Re: Re: My opinion about enzymes and Freeda vitamins

September 19, 2005

I understand that the protocol is old. It is merely an opinion. We too, had

success on SCD way before we introduced enzymes, but after enzymes, the success

tripled. No supplement is appropriate for everybody, I do agree. However, the

same issues that bring people to SCD in the first place, are also the same

reasons someone with ASD would consider enzymes. Nothing works for everybody, of

course not, but as another member mentioned, one parents success story should

not be used to make anything mandatory. Well, I do want to point out, I am not

just one parent. I have seen more proof of the progress made with other families

using enzymes then not, so that apparently works both ways.

I am also NOT asking anything be made MANDATORY. Not that enzymes aren't

required. I was merely pointing out " optional " does not quite impart that

enzymes should be seriously considered, if at all possible. Again, like any

supplement, some people, especially those with severe gut problems, may not find

ones they can tolerate, that help, or may have to go on a very slow enzyme

introduction plan. There is freedom of choice, but if a mom doesn't run away

because of introducing yogurt gradually, and being aware of reactions, why would

it be any different with enzymes. Any new supplement should be given in such a

fashion, period.

I do not want to give anyone an excuse to run away from the diet, the complete

opposite. Enzymes may help some people stay, and that's the usefullness of

bringing the topic up, IMO. Talking about an enzyme policy, or simply an

additional statement other that " optional " can only be a good discussion point

if people discuss it, before rushing to discussions of what should be mandatory

or not, reworded, etc. That is my opinion. I do not believe I have come to this

table with any less than any other parent here.

***sigh*** I guess there is just so much SCD talk one person can do for one

night.

Summer

recoverymaze recoverymaze@...> wrote:

Summer,

The protocol was written a long,long time ago. I reposted it because I

am concerned about our kids consuming too many nut products.

At the time that I wrote it,suggesting enzymes in a SCD list was

radical. I did not have a lot of time yesterday to formulate an enzyme

policy. If I had written that enzymes were required,many new mothers

would say to themselves:my kid cannot tolerate enzymes;therefore I can

go back to good ole GFCF and easy to make foods. Most of the mothers

who visit our list do not stay....many have admitted that they hate

SCD because they would have to make their own bread. DO we need to

give them an excuse to run away from this diet?

BTW,I really understand their feelings. Our mothers are overwhelmed by

treatments,lack of sleep from being awakened by their kids,exhaustion

from needing to watch the kids.....

I do buy enzymes for my children and think that they are a good thing

to try. However,some children might not tolerate them. I also believe

in giving parents the right to choose the supplements that their

children need. For me to try to formulate a supplement policy would be

an enormous undertaking. I am exhausted and ready to run to bed...

Mimi

PS,Message to the parents who object to the lack of ready made SCD

products:

Please find someone in your area to cook for you. There are may lonely

older women who love cooking for free. There are also two companies

that were instructed by Elaine on how to make SCD breads and cookies.

I will write about them when I am more awake;I do not need any more

controversies. LOL

> I think it is important for folks to understand that enzymes are

part of SCD for ASD kids. Maybe not mandatory per the SCD book, but

when I think of my family, with two kids recovering from autsim and

asd, and all the other people I know using enzymes, it is impossible

to deny they are NOT optional, but a much needed part to the ASD

equation. Yes, SCD can be done without using additional enzymes, but

especially for anyone new to the diet with ASD kids, enzymes are not

optional, but mandatory for improving past the limits.

>

> This is not to downplay following SCD. For us, following SCD is both

enjoyable and an absolute necessity, diet is the primary necessity. I

merely mention my observations, because it breaks my heart to read

that recommendations for ASD kids following this diet, enzymes are

described as optional. At the very least, while the diet can be

followed without enzymes, they are necessary for most ASD kids.

>

> About Freeda Vitamins, maybe they are excellent for some folks? But,

I haven't seem them personally do anything in helping to achieve or

maintain health in ASD kids, and this is from my experience, and a few

other families I know. This does not mean they may not be healthful to

most people. I just want to put my two cents in for a fair and

balanced view of some of these recommendations, as a mom with two

sons, on spectrum, SCD for 1 year. The most important things that

have helped this family are

> 1)SCDiet

> 2)enzymes

> 3)Proper vitamin/mineral supplementation ('s protocol, mixed

with our own)

> 4)Clean water (ie..no city water, not even filtered city water)

>

> Summer

>

> __________________________________________________

>

September 19, 2005

Help! My daughter has been taking Acid Easy digestive enzymes by PreVail

for years and they have helped her a lot with assimilating and digesting

food and growth. However, I just noticed though the bottle says they have

" no sugar, salt, yeasty, wheat, gluten, corn, soy, dairy, artificial

coloring, artificial flavoring, or preservatives " , one of the enzymes listed

Gamma-orzanol is made from rice bran so now that we are on the SCD I need to

change. Does anyone know what the enzymes in Kirkmans Enzymeaid are made

from? I am presuming since they are legal that there is no rice bran in

them. My daughter is sensitive to citrus--just wanted to make sure that

also would not be in them.

