Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 >Just curious about the infallibility of temps in resistance. I think they are fallible, low temperature = a problem, normal temperature need not mean there isn't one. > >I am clearly hypothyroid and am beginning my T3 tomorrow. Sounds good > >However, my temps have always been normal and don't fluctuate much. My body temp in the morning is a bit low but generally it is normal. Sounds like you are not too far out then >My thyroid labs are quite high FT3 5.3 (3.5-6.5) and FT4 18.1 (10-19)so i am thinking that reasonably high thyroid in my blood might be evening out my temps. Was that on Natural?? The " top of range " FT4 tends to indicate that things may be converting to reverse T3 rather than normal T3. > >All other tests inc ferritin, D, cortisol are fine. Sounds good, you might want to do a full iron panel, in particular the % aturation is an indicator with 35% being a target, there have been times Ferritin was OK and this low. Looking at those labs you are probably on Natural? how much are you on?? Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Nick, i'm not on natural or any thyroid at all. Many thyroid experts believe temps aren't always correct. In a hypothyroid state people can manifest differently in order to cope. Increased adrenaline etc is just one. I think what is common in the state is SENSITIVITY to cold. For example, i am fine in a heated room in winter but as soon as things get a bit cold my whole body freezes whilst other people cope much better. My ACTH stimulation test was perfect so my adrenals work fine. I believe poor circulation to be the cause of this from hypoT. I have a pretty strong case of thyroid resistance. When thyroid is as high as mine in the blood (making me very skinny) i am thinking that this can help to raise temperature although superficially. > > >Just curious about the infallibility of temps in resistance. > > I think they are fallible, low temperature = a problem, normal > temperature need not mean there isn't one. > > > >I am clearly hypothyroid and am beginning my T3 tomorrow. > > Sounds good > > > >However, my temps have always been normal and don't fluctuate much. My body temp in the morning is a bit low but generally it is normal. > > Sounds like you are not too far out then > > >My thyroid labs are quite high FT3 5.3 (3.5-6.5) and FT4 18.1 (10-19)so i am thinking that reasonably high thyroid in my blood might be evening out my temps. > > Was that on Natural?? The " top of range " FT4 tends to indicate that > things may be converting to reverse T3 rather than normal T3. > > > >All other tests inc ferritin, D, cortisol are fine. > > Sounds good, you might want to do a full iron panel, in particular the > % aturation is an indicator with 35% being a target, there have been > times Ferritin was OK and this low. > > Looking at those labs you are probably on Natural? how much are you > on?? > > > Nick > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 If we look at my symptoms primarily being Brain fog, cold/heat intolerance, depression, cold hands and feet and fatigue. They strongly indicate hypo. Then we look at other markers. Creatinine 3000 in urine (1000-2000), Growth Hormone in urine 100 (200-1000, T3 below 2000 in urine (1300-5300), All adrenal markers optimal in urine. High creatinine is hypo, low growth hormone is hypo, and T3 is borderline low. So from this along with my RT3/T3 ratio = 10. I am 100% certain i am hypothyroid. If you are suggesting i am hyperthyroid then why is my TSH 2.4? If you look at the clinical description of Thyroid resistance it is characterized by HIGH blood thyroid levels and a normal or high TSH. The key to this is that the TSH is NOT supressed. - I fit this pretty well - one of the KEY markers of this clinical resistance is LOW BODY WEIGHT. So i realise you are looking at the cliche's markers of hyper and hypo but i am not someone who has just jumped on here with no idea. I've done years of research and experimentation to find out the cause behind my poor health. I don't profess to know it all. That's why i am here, i need to try and overcome my hypothyroidism even though it is a very unique version. > > >Nick, i'm not on natural or any thyroid at all. > > Then your numbers are high, are you sure that you are hypo????? > > Most people would love their labs to be there. > > > >Many thyroid experts believe temps aren't always correct. In a hypothyroid state people can manifest differently in order to cope. Increased adrenaline etc is just one. > > Nothing is perfect, low temperature is a definite marker of problems, > normal needn't mean there isn't a problem. > > >I think what is common in the state is SENSITIVITY to cold. For example, i am fine in a heated room in winter but as soon as things get a bit cold my whole body freezes whilst other people cope much better. My ACTH stimulation test was perfect so my adrenals work fine. I believe poor circulation to be the cause of this from hypoT. > > It takes more than an ACTH stim to prove adrenals are ok. Cold > sensitivity is a common adrenal marker. > > > >I have a pretty strong case of thyroid resistance. When thyroid is as high as mine in the blood (making me very skinny) i am thinking that this can help to raise temperature although superficially. > > Skinny build and high labs does not sound