Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 >Latest numbers: >FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9) >RT3--17 > >I just want to know what you would do if you were in my shoes... I would say that there is an 80% chance that if you get your FT3 to top of range you will be OK even if there is still T4 around There is a 100% chance that if you go T4 only you will get that Rt3 down > >And is there anything I can do during this time to help improve the ratio, despite the fact that I'm still on NDT? What happens if you take more NDT???? You are horribly under medicated, that FT3 needs to be top of range or a little over to feel well. If you take more and don't increase the RT3 level you will be fine, if the RT3 goes up as well then it's T3 only for you FT3 at 3.9 and RT3 where it is gives a ratio of 22, it's your FT3 that's low rather than the RT3 horribly high. Nick -- for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to www.thyroid-rt3.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 I just wanted to tell you that while I was on T4-only last summer my ft3/rt3 ratio went from 13 to 16 itself in just a Month so who knows what the body is capable of?Sendt fra min iPhoneDen 9. juli 2010 kl. 17.07 skrev "" : Hello Mods, I want to be on Cynomel, but my doc really wants to keep me on NDT, even though I have RT3. He believes that now my ferritin is up (with iron IVs) and I'm taking Isocort that my RT3 should resolve itself. He could be right, but I'm pessimistic. I have an RT3 ratio of 15.8 at present (it's improved from a 15.7 in two weeks--I attribute it to the iron IVs). My next appt. is on Aug. 2, and I need your advice. What sort of RT3 ratio improvement should tell me to just trust the doc and stay put on NDT? And at what point do I need to insist on the T3 protocol? Latest numbers: FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9) RT3--17 I just want to know what you would do if you were in my shoes... And is there anything I can do during this time to help improve the ratio, despite the fact that I'm still on NDT? Thanks ever so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 You are horribly HYPO. But I do not knwo if your ratio will improve wiht more NDT. To do it his way oyu are going to HAVE to trry more. Maybe thta wil be a deciding factor for you. It will either improve wiht the addition of more NDT or it will worsen in hich case you KNWO it is not working. >> >> >> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ >> http://faqhelp.webs.com/ >> >> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ >> http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/ >> > Hello Mods, > > I want to be on Cynomel, but my doc really wants to keep me on NDT, even though I have RT3. He believes that now my ferritin is up (with iron IVs) and I'm taking Isocort that my RT3 should resolve itself. He could be right, but I'm pessimistic. > I have an RT3 ratio of 15.8 at present (it's improved from a 15.7 in two weeks--I attribute it to the iron IVs). > My next appt. is on Aug. 2, and I need your advice. What sort of RT3 ratio improvement should tell me to just trust the doc and stay put on NDT? And at what point do I need to insist on the T3 protocol? > Latest numbers: > FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9) > RT3--17 > > I just want to know what you would do if you were in my shoes... > > And is there anything I can do during this time to help improve the ratio, despite the fact that I'm still on NDT? > > Thanks ever so much! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > We are not medical professionals here, just patients sharing our experiences. Please use this information with the help of a competent doctor. Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 From my experience, this is what I would do. Keep on the iron. Make sure it gets up to a really good level and stays there. Go easy on the N Th. The doc may be right. Give him a month or two. I found that iron uses up T3, so low iron itself limits how much T3 your body can use. So low iron means T3 can back up and cause RT3 to form. I was pretty stable on T3 but still hyp. not realizing that my iron had dropped again I raised T3. Shortness of breath returned, so I think the extra T3 used up all the iron available. Dorothy > > I want to be on Cynomel, but my doc really wants to keep me on NDT, even though I have RT3. He believes that now my ferritin is up (with iron IVs) and I'm taking Isocort that my RT3 should resolve itself. He could be right, but I'm pessimistic. > I have an RT3 ratio of 15.8 at present (it's improved from a 15.7 in two weeks--I attribute it to the iron IVs). > My next appt. is on Aug. 2, and I need your advice. What sort of RT3 ratio improvement should tell me to just trust the doc and stay put on NDT? And at what point do I need to insist on the T3 protocol? > Latest numbers: > FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9) > RT3--17 > > I just want to know what you would do if you were in my shoes... > > And is there anything I can do during this time to help improve the ratio, despite the fact that I'm still on NDT? > > Thanks ever so much! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 >I would say that there is an 80% chance that if you get your FT3 to >top of range you will be OK even if there is still T4 around > >There is a 100% chance that if you go T4 only you will get that Rt3 >down Typo alert That should read T3 only in the second para Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 Ok whoah! JUST to make sure I'm understanding you correctly (and bear with me here--this may sound repetative to you). So when you said this: > I would say that there is an 80% chance that if you get your FT3 to > top of range you will be OK even if there is still T4 around You're saying that if I STAY on NDT and raise it, that I'll have an 80% of getting my FT3 high enough WITHOUT getting a RT3 problem? (As in a 20% chance that I'll worsen my RT3 ratio?) Also: > There is a 100% chance that if you go T4 only you will get that Rt3 > down This doesn't really apply to me as I'm not on anything T4-only (as in Synthroid). correct? Wait. How about this? What if I STAY on my 2 grains of NDT but ALSO supplement with Cynomel until I get my FT3 to the top of the range? It may not be a permanent fix though, but at least I won't run the risk of decreasing my RT3 ratio... Or do you think I should just try to increase the NDT now and hope to goodness it won't react negatively on my RT3 ratio? Thanks a million for all your advice!!! You're saving my life! > > >Latest numbers: > >FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9) > >RT3--17 > > > >I just want to know what you would do if you were in my shoes... > > I would say that there is an 80% chance that if you get your FT3 to > top of range you will be OK even if there is still T4 around > > There is a 100% chance that if you go T4 only you will get that Rt3 > down > > > > >And is there anything I can do during this time to help improve the ratio, despite the fact that I'm still on NDT? > > What happens if you take more NDT???? You are horribly under > medicated, that FT3 needs to be top of range or a little over to feel > well. > > If you take more and don't increase the RT3 level you will be fine, if > the RT3 goes up as well then it's T3 only for you > > FT3 at 3.9 and RT3 where it is gives a ratio of 22, it's your FT3 > that's low rather than the RT3 horribly high. > > Nick > > -- > > for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to > > www.thyroid-rt3.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 Whew! I was so confused because with the T3, it's what brought down the RT3 in me. Thanks for the retraction, it really helped. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<>>I would say that there is an 80% chance that if you get your FT3 to>top of range you will be OK even if there is still T4 around>>There is a 100% chance that if you go T4 only you will get that Rt3>downTypo alertThat should read T3 only in the second paraNick------------------------------------We are not medical professionals here, just patients sharing our experiences. Please use this information with the help of a competent doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 Ok thanks! After thinking over everything you've said, I think I'll raise my NDT by 1/4 grain (once I get my adrenals stable) to see how it affects my levels. Then in 3 weeks when I get them tested, I'll know for sure what's really going on and my choice will be that much easier--NDT or T3 only. Even though I hate where I am, I can't help but be totally fascinated by the science of it all! Nick and Val, if you're ever offering " classes " in any RT3/adrenal/thyroid topics, I'd gladly pay to enroll! This stuff is enormously important for doctors/patients to understand! Many thanks! > > >Also: > >> There is a 100% chance that if you go T4 only you will get that Rt3 > >> down > > > >This doesn't really apply to me as I'm not on anything T4-only (as in Synthroid). correct? > > My Typo, this should read T3 > > > >Wait. How about this? What if I STAY on my 2 grains of NDT but ALSO supplement with Cynomel until I get my FT3 to the top of the range? It may not be a permanent fix though, but at least I won't run the risk of decreasing my RT3 ratio... > > That might help, see what happens if you like > > T3 only is the guaranteed way, other ways may work > > Nick > > -- > > for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to > > www.thyroid-rt3.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Hey Nick, Thanks for the link! I actually know that page almost by heart now. I visit STTM on almost a daily basis to make sure I'm not " missing " anything. You said: > Have a read of this page if you are going to go the natural route ***By " natural route " , do you mean NDT (as opposed to Cynomel/Synthroid) or specific supplementation???? Also: You are massively under medicated and it will take a LOT more than 1/4 > grain to make a difference to that. > > You are possibly under medicated to the extent of being worse on it > than without it (enough to lower your own production, not enough to > replace the amount you lower it by Yeah, I know I'm horribly HYPO, but for years now I haven't been able to tolerate any dosage increase due to a recently-discovered low ferritin and weak adrenal issues. At this moment, ferritin is raised, and adrenals are supported (I think). The reason I suggested a 1/4 grain raise is that if I do indeed have a RT3 issue, I want it to show up on my next thyroid panel. I thought by only slightly