Re: Kirkman's EnZym-Complete II DPP-IV Isogest™ Formula / Increased aggression

[Guest guest]

Let her talk to the school administrators; how can they have a problem with you

putting your child on a healthier diet?

Listen to your heart and your mind; not her!

-------------- Original message --------------

> Hello List Mates,

>

> I have a question on legal enzymes. I've searched the database and

> pecanbread.com. Pecanbread.com list Kirkman's enzym-complete/dpp as

> legal; however, the this section of the website hasn't been updated

> since '04. My son's DAN! Dr. suggested we start using EnZym-

> Complete

> II DPP-IV Isogest™ Formula, which she said is a " newer "

> formulation.

> I did purchase a bottle and have given it to my son, but feel

> somewhat

> uncomfortable b/c I can't find it on the approved list (maybe

> because

> its newer???).

>

> As long as I'm typing....Today my son's teacher asked me to come in

> and discuss my son's increased aggression. My son is a 5 year old

> w/

> autism who is in an early childhood special education class. His

> teacher feels certain that his aggression is attributable to this

> diet. The start date of the aggression (hitting, scratching, biting

> the teacher, and scratching, pushing other children) did start about

> a

> month ago, at the same time we started the diet. She really wants

> us

> to get off the diet, but I told her that I felt it was the best

> course

> of action for my son. I asked her to please give it a couple of

> more

> months, but she felt that the other children were in jeapardy and

> said

> she would have to talk to the school administration about letting

> him

> stay in school if we continued the diet. I tried to explain that

> the

> problem could be due to yeast die off / detoxification of the body,

> but she still felt very uncomfortable and wanted to know how long

> this

> would go on. I really couldn't give her an answer. (I did provide

> her with quite a bit of printed info. off pecanbread.com to explain

> the diet and my line of thinking). Anyway, I also wonder if some of

> the aggression is due to the diet along with his ever continuing

> (even

> before SCD) constipation. Does anybody have any thoughts on my

> situation? I sure would appreciate any advice.

>

> Thanks so much, Melinda

>

>

>

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

> _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

> websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Melinda,

> My son's DAN! Dr. suggested we start using EnZym-

> Complete

> II DPP-IV Isogest™ Formula, which she said is a " newer "

> formulation.

It is legal.

> Anyway, I also wonder if some of

> the aggression is due to the diet along with his ever continuing

> (even

> before SCD) constipation. Does anybody have any thoughts on my

> situation? I sure would appreciate any advice.

Some behaviours like this have been reported with constipation.

What is he eating and how is the food cooked (peeled etc.)? Any

supplements, other enzymes etc.?

Have you tried epsom salt baths?

Sheila, SCD 58 mos, 21 yrs UC

mom of , SCD 43 mos

[Guest guest]

Melinda,

I can't answer your question about the isgest legality. I do believe it is

legal, but I am not positive on that. Carol can answer that question. I will say

that the Houston enzymes we take are ten times better than both the old

formulation and the isogest formulation from Kirkman...

SCD does not cause aggression. If anything, SCD eliminates aggression. I

understand the teachers concern for the other pupils, and her grasping to find a

solution.

Food allergies and sensitivities cause aggression, especially when it starts

in out of the blue. Your son is eating something he is sensitive to. It could

also be a matter of too many phenols in the diet. If he has an underlying yeast

problem, that could be part of the equation. It is possible your son has a

sensitivity to something in the isogest as well, since you just begun it.

My advice and opinion, when problems like these occur, stop, go back to the

intro diet for a week, then add no more than one new food per week (this

includes supplements) and keep a good food journal. It is important to go slow

when you are trying to diagnose and isolate food sensitivities, as a sensitivity

can cause mood changes, digestive problems, behavoir problems, reduced learning

capacity, less awareness, hyperactivity, stimming and aggression, just to name a

Few. In fact, I honestly think the 2 week rule is better, intoducing one new

food every two weeks, at least until you get a hang of what you are looking for.

Reactions can be immediate, but for most sensitivities my own family has

experienced, they take a full week or two to be fully evident.

So, to sum up, SCD does not cause aggression. Any food can cause aggression if

the body has a sensitivity to it, or it enters the blood stream only partially

digested...this can happen on any diet. I do believe compounding matters for

your son, he has some die off happening as well.

