Re: Hi Val and Mods: Long story but need your help

[Guest guest]

1.Could

my thyroid be somewhat normal in producing T4/T3 but the main

problem be the mis-conversion of T4 to Rt3 due to 20 years of

vegetarianism causing chronic low ferritin levels plus the

significant stress upon me in the last 5 years (which is when my

main symptoms first manifested) combining to produce my

resistance in the cell receptors?

A) I

absolutely think it is low ferritin that has caused this

situation for you. I see no severe adrenal stress just low iron

and thta is enoguh ot cause high RT3.

2. Is it

conceivable that I can support adrenals hopefully with

Adaptogens, continue to raise my ferritin levels with iron tabs,

clear my RT3 with T3 only in 12 or so weeks then wean off the T3

after clearance allowing my then supported adrenals and ferritin

levels to promote normal function of conversion of T4 to T3 by

my thyroid?

A) I

think you need ot stop SOME of the adaptognens and herbals oyu

are taking. Thsi also answers your next question. I particularly

dislike anything that chelates as it removes iron and minerals

which you do nto want right now., aldo the adrenal supps that

are stimulating such as Ginseng and Gotu shoudl be discontinued.

Your bilirubin is worrisome. That is from poor liver finction.

It CAN be caused by low T3and high RT3 blocking the T3's action,

but I owuld definitly keep an eye on it and at least every 3

months run a liver enzyme panel which is AST and ALT as well as

bilirubin.

3. Are

any of my supplements etc likely to be working against me?

http://www.nthadrenalsweb.com http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://faqhelp.webs.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

http://artisticgrooming.net/

1.Could

my thyroid be somewhat normal in producing T4/T3 but the main

problem be the mis-conversion of T4 to Rt3 due to 20 years of

vegetarianism causing chronic low ferritin levels plus the

significant stress upon me in the last 5 years (which is when

my main symptoms first manifested) combining to produce my

resistance in the cell receptors?

2. Is

it conceivable that I can support adrenals hopefully with

Adaptogens, continue to raise my ferritin levels with iron

tabs, clear my RT3 with T3 only in 12 or so weeks then wean

off the T3 after clearance allowing my then supported adrenals

and ferritin levels to promote normal function of conversion

of T4 to T3 by my thyroid?

3. Are

any of my supplements etc likely to be working against me?

[Guest guest]

A male with low iron has only two causes that I'm aware of:Blood loss -- you may want to get a fecal occult blood test. You may also want to try a no sensitive seven diet to see if you can heal your intestines and stop the blood loss. http://dieting.postedpost.com/the-sensitive-seven-elimination-diet/ Inability to absorb -- unlikely, but, you can improve absorption by taking vitamin C with your iron and avoiding tea.Alan > 1.Could my thyroid be somewhat normal in producing T4/T3 but the main > problem be the mis-conversion of T4 to Rt3 due to 20 years of > vegetarianism causing chronic low ferritin levels plus the significant > stress upon me in the last 5 years (which is when my main symptoms first > manifested) combining to produce my resistance in the cell receptors?A) I absolutely think it is low ferritin that has caused this situation for you. I see no severe adrenal stress just low iron and thta is enoguh ot cause high RT3.> > 2. Is it conceivable that I can support adrenals hopefully with > Adaptogens, continue to raise my ferritin levels with iron tabs, clear > my RT3 with T3 only in 12 or so weeks then wean off the T3 after > clearance allowing my then supported adrenals and ferritin levels to > promote normal function of conversion of T4 to T3 by my thyroid?A) I think you need ot stop SOME of the adaptognens and herbals oyu are taking. Thsi also answers your next question. I particularly dislike anything that chelates as it removes iron and minerals which you do nto want right now., aldo the adrenal supps that are stimulating such as Ginseng and Gotu shoudl be discontinued. Your bilirubin is worrisome. That is from poor liver finction. It CAN be caused by low T3and high RT3 blocking the T3's action, but I owuld definitly keep an eye on it and at least every 3 months run a liver enzyme panel which is AST and ALT as well as bilirubin.> 3. Are any of my supplements etc likely to be working against me?

[Guest guest]

Hi Val thank you for taking the time to wade through my earlier post. I appreciate the advice but have a few questions for you.

