Re:Lethal Lee b12 shots and iron labs

[Guest guest]

Lethal Lee,

Thanks for the link - I printed for future reference.

Re:B12 I don't think I have SEVERE b12 deficiency and I don't have anemia. My

latest lab on 3/5/10 was 398 (220-1000) that doctor didn't think I needed

supplementing. She said we tried it before (many years ago) and it didn't work.

Don't you love it when a doctor gives up on you? When I asked about taking a b

complex she said i could try but it probably won't do much. So I went to diff

doctor and she gave me a b12 script -I have had 9 weekly shots so far.

Do you think I should skip the next one for my iron test? Or won't it make a

difference??

Here's another question for you since you seem to be the iron expert around

here:) I never had any symptoms of low iron until AFTER I started

supplementing. Here are my labs 6/29

iron 107 (35-150)

tibc 403 (250-450)

iron sat 27 (15-55)

ferritin 40 (10-291)

On 6/13 I started 180mg blue bonnet iron bisglycinate/split in 2 doses on empty

stomach w/1000 vitc. I have been very short of breath - such a shallowness to

my breathing that it scares me. One day I felt like I was taking my last

breath. I have a lot of chest pressure as well. NEVER EVER had anything like

this before. Have had several consults with Val and she started me on t3 at 2.5

w/ 2.5 increases. My rt3 ratio is 4. Event hough ferritin wasn't 50 she felt

ok b/c iron should be 110 mine is 107. Saturation of 35 is optimal. Mine is

27.

All these chest/breath symptoms got worse with each dose. Could feel with in

1/2 to 1 hour of taking t3. Sounds crazy - I know - b/c it takes hours to

metabolize and doses were 5 hrs apart.

When I called her again she increased it back up to 180 b/c of shortness of

breath symptoms.... Also told me to eat something with iron- it might slow down

absorbtion but sometimes iron can be brutal. And I went down in t3 to 10mcg day

and am holding.

Symptoms continue - although somewhat less oppressive than before. Sometimes it

feels a little like a have pneumonia.

It's hard to know what's causing what. Right now I'm self treating and looking

for a doc. I just don't understand how I could have NO symptoms of low iron and

then only AFTER I begin replenishing my body with iron do I have symptoms. Can

it work this way?? Any advice?

Thanks so much! Holly

> >

> > hello-

> > I recently read a post (sorry I can't find) that in order to get a true read

with iron labs you need to stop vitc and b12 for 5 days. I get b12 shots every

Saturday. I'm due to get blood on tues 8/31 - should I skip the 28th shot? Not

sure if skipping b12 pertains to shots or if it was meant for suppplements only.

Can you ever get a true read when you are getting shots?

> > Thanks!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Holly,

I am wondering IF you may be getting low on Folate (RBC Folate is preferred

test), B6 or Potassium?

What were your levels of those BEFORE starting B12 shots?

Have you tested them SINCE starting the shots?

If you were low on RBC & Hg then Potassium & Iron can be used up to make more

(thus lowering levels). Also IF you are low on Folate which is also needed for

RBC then you can create a deficiency if you do not supplement.

Did you start on a B Complex? If so which one, how much & when?

I would strongly advise you to start a good bioactive one ASAP.

One should NEVER supp B12 without supping Folate (preferably ACTIVE Folate which

is NOT Folic Acid). Should always be a B Multi too as need some of all the B's

as they work synergistically.

That B12 level is pretty abysmal actually.

In Japan & most of Asia would have been dxed as deficient & started on shots

immediately. Remember too that the standard B12 Serum test is a TOTAL B12. you

can have great looking levels but IF the ACTIVE B12 is low you will still be

deficient at cellular level. Then there are possible problems with B12 transport

such as Transcobalamin deficiencies so you can't utilise much if any what you

take.

What type of B12 is in your shots & which brand (make sure has NO bad

preservatives in it) are you on & how much B12?

Ever had CBC with differential done?

Had one done since starting B12 & Iron.

I'm wondering too about your Copper & Zinc levels?

Note RBC Zinc & RBC Copper are the preferred tests

Supping one in isolation or at too high a level may deplete the others.