hypo. > > Could you actually be hyper in terms of your own production (hence the > skinny build) and this have triggered RT3 as a protective mechanism > causing the effective hypo symptoms. The resistance is induced by your > own over production taking hyper to hypo?? > > Nick > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 >If we look at my symptoms primarily being Brain fog, cold/heat intolerance, depression, cold hands and feet and fatigue. They strongly indicate hypo. Yes > >Then we look at other markers. Creatinine 3000 in urine (1000-2000), Growth Hormone in urine 100 (200-1000, T3 below 2000 in urine (1300-5300), All adrenal markers optimal in urine. High creatinine is hypo, low growth hormone is hypo, and T3 is borderline low. > These were the labs I remembered > >> >My thyroid labs are quite high FT3 5.3 (3.5-6.5) and FT4 18.1 (10-19)so i am thinking that reasonably high thyroid in my blood might be evening out my temps. FT3 and FT4 both top of range. That is raising warning bells, that ft4 is too high, over mid range tends to equal RT3 production. >So from this along with my RT3/T3 ratio = 10. I am 100% certain i am hypothyroid. Ratio says RT3 causing resistance yes > >If you are suggesting i am hyperthyroid then why is my TSH 2.4? > Could be, if something along the hypothalamus/pituitary area was screwy then it could produce a TSH of 2.4 and in turn that would make you hyper! TSH is what drives thyroid and if yours is healthy but being over driven then that would cause high RT3 and hypo symptoms. >If you look at the clinical description of Thyroid resistance it is characterized by HIGH blood thyroid levels and a normal or high TSH. The key to this is that the TSH is NOT supressed. There are lots of forms of resistance, I suffer badly from it myself so know one of them. > >- I fit this pretty well - one of the KEY markers of this clinical resistance is LOW BODY WEIGHT. Not one I have come across >So i realise you are looking at the cliche's markers of hyper and hypo but i am not someone who has just jumped on here with no idea. I've done years of research and experimentation to find out the cause behind my poor health. FT4 and FT3 top of range, that suggests to me that your body has produced too much T4, technically hyper, and this has converted to RT3 sending you hypo clinically by symptoms. > >I don't profess to know it all. That's why i am here, i need to try and overcome my hypothyroidism even though it is a very unique version. There are lots of [people who have developed RT3 through supplementing T4 or Natural heavily trying to overcome resistance (I am one) and that's an artificially induced version of what I think you might have, my gut feel is you have a hypothalamus/pituitary issue as a starting point to the chain . If that's the case supplementing T3 MIGHT reduce TSH enough to lower T4 production and let the RT3 clear. It MIGHT be that you have something wrong in the feedback loop and that you have too high a TSH for the circulating numbers and it won't lower with applied T3. In this case you need to block the T4 and then replace the T3. I am speculating, it fits the labs I have seen Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 >If we look at my symptoms primarily being Brain fog, cold/heat intolerance, depression, cold hands and feet and fatigue. They strongly indicate hypo. Yes > >Then we look at other markers. Creatinine 3000 in urine (1000-2000), Growth Hormone in urine 100 (200-1000, T3 below 2000 in urine (1300-5300), All adrenal markers optimal in urine. High creatinine is hypo, low growth hormone is hypo, and T3 is borderline low. > These were the labs I remembered > >> >My thyroid labs are quite high FT3 5.3 (3.5-6.5) and FT4 18.1 (10-19)so i am thinking that reasonably high thyroid in my blood might be evening out my temps. FT3 and FT4 both top of range. That is raising warning bells, that ft4 is too high, over mid range tends to equal RT3 production. >So from this along with my RT3/T3 ratio = 10. I am 100% certain i am hypothyroid. Ratio says RT3 causing resistance yes > >If you are suggesting i am hyperthyroid then why is my TSH 2.4? > Could be, if something along the hypothalamus/pituitary area was screwy then it could produce a TSH of 2.4 and in turn that would make you hyper! TSH is what drives thyroid and if yours is healthy but being over driven then that would cause high RT3 and hypo symptoms. >If you look at the clinical description of Thyroid resistance it is characterized by HIGH blood thyroid levels and a normal or high TSH. The key to this is that the TSH is NOT supressed. There are lots of forms of resistance, I suffer badly from it myself so know one of them. > >- I fit this pretty well - one of the KEY markers of this clinical resistance is LOW BODY WEIGHT. Not one I have come across >So i realise you are looking at the cliche's markers of hyper and hypo but i am not someone who has just jumped on here with no idea. I've done years of research and experimentation to find out the cause behind my poor health. FT4 and FT3 top of range, that suggests to me that your body has produced too much T4, technically hyper, and this has converted to RT3 sending you hypo clinically by symptoms. > >I don't profess to know it all. That's why i am here, i need to try and overcome my hypothyroidism even though it is a very unique version. There are