raising the dose that a RT3 issue would show up on my next lab without making the ratio too much worse than it is at present (15.8 ratio). That being said, if you think I should try raising it higher than a 1/4 grain, let me know. I've got a little over 2 weeks until my next blood draw. Thanks for all your help. I so badly want to get out of this mess! But I'm so reluctant to try anything that might possibly aggravate my already-pathetic condition... Gratefully yours, sTeph > > >Ok thanks! After thinking over everything you've said, I think I'll raise my NDT by 1/4 grain (once I get my adrenals stable) to see how it affects my levels. Then in 3 weeks when I get them tested, I'll know for sure what's really going on and my choice will be that much easier--NDT or T3 only. > > You are massively under medicated and it will take a LOT more than 1/4 > grain to make a difference to that. > > You are possibly under medicated to the extent of being worse on it > than without it (enough to lower your own production, not enough to > replace the amount you lower it by) > > Have a read of this page if you are going to go the natural route > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/things-we-have-learned/ > > Nick > > -- > > for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to > > www.thyroid-rt3.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 Hi Nick, > No changes that you make with meds containing T4 will be stable in 2 weeks Are you also saying that I can't even KNOW if I have RT3 issue for sure by my next blood draw on 7/29? I thought that at least by raising my NDT dose the ratio would go up or down by then. All I want to know is if I for sure need to ditch the NDT or not. My doc will be on board with the whole T3-only protocol but only if my labs lead him to believe I've got RT3. Again, the latest labs: >FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9) >FT4--0.58 (0.61-1.12) >RT3--17 My doc has been really great so far, but he doesn't believe I've got RT3 and therefore wants me to steer clear of T3-only. He thinks now that my iron is up and my adrenals are getting stabalized that I should be able to raise my NDT just fine. He may be right. You did say: If you take more [NDT] and don't increase the RT3 level you will be fine, if the RT3 goes up as well then it's T3 only for you What's the shortest route to discovering this? And when should these labs need to be taken in order to show RT3? Sorry for the redundance! I just want to make sure I'm understanding... > > >***By " natural route " , do you mean NDT (as opposed to Cynomel/Synthroid) or specific supplementation???? > > Yes, Natural as in the various pig thyroid derivatives such as Erfa, > Thyroid S, Greater Pharma etc. I don't know the current usability of > Armour since the 2008/9 reformulation or Naturethyroid since they had > to change manufacturer. > > > >Also: > >You are massively under medicated and it will take a LOT more than 1/4 > >> grain to make a difference to that. > >> > >> You are possibly under medicated to the extent of being worse on it > >> than without it (enough to lower your own production, not enough to > >> replace the amount you lower it by > > > >Yeah, I know I'm horribly HYPO, but for years now I haven't been able to tolerate any dosage increase due to a recently-discovered low ferritin and weak adrenal issues. At this moment, ferritin is raised, and adrenals are supported (I think). The reason I suggested a 1/4 grain raise is that if I do indeed have a RT3 issue, I want it to show up on my next thyroid panel. I thought by only slightly raising the dose that a RT3 issue would show up on my next lab without making the ratio too much worse than it is at present (15.8 ratio). > > 1/4 grain is not enough to notice, I would consider something like > half and then another half a week later if there are no side effects. > > >That being said, if you think I should try raising it higher than a 1/4 grain, let me know. I've got a little over 2 weeks until my next blood draw. > > No changes that you make with meds containing T4 will be stable in 2 > weeks > > > >Thanks for all your help. I so badly want to get out of this mess! But I'm so reluctant to try anything that might possibly aggravate my already-pathetic condition... > > > you either need to get the natural up a grain inside a fortnight and > then keep upping it until you are stable, the 3 to 5 grain band is > where most people settle or drop anything containing T4 and start > ramping up the T3. > > You need to do one or the other and soon as you are horribly hypo. > > Having been on Natural for 10 years and then T3 only for a year I will > say that T3 is MUCH easier to adjust by symptoms than Natural. > > Nick > > -- > > for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to > > www.thyroid-rt3.