RLS/depression

[Guest guest]

Donna, I don't think that sounds at all silly. " Gratitude " is good

medicine, right up there with laughter.

>Like, I said, I have been feeling really down lately, and this might

>sound silly, but I have started a gratitude journal. Every day I write

>down 2 or 3 things that I am grateful for, and it really helps!! I

>didn't think it would, but you'd be surprised. Well, this is long

>enough, so I'll sign off!

>

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[Guest guest]

Good Morning, Group!

Well, I 'm a little confused. I'm not sure who Dr. , either, but

I'm QUITE sure sleep deprivation is causing my depression. It is like a

snowball effect. I never had a problem w/depression until the RLS got so

out of control. If ya can't sleep, then ya can't think straight, and ya

start making really bad decisions, and judgements. I've been having a

rough time lately at work, just like Barb. I was ready to walk out, but

financially, that is not an option. I really thought it was going to

drive me over the edge, but I feel I am crawling back now! Instead of

working in billing, and credit collections, where I have to have such a

high concentration, I am going to be working in the composing room of

the newspaper. I will be able to be on my feet a lot, and moving around,

plus the personality conflict I am experiencing in the business office

will disappear. This change will take place at the first of the year,

and I can't wait. I know it won't solve all my problems, but it is a

step in the right direction.

Like, I said, I have been feeling really down lately, and this might

sound silly, but I have started a gratitude journal. Every day I write

down 2 or 3 things that I am grateful for, and it really helps!! I

didn't think it would, but you'd be surprised. Well, this is long

enough, so I'll sign off!

Happy Sunday!

Donna/Vt/42

[Guest guest]

To Donna, Debbie, and all

The relationship between RLS and depression in any individual case is

far from being understood. There is no question that some people with

chronic medical illness with demonstrate symptoms of depression. This

type of depression has been called " reactive depression " or " secondary

depression " or just " depression " , depending on the writer. This is in

contrast to " depression " as seen in a patient with no significant

non-emotional factors to explain the depression. I like the term

" reactive depression " for the former group of patients. It must be kept

in mind that symptoms of depression exist in 10-20% of the general

population of the U.S., with females being affected several times more

frequently that males. Many of these people can continue to cope and

function at an acceptable level, even if they are not the happiest

people around. Put an additional stress on their psyche and they may be

pushed over the line into a state that doesn't allow them to continue to

function satisfactorily. They exhibit overt and disabling depression.

Having RLS is certainly stressful enough to bring about this change.

In addition, there are some people who exhibit no signs of depression

and are struck with a medical illness, acute or chronic, which, to them,

threatens their future way of life, e.g. heart attack victims, cancer

patients, AND RLS patients. Some of these patients become depressed and

the depression is indistinguishable from " clinical depression. " The

symptoms are the same and the response to therapy is the same. The

depression tends to be of less severity than that of the typical " major

depressive " patient and is usually of shorter duration, if treated.

These cases, I feel, are cases of " reactive depression. " Others would be

caused by the death or severe illness of a loved one, financial

catastrophes, and the like.

Without an in-depth study of each individual patient, it is impossible

to pigeon-hole them to a specific category. The role of sleep

deprivation in causing depression in a " normal " person is debatable.

Some authorities think it can while others don't buy it. (Of interest is

a study of 1700 depressed patients who were treated by depriving them of

sleep, with a 60% positive response.) Sleep deprivation is a common

symptom of depression of any type. It becomes a case of which came

first. With RLS, you have the combination of a chronic medical illness

which threatens the present and future way of life of the patient and

which is associated with sleep deprivation. The stage is set for a

reactive type of depression. Add this same situation to the emotional

makeup of a person with " subclinical depression " and you have " clinical

depression with aggravating factors. "

Being depressed is NOT something to be ashamed of. It is a mental

illness. BUT, many people are ashamed of having any mental illness just

like many people are ashamed of having a heart attack or cancer. They

view this as a weakness in themselves. These feelings might not be on

the surface for everyone to see, but scratch off the veneer and they

will be there in many patients. They are frequently expressed as anger,

not at anything in particular, just generalized anger. Depression is

often characterized by the turning of one's anger towards themself which

could lead, in severe cases, to suicide.

In summary, I think that RLS can cause or contribute to depression.

There are several ways for it to do this and they vary from patient to

patient.

As for the WeMove chat last Thursday night, I thought that the format

was poor. The answers took too long to appear and often did not address

the questions. The side chatter was often ridiculous and I found it to

be depressing in that the lack of knowledge of the RLS patients about

their own illness was enormous. I would have hoped that RLS patients who

found the chat-room would have also found the material waiting for them

on the Web in various Web-pages. They would have learned more by reading

the RLS Foundation's pages or the So. Cal. Support Group pages or the

WeMove discussion at http://wemove.org> which is excellent, except for

some typos and questionable statements.