I read a lot on the Pernicious Anemia Forum You need to pay to become a member

in order to post but is free to read posts & stickies.

http://www.pernicious-anaemia-society.org/phpbb/

As for the test coming up its up to you. If it was me I would skip the shot on

the weekend & continue as normal the following weekend.

Your results below..

question were the protocols followed?

fasting, early am, stopping supps correct number of days before,no current or

recent illness or inflammatory condition/injury etc?

If so I interpret the results differently

I don't think Iron results mean much EXCEPT they are needed to calculate

Saturation & TIBC.

Your saturation I consider good (I think 30% is ideal).

Ferritin may be a low & I base that on the high in range result for your TIBC.

That said IF protocols weren't followed then Iron Saturation & TIBC are not

accurate anyway.

I also never interpret/analyse Iron status without also testing Inflammation

Markers & CBC at same time as Iron Panel.

Shortness of breath can be many things. Not least of all being HYPO.

If you are on low doses of T3 you will likely be VERY Hypo especially with high

Rt3 and/or a bad ratio. Hypo causes muscle weakness including diaphram. The

other common culprit can be electrolytes (Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium &

sometimes Calcium).

Lethal Lee

> > >

> > > hello-

> > > I recently read a post (sorry I can't find) that in order to get a true

read with iron labs you need to stop vitc and b12 for 5 days. I get b12 shots

every Saturday. I'm due to get blood on tues 8/31 - should I skip the 28th

shot? Not sure if skipping b12 pertains to shots or if it was meant for

suppplements only. Can you ever get a true read when you are getting shots?

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

398 is very, very low. Can you tell us how much in each shot? And you are only

getting the shot once a week?

Have you had a CBC test recently? If so, could you look up your MCV?

Pam

> > >

> > > hello-

> > > I recently read a post (sorry I can't find) that in order to get a true

read with iron labs you need to stop vitc and b12 for 5 days. I get b12 shots

every Saturday. I'm due to get blood on tues 8/31 - should I skip the 28th

shot? Not sure if skipping b12 pertains to shots or if it was meant for

suppplements only. Can you ever get a true read when you are getting shots?

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Lethal Lee,

Wow- thanks for spending such time on me. It's a lot of info and I feel a little overwhelmed. I posted answers directly in your text with different font hoping it will be easier to for you to follow. I greatly appreciate your time!! One problem I have is living in NY - we can't get our own tests here.

I am wondering IF you may be getting low on Folate (RBC Folate is preferred test), B6 or Potassium? Never done folate or B6. Potassium was low. Does low folate cause chest pressure/short of breath?

What were your levels of those BEFORE starting B12 shots? potassium b4 shots was 3.5 (3.5-5.1)Have you tested them SINCE starting the shots? currently 4.1 (3.5-5.1)- taking 20 mEq kdur dailyIf you were low on RBC & Hg then Potassium & Iron can be used up to make more (thus lowering levels). Also IF you are low on Folate which is also needed for RBC then you can create a deficiency if you do not supplement. Do you mean red blood count? What is Hg? I'm confused by this section - can you explain more please?Did you start on a B Complex? If so which one, much & when? Balanced b100 2 per day. Contains Thiamin 100mg, Ribloflavin 100mg, Niacin(as niacinamide)

100mg, Vit b6 (as (pyridocine hci) 100mg,, Folic Acid 400 mcg, B12 (as cobalamin),100mcg, Biotin 100mcg, Pantothenic Acid(as calcium panthenate) 100 mg, Choline (as choline bitartate) 100mg, Inosito; 100mg, PABA as para aminobenzoic acid 50mg.

I would strongly advise you to start a good bioactive one ASAP. Can you give a specific brand and amt to take? Should I take even if I can't get tested for a while?One should NEVER supp B12 without supping Folate (preferably ACTIVE Folate which is NOT Folic Acid). What do you recommend? Amt?

Should always be a B Multi too as need some of all the B's as they work synergistically. Does my b100 count as a bmulti?That B12 level is pretty abysmal actually.In Japan & most of Asia would have been dxed as deficient & started on shots immediately. Remember too that the standard B12 Serum test is a TOTAL B12. you can have great looking levels but IF the ACTIVE B12 is low you will still be deficient at cellular level. Then there are possible problems with B12 transport such as Transcobalamin deficiencies so you can't utilise much if any what you take. Is there a transcobalamin test?What type of B12 is in your shots & which brand (make sure has NO bad preservatives in it) are you on & how much B12?

