Guest guest Posted April 28, 1999 Report Share Posted April 28, 1999 rlssupport (AT) onelist (DOT) com wrote: > > Show mom you love her. Check out our great Mother's Day Gifts! > 14K Gold and gemstone jewelry, leather and cloth wallets and purses, > gardening, gourmet, kitchen, more! Free Shipping in the US! > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe5 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This forum is for support only. The information posted to this List is for support purposes > and is not intended to replace the examination, diagnosis and treatment of a licensed > physician and no such claims are inferred. > > There are 9 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. RLS: I disagree, Connie. > > 2. rls and keeping score and butterflies > > 3. Bye for a while/non RLS > From: WantsomZZZ@... > 4. Keeping score > From: Sqrl523@... > 5. Re: Keeping score > > 6. alternative thinking-RLS > > 7. Re: alternative thinking-RLS > From: Vkeykey2@... > 8. Re: alternative thinking-RLS > > 9. alternative thinking-RLS > From: MetaMom123@... > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:11:08 -0700 (PDT) > > Subject: RLS: I disagree, Connie. > > Aw, Geez, Connie!!! I'm so frustrated! I have to pack and head down > to Tucson to be with Mom, so I don't have time to respond in detail to > all the comments in your letter...which, of course, I'd be sure to do > privately. But just for the public record, I disagree with a LOT of > what you wrote. > I totally agree with your intent, but not with the appropriateness of > saying it all in a " support " group, and definitely not with all the > reasoning. > BUT....that's philosophy. > I think Dr. Levin's plan was right (even though he often failed to > follow his own advice): Only comment on someone's therapy methods > when they asks your opinion or when it's life or health threatening. > Otherwise, support the people, keep quiet, or ask them if they're > interested in your opinion privately. > > SUPPORT is a key word. > Suffice it to say that both sides of the therapy issue have positive > and negative points and we, in this group, will never win the battle > of which is right or wrong. I know you are not taking sides, but are > just concerned about crazy ideas that can be costly financially or in > terms of health. I enjoy discussing the pros and cons of each > therapy, but I don't enjoy general put downs of one idea over another. > Maybe the idea won't work, but maybe it will lead to better > understanding and to an even better remedy. If it's not dangerous, > let's not do anything to discourage people from trying it and doing > their own research. > > I've seen a lot of people " try " a lot of therapies, including a lot of > prescription meds, but I wouldn't say they all gave it the same effort > or started their trial with the same set of variables. Two people can > try ANY therapy and get different results, based on HOW they applied > it, what their own health was, and how long they stuck with it, etc. > So even if you've tried all the things I use or try to use, it doesn't > mean I won't get results where you might have felt you just threw away > your time and money. I know you know this and agree, because you and > I have had LONG productive discussions in private and seem to > understand each other. But, I also know you are just terribly worried > and concerned about others blowing their money, getting into dangerous > situation, or building up false hopes, and you'd love to spare them > the pain or trouble. As I said, your intent is wonderful. You're a > caring, concerned, and willing to be involved intelligent woman. But > take it from the daughter of an overprotective loving nurturing Jewish > mother, sometimes all that concern, warning, and desire to protect, > can get in the way of someone feeling good about themselves and > reaching out to discover things on their own. And sometimes, when > they reach out in the very same areas where the parents found nothing, > they find something the parents missed....maybe just because times > have changed. THere are several things I've wanted to warn my 22 year > old " I can do it myself " son about, lately. But I've had to ask > myself whether it's dangerous to let him fly on his own, and whether > there's a chance he just might discover something in the process. > Sometimes, he's surprised me, and we've all come away winners. And > sometimes, I could say " I told you so, " and shout it LOUDLY!!! But > even then, I try to be quiet, because I know that the most important > thing is that now HE knows, and it didn't really hurt him too badly to > learn it on his own. ALWAYS, if it's dangerous, speak up, ALWAYS. I > sure plan to, and I'm counting on you to speak up, too. > Well, time to hit the