Just my opinion,

Summer and Family, SCD 14 months

mbosworth65 mbosworth65@...> wrote:

Hello List Mates,

I have a question on legal enzymes. I've searched the database and

pecanbread.com. Pecanbread.com list Kirkman's enzym-complete/dpp as

legal; however, the this section of the website hasn't been updated

since '04. My son's DAN! Dr. suggested we start using EnZym-

Complete

II DPP-IV Isogest™ Formula, which she said is a " newer "

formulation.

I did purchase a bottle and have given it to my son, but feel

somewhat

uncomfortable b/c I can't find it on the approved list (maybe

because

its newer???).

As long as I'm typing....Today my son's teacher asked me to come in

and discuss my son's increased aggression. My son is a 5 year old

w/

autism who is in an early childhood special education class. His

teacher feels certain that his aggression is attributable to this

diet. The start date of the aggression (hitting, scratching, biting

the teacher, and scratching, pushing other children) did start about

a

month ago, at the same time we started the diet. She really wants

us

to get off the diet, but I told her that I felt it was the best

course

of action for my son. I asked her to please give it a couple of

more

months, but she felt that the other children were in jeapardy and

said

she would have to talk to the school administration about letting

him

stay in school if we continued the diet. I tried to explain that

the

problem could be due to yeast die off / detoxification of the body,

but she still felt very uncomfortable and wanted to know how long

this

would go on. I really couldn't give her an answer. (I did provide

her with quite a bit of printed info. off pecanbread.com to explain

the diet and my line of thinking). Anyway, I also wonder if some of

the aggression is due to the diet along with his ever continuing

(even

before SCD) constipation. Does anybody have any thoughts on my

situation? I sure would appreciate any advice.

Thanks so much, Melinda

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

Melinda, my son will get aggressive when he isn't tolerating a food

or supplement. Apples are a big culprit with my son. I don't know

what your son is eating, but just make sure you are peeling and

cooking your fruits and vegetables. Is he eating any new fruits and

vegetables since starting the SCD? Did you start any new

supplement? I agree with Summer, it isn't the diet that is causing

the aggression, it is something or possibly more than one thing he

is eating or taking now that is causing it. If he is out of school

for the holiday, it would be a great time to go back to the

beginning and start really slow, watching for any reactions. My son

also has problem behaviors when he is really constipated. It can

really get bad when he is constipated and has eaten a food or foods

he doesn't tolerate. The constipation keeps the food in his bowel

and continues to dump the toxins into his system. Have you tried

magnesium oxide, magnesium citrate, vitamin C powder with your son

for his constipation? The magnesium oxide has been a major help

with my son's problem.

Debbie, Carson's mom age 3 ASD, SCD 15 months

> Hello List Mates,

>

> I have a question on legal enzymes. I've searched the database

and

> pecanbread.com. Pecanbread.com list Kirkman's enzym-complete/dpp

as

> legal; however, the this section of the website hasn't been

updated

> since '04. My son's DAN! Dr. suggested we start using EnZym-

> Complete

> II DPP-IV Isogest™ Formula, which she said is a " newer "

> formulation.

> I did purchase a bottle and have given it to my son, but feel

> somewhat

> uncomfortable b/c I can't find it on the approved list (maybe

> because

> its newer???).

>

> As long as I'm typing....Today my son's teacher asked me to come

in

> and discuss my son's increased aggression. My son is a 5 year old

> w/

> autism who is in an early childhood special education class. His

> teacher feels certain that his aggression is attributable to this

> diet. The start date of the aggression (hitting, scratching,

biting

> the teacher, and scratching, pushing other children) did start

about

> a

> month ago, at the same time we started the diet. She really wants

> us

> to get off the diet, but I told her that I felt it was the best

> course

> of action for my son. I asked her to please give it a couple of

> more

> months, but she felt that the other children were in jeapardy and

> said

> she would have to talk to the school administration about letting

> him

> stay in school if we continued the diet. I tried to explain that

> the

> problem could be due to yeast die off / detoxification of the

body,

> but she still felt very uncomfortable and wanted to know how long

> this

> would go on. I really couldn't give her an answer. (I did

provide

> her with quite a bit of printed info. off pecanbread.com to

explain

> the diet and my line of thinking). Anyway, I also wonder if some

of

> the aggression is due to the diet along with his ever continuing

> (even

> before SCD) constipation. Does anybody have any thoughts on my

> situation? I sure would appreciate any advice.

>

> Thanks so much, Melinda

>

>

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the

book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the

following websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My son does 100% better with the original Kirkmans and the Iogest

formula than the Houston enzymes. Every child is different; what is

better for one child may be terrible for another.

Iogest is SCD legal.