Drug:Cyanocobalamin 1000mcg/ml Identification:solution Generic name: Cyanocobalamin-injection Common brand names:Cobal, Cyanoject,Cyomin, Vibal,Vit b-12.

I don't see anything telling me what the ingedients are to know if there are BAD preservatives? Are you familiar with this one I'm on? Ever had CBC with differential done? Yes but it's from 3/5 should I still post or is it irrelevant?

Had one done since starting B12 & Iron. No - I have a lab slip to get cbc and full iron +ferritin but it doesn't say cbc diff?I'm wondering too about your Copper & Zinc levels? Never had done- someone just brought up that it would be great if I could do a heavy metal test? Not sure if these are in it? Again- I can't just order in NY. If I find a dr.- how do I justify to them I NEED this done?Note RBC Zinc & RBC Copper are the preferred testsSupping one in isolation or at too high a level may deplete the others.I read a lot on the Pernicious Anemia Forum You need to pay to become a member in order to post but is free to read posts & stickies.http://www.pernicious-anaemia-society.org/phpbb/As for the test coming up its up to you. If it

was me I would skip the shot on the weekend & continue as normal the following weekend. I'll skip my next shot. Your results below..question were the protocols followed? Test done at 8:30 am. Had few bites applesauce b4- they said I didn't need to fast. Now I know better. Test was done before iron supps even started. I have "fibro and chronic fatigue" otherwise no illness. fasting, early am, stopping supps correct number of days before,no current or recent illness or inflammatory condition/injury etc?If so I interpret the results differentlyI don't think Iron results mean much EXCEPT they are needed to calculate Saturation & TIBC.Your saturation I consider good (I think 30% is ideal).Ferritin may be a low & I base

that on the high in range result for your TIBC.That said IF protocols weren't followed then Iron Saturation & TIBC are not accurate anyway.I also never interpret/analyse Iron status without also testing Inflammation Markers & CBC at same time as Iron Panel. What do you mean by inflammation marker? Shortness of breath can be many things. Not least of all being HYPO. What's strange about this is I NEVER had chest issues, shallow breathing before. Not even on Synthroid. My doc said if I stop synthroid entirely I'll just get sicker. I stopped anyway. Now I feel confused and a little scared. My rt3 ratio is 4. AWFUL! I'm only taking 2.5mcg 4xday and holding thinking issues were maybe iron related and I needed to get up first. If I read you

right- I don't get the impression you think iron is my issue here. Do you recommend I try to increase t3 again?If you are on low doses of T3 you will likely be VERY Hypo especially with high Rt3 and/or a bad ratio. Hypo causes muscle weakness including diaphram. The other common culprit can be electrolytes (Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium & sometimes Calcium). Since I'm taking potassium I have checked electolytes. Most recent labs are 8/18 sodium 141 (136-145) potassium 4.1 (3.5-5.1) calcium 9.1 (8.6-10.2) magnesium 2.2 (1.6-2.6)

RBC magnesium from6/29 4.1(4.0-6.4) and VIT D 25 HYDROXY 43 (30-80)

In addition to b12 shots, iron 18omg, vitc 2k, potassium 20mEq, and b100 I also take fish oil, malic magnesium, vitd3 6k, calcium 600mg, 1 tsp sea salt, primadophilus, and ambien. Oh and 35mg hydrocortisone.

This is a lot of info - I look forward to your input. Thanks again for your help!! I am trying to make sense of all this... it overwhelmes me. I have literally been working on this response for hours. Nothing comes easily to me. I can't tell you how much i appreciate your guidance in this journey!!

Holly

Lethal Lee> > >> > > hello-> > > I recently read a post (sorry I can't find) that in order to get a true read with iron labs you need

to stop vitc and b12 for 5 days. I get b12 shots every Saturday. I'm due to get blood on tues 8/31 - should I skip the 28th shot? Not sure if skipping b12 pertains to shots or if it was meant for suppplements only. Can you ever get a true read when you are getting shots? > > > Thanks!> > >> >>