Did you have a chance to have a look at my temp charts located here http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/files/Our%20Labs/GoldCoastAussieMan/

Do these back up your opinion that I do not have a severe adrenal stress problem as they seem to me to be a little unstable but I am not sure?

My aldosterone /renin test reveals that I have high renin, what does this imply and is the ratio in the acceptable range as it is low in the stated range?

Are my Potassium at 4.4 and Sodium at 140 to 142 what we need and does this effect the above test?

BTW the lab notes printed beside this test proclaim the range to be "assumes normal salt intake" when in fact I followed the advice here and salt fasted for 24 hours prior to the test. Not sure how one should then look at these results taking this into consideration?

My blood pressure readings are generally 110 to 125 over 65 to 75 but sometimes it can be 130 to 145 over 75 to 85 and very occassionaly blows out to 150 to 170 over 90. It seems that morning readings have more chance of being in the low range. I must admit that these readings are mostly taken after having just sat down and not after 15 minutes of seated relaxation. Having said that I just took my BP at 10.30pm and it is 119/61 HR 61. My resting HR is in the range 56 to 68 mostly.

When I do the stand up test for blood pressure I get a mixed result but mostly my systolic goes up (but not always) and the diastolic moves very little one way or another. What do you make of this scenario?

I have a history of raised Noradrenaline levels over the last few years. Do you know if this has any implications for me? Last reading 5.9 , earlier ones were 7.1 and 8 range <3.5

Not sure if this has any bearing but I notice in recent years that I have started grinding my teeth continuously, any ideas if this is related to Rt3?

Does no gallbladder have any implications here?

Have I done the right thing to cease my DHEA and testosterone supplementation until I rectify my RT3 problem?

The Chelorex I have been taking follows on from the removal of my mercury amalgams 2 years ago and apparently does not chelate iron. It removes 16 heavy metals, it is mainly Vit C, Vit E Magnesium, Selenium, Zinc, ALA Cracked Cell Chlorella etc Details here if needed http://www.scienceformulas.com/how.html

I take your point about stopping the Ginseng supps but what adoptogens do you recommend to support the adrenals whilst I prepare for the T3?

I will continue to monitor my billirubin and the other liver function tests. They were all ok at the last test except the billirubin.

I will retest my iron panel next week and if the ferritin is at 70 or near I would like to start the next step which I see as support adrenals and start T3. I will repost here for your confirmation. What T3 dosage would you see as being right for me and my situation?

Once again thank you for your kindness in taking on other peoples considerable problems including my own. We would obviously be lost without your generous guidance.

Wayne

> >> > 1.Could my thyroid be somewhat normal in producing T4/T3 but the main > > problem be the mis-conversion of T4 to Rt3 due to 20 years of > > vegetarianism causing chronic low ferritin levels plus the significant > > stress upon me in the last 5 years (which is when my main symptoms > > first manifested) combining to produce my resistance in the cell > > receptors?> >> > 2. Is it conceivable that I can support adrenals hopefully with > > Adaptogens, continue to raise my ferritin levels with iron tabs, clear > > my RT3 with T3 only in 12 or so weeks then wean off the T3 after > > clearance allowing my then supported adrenals and ferritin levels to > > promote normal function of conversion of T4 to T3 by my thyroid?> >> > 3. Are any of my supplements etc likely to be working against me?> >>

[Guest guest]

Looking over your labs I see more likely an lwo aldosteorne problem

than cortiosl. Though your cortiosl is low, it is not showing in your

symptoms as omne of the veyr firts woudl be inability ot exercise AT

ALL> The fatc you are still abel to run denies this being a huge

factor in spite of your temps and labs. Bottom line is your symptoms.

Low iron causes extreme adrenal stress. Ihtink if oyu stop the things

stressing your adrenlas (DHEA adn demineralizign chelators) and build

iron levels up and get on T3 once iron is a bit better i htink your

temps will stabilize. Several of your supplements I am not familiar

wiht, I woudl suggest doign a google search on them wiht the word

Cortisol and see hwich ones affect it and stop any thta do. Ginseng is

very much an adrenal stimulant which you shoudl NOT take wiht adrenlas

faltering. It could push you into adrenal fatigeu to the poitn coritls

DOES cuase you to lose that stamina and ability to exercise.

http://www.nthadrenalsweb.org/

http://www.health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.faqhelp.webs.com/

http://www.health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/

Hi Val thank you for taking the time to wade through my earlier

post. I appreciate the advice but have a few questions for you.

