Re:BUMPBUMPLethal Lee b12 shots and iron labs

[Guest guest]

Hi Hollie,

Holly (Holly Protz RT3 Yahoo Group)

I am wondering IF you may be getting low on Folate (RBC Folate is preferred

test), B6 or Potassium?

Never done Folate or B6.

Potassium was low.

Should NEVER start B12 without knowing Folate status!!!

What were your levels of those BEFORE starting B12 shots?

Potassium b4 shots was 3.5 (3.5-5.1) **yikes way too LOW!!!1

Have you tested them SINCE starting the shots?

Potassium taking 20 mEq KDur daily currently 4.1 (3.5-5.1) **SUBOPTIMAL

Sorry that's not even MIDRANGE!!! I consider optimal top 25% at least which

starts at 4.7.

I would be doubling the Potassium supps as well as adding active Folate.

Does low Folate cause chest pressure/short of breath?

Folate, B12 & Iron are ALL needed for red blood cell production. Being low in

ANY will cause low RBC, low oxygenation of RBC will cause shortness of breath

If you were low on RBC & Hg then Potassium & Iron can be used up to make more

(thus lowering levels). Also IF you are low on Folate which is also needed for

RBC then you can create a deficiency if you do not supplement.

Do you mean red blood count? Yes

What is Hg? Sorry meant Hb Haemaglobin

I'm confused by this section - can you explain more please? Explained above

Did you start on a B Complex? If so which one, much & when?

Balanced B100 x 2 per day.

Contains .......

Thiamin 100mg, **what form specifically?

Ribloflavin 100mg, **what form specifically?

Niacin (as niacinamide) 100mg, ***Nicotinic Acid is the best form for Cardio

benefit

Vit B6 (as (pyridocine hci) 100mg, **this in INACTIVE

Folic Acid 400 mcg, **this in INACTIVE & synthetic

B12 (as cobalamin) 100mcg, **this in INACTIVE & far too low a dose

Biotin 100mcg,

Pantothenic Acid (as calcium panthenate) 100 mg,

Choline (as choline bitartate) 100mg,

Inositol 100mg,

PABA as para aminobenzoic acid 50mg.

I would strongly advise you to start a good bioactive one ASAP.

The one above is not a good one unfortunately for the reasons commented on

above.

Can you give a specific brand and amt to take?

I am partial to Thorne Research for most except sublingual B12 which they don't

do

Read below for specific info on brands & active forms

Vit B's

B12, Folate other B's

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14518&p=117782#p117782

Vit B Research Results

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1967&p=18221

Ramblings about Folinic Acid

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13852

Homocysteine & B Group Vits

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2395&p=19542

B6 & Health Isues

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13880

Additional B6

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10037

Should I take even if I can't get tested for a while?

Definitely do source & start a good bioactive Multi B ASAP

I use Thorne Basic B twice daily

One should NEVER supp B12 without supping Folate (preferably ACTIVE Folate which

is NOT Folic Acid).

What do you recommend? Amt?

I take 2 of the Basic B mentioned above I take extra as I know I have a MTHFR

gene Mutation (which is common) which affects ability to convert to active

Folate.

I take Thorne Folacal & 5-MTHF (alternate one cap daily)

Should always be on a B Multi too as need some of all the B's as they work

synergistically.

Does my B100 count as a Bmulti?

Yes however it is not a good one as stated above

That B12 level is pretty abysmal actually.

In Japan & most of Asia would have been dxed as deficient & started on shots

immediately.

I take sublingual B12's. I alternate one sublingual tab daily of...

Jarrow 5000mcg Methyl

Country Life 3000mcg Dinezocide

In addition I recently started self injecting weekly shots of 1000mcg Hydroxy

Remember too that the standard B12 Serum test is a TOTAL B12.

You can have great looking levels but IF the ACTIVE B12 is low you will still be

deficient at cellular level. Then there are possible problems with B12 transport

such as Transcobalamin deficiencies so you can't utilise much if any what you

take.

Is there a Transcobalamin test?

The test for ACTIVE B12 is called Holotranscobalamin & is a blood test

Transcobalamin is a transport protein (like Transferrin is for Iron) & can also

be tested

What type of B12 is in your shots & which brand (make sure has NO bad

preservatives in it) are you on & how much B12?

Drug: Cyanocobalamin 1000mcg/ml

Identification:solution

Generic name: Cyanocobalamin-injection

Common brand names: Cobal, Cyanoject, Cyomin, Vibal, Vit B-12.

I don't see anything telling me what the ingredients are to know if there are

BAD preservatives? Are you familiar with this one I'm on?

Ok so you are on Cyano form (which is NOT an active form and is also manmade/not

naturally occurring)

You are on 1000mcg which is fairly standard dose amount

The above doesn't say WHICH of the brand names you are on?

They all differ as to inactive ingredients

Note compounding pharmacies can prepare compounded hydroxycobalamin or

methylcobalamin injections. The compounded forms are usually preservative free.

