Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 >Also: >> There is a 100% chance that if you go T4 only you will get that Rt3 >> down > >This doesn't really apply to me as I'm not on anything T4-only (as in Synthroid). correct? My Typo, this should read T3 > >Wait. How about this? What if I STAY on my 2 grains of NDT but ALSO supplement with Cynomel until I get my FT3 to the top of the range? It may not be a permanent fix though, but at least I won't run the risk of decreasing my RT3 ratio... That might help, see what happens if you like T3 only is the guaranteed way, other ways may work Nick -- for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to www.thyroid-rt3.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 >Ok thanks! After thinking over everything you've said, I think I'll raise my NDT by 1/4 grain (once I get my adrenals stable) to see how it affects my levels. Then in 3 weeks when I get them tested, I'll know for sure what's really going on and my choice will be that much easier--NDT or T3 only. You are massively under medicated and it will take a LOT more than 1/4 grain to make a difference to that. You are possibly under medicated to the extent of being worse on it than without it (enough to lower your own production, not enough to replace the amount you lower it by) Have a read of this page if you are going to go the natural route http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/things-we-have-learned/ Nick -- for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to www.thyroid-rt3.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 >***By " natural route " , do you mean NDT (as opposed to Cynomel/Synthroid) or specific supplementation???? Yes, Natural as in the various pig thyroid derivatives such as Erfa, Thyroid S, Greater Pharma etc. I don't know the current usability of Armour since the 2008/9 reformulation or Naturethyroid since they had to change manufacturer. > >Also: >You are massively under medicated and it will take a LOT more than 1/4 >> grain to make a difference to that. >> >> You are possibly under medicated to the extent of being worse on it >> than without it (enough to lower your own production, not enough to >> replace the amount you lower it by > >Yeah, I know I'm horribly HYPO, but for years now I haven't been able to tolerate any dosage increase due to a recently-discovered low ferritin and weak adrenal issues. At this moment, ferritin is raised, and adrenals are supported (I think). The reason I suggested a 1/4 grain raise is that if I do indeed have a RT3 issue, I want it to show up on my next thyroid panel. I thought by only slightly raising the dose that a RT3 issue would show up on my next lab without making the ratio too much worse than it is at present (15.8 ratio). 1/4 grain is not enough to notice, I would consider something like half and then another half a week later if there are no side effects. >That being said, if you think I should try raising it higher than a 1/4 grain, let me know. I've got a little over 2 weeks until my next blood draw. No changes that you make with meds containing T4 will be stable in 2 weeks > >Thanks for all your help. I so badly want to get out of this mess! But I'm so reluctant to try anything that might possibly aggravate my already-pathetic condition... > you either need to get the natural up a grain inside a fortnight and then keep upping it until you are stable, the 3 to 5 grain band is where most people settle or drop anything containing T4 and start ramping up the T3. You need to do one or the other and soon as you are horribly hypo. Having been on Natural for 10 years and then T3 only for a year I will say that T3 is MUCH easier to adjust by symptoms than Natural. Nick -- for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to www.thyroid-rt3.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 >***By " natural route " , do you mean NDT (as opposed to Cynomel/Synthroid) or specific supplementation???? Yes, Natural as in the various pig thyroid derivatives such as Erfa, Thyroid S, Greater Pharma etc. I don't know the current usability of Armour since the 2008/9 reformulation or Naturethyroid since they had to change manufacturer. > >Also: >You are massively under medicated and it will take a LOT more than 1/4 >> grain to make a difference to that. >> >> You are possibly under medicated to the extent of being worse on it >> than without it (enough to lower your own production, not enough to >> replace the amount you lower it by > >Yeah, I know I'm horribly HYPO, but for years now I haven't been able to tolerate any dosage increase due to a recently-discovered low ferritin and weak adrenal issues. At this moment, ferritin is raised, and adrenals are supported (I think). The reason I suggested a 1/4 grain raise is that if I do indeed have a RT3 issue, I want it to show up on my next thyroid panel. I thought by only slightly raising the dose that a RT3 issue would show up on my next lab without making the ratio too much worse than it is at present (15.8 ratio). 