Marilyn

daughter, age 20

epilepsy and autism problems

Re: Re: My opinion about enzymes and Freeda vitamins

>I understand that the protocol is old. It is merely an opinion. We too, had

>success on SCD way before we introduced enzymes, but after enzymes, the

>success tripled. No supplement is appropriate for everybody, I do agree.

>However, the same issues that bring people to SCD in the first place, are

>also the same reasons someone with ASD would consider enzymes. Nothing

>works for everybody, of course not, but as another member mentioned, one

>parents success story should not be used to make anything mandatory. Well,

>I do want to point out, I am not just one parent. I have seen more proof of

>the progress made with other families using enzymes then not, so that

>apparently works both ways.

>

> I am also NOT asking anything be made MANDATORY. Not that enzymes aren't

> required. I was merely pointing out " optional " does not quite impart that

> enzymes should be seriously considered, if at all possible. Again, like

> any supplement, some people, especially those with severe gut problems,

> may not find ones they can tolerate, that help, or may have to go on a

> very slow enzyme introduction plan. There is freedom of choice, but if a

> mom doesn't run away because of introducing yogurt gradually, and being

> aware of reactions, why would it be any different with enzymes. Any new

> supplement should be given in such a fashion, period.

>

> I do not want to give anyone an excuse to run away from the diet, the

> complete opposite. Enzymes may help some people stay, and that's the

> usefullness of bringing the topic up, IMO. Talking about an enzyme policy,

> or simply an additional statement other that " optional " can only be a good

> discussion point if people discuss it, before rushing to discussions of

> what should be mandatory or not, reworded, etc. That is my opinion. I do

> not believe I have come to this table with any less than any other parent

> here.

>

> ***sigh*** I guess there is just so much SCD talk one person can do for

> one night.

>

> Summer

>

> recoverymaze recoverymaze@...> wrote:

> Summer,

>

> The protocol was written a long,long time ago. I reposted it because I

> am concerned about our kids consuming too many nut products.

>

> At the time that I wrote it,suggesting enzymes in a SCD list was

> radical. I did not have a lot of time yesterday to formulate an enzyme

> policy. If I had written that enzymes were required,many new mothers

> would say to themselves:my kid cannot tolerate enzymes;therefore I can

> go back to good ole GFCF and easy to make foods. Most of the mothers

> who visit our list do not stay....many have admitted that they hate

> SCD because they would have to make their own bread. DO we need to

> give them an excuse to run away from this diet?

>

> BTW,I really understand their feelings. Our mothers are overwhelmed by

> treatments,lack of sleep from being awakened by their kids,exhaustion

> from needing to watch the kids.....

>

> I do buy enzymes for my children and think that they are a good thing

> to try. However,some children might not tolerate them. I also believe

> in giving parents the right to choose the supplements that their

> children need. For me to try to formulate a supplement policy would be

> an enormous undertaking. I am exhausted and ready to run to bed...

>

> Mimi

>

> PS,Message to the parents who object to the lack of ready made SCD

> products:

> Please find someone in your area to cook for you. There are may lonely

> older women who love cooking for free. There are also two companies

> that were instructed by Elaine on how to make SCD breads and cookies.

> I will write about them when I am more awake;I do not need any more

> controversies. LOL

>

>> I think it is important for folks to understand that enzymes are

> part of SCD for ASD kids. Maybe not mandatory per the SCD book, but

> when I think of my family, with two kids recovering from autsim and

> asd, and all the other people I know using enzymes, it is impossible

> to deny they are NOT optional, but a much needed part to the ASD

> equation. Yes, SCD can be done without using additional enzymes, but

> especially for anyone new to the diet with ASD kids, enzymes are not

> optional, but mandatory for improving past the limits.

>>

>> This is not to downplay following SCD. For us, following SCD is both

> enjoyable and an absolute necessity, diet is the primary necessity. I

> merely mention my observations, because it breaks my heart to read

> that recommendations for ASD kids following this diet, enzymes are

> described as optional. At the very least, while the diet can be

> followed without enzymes, they are necessary for most ASD kids.

>>

>> About Freeda Vitamins, maybe they are excellent for some folks? But,

> I haven't seem them personally do anything in helping to achieve or

> maintain health in ASD kids, and this is from my experience, and a few

> other families I know. This does not mean they may not be healthful to

> most people. I just want to put my two cents in for a fair and

> balanced view of some of these recommendations, as a mom with two

> sons, on spectrum, SCD for 1 year. The most important things that

> have helped this family are

>> 1)SCDiet

>> 2)enzymes

>> 3)Proper vitamin/mineral supplementation ('s protocol, mixed

> with our own)

>> 4)Clean water (ie..no city water, not even filtered city water)

>>

>> Summer

>>

>> __________________________________________________

>>

September 19, 2005

I completely agree with Summer. There is an extreme benefit with the enzimes and

scd which cannot in my case be compared with scd alone. I was one of the parents

who sought enzymes did not help. I was using it in a innefective way. After

clearly trying diferent formats and finding the most effective way to use it,

the benefits were " tripled " to quote Summer. I think has harped on this

often enough and the response seems to be always the same, people take it to

personal, and decide to dismiss if it was just one person opnion. There are a

lot of parents that have come to the conclusion of the imense benefit of it, but

usually get a defensive response when the concept is introduced. I guess as the

old say go " you can lead a horse to the water...... "

September 19, 2005

Yes, I agree. And, as I started this, I'm sorry if I appeared defensive I just

don't like seeing the word on SCD protocal being spread as being anything more

than it is: Food. Enzymes help a lot of people, I know, that's why I tried them.