Commercially prepared B12 injections are NOT preservative free and sometimes

contain Aluminum. Although a bit more expensive than what you'd receive if you

had script filled at CVS it's much cheaper get compounded than going to docs

office (assuming wiling to self injest). IF there is a compounding pharmacy

that is accommodating simply have doc write script for compounded B12

injections, with refills for a year. The compounded injections are usually good

for two months if kept in the fridge and protected from light.

For example

--------------------------------------------

Cyanoject

Looks like has Aluminium in this one. Note warning re low Potassium, Folic Acid

& Iron

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-9698-Cyanoject-10+Inj.aspx?drugid=9698&drugname=\

Cyanoject-10+Inj

Before using this medication, tell your doctor or pharmacist your medical

history, especially of: low POTASSIUM blood levels (hypokalemia), gout, a

certain blood disorder (polycythemia vera), a certain eye disease (Leber's

disease), other vitamin/mineral deficiencies (especially FOLIC ACID and IRON).

This product may contain ALUMINUM, which can infrequently build up to dangerous

levels in the body. The risk may be increased if this product is used for an

extended time, especially in newborns or in people with kidney disease. Tell

your doctor immediately if you notice any symptoms of too much ALUMINUM in the

body such as muscle weakness, bone pain, or mental changes.

Laboratory and/or medical tests (e.g., SERUM POTASSIUM LEVELS, COMPLETE BLOOD

COUNT, HEMATOCRIT, VITAMIN B12 LEVELS) should be performed to monitor your

progress or check for side effects. Consult your doctor for more details.

---------------------------------------------------------

Ever had CBC with differential done?

Yes but it's from 3/5 should I still post or is it irrelevant?

Go ahead & post it.

What date did you start the B12 injections?

Had CBC done since starting B12 & Iron?

No - I have a lab slip to get CBC and full iron + ferritin but it doesn't say

cbc diff?

Ring Lab & ask if differential is usually done when CBC marked on form.

Some also do ESR at same time others you have to have ESR detailed on form.

Would be good to include it if you can.

I'm wondering too about your Copper & Zinc levels?

Note RBC Zinc & RBC Copper are the preferred tests

Supping one in isolation or at too high a level may deplete the others

Never had done- someone just brought up that it would be great if I could do a

heavy metal test? Not sure if these are in it?

No Heavy metals testing usually doesn't include ANY Rbc Metals as far as I am

aware.

Again- I can't just order in NY.

If I find a dr.- how do I justify to them I NEED this done?

If you are having trouble with Iron levels can point out that these are related

& can be useful to have them tested?

I read a lot on the Pernicious Anemia Forum You need to pay to become a member

in order to post but is free to read posts & stickies.

http://www.pernicious-anaemia-society.org/phpbb/

As for the test coming up its up to you. If it was me I would skip the shot on

the weekend & continue as normal the following weekend.

I'll skip my next shot.

OK

Your results below.....

question were the protocols followed?

fasting, early am, stopping supps correct number of days before,no current or

recent illness or inflammatory condition/injury etc?

If so I interpret the results differently

I don't think Iron results mean much EXCEPT they are needed to calculate

Saturation & TIBC.

Your saturation I consider good (I think 30% is ideal).

Ferritin may be a low & I base that on the high in range result for your TIBC.

That said IF protocols weren't followed then Iron Saturation & TIBC are not

accurate anyway.

Test done at 8:30 am. good

Had few bites applesauce B4- they said I didn't need to fast. Now I know better.

OK that's not too bad, don't think that would skew much if at all

Test was done before Iron supps even started. OK

I have " fibro and chronic fatigue " otherwise no illness.

I had those dxes before treatment too. Guess what don't have them any more!!!!

Right now I have post nasal drip, not sure what from- would that skew results?

Possibly but having CBC with differential & ESR would help show if it is

My lab slip for next week with iron only calls for cbc no diff?

See comments above

is it worth doing at all or wait till next time?

If it's been a couple of months is worth doing I feel.

Although I would be pressing for Homocysteine, CRP, RBC Folate at same time if

at all possible. Especially since you have had was it NINE B12 shots?

That's quite a lot without knowing FOLATE status is also risky

I also never interpret/analyse Iron status without also testing Inflammation

Markers & CBC at same time as Iron Panel.

What do you mean by inflammation marker?

CRP, Homocysteine, ESR, full CBC with differential, Fibrinogen

Insulin Resistance can also cause systemic inflammation test Fasting glucose,

Fasting Insulin & HbA1c

Shortness of breath can be many things. Not least of all being HYPO.

What's strange about this is I NEVER had chest issues, shallow breathing before.

Not even on Synthroid. My doc said if I stop Synthroid entirely I'll just get

sicker. I stopped anyway. Now I feel confused and a little scared. My Rt3

ratio is 4. AWFUL!

I'm only taking 2.5mcg 4xday and holding thinking issues were maybe Iron related

and I needed to get up first. If I read you right- I don't get the impression

you think iron is my issue here.

It may be just not enough info at present to know. Retesting will help

especially if you can get the tests I mention above. Also post the previous May

CBC for me to look at.

I would be working on what you do know is low such as Magnesium & Vit D

Looking at current supps that can be improved (such as active B's) or added to

(such as Vit A, E, K2, CoQ10), or increased (such as Sea Salt, Potassium)

consider adding Liver support (eg. Milk Thistle).