Did you have a chance to have a look at my temp charts located

here http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/files/Our%20Labs/GoldCoastAussieMan/

Do these back up your opinion that I do not have a severe adrenal

stress problem as they seem to me to be a little unstable but I am not

sure?

My aldosterone /renin test reveals that I have high renin, what

does this imply and is the ratio in the acceptable range as it is low

in the stated range?

Are my Potassium at 4.4 and Sodium at 140 to 142 what we need and

does this effect the above test?

BTW the lab notes printed beside this test proclaim the range to

be "assumes normal salt intake" when in fact I followed the advice here

and salt fasted for 24 hours prior to the test. Not sure how one should

then look at these results taking this into consideration?

My blood pressure readings are generally 110 to 125 over 65 to 75

but sometimes it can be 130 to 145 over 75 to 85 and very occassionaly

blows out to 150 to 170 over 90. It seems that morning readings have

more chance of being in the low range. I must admit that these readings

are mostly taken after having just sat down and not after 15 minutes of

seated relaxation. Having said that I just took my BP at

10.30pm and it is 119/61 HR 61. My resting HR is in the range 56 to 68

mostly.

When I do the stand up test for blood pressure I get a mixed

result but mostly my systolic goes up (but not always) and the

diastolic moves very little one way or another. What do you make of

this scenario?

I have a history of raised Noradrenaline levels over the last few

years. Do you know if this has any implications for me? Last reading

5.9 , earlier ones were 7.1 and 8 range <3.5

Not sure if this has any bearing but I notice in recent years that

I have started grinding my teeth continuously, any ideas if this is

related to Rt3?

Does no gallbladder have any implications here?

Have I done the right thing to cease my DHEA and testosterone

supplementation until I rectify my RT3 problem?

The Chelorex I have been taking follows on from the removal of my

mercury amalgams 2 years ago and apparently does not chelate iron. It

removes 16 heavy metals, it is mainly Vit C, Vit E Magnesium, Selenium,

Zinc, ALA Cracked Cell Chlorella etc Details here if needed http://www.scienceformulas.com/how.html

I take your point about stopping the Ginseng supps but what

adoptogens do you recommend to support the adrenals whilst I prepare

for the T3?

I will continue to monitor my billirubin and the other liver

function tests. They were all ok at the last test except the billirubin.

I will retest my iron panel next week and if the ferritin is at 70

or near I would like to start the next step which I see as support

adrenals and start T3. I will repost here for your confirmation. What

T3 dosage would you see as being right for me and my situation?

Once again thank you for your kindness in taking on other peoples

considerable problems including my own. We would obviously be lost

without your generous guidance.

Wayne

> >

> > 1.Could my thyroid be somewhat normal in producing T4/T3 but

the main

> > problem be the mis-conversion of T4 to Rt3 due to 20 years of

> > vegetarianism causing chronic low ferritin levels plus the

significant

> > stress upon me in the last 5 years (which is when my main

symptoms

> > first manifested) combining to produce my resistance in the

cell

> > receptors?

> >

> > 2. Is it conceivable that I can support adrenals hopefully

with

> > Adaptogens, continue to raise my ferritin levels with iron

tabs, clear

> > my RT3 with T3 only in 12 or so weeks then wean off the T 3

after

> > clearance allowing my then supported adrenals and ferritin

levels to

> > promote normal function of conversion of T4 to T3 by my

thyroid?

> >

> > 3. Are any of my supplements etc likely to be working against

me?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

POOP, I meant ot add that some Licorice root taken inthe AM night be

helpful to you provided oyu watch your BP as it can raise it.

http://www.nthadrenalsweb.org/

http://www.health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.faqhelp.webs.com/

http://www.health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/

Looking over your labs I see more likely an lwo aldosteorne problem

than cortiosl. Though your cortiosl is low, it is not showing in your

symptoms as omne of the veyr firts woudl be inability ot exercise AT

ALL> The fatc you are still abel to run denies this being a huge

factor in spite of your temps and labs. Bottom line is your symptoms.