The school district cannot tell you what to do in regards to health

issues. It is the parents decision. I never tell the school when I'm

changing something or adding something to my son's diet/supps. I

then get independent reflection of improvements or regressions in

the daily long.

Kathy

> Hello List Mates,

>

> I have a question on legal enzymes. I've searched the database and

> pecanbread.com. Pecanbread.com list Kirkman's enzym-complete/dpp

as

> legal; however, the this section of the website hasn't been updated

> since '04. My son's DAN! Dr. suggested we start using EnZym-

> Complete

> II DPP-IV Isogest™ Formula, which she said is a " newer "

> formulation.

> I did purchase a bottle and have given it to my son, but feel

> somewhat

> uncomfortable b/c I can't find it on the approved list (maybe

> because

> its newer???).

>

> As long as I'm typing....Today my son's teacher asked me to come in

> and discuss my son's increased aggression. My son is a 5 year old

> w/

> autism who is in an early childhood special education class. His

> teacher feels certain that his aggression is attributable to this

> diet. The start date of the aggression (hitting, scratching,

biting

> the teacher, and scratching, pushing other children) did start

about

> a

> month ago, at the same time we started the diet. She really wants

> us

> to get off the diet, but I told her that I felt it was the best

> course

> of action for my son. I asked her to please give it a couple of

> more

> months, but she felt that the other children were in jeapardy and

> said

> she would have to talk to the school administration about letting

> him

> stay in school if we continued the diet. I tried to explain that

> the

> problem could be due to yeast die off / detoxification of the body,

> but she still felt very uncomfortable and wanted to know how long

> this

> would go on. I really couldn't give her an answer. (I did provide

> her with quite a bit of printed info. off pecanbread.com to explain

> the diet and my line of thinking). Anyway, I also wonder if some

of

> the aggression is due to the diet along with his ever continuing

> (even

> before SCD) constipation. Does anybody have any thoughts on my

> situation? I sure would appreciate any advice.

>

> Thanks so much, Melinda

>

>

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the

book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the

following websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I absolutely agree, every child is different, and different enzymes work for

each child.When enzymes are " prescribed " by a physician, it is important to

realize that enzymes must be " individually " matched to a child, despite what the

physician thinks is best, or their favorite. What is better for one child may

not be for another, but parents don't always realize that when they get

prescribed an enzyme. Enzymes are absolutely so individual, each protease and

where it is derived, works on seperate issues...and some people do better with

fungal derived enzymes like Houston's or Kirkman's, while others seem to do

better with pancreatic enzymes, etc.

The school district may not be able to tell someone what they need to do in

regards to health issues, but some may require a signed letter from the

prescribing physician if the supplements/special food choices must be given by

school personnel and or supervised by school personnel, so if you find something

better than the " prescriber " unless the physician is on board, you may need a

public school advocate on your side.

I do know that PRE-SCD when we were enrolled in the school district, goldfish

cracker snacks were the norm without a physician signed waiver, and parents at

the end of the IEP process were made to understand, that, in order to accept

services by the school district, a signiture for authorization of the school

district to advise and medicate students must be given, including the license of

the school to warrent medication of their choice.

Maybe this is a state thing, maybe this is an individual district thing, I

don't know, but some school districts will attempt to tell you what you can and

cannot do, and if you accept services, it is what is on the IEP, not the parents

decision, that goes. The proof of burden then is on the parent. Just things to

keep in mind. A little off topic about whether SCD causes aggression or not. lol

My experience.

Summer

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hey Sheila,

Thanks for the response. He is eating too much almond flour - midas

gold pancakes (I sneak the supplements in these), pumpkin cookies,

carrot muffins, zuchini muffins. I know Elaine said in BTVC to eat

no more than 4 muffins (or equivalent)/day. We are over this

limit. He also eats apples, peeled & uncooked (which I've actually

stopped b/c I was finding " chunks " of them in his poop). I tried to

cook the apples and he wanted no part of them. He also eats chicken

nuggets (scd legal, homemade), hamburgers (btw, there is a WONDERFUL

recipe for " classic burgers " in the Grain Free Gourmet), and

Wellshire Farms Hotdogs (beef, water, salt, honey, natural spices).

Those probably aren't scd legal. I have given him bananas (very

ripe w/ brown spots), but they seem to keep him up at night and make

him sort of crazy (lots of stimming/running around).