road, again. > Sincerely, > > == > Jill Gunzel, 47, Arizona > For nonprescription RLS therapies, > see my website at http://www.netzone.com/~gunzel/rls.html > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:40:57 -0400 > > Subject: rls and keeping score and butterflies > > i don't believe i've written to the group for well over a week but jills > reappearance has for some reason forced my fingers to do some typing . > first since we probably will keep score on this one i vote for connie - > second since i'm a jewish father i would like to say to jill to let her son > become a MAN without jewish motherly 'i told you so' kvetching (yes i know > i'll catch hell for saying that!!!!). and now to rls and > butterflies...............we've all discussed the power of the human mind > and its effect on our illnesses etc etc - well for as long as i'm able to > remember (sometimes for as long as a few hours ) i've 'invented' bodily > armies to aid in the defeat of whatever has ailed me - i've generals and > colonels and sergeants and privates and armies navies and yes even a bodily > air force.........i visualize them attacking bacteria virusus germs of all > types but broken bones will withstand their attacks - lately i've also > launched a peace offensive using kristy's butterflies -- what a wonderful > alliance!!!!! yes i know that i'm totally nuts but the fact is that for > whatever reason i'm no longer brain dead (which 2400mg of neurontin was > doing to me) and i'm sleeping pretty good and taking virtually no neurontin > at all and the spasms/twitches are pretty much limited to the early > evening..........i'm going to the US patent office this afternoon to see if > i can make some $$$ out of this. > > JACK > sunny and mid 50's in western nys > > We've done it again!!! Please visit our NEW " Spring " homepage! > Enjoy:-) > NEW - homepage URL: > http://www.frontiernet.net/~goviers > updated 4/1/99. > OR > If you liked our old homepage, you can now find it at this address: > http://netjunk.com/users/chief39 > > Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery, Today is a gift. That's why > it's called: " The Present. " > > " Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing. " > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:59:48 EDT > From: WantsomZZZ@... > Subject: Bye for a while/non RLS > > Well gang, > > Moving day draws nearer and it is time to disconnect the old puter so I can > move the cabinet to my fifth wheel trailer. See you all in a few weeks. > Hoping everyone has happy dreams, NV to WA > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:56:03 EDT > From: Sqrl523@... > Subject: Keeping score > > Dear Group, > > This is one of those times when I should probably cool off before writing - > but I'm just so angry.... > > My first reaction was to send Jill a private note (as she always suggests) - > but since she decided to make her views known in a public forum, I feel that > I should be allowed the same courtesy. > > So, as long as we're keeping score, let me say that I regret that I have only > one vote to cast " in favor " of Connie. > > I've always felt that Jill - or anyone else for that matter - had the right > to express their opinions, views, info. I don't always agree with the > information and use my delete key alot. But I've always respected the right > to say what you feel. > > But this latest post from Jill just really got to me - (I just love how she > managed to get a slap at Dr. Levin in - and speaking about not following > one's own advice - what happened to your self-imposed vow of silence. > > Jill has said often that she loves to teach. It seems to me that what she > really likes to do is PREACH. (No smirk ) > > With all the bickering that goes on here, I worry that this group will come > to an end - and that is something I would hate to see happen. I have had RLS > for almost all of my 43 years - and this group (And particularly Connie) has > been a Godsend. > > I thought that Jack's e-mail on this subject was quite eloquent - and I wish > maybe I could have expressed myself in a similar fashion - > > I apologize to anyone who takes offense at this message - but I felt that > once the subject was in the public domain, it was fair game. > > There, I've said it. I feel better. > > 43 NY > > (just sent the post and mispelled RLSSUPPORT so it didn't go through. I have > a 2nd chance - and I'm still going to send it) > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:12:23 -0500 > > Subject: Re: Keeping score > > I too worry about the list. Why does there only have to be one view to things or all -ell > breaks loose? Why can't some people leave other peoples opinions alone? I personally want to > hear everyone's opinions but in a civil manner. Doesn't this group