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Ah, beautifully explained Nick! Thank you! Of course, even though my doc may actually be right about me being ok on NDT, I REALLY don't want to risk him being wrong and having this process stretch out over the next 6 months. I can't handle it. You've convinced me--T3-only is the safest route. > > > > >Are you also saying that I can't even KNOW if I have RT3 issue for sure by my next blood draw on 7/29? I thought that at least by raising my NDT dose the ratio would go up or down by then. All I want to know is if I for sure need to ditch the NDT or not. My doc will be on board with the whole T3-only protocol but only if my labs lead him to believe I've got RT3. > >Again, the latest labs: > >>FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9) > >>FT4--0.58 (0.61-1.12) > >>RT3--17 > > OK, it's not straightforward. > > Your FT3/RT3 ratio which is one of the critical markers is 15.8 and we > are looking for 20, on the face of it that says an RT3 problem. > > Having said that you are so hypo from being under medicated that > things are not simple. If you take more Natural and the FT3 came to > the top of the range but the RT3 only went up to 20 then your ratio > will be 19.5, as near to the 20 that we are looking for as makes any > odds. That FT3 upper number is the lowest I have seen, you may need to > get above that to feel best, that lab has based their norms on a lot > of sick people! > > You have 2 choices, increase the natural up to at least 3 grains and > be prepared to go as high as 5 if you need it, it will take months to > build to that as your own body production alters as a result of the > added hormone, retest RT3 in a few months time and see if you have a > problem once your FT3 is at a decent number. I would estimate it will > take at least 2 months of increases to know if you have a problem. If > you did have it would be T3 only then. > > > The other choice is to go onto T3 anyway, you don't have high levels > of RT3 so probably don't have blocked receptors, you can increase T3 > quite quickly (it stabilizes after 3 days) and as your FT4 is low > don't have much T4 to decay away. > > I suspect you would feel a lot better inside 2 weeks and be able to > get to a stable dose in 6 weeks. The down side of T3 is you need to > take them between 4 and 6 times a day. I don't find this a problem, > the tablets of Grossman T3 are sweet and I take them without water. I > count out the day's worth into a bottle and carry that round with me > taking only from that bottle, I then know how many I have taken that > day so can check if I have missed a dose. > > I also keep spares in my computer bad, car, and office so that if I > forget the " bottle of the day " I don't have to go home for it. > > Nick > > -- > > for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to > > www.thyroid-rt3.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Ah, beautifully explained Nick! Thank you! Of course, even though my doc may actually be right about me being ok on NDT, I REALLY don't want to risk him being wrong and having this process stretch out over the next 6 months. I can't handle it. You've convinced me--T3-only is the safest route. > > > > >Are you also saying that I can't even KNOW if I have RT3 issue for sure by my next blood draw on 7/29? I thought that at least by raising my NDT dose the ratio would go up or down by then. All I want to know is if I for sure need to ditch the NDT or not. My doc will be on board with the whole T3-only protocol but only if my labs lead him to believe I've got RT3. > >Again, the latest labs: > >>FT3--2.7 (2.5-3.9) > >>FT4--0.58 (0.61-1.12) > >>RT3--17 > > OK, it's not straightforward. > > Your FT3/RT3 ratio which is one of the critical markers is 15.8 and we > are looking for 20, on the face of it that says an RT3 problem. > > Having said that you are so hypo from being under medicated that > things are not simple. If you take more Natural and the FT3 came to > the top of the range but the RT3 only went up to 20 then your ratio > will be 19.5, as near to the 20 that we are looking for as makes any > odds. That FT3 upper number is the lowest I have seen, you may need to > get above that to feel best, that lab has based their norms on a lot > of sick people! > > You have 2 choices, increase the natural up to at least 3 grains and > be prepared to go as high as 5 if you need it, it will take months to > build to that as your own body production alters as a result of the > added hormone, retest RT3 in a few months time and see if you have a > problem once your FT3 is at a decent number. I would estimate it will > take at least 2 months of increases to know if you have a problem. If > you did have it would be T3 only then. > > > The other choice is to go onto T3 anyway, you don't have high levels > of RT3 so probably don't have blocked receptors, you can increase T3 > quite quickly (it stabilizes after 3 days) and as your FT4 is low > don't have much T4 to decay away. > > I suspect you would feel a lot better inside 2 weeks and be able to > get to a stable dose in 6 weeks. The down side of T3 is you need to > take them between 4 and 6 times a day. I don't find this a problem, > the tablets of Grossman T3 are sweet and I take them without water. I > count out the day's worth into a bottle and carry that round with me > taking only from that bottle, I then know how many I have taken that > day so can check if I have missed a dose. > > I also keep spares in my computer bad, car, and office so that if I > forget the " bottle of the day " I don't have to go home for it. > > Nick > > -- > > for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to > > www.thyroid-rt3.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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