1/4 grain is not enough to notice, I would consider something like half and then another half a week later if there are no side effects. >That being said, if you think I should try raising it higher than a 1/4 grain, let me know. I've got a little over 2 weeks until my next blood draw. No changes that you make with meds containing T4 will be stable in 2 weeks > >Thanks for all your help. I so badly want to get out of this mess! But I'm so reluctant to try anything that might possibly aggravate my already-pathetic condition... > you either need to get the natural up a grain inside a fortnight and then keep upping it until you are stable, the 3 to 5 grain band is where most people settle or drop anything containing T4 and start ramping up the T3. You need to do one or the other and soon as you are horribly hypo. Having been on Natural for 10 years and then T3 only for a year I will say that T3 is MUCH easier to adjust by symptoms than Natural. Nick -- for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to www.thyroid-rt3.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> Subject: Re: "Lab rat"To: RT3_T3 Date: Monday, July 12, 2010, 3:49 PM Hi Nick, > No changes that you make with meds containing T4 will be stable in 2 weeksAre you also saying that I can't even KNOW if I have RT3 issue for sure by my next blood draw on 7/29? I thought that at least by raising my NDT dose the ratio would go up or down by then. All I want to know is if I for sure need to ditch the NDT or not. My doc will be on board with the whole T3-only protocol but only if my labs lead him to believe I've got RT3.Again, the latest labs:>FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9)>FT4--0.58 (0.61-1.12)>RT3--17My doc has been really great so far, but he doesn't believe I've got RT3 and therefore wants me to steer clear of T3-only. He thinks now that my iron is up and my adrenals are getting stabalized that I should be able to raise my NDT just fine. He may be right. You did say:If you take more [NDT] and don't increase the RT3 level you will be fine, if the RT3 goes up as well then it's T3 only for you What's the shortest route to discovering this? And when should these labs need to be taken in order to show RT3? Sorry for the redundance! I just want to make sure I'm understanding... > > >***By "natural route", do you mean NDT (as opposed to Cynomel/Synthroid) or specific supplementation????> > Yes, Natural as in the various pig thyroid derivatives such as Erfa,> Thyroid S, Greater Pharma etc. I don't know the current usability of> Armour since the 2008/9 reformulation or Naturethyroid since they had> to change manufacturer.> >> >Also:> >You are massively under medicated and it will take a LOT more than 1/4> >> grain to make a difference to that.> >> > >> You are possibly under medicated to the extent of being worse on it> >> than without it (enough to lower your own production, not enough to> >> replace the amount you lower it by> >> >Yeah, I know I'm horribly HYPO, but for years now I haven't been able to tolerate any dosage increase due to a recently-discovered low ferritin and weak adrenal issues. At this moment, ferritin is raised, and adrenals are supported (I think). The reason I suggested a 1/4 grain raise is that if I do indeed have a RT3 issue, I want it to show up on my next thyroid panel. I thought by only slightly raising the dose that a RT3 issue would show up on my next lab without making the ratio too much worse than it is at present (15.8 ratio). > > 1/4 grain is not enough to notice, I would consider something like> half and then another half a week later if there are no side effects.> > >That being said, if you think I should try raising it higher than a 1/4 grain, let me know. I've got a little over 2 weeks until my next blood draw.> > No changes that you make with meds containing T4 will be stable in 2> weeks> >> >Thanks for all your help. I so badly want to get out of this mess! But I'm so reluctant to try anything that might possibly aggravate my already-pathetic condition...> >> you either need to get the natural up a grain inside a fortnight and> then keep upping it until you are stable, the 3 to 5 grain band is> where most people settle or drop anything containing T4 and start> ramping up the T3. > > You need to do one or the other and soon as you are horribly hypo.> > Having been on Natural for 10 years and then T3 only for a year I will> say that T3 is MUCH easier to adjust by symptoms than Natural.