Supplements: CLO (Nordic Naturals, plain), magnesium citramate

(Thorne), folacal (Thorne), thera response (Kirkman), Co-Q-10

(Klaire), Taurine (Thorne), Vitamin C (Kirkman), the Kirkman's

enzyme (sporadically), acidophilus lactobacillus (Kirkman). I

didn't start the probiotic until the last week or so, but I think I

may have given him too much to start with. I gave him one capsule

with some diluted juice (per dr.s orders), but after thinking about

all this, I went back and read in BTVC. I see that I should have

started " slowly " and and worked up to 1 capsule/day. This may have

attributed to some of that aggression, but not all b/c I started

giving him the probiotic after the teacher started reporting the

aggression.

Thank you for suggesting the epsom salt baths!! The last couple

have been winners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> Hi Melinda,

>

> > My son's DAN! Dr. suggested we start using EnZym-

> > Complete

> > II DPP-IV Isogest™ Formula, which she said is a " newer "

> > formulation.

>

> It is legal.

>

> > Anyway, I also wonder if some of

> > the aggression is due to the diet along with his ever continuing

> > (even

> > before SCD) constipation. Does anybody have any thoughts on my

> > situation? I sure would appreciate any advice.

>

> Some behaviours like this have been reported with constipation.

> What is he eating and how is the food cooked (peeled etc.)? Any

> supplements, other enzymes etc.?

>

> Have you tried epsom salt baths?

>

> Sheila, SCD 58 mos, 21 yrs UC

> mom of , SCD 43 mos

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks!!

> Let her talk to the school administrators; how can they have a

problem with you putting your child on a healthier diet?

>

> Listen to your heart and your mind; not her!

>

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

> From: " mbosworth65 "

>

> > Hello List Mates,

> >

> > I have a question on legal enzymes. I've searched the database

and

> > pecanbread.com. Pecanbread.com list Kirkman's enzym-complete/dpp

as

> > legal; however, the this section of the website hasn't been

updated

> > since '04. My son's DAN! Dr. suggested we start using EnZym-

> > Complete

> > II DPP-IV Isogest™ Formula, which she said is a " newer "

> > formulation.

> > I did purchase a bottle and have given it to my son, but feel

> > somewhat

> > uncomfortable b/c I can't find it on the approved list (maybe

> > because

> > its newer???).

> >

> > As long as I'm typing....Today my son's teacher asked me to come

in

> > and discuss my son's increased aggression. My son is a 5 year

old

> > w/

> > autism who is in an early childhood special education class. His

> > teacher feels certain that his aggression is attributable to

this

> > diet. The start date of the aggression (hitting, scratching,

biting

> > the teacher, and scratching, pushing other children) did start

about

> > a

> > month ago, at the same time we started the diet. She really

wants

> > us

> > to get off the diet, but I told her that I felt it was the best

> > course

> > of action for my son. I asked her to please give it a couple of

> > more

> > months, but she felt that the other children were in jeapardy

and

> > said

> > she would have to talk to the school administration about

letting

> > him

> > stay in school if we continued the diet. I tried to explain that

> > the

> > problem could be due to yeast die off / detoxification of the

body,

> > but she still felt very uncomfortable and wanted to know how

long

> > this

> > would go on. I really couldn't give her an answer. (I did

provide

> > her with quite a bit of printed info. off pecanbread.com to

explain

> > the diet and my line of thinking). Anyway, I also wonder if some

of

> > the aggression is due to the diet along with his ever continuing

> > (even

> > before SCD) constipation. Does anybody have any thoughts on my

> > situation? I sure would appreciate any advice.

> >

> > Thanks so much, Melinda

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read

the book

> > _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the

following

> > websites:

> > http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> > and

> > http://www.pecanbread.com

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Summer,

Thanks so much for your response!! I will look into the Houston's

products and will take your advice about going back to the intro

diet and adding a new food every two weeks. I also like your

suggestion of doing the journal.

Melinda

>

> I can't answer your question about the isgest legality. I do

believe it is legal, but I am not positive on that. Carol can answer

that question. I will say that the Houston enzymes we take are ten

times better than both the old formulation and the isogest

formulation from Kirkman...

> SCD does not cause aggression. If anything, SCD eliminates

aggression. I understand the teachers concern for the other pupils,

and her grasping to find a solution.

>

> Food allergies and sensitivities cause aggression, especially

when it starts in out of the blue. Your son is eating something he

is sensitive to. It could also be a matter of too many phenols in

the diet. If he has an underlying yeast problem, that could be part

of the equation. It is possible your son has a sensitivity to

something in the isogest as well, since you just begun it.