have rules? Are the rules > being enforced? Maybe if they were there would be less condemnation going on and more sharing. > It's not right that some people can have their say and others are afraid to because of being > ganged up on. And I'm not necessarily talking about me but people who e-mail me in private. > Because they don't want the hassle. Seems to me if we had some rules that were enforced than we > wouldn't have ALL of this. There would still be some carrying on but not near as much. Just my > 2 cents worth. COCO MO. > > Sqrl523@... wrote: > > > From: Sqrl523@... > > > > Dear Group, > > > > This is one of those times when I should probably cool off before writing - > > but I'm just so angry.... > > > > My first reaction was to send Jill a private note (as she always suggests) - > > but since she decided to make her views known in a public forum, I feel that > > I should be allowed the same courtesy. > > > > So, as long as we're keeping score, let me say that I regret that I have only > > one vote to cast " in favor " of Connie. > > > > I've always felt that Jill - or anyone else for that matter - had the right > > to express their opinions, views, info. I don't always agree with the > > information and use my delete key alot. But I've always respected the right > > to say what you feel. > > > > But this latest post from Jill just really got to me - (I just love how she > > managed to get a slap at Dr. Levin in - and speaking about not following > > one's own advice - what happened to your self-imposed vow of silence. > > > > Jill has said often that she loves to teach. It seems to me that what she > > really likes to do is PREACH. (No smirk ) > > > > With all the bickering that goes on here, I worry that this group will come > > to an end - and that is something I would hate to see happen. I have had RLS > > for almost all of my 43 years - and this group (And particularly Connie) has > > been a Godsend. > > > > I thought that Jack's e-mail on this subject was quite eloquent - and I wish > > maybe I could have expressed myself in a similar fashion - > > > > I apologize to anyone who takes offense at this message - but I felt that > > once the subject was in the public domain, it was fair game. > > > > There, I've said it. I feel better. > > > > 43 NY > > > > (just sent the post and mispelled RLSSUPPORT so it didn't go through. I have > > a 2nd chance - and I'm still going to send it) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Has ONElist changed your life? > > http://www.ONElist.com > > Visit our homepage and share with us your experiences at ONElist of the Week! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This forum is for support only. The information posted to this List is for support purposes > > and is not intended to replace the examination, diagnosis and treatment of a licensed > > physician and no such claims are inferred. > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:13:42 -0700 > > Subject: alternative thinking-RLS > > Hi Connie and everyone, > > Please bear with me.... > > Everyone is basically saying the same thing. > 1. you have a right to speak your mind. > 2. you do not have the right to ridicule. > 3. you have the right to warn others. > 4. you do not have the right to dictate. > 5. you have the right to suggest. > 6. you do not have the right to sell. > > Everyone agrees on some basic concepts: > 1. there is no one cure currently available. > 2. there are many possibilities not yet discovered (cause/cure) > 3. there are prescription medications that work > 4. there are prescription medications that don't work. > 5. side effects are tremendous and sometimes dangerous > 6. homeopathic remedies that work > 7. homeopathic remedies that don't work. > 8. homeopathic side effects can also be dangerous. > 9. Everyone is different. > > We've got at least 15 items in common. I know I get great comfort in that. > Where else, or from what source, can you have so much in common? > > Let's not keep score, let's be kind & supportive & remember we're all in the same boat - some in speed boats, some in canoes, some in kayaks, some on rafts made with sticks, but still a boat floating on RLS River of Life. > Let's use the oars to get upstream and not whack each other getting there. > > Way back at the turn of the century, many inventions were presented and most likely ridiculed. Several generations from now, will probably study us and scratch their heads at our ignorance. Everything about life is a learning process; open minds and open hearts conquer the world...... > > I really care about each & every one of you. Please do not dismantle this group > because of semantics. > > Ana Casinha, 34 Woodbridge, Ont. > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:33:40 EDT > From: Vkeykey2@... > Subject: Re: alternative thinking-RLS > > Ana and to the group > Thanks for saying it so well, I am having an rls attack so bad I can hardly > sit here and write. Also had a really bad night last night, just seems to > rear its ugly head whenever it pleases. > So what I need is for someone to tell me it won't last forever, and that they > understand. You are the only people who really understand what I am feeling, > so lets hang in there, because where else could we find that? > Versie 62 NC > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:41:04 -0400 > > Subject: Re: alternative thinking-RLS > > Me too Versie, about the bad attack and rotten night! > > As for the rest-----aaaaaaaaargh!!!! Not another word do you hear? Any > more bickering, talking back and just plain orneryness and you will have a > time out in your rooms WITHOUT MEDICATIONS!! > > Nor let's get back to the business at hand. I suspicion that my recent > backlash with RLS was due to an overdose of folic acid. Just my guess. > Nothing concrete. Anyway I'm hoping for a good night tonight. > > Now shake hands and come out smiling!! > > CHEERS!! > > Jeanne and Mr. Biggles in Poultney VT > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:13:52 EDT > From: MetaMom123@... > Subject: alternative thinking-RLS > > Ana, > > Thank you so much for your kind words of wisdom. I truly felt in my heart > that these were the points that I was attempting to get across in my > communicating with the group. Your list was a very good one. > > My remarks were meant to further the cause of caution and deeper > understanding of the treatments and medications being utilized. I try so > hard to word my letters in a way that will not offend anyone. On my honor, I > am truly happy for anything that you can do to help yourself, and the last > thing I would ever want is to split the group into opposing views. I believe > in that old axiom.... " United we stand.... " ......:-) > > I must admit that I did not expect Jill to be totally pleased with my letter. > I wasn't sure what it would be, but I felt there would be something in there > that she would not approve of. I'm very sorry that she feels I was so far > out of line with my advice, but I have faced the fact long ago that we will > never have a total meeting of the minds. As we say in the group " We have > agreed to disagree " and we respect each other's feelings. > > I strongly disagree with her theory about advice to children, > athough....lol........:-)........but hey, to each his own. I'm certainly not > saying that my way is right. It's just right for me. Jill knows that I am > rather timid and not strong-willed, and I admire her strength and confidence. > Her way of teaching her children may well be the way to make them strong > like she is. But rather than allow my children to make mistakes and then > tell them what they did wrong when it doesn't work out, I find it better to > continue to teach and advise as I did when they learned to walk and talk. I > will always explain what I think is the best way to handle a situation and > why I feel that way. I then leave the decision up to them. > > " I told you so " is not in my vocabulary........... > > It's really funny that this subject has come up because just two days ago I > asked my daughter (35) if she felt I was intruding on her life by offering so > much advice on her particular concerns at this time. I was quite relieved > when she told me " Absolutely not........I want all the advice you care to > give me as long as you leave the decision up to me, and I know that you > always do. " As parents, I think we are never really quite sure how we can > best help our children........we all do the best we can at that place in > time...and that's really all we can do, other than to be here to help pick up > the pieces. > > The best compliment that I can give to this group is to tell you that I give > my daughter the very same medical advice that I give you. And lest you think > I have nothing to worry about here, let me remind you that she lives in > California......land of many alternatives. I caution her about things that I > find questionable, both alternative and traditional, then I sit here and > worry that she will make a wise and safe decision. > > Now I think it's time to put this situation to rest. ...........do anything > you want, Guys, and keep us informed of your progress. > > Sincerely, > Connie > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ Please unsubscribe. jlbinion@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2002 Report Share Posted May 20, 2002 How do these spammers get in here? Jeff N, DC Digest Number 233 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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