lots of [people who have developed RT3 through supplementing T4 or Natural heavily trying to overcome resistance (I am one) and that's an artificially induced version of what I think you might have, my gut feel is you have a hypothalamus/pituitary issue as a starting point to the chain . If that's the case supplementing T3 MIGHT reduce TSH enough to lower T4 production and let the RT3 clear. It MIGHT be that you have something wrong in the feedback loop and that you have too high a TSH for the circulating numbers and it won't lower with applied T3. In this case you need to block the T4 and then replace the T3. I am speculating, it fits the labs I have seen Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Possibly a pituitary/hypothamalus issue might be involved. But there is no tumor which Val suggested not long back. I doubt it. The way i know that my pituitary is working well and the signals aren't confused is because last year i tried taking high doses of kelp for iodine. About 3 weeks in i started getting way worse and my depression and brain fog tripled to the point where i just wanted to die right then and there. When i had my TSH taken at this time it was 5.05 and after stopping the Kelp it came down to 2.6 and i felt a fair bit better. I honestly think my TSH is over 2 because my body wants more thyroid. If you haven't seen the link between more severe forms of resistance and low body weight here is an article http://www.annals.org/content/123/8/572.full.pdf+html I don't believe i started out hyper and became hypo. I've always had these hypo symptoms most of my life. I think my labs are high because i must have some genetic resistance in the receptors. I've had to produce more thyroid in order to get more to the cell. What i can't explain is why i over reacted to a low dose of 6.25mcg T3 today. Do you have any idea - aside from blaming anything else like adrenal/iron etc? > > >If we look at my symptoms primarily being Brain fog, cold/heat intolerance, depression, cold hands and feet and fatigue. They strongly indicate hypo. > > Yes > > > >Then we look at other markers. Creatinine 3000 in urine (1000-2000), Growth Hormone in urine 100 (200-1000, T3 below 2000 in urine (1300-5300), All adrenal markers optimal in urine. High creatinine is hypo, low growth hormone is hypo, and T3 is borderline low. > > > > These were the labs I remembered > > > > >> >My thyroid labs are quite high FT3 5.3 (3.5-6.5) and FT4 18.1 (10-19)so i am thinking that reasonably high thyroid in my blood might be evening out my temps. > > FT3 and FT4 both top of range. > > That is raising warning bells, that ft4 is too high, over mid range > tends to equal RT3 production. > > >So from this along with my RT3/T3 ratio = 10. I am 100% certain i am hypothyroid. > > Ratio says RT3 causing resistance yes > > > >If you are suggesting i am hyperthyroid then why is my TSH 2.4? > > > Could be, if something along the hypothalamus/pituitary area was > screwy then it could produce a TSH of 2.4 and in turn that would make > you hyper! > > TSH is what drives thyroid and if yours is healthy but being over > driven then that would cause high RT3 and hypo symptoms. > > >If you look at the clinical description of Thyroid resistance it is characterized by HIGH blood thyroid levels and a normal or high TSH. The key to this is that the TSH is NOT supressed. > > There are lots of forms of resistance, I suffer badly from it myself > so know one of them. > > > >- I fit this pretty well - one of the KEY markers of this clinical resistance is LOW BODY WEIGHT. > > Not one I have come across > > >So i realise you are looking at the cliche's markers of hyper and hypo but i am not someone who has just jumped on here with no idea. I've done years of research and experimentation to find out the cause behind my poor health. > > FT4 and FT3 top of range, that suggests to me that your body has > produced too much T4, technically hyper, and this has converted to RT3 > sending you hypo clinically by symptoms. > > > > >I don't profess to know it all. That's why i am here, i need to try and overcome my hypothyroidism even though it is a very unique version. > > There are lots of [people who have developed RT3 through supplementing > T4 or Natural heavily trying to overcome resistance (I am one) and > that's an artificially induced version of what I think you might have, > my gut feel is you have a hypothalamus/pituitary issue as a starting > point to the chain . > > If that's the case supplementing T3 MIGHT reduce TSH enough to lower > T4 production and let the RT3 clear. > > It MIGHT be that you have something wrong in the feedback loop and > that you have too high a TSH for the circulating numbers and it won't > lower with applied T3. In this case you need to block the T4 and then > replace the T3. > > I am speculating, it fits the labs I have seen > > Nick > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Possibly a pituitary/hypothamalus issue might be involved. But there is no tumor which Val suggested not long back. I doubt it. The way i know that my pituitary is working well and the signals aren't confused is because last year i tried taking high doses of kelp for iodine. About 3 weeks in i started getting way worse and my depression and brain fog tripled to the point where i just wanted to die right then and there. When i had my TSH