>

> My advice and opinion, when problems like these occur, stop, go

back to the intro diet for a week, then add no more than one new

food per week (this includes supplements) and keep a good food

journal. It is important to go slow when you are trying to diagnose

and isolate food sensitivities, as a sensitivity can cause mood

changes, digestive problems, behavoir problems, reduced learning

capacity, less awareness, hyperactivity, stimming and aggression,

just to name a Few. In fact, I honestly think the 2 week rule is

better, intoducing one new food every two weeks, at least until you

get a hang of what you are looking for. Reactions can be immediate,

but for most sensitivities my own family has experienced, they take

a full week or two to be fully evident.

> So, to sum up, SCD does not cause aggression. Any food can cause

aggression if the body has a sensitivity to it, or it enters the

blood stream only partially digested...this can happen on any diet.

I do believe compounding matters for your son, he has some die off

happening as well.

>

> Just my opinion,

> Summer and Family, SCD 14 months

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

Thanks for your response. Wow, so you guys do better w/ Kirkmans,

rather than Houston products. Yep, you are right, every child is

different. I very much like your idea of not telling the school

about making diet/supp. changes.

Melinda

>

> My son does 100% better with the original Kirkmans and the Iogest

> formula than the Houston enzymes. Every child is different; what

is

> better for one child may be terrible for another.

>

> Iogest is SCD legal.

>

> The school district cannot tell you what to do in regards to

health

> issues. It is the parents decision. I never tell the school when

I'm

> changing something or adding something to my son's diet/supps. I

> then get independent reflection of improvements or regressions in

> the daily long.

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

Summer, thanks again for more great advice!!

Melinda

>

> I absolutely agree, every child is different, and different

enzymes work for each child.When enzymes are " prescribed " by a

physician, it is important to realize that enzymes must

be " individually " matched to a child, despite what the physician

thinks is best, or their favorite. What is better for one child may

not be for another, but parents don't always realize that when they

get prescribed an enzyme. Enzymes are absolutely so individual, each

protease and where it is derived, works on seperate issues...and

some people do better with fungal derived enzymes like Houston's or

Kirkman's, while others seem to do better with pancreatic enzymes,

etc.

>

> The school district may not be able to tell someone what they

need to do in regards to health issues, but some may require a

signed letter from the prescribing physician if the

supplements/special food choices must be given by school personnel

and or supervised by school personnel, so if you find something

better than the " prescriber " unless the physician is on board, you

may need a public school advocate on your side.

>

> I do know that PRE-SCD when we were enrolled in the school

district, goldfish cracker snacks were the norm without a physician

signed waiver, and parents at the end of the IEP process were made

to understand, that, in order to accept services by the school

district, a signiture for authorization of the school district to

advise and medicate students must be given, including the license of

the school to warrent medication of their choice.

>

> Maybe this is a state thing, maybe this is an individual

district thing, I don't know, but some school districts will attempt

to tell you what you can and cannot do, and if you accept services,

it is what is on the IEP, not the parents decision, that goes. The

proof of burden then is on the parent. Just things to keep in mind.

A little off topic about whether SCD causes aggression or not. lol

My experience.

> Summer

[Guest guest]

Debbie,

Thanks for your response! I totally agree that the holiday would be

a great time to back up a bit here. You gals are so right about

figuring out the culprits. I realize that was doing some things

wrong (i.e. adding too much food too fast, giving raw apples!).

I've also added some of the supplements (again not slowly) while

he's been on the diet. I have given mag citramate (not citrate) and

vitamin C in hopes of curing the constipation.

Melinda

In pecanbread , " debkirk3 " wrote:

>

> Melinda, my son will get aggressive when he isn't tolerating a

food

> or supplement. Apples are a big culprit with my son. I don't

know

> what your son is eating, but just make sure you are peeling and

> cooking your fruits and vegetables. Is he eating any new fruits

and

> vegetables since starting the SCD? Did you start any new

> supplement? I agree with Summer, it isn't the diet that is

causing

> the aggression, it is something or possibly more than one thing he

> is eating or taking now that is causing it. If he is out of

school

> for the holiday, it would be a great time to go back to the

> beginning and start really slow, watching for any reactions. My

son

> also has problem behaviors when he is really constipated. It can

> really get bad when he is constipated and has eaten a food or

foods

> he doesn't tolerate. The constipation keeps the food in his bowel

> and continues to dump the toxins into his system. Have you tried

> magnesium oxide, magnesium citrate, vitamin C powder with your son

> for his constipation? The magnesium oxide has been a major help

> with my son's problem.

>

> Debbie, Carson's mom age 3 ASD, SCD 15 months