> > Nick> > -- > > for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to > > www.thyroid-rt3.com>------------------------------------We are not medical professionals here, just patients sharing our experiences. Please use this information with the help of a competent doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 > >Are you also saying that I can't even KNOW if I have RT3 issue for sure by my next blood draw on 7/29? I thought that at least by raising my NDT dose the ratio would go up or down by then. All I want to know is if I for sure need to ditch the NDT or not. My doc will be on board with the whole T3-only protocol but only if my labs lead him to believe I've got RT3. >Again, the latest labs: >>FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9) >>FT4--0.58 (0.61-1.12) >>RT3--17 OK, it's not straightforward. Your FT3/RT3 ratio which is one of the critical markers is 15.8 and we are looking for 20, on the face of it that says an RT3 problem. Having said that you are so hypo from being under medicated that things are not simple. If you take more Natural and the FT3 came to the top of the range but the RT3 only went up to 20 then your ratio will be 19.5, as near to the 20 that we are looking for as makes any odds. That FT3 upper number is the lowest I have seen, you may need to get above that to feel best, that lab has based their norms on a lot of sick people! You have 2 choices, increase the natural up to at least 3 grains and be prepared to go as high as 5 if you need it, it will take months to build to that as your own body production alters as a result of the added hormone, retest RT3 in a few months time and see if you have a problem once your FT3 is at a decent number. I would estimate it will take at least 2 months of increases to know if you have a problem. If you did have it would be T3 only then. The other choice is to go onto T3 anyway, you don't have high levels of RT3 so probably don't have blocked receptors, you can increase T3 quite quickly (it stabilizes after 3 days) and as your FT4 is low don't have much T4 to decay away. I suspect you would feel a lot better inside 2 weeks and be able to get to a stable dose in 6 weeks. The down side of T3 is you need to take them between 4 and 6 times a day. I don't find this a problem, the tablets of Grossman T3 are sweet and I take them without water. I count out the day's worth into a bottle and carry that round with me taking only from that bottle, I then know how many I have taken that day so can check if I have missed a dose. I also keep spares in my computer bad, car, and office so that if I forget the " bottle of the day " I don't have to go home for it. Nick -- for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to www.thyroid-rt3.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 > >Are you also saying that I can't even KNOW if I have RT3 issue for sure by my next blood draw on 7/29? I thought that at least by raising my NDT dose the ratio would go up or down by then. All I want to know is if I for sure need to ditch the NDT or not. My doc will be on board with the whole T3-only protocol but only if my labs lead him to believe I've got RT3. >Again, the latest labs: >>FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9) >>FT4--0.58 (0.61-1.12) >>RT3--17 OK, it's not straightforward. Your FT3/RT3 ratio which is one of the critical markers is 15.8 and we are looking for 20, on the face of it that says an RT3 problem. Having said that you are so hypo from being under medicated that things are not simple. If you take more Natural and the FT3 came to the top of the range but the RT3 only went up to 20 then your ratio will be 19.5, as near to the 20 that we are looking for as makes any odds. That FT3 upper number is the lowest I have seen, you may need to get above that to feel best, that lab has based their norms on a lot of sick people! You have 2 choices, increase the natural up to at least 3 grains and be prepared to go as high as 5 if you need it, it will take months to build to that as your own body production alters as a result of the added hormone, retest RT3 in a few months time and see if you have a problem once your FT3 is at a decent number. I would estimate it will take at least 2 months of increases to know if you have a problem. If you did have it would be T3 only then. The other choice is to go onto T3 anyway, you don't have high levels of RT3 so probably don't have blocked receptors, you can increase T3 quite quickly (it stabilizes after 3 days) and as your FT4 is low don't have much T4 to decay away. I suspect you would feel a lot better inside 2 weeks and be able to get to a stable dose in 6 weeks. The down side of T3 is you need to take them between 4 and 6 times a day. I don't find this a problem, the tablets of Grossman T3 are sweet and I take them without water. I count out the day's worth into a bottle and carry that round with me taking only from that bottle, I then know how many I have taken that day so can check if I have missed a dose. I also keep spares in my computer bad, car, and office so that if I forget the " bottle of the day " I don't have to go home for it. Nick -- for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to www.thyroid-rt3.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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