Ashes & Infectivity

[Guest guest]

To All:

Last week after much discussion on ashes of their loved ones I took it upon

myself to look into the matter a little harder. I sent a letter to

Brown and Tom Pringle. Here are there replies. While it doesn't give

definite answers it does shed light on it.

a G.

Brown said:

An " incineration " experiment has never been done. However, I decided a

couple of months ago, just as a matter of interest, to do it. The first

phase is completed, and heated and ashed specimens are now inoculated into

animals to see whether any infectivity persists. We should have final

results in about a year.

In the meantime, although we don't truly know, I think (like everyone else)

that the chance of the agents surviving incineration range temperatures is

very very unlikely, so that it seems to me a pretty safe matter to spread

ashes as they (or the deceased) wished. If on the other hand, they wish to

be totally safe, they might keep the ashes in a container, and not spread

them until I have results from the experiment.

Brown

_____________________________________

Tom said:

I believe that ashes would be completely safe in an urn or scattered at sea

or whatever favorite place. The prion protein is really not any different

from any other protein in terms of complete combustion at high

temperatures. I do not see any plausible route of exposure unless they are

being scattered in a high wind. Ash would be rapidly dispersed and

assimilated in an outdoor setting without harm to the environment. There

has been no direct testing however.

While common sense suggests avoiding unnecessary risks even if low, I think

that funeral procedures in England have gone too far and are bordering on

superstition. Many people have noted similarities here to excesses in the

early days of AIDS which is far more contagious.

There is some concern over commercial incinerators in England responsible

for incinerating millions of cattle. But here it is from smokestack

venting of incompletely burned material and thousands of tons of ash going

to landfills. There is potential exposure through lungs and through

drinking water. Again there has been no direct testing but I personally

doubt that anyone will ever get CJD in this way. This should not be

confused with bovine-derived bone meal used in rose gardens -- that

material has not been incinerated and may be infectious.

Best wishes,

Tom

[Guest guest]

Dearest Vicki,

I'm sure all of us will hold you in our prayers as you traverse this last

difficult time with your mother-in-law and family. Please know that having

it over and done is at least some small form of comfort, knowing that she

will no longer suffer.

God speed.

Shar

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> From: SOUKUPS@...

> To: cjdvoice (AT) onelist (DOT) com

> Subject: Re: Ashes & Infectivity

> Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 2:44 PM

>

> From: SOUKUPS@...

>

> a,

>

> Thank you for taking the time to research this subject. My mother in law

> probably will not last the week and we needed this information to put our

> minds at rest. It makes sense that it would the ashes would be safe

because

> of the high temperatures used, but one never knows. Its also not

something

> that would be common knowledge (that is, temperatures of cremation,

etc.).

>

> My mother in law has started the apnea breathing and not had anything

more

> than a spoonful or so of water since Friday. She won't open her mouth

now and

> seemed to have trouble swallowing even that, according to my brother in

law,

> who was down there this weekend. I leave tomorrow to be with my father

in law

> for what I presume will be the end of this nightmare. I am supposed to

return

> Friday, but one can only guess if that will be possible.

>

> Thank you to everyone at CJD Voice for your help and kind words as we

have

> journeyed down this miserable path....I will be in touch when I return.

>

> Vicki

>

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>