If you are on low doses of T3 you will likely be VERY Hypo especially with high

Rt3 and/or a bad ratio. Hypo causes muscle weakness including diaphram.

Do you recommend I try to increase T3 again?

The other common culprit can be electrolytes (Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium &

sometimes Calcium).

Since I'm taking potassium I have checked electolytes.

Labs 8/18

Sodium 141 (136-145) *SUBOPTIMAL only 55% in range

Potassium 4.1 (3.5-5.1) *SUBOPTIMAL only 37.5% in range

Calcium 9.1 (8.6-10.2) *little low at 31%

Magnesium 2.2 (1.6-2.6) * Serum Mag means little Rbc Mag better test

Labs 6/29

RBC Magnesium 4.1 (4.0-6.4) *FAR TOO LOW only 0.4% in range!!!

Vit D 25 Hydroxy 43 (30-80) *STILL SUBOPTIMAL

I prefer Sodium in top 25% in range which is 143-145 so I think yours is still

a little low here. was this done early am fasting? Similarly Potassium I

consider low too and think top 25% of range is 4.7 to 5.1.

Rbc Mag is very very low. Optimal is top/near top of range. May even be better

with over range if have a lot of health issues (as long as BP isn't lowered too

much). Malic Magnesium isn't doing much for you at all. Strongly recommend you

get on Ancient Minerals transdermal Mag ASAP. Very difficult to optimise Mag

with oral supps irrespective how good they are.

Vit D as you know is still suboptimal. Vit D Council says 50-80 is optimal so

you haven't got to the bottom of that range as yet. Note is important to also

take Vit E, Vit K2 & Vit A all important for Thyroid conversion and Calcium

metabolism. You have been supping pretty high dose of Vit D & would be good to

retest within next month or so.

Calcium optimal is midrange. Note optimising Vit A, D E K & Mag/Potassium/Sodium

will do more for Calcium metabolism than direct Calcium supps. Most folks ingest

plenty just isn't being utilised correctly. I avoid Calcium supps altogether.

Most folks have too MUCH if truth be told (unless diet is extremely deficient or

have extreme malabsorption). Note too although yours is a little low continuing

to increase Vit D will bring this up. Note CORRECTED Calcium and/or Ionised

Calcium is better test than just Calcium.

Has a CMP been done that includes Liver Tests?

This should have been done BEFORE starting any Vit D actually.

How low was the Vit D before supps?

Liver tests...

ALP

ALT

AST

Total Bilirubin

GGT

Protein

Albumin

Globulin

A/G Ratio

Supplements/Meds

Ambien *why on this? Have you tried low dose Melatonin?

B12 shots 1000mcg Cyano weekly,

35mg Hydrocortisone

T3 2.5mcg x 4 daily total 10mcg daily

Iron 180mg,

Vit C 2k, **Note Vit C can lower/interfere with absorption of B12

Potassium 20mEq **consider increasing

B100 **consider getting better more active supp

Fish Oil, **ensure molecularly distilled & high EPA/DHA

Malic Magnesium, **consider adding Ancient Mineral mag oil

Vit D3 6k, **consider adding, Vit A, E, K2

Calcium 600mg,

1 tsp sea salt, **are you spreading this over day, are sitting/standing HR BPs

optimal?

Primadophilus **is this Naturesway product?

Ambien- is addictive would have to wean slowly, from reading side effects

appears to affect electrolytes & BP, consider supporting Liver to help cope with

this, Liver function is slow in Hypos anyway

CoQ10- hypos have problems with conversion need Ubiquinol form in Soy Free

product about 100mg daily (may nee to build up to it)

Vit A-hypos have problem with conversion avoid Betacarotenes need Retinyl

Palmitate

(I think 10000IU is safe for most I take 20000iu daily myself)

Vit E- need all natural 8 forms in Soy Free brand ~400IU daily

Milk Thistle – need high dose quality supp I use LEF Megasilymarin

Probiotic-which one are you taking?

Naturesway Primadophilus

Original

http://www.naturesway.com/Products/Probiotics/6800-Primadophilus-Original.aspx

or Optima?

http://www.naturesway.com/Products/Probiotics/15652-Primadophilus-Optima.aspx

Note both may contain traces of Soy or Milk.

First I prefer to get Dairy Free & certainly don't want anything with Soy. Next

the first is far too low at only 5 billion CFU's.

The second has 35Billion CFU's but doesn't tell you how much of each of 14

different strands. I think Acidophilis & B. Bifidum are the most important. Mine

has just these two & has 25 billion CFU's.

Lethal Lee

> > > >

> > > > hello-

> > > > I recently read a post (sorry I can't find) that in order to get a true

> >read with iron labs you need to stop vitc and b12 for 5 days. I get b12 shots

> >every Saturday. I'm due to get blood on tues 8/31 - should I skip the 28th

shot?

> >Not sure if skipping b12 pertains to shots or if it was meant for

suppplements

> >only. Can you ever get a true read when you are getting shots?

> >

> > > > Thanks!

> > > >

> > >

> >

>