They are optional, another thing to try, perhaps and hopefully a good thing to

try. But they are not part and parcel to SCD anymore than B12 shots are

essential to SCD though many consider the shots highly beneficial and Elaine

recommended them. My concern was only what Carol indicated that enzymes would

become what no-fruit, no-honey became which vastly confused the diet. What if

somebody heard that enzymes were mandatory for improvement on SCD and then

decided not to try SCD because their child never did well on enzymes or because

they couldn't afford enzymes? The more that's added to the protocal or even to

the word of mouth on SCD, the more daunting it becomes to people---and it's

already pretty darn daunting when you start.

Like Mimi said, I think it's great that people spread the word of what

combination of factors worked for them. And they should feel free to do so. And

people can praise enzymes all they want, they deserve praise. But they should

not be thought of as mandatory for SCD or even success with SCD. They are a good

option to try, as is written in the protocal.

Like Carol said, we don't want another no-fruit, no-honey mess.

All that said I apologize to, I think it was Gertrude, if I came off sounding

harsh. I know what it is to be enthusiastic about something and think everybody

should do it---I'm guilty of the exact same thing myself.

Marisol

Mom to 11yo SCD since 12/01 and 8yo Lena SCD since sometime in 2002

Gertrude,

It makes sense to be concerned about enzymes since a compromised digestive sytem

interferes with the enzymes that aid digestion and they are smothered by the

layers of

mucous that form.

Use of enzymes is an individual option. It is hoped that as balance is restored

in the gut,

the enzymes will flow again and perform thir task in digestion. The whole

science behind

the diet is to effect sufficient healing to allow the digestive process to

resume optimum

functionality.

It is important that when we share embellishments that have aided us we qualify

that

although they are not proscribed in SCD, they happened to be useful to us

personally.

I say this because we had members who pulled fruit and honey right out of the

diet in fear

of yeast overgrowth and did not provide sufficient carbohydrates to prevent

ketosis.

It became a distorted version of SCD they proposed to apply generally and

without

approval by Elaine Gottschall.

Carol F.

SCD5 years, celiac

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

September 20, 2005

My daughter is just starting enzymes. She is 5 with autism. She did make

HUGE gains on the SCD and she is starting to have better poops and likes to

try more foods. I believe enzymes are necessary for her due to malabsorption

and such. Jenn & Kali 95% SCD-4 months

Re: My opinion about enzymes and Freeda vitamins

>

> > We tried enzymes for my daughter in our early days of SCD (and 3

different brands) with

> no noticeable benefit. All of our benefits came from pure SCD, nothing

else. I've been out

> of touch with this list for quite a while so maybe there's something I'm

not aware of, a

> change in protocal or something but, to my understanding, No Way are

enzymes

> mandatory for SCD w/autism. We really have to be careful making mandates

for all out of

> our own personal success with something. Moderators please feel free to

correct me on

> this.

> > Marisol

>

> I agree Marisol. SCD is getting to be like tracks in a snowstorm that

tend to disappear as

> the snow gets deeper. It used to seem simple and clear cut to me.

>

> I do take calcium, Vitamin D and magnesium supplements and a probiotic but

never knew

> I should be taking more. Summer did say this applies to the children. I

also never knew it

> was mandatory. Maybe it relates to her experience within her family.

>

> Although you may not think there are visible results, poor absorption may

not allow full

> utility of vitamins in food so vitamin supplements such as Freeda are

recommended.

>

> Would one of the moderators suggest what additional supplements are

required?

>

> I will re- read the BTVC pages on Vitamins again more carefully !

>

> Carol F., SCD 5 years, celiac

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

September 20, 2005

>>>

How about if we changed the protocol to this:

Although enzymes are not part of the original SCD,many parents have

found them to be very helpful in combination with SCD.<<<

Mimi, I think that is perfect! That way, people, especially people with trouble

on any diet, can be aware about the enzymes, SCD with appropriate enzymes blows

GF/CF with enzymes out of the water. That way, people do not have to think it is

enzymes and another diet. SCD is the one for people on the spectrum.

I am sorry folks, I know someone asked me about enzymes, maybe I can post a

little sometime. My precious neighbor is in the hospital. So, when I am able to

get back here for some chatting, I will find the question someone posted about

enzymes, fillers, etc. I believe something is posted on Elaine's website about

them too.

Summer

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September 20, 2005