Low iron causes extreme adrenal stress. Ihtink if oyu stop the things

stressing your adrenlas (DHEA adn demineralizign chelators) and build

iron levels up and get on T3 once iron is a bit better i htink your

temps will stabilize. Several of your supplements I am not familiar

wiht, I woudl suggest doign a google search on them wiht the word

Cortisol and see hwich ones affect it and stop any thta do. Ginseng is

very much an adrenal stimulant which you shoudl NOT take wiht adrenlas

faltering. It could push you into adrenal fatigeu to the poitn coritls

DOES cuase you to lose that stamina and ability to exercise.

http://www.nthadrenalsweb.org/

http://www.health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.faqhelp.webs.com/

http://www.health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/

Hi Val thank you for taking the time to wade through my earlier

post. I appreciate the advice but have a few questions for you.

Did you have a chance to have a look at my temp charts located

here http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/files/Our%20Labs/GoldCoastAussieMan/

Do these back up your opinion that I do not have a severe

adrenal

stress problem as they seem to me to be a little unstable but I am not

sure?

My aldosterone /renin test reveals that I have high renin, what

does this imply and is the ratio in the acceptable range as it is low

in the stated range?

Are my Potassium at 4.4 and Sodium at 140 to 142 what we need

and

does this effect the above test?

BTW the lab notes printed beside this test proclaim the range

to

be "assumes normal salt intake" when in fact I followed the advice here

and salt fasted for 24 hours prior to the test. Not sure how one should

then look at these results taking this into consideration?

My blood pressure readings are generally 110 to 125 over 65 to

75

but sometimes it can be 130 to 145 over 75 to 85 and very occassionaly

blows out to 150 to 170 over 90. It seems that morning readings have

more chance of being in the low range. I must admit that these readings

are mostly taken after having just sat down and not after 15 minutes of

seated relaxation. Having said that I just took my BP at

10.30pm and it is 119/61 HR 61. My resting HR is in the range 56 to 68

mostly.

When I do the stand up test for blood pressure I get a mixed

result but mostly my systolic goes up (but not always) and the

diastolic moves very little one way or another. What do you make of

this scenario?

I have a history of raised Noradrenaline levels over the last

few

years. Do you know if this has any implications for me? Last reading

5.9 , earlier ones were 7.1 and 8 range <3.5

Not sure if this has any bearing but I notice in recent years

that

I have started grinding my teeth continuously, any ideas if this is

related to Rt3?

Does no gallbladder have any implications here?

Have I done the right thing to cease my DHEA and testosterone

supplementation until I rectify my RT3 problem?

The Chelorex I have been taking follows on from the removal of

my

mercury amalgams 2 years ago and apparently does not chelate iron. It

removes 16 heavy metals, it is mainly Vit C, Vit E Magnesium, Selenium,

Zinc, ALA Cracked Cell Chlorella etc Details here if needed http://www.scienceformulas.com/how.html

I take your point about stopping the Ginseng supps but what

adoptogens do you recommend to support the adrenals whilst I prepare

for the T3?

I will continue to monitor my billirubin and the other liver

function tests. They were all ok at the last test except the billirubin.

I will retest my iron panel next week and if the ferritin is at

70

or near I would like to start the next step which I see as support

adrenals and start T3. I will repost here for your confirmation. What

T3 dosage would you see as being right for me and my situation?

Once again thank you for your kindness in taking on other

peoples

considerable problems including my own. We would obviously be lost

without your generous guidance.

Wayne

> >

> > 1.Could my thyroid be somewhat normal in producing T4/T3 but

the main

> > problem be the mis-conversion of T4 to Rt3 due to 20 years of

> > vegetarianism causing chronic low ferritin levels plus the

significant

> > stress upon me in the last 5 years (which is when my main

symptoms

> > first manifested) combining to produce my resistance in the

cell

> > receptors?

