TPO Negative

>

> Estrsdiol 11 male (50-85 yrs.): 1 - 5 pg/ml pg/ml

> Progesterone 94 male (5 - 95) pg/ml

> Free Testosterone 36 male (51-60yrs) 35 - 65 pg/ml