taken at this time it was 5.05 and after stopping the Kelp it came down to 2.6 and i felt a fair bit better. I honestly think my TSH is over 2 because my body wants more thyroid. If you haven't seen the link between more severe forms of resistance and low body weight here is an article http://www.annals.org/content/123/8/572.full.pdf+html I don't believe i started out hyper and became hypo. I've always had these hypo symptoms most of my life. I think my labs are high because i must have some genetic resistance in the receptors. I've had to produce more thyroid in order to get more to the cell. What i can't explain is why i over reacted to a low dose of 6.25mcg T3 today. Do you have any idea - aside from blaming anything else like adrenal/iron etc? > > >If we look at my symptoms primarily being Brain fog, cold/heat intolerance, depression, cold hands and feet and fatigue. They strongly indicate hypo. > > Yes > > > >Then we look at other markers. Creatinine 3000 in urine (1000-2000), Growth Hormone in urine 100 (200-1000, T3 below 2000 in urine (1300-5300), All adrenal markers optimal in urine. High creatinine is hypo, low growth hormone is hypo, and T3 is borderline low. > > > > These were the labs I remembered > > > > >> >My thyroid labs are quite high FT3 5.3 (3.5-6.5) and FT4 18.1 (10-19)so i am thinking that reasonably high thyroid in my blood might be evening out my temps. > > FT3 and FT4 both top of range. > > That is raising warning bells, that ft4 is too high, over mid range > tends to equal RT3 production. > > >So from this along with my RT3/T3 ratio = 10. I am 100% certain i am hypothyroid. > > Ratio says RT3 causing resistance yes > > > >If you are suggesting i am hyperthyroid then why is my TSH 2.4? > > > Could be, if something along the hypothalamus/pituitary area was > screwy then it could produce a TSH of 2.4 and in turn that would make > you hyper! > > TSH is what drives thyroid and if yours is healthy but being over > driven then that would cause high RT3 and hypo symptoms. > > >If you look at the clinical description of Thyroid resistance it is characterized by HIGH blood thyroid levels and a normal or high TSH. The key to this is that the TSH is NOT supressed. > > There are lots of forms of resistance, I suffer badly from it myself > so know one of them. > > > >- I fit this pretty well - one of the KEY markers of this clinical resistance is LOW BODY WEIGHT. > > Not one I have come across > > >So i realise you are looking at the cliche's markers of hyper and hypo but i am not someone who has just jumped on here with no idea. I've done years of research and experimentation to find out the cause behind my poor health. > > FT4 and FT3 top of range, that suggests to me that your body has > produced too much T4, technically hyper, and this has converted to RT3 > sending you hypo clinically by symptoms. > > > > >I don't profess to know it all. That's why i am here, i need to try and overcome my hypothyroidism even though it is a very unique version. > > There are lots of [people who have developed RT3 through supplementing > T4 or Natural heavily trying to overcome resistance (I am one) and > that's an artificially induced version of what I think you might have, > my gut feel is you have a hypothalamus/pituitary issue as a starting > point to the chain . > > If that's the case supplementing T3 MIGHT reduce TSH enough to lower > T4 production and let the RT3 clear. > > It MIGHT be that you have something wrong in the feedback loop and > that you have too high a TSH for the circulating numbers and it won't > lower with applied T3. In this case you need to block the T4 and then > replace the T3. > > I am speculating, it fits the labs I have seen > > Nick > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 I honestly think my TSH is over 2 because my body wants more thyroid. Incorrect. It wants mroe T3,not " thyroid " . Thsi si typical in resistance forom What 4ever cause. Low oron causes reoisstacne nbt ti also pushes TSH WAY too lwo. Low or high cortiosl causes resistance and does NOT always cause the TSH to be supressed. High cortils couild cause this kinfd of reoistance easily. Can you post your saliva cortils labs WITH ranges? We really need full adn accurate picture to be able to help you. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://faqhelp.webs.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/ http://artisticgrooming.net/ > I honestly think my TSH is over 2 because my body wants more thyroid. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 I honestly think my TSH is over 2 because my body wants more thyroid. Incorrect. It wants mroe T3,not " thyroid " . Thsi si typical in resistance forom What 4ever cause. Low oron causes reoisstacne nbt ti also pushes TSH WAY too lwo. Low or high cortiosl causes resistance and does NOT always cause the TSH to be supressed. High cortils couild cause this kinfd of reoistance easily. Can you post your saliva cortils labs WITH ranges? We really need full adn accurate picture to be able to help you. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://faqhelp.webs.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/ http://artisticgrooming.net/ > I honestly think my TSH is over 2 because my body wants more thyroid. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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