> >

> > 2. Is it conceivable that I can support adrenals hopefully

with

> > Adaptogens, continue to raise my ferritin levels with iron

tabs, clear

> > my RT3 with T3 only in 12 or so weeks then wean off the T 3

after

> > clearance allowing my then supported adrenals and ferritin

levels to

> > promote normal function of conversion of T4 to T3 by my

thyroid?

> >

> > 3. Are any of my supplements etc likely to be working against

me?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Val

I am working on my iron as suggested and hopefully this will correct the other

inbalances.

What is the desired range of Aldosterone that I should aim for and what effects

the level so I can there? currently 440 range (100-950) ratio 7

What about my high Renin?

Apart from Licorice root is Rhodiola and or Ashwaganda helful in supporting my

adrenals and if so what is the dosage that you would suggest?

I will stop the Ginseng as suggested.

Are the following supportive or counter productive for my RT3/Adrenal problems

Vit C, Vit E, Zinc, Selenium, Magnesium?

Thank you

Wayne

> >> > >

> >> > > 1.Could my thyroid be somewhat normal in producing T4/T3 but the

> >> main

> >> > > problem be the mis-conversion of T4 to Rt3 due to 20 years of

> >> > > vegetarianism causing chronic low ferritin levels plus the

> >> significant

> >> > > stress upon me in the last 5 years (which is when my main symptoms

> >> > > first manifested) combining to produce my resistance in the cell

> >> > > receptors?

> >> > >

> >> > > 2. Is it conceivable that I can support adrenals hopefully with

> >> > > Adaptogens, continue to raise my ferritin levels with iron tabs,

> >> clear

> >> > > my RT3 with T3 only in 12 or so weeks then wean off the T 3 after

> >> > > clearance allowing my then supported adrenals and ferritin levels to

> >> > > promote normal function of conversion of T4 to T3 by my thyroid?

> >> > >

> >> > > 3. Are any of my supplements etc likely to be working against me?

> >> > >

> >> >

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Alan

Thank you for your input.

I have had 7 Fecal Occult stool tests over the last 5 years and all are normal

thankfully. Most recently was May this year.

I have been taking Vit C 1000mg now 500mg so maybe not enough. I have only

recently started supplementing with iron at the rate of 20mg per day and

sometimes 40 mg but not often.My ferritin has increased from 40 to now 61 and I

will be testing again next week so fingers crossed.

I checked the link out re diet which is interesting. I am already eating a very

restricted vegetarian diet (with some eggs) and I suspect 20 years of no red

meat is the cause of my low ferritin but I do remain open to other

possibilities.

Once again thank you for your input, I guess that is where the strength of a

forum lies with it's many contributors who mostly all have something to add to

the knowledge pool.

Wayne

>

> > 1.Could my thyroid be somewhat normal in producing T4/T3 but the main

> > problem be the mis-conversion of T4 to Rt3 due to 20 years of

> > vegetarianism causing chronic low ferritin levels plus the significant

> > stress upon me in the last 5 years (which is when my main symptoms

> first

> > manifested) combining to produce my resistance in the cell receptors?

>

> A) I absolutely think it is low ferritin that has caused this situation

> for you. I see no severe adrenal stress just low iron and thta is

> enoguh

> ot cause high RT3.

> >

> > 2. Is it conceivable that I can support adrenals hopefully with

> > Adaptogens, continue to raise my ferritin levels with iron tabs, clear

> > my RT3 with T3 only in 12 or so weeks then wean off the T3 after

> > clearance allowing my then supported adrenals and ferritin levels to

> > promote normal function of conversion of T4 to T3 by my thyroid?

>

> A) I think you need ot stop SOME of the adaptognens and herbals oyu are

> taking. Thsi also answers your next question. I particularly dislike

> anything that chelates as it removes iron and minerals which you do nto

> want right now., aldo the adrenal supps that are stimulating such as

> Ginseng and Gotu shoudl be discontinued. Your bilirubin is worrisome.

> That is from poor liver finction. It CAN be caused by low T3and high RT3

> blocking the T3's action, but I owuld definitly keep an eye on it and at

> least every 3 months run a liver enzyme panel which is AST and ALT as

> well as bilirubin.

>

> > 3. Are any of my supplements etc likely to be working against me?

>