Dr. was asked about RLS and depression in two questions. His first

response was that there was no relationship. His second response was

that any chronic medical illness can cause depression. Maybe some of you

missed the second repeat question and its answer. Dr. is

one of the pioneers in the field of study of RLS. He is one of the men

running the sleep lab at s Hopkins and one of the men responsible

for showing the relationship between ferritin and RLS. He is the

chairman of the Medical Advisory Board of the RLS Foundation and has

published many papers on RLS along with his colleague, Dr.

Earley, also at Hopkins. He also happens to be a good friend of mine,

and is one of the physicians who is treating my RLS. Anyone having Dr.

for their physician should count their blessings. He made a

semantic slip on the chat room which he corrected for all to read. Dr.

gives of his own time to teach courses in RLS for physicians, to

speak to Support Groups, to serve as the head of the Medical Advisory

Board of the Foundation besides being one of the few researchers in RLS

to have contributed to the clinical understanding of RLS with his work

in iron metabolism. For some reason, I would rather take his advice on

RLS than those that have written that he doesn't know what he is talking

about.

Dr. Levin

[Guest guest]

--- " L. Levin, M.D. " pathdoc@...> wrote:

>Dr. for their physician should count their blessings. He made a

> semantic slip on the chat room which he corrected for all to read.

> I would rather take his advice on

> RLS than those that have written that he doesn't know what he is

talking

> about.

>

As Dr. Levin is responding to my comment, I would like to publicly

apologize for my statement about Dr. . It was in response to

someone having quoted his first remark. I was not privy to his

correction, as I was not involved with the chat room. I should have

recognized his name, but out of context, I didn't.

I must also confess that this RLS/depression topic is a sensitive

issue for me. I was diagnosed and treated for depression before my

doctor would take my RLS complaints seriously. The result was tragic!

Once I finally received treatment for the RLS, the depression

essentially ended. In my case, there is no question that the

" depression " was the result of prolonged RLS-induced sleep deprivation.

-- Dudley, 52

[Guest guest]

Dear Group,

I missed the chat so I don't know who Dr. is. But I wanted

to try to answer ne. I was told by my Dr. that " clinical

depression " is different than ordinary old " down in the dumps " in that

the person who has it, can not pull themselves out without the aid of

medication, and it lasts longer than just a few days or weeks. I'm not

saying RLS doesn't cause " clinical depression " , but mine was caused by

the administration where I worked, they tried to put me on permanent

graveyards when I was pregnant, and treat the females in the dept. like

they are less than, it's a really long story that went on for years so I

wont bore you with the details. I finally " snapped " at work in 1995 and

couldn't quit crying, I had no idea what was wrong with me, I just

couldn't seem to cope anymore. This was 5 years after the depression had

started (through therapy we were able to determine when it had started).

By 1995 I was having severe anxiety attacks and couldn't " get a grip on

myself " . So in answer to your question ne, if your depression goes

on and on for months or years, and you can't seem to pull yourself out,

it's labeled clinical depression. In that period of time there are

things I just plain don't remember, when I came out of the " fog " I

realized I had a cousin that passed away, it didn't really dawn on me

until about a year after she died.

Consequently when they started me on anti-depressants my RLS/PLMD got

much worse, I don't know if it was the zoloft or if it was the fact that

I just couldn't go on anymore and handle anything else in my life. (I

suspect it was the meds...) I know my Mom was getting really down when

her meds weren't working and Dad and I were very worried about her. Lack

of sleep will definitely get you down, and can cause depression I have

seen it in my Mom. I hope I answered your question, and If I am wrong, I

hope Dr. Levin will correct me.....

Happy Sunday to all...

Debbie

, Ca.

41 and holding

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[Guest guest]

Thank you Dr. Levin, for the first time since being diagnosed with

" Clinical depression " , I have a better understanding of it. I have been

fortunate in that when I feel a depression coming on, I can take steps to

alleviate the " hole of gloom and doom " as I call it. Winter is hard on

me, with lack of sun-light and the holidays. Last year I tried St 's

wart, it worked for awhile, but I ended up on anti-depressants until

spring anyway.

Again thank you for the explanation, and I was in no way putting down Dr.

, I couldn't get AOL up and running in time to make the chat, but

would like to read the summary of it when it is done.

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[Guest guest]

I Feel Dr. Levin stated very well on sunday on this topic, Just

wanted to pass this on to to u Jude if u missed his letter. Ray 40 Pgh.,

PA