Test results back

[Guest guest]

For one thing one tube of testim should have you higher but we are all not the

same. 2 tubes of Testim had me only up to 600 my labs range is 262 to 1593 so

600 is not up in the upper 1/3 of the range. You should not get that big of a

shot at one time I have heard on men starting on TRT for the first time doing

shots and getting the first shot at 200 mgs. then 100 mgs every week after that.

Can you tell how it feels now that the shot is wearing off. You feel down more

then before the shot. Did the Dr. say way he was doing a big shot like this.

You E2 Estradiol needs to be checked after a shot like this. Big shots convert

onto E2. For the best on treating low T go to this site and read TRT: A Recipe

for Success and the HCG Update.

http://www.allthingsmale.com/

I printed this out and showed it to my Dr. the first of this yr. I told him I

need to try this he read it and said ok. I now feel the best I ever felt in the

21 yrs. I have been on TRT.

Phil

don defevers <dd4459@...> wrote:

46yrs. old . beginning t level was 356. did testim 1 tube dily for 8wks, t

level checked; was 323. received 300mgs.shot.took total t test 1520 was the

result on a scale of 200 to 800. that was checked 6 days after shot. going back

to Dr.on Dec.30.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Don,

You should notice results 2-3 weeks after the injection, YMMV. Strongly advise

adding free

T & estradiol to your next tests.

300mg/injection is too high. I'm doing 120mg/week, plus a little Arimidex to

keep E2

down. That regimen was developed based on lab results, well being, & " peter

meter "

perception.

It's not uncommon for T to go down slightly 8 weeks after starting Testim. At

the start all

the 356 (ng/dL) was made by your body. The Testim would first increase T, then

reduce

your body's natural production, resulting in a net loss. Many men need to

increase

supplemental cream, gel or patch dosage after the first round. I had to do that,

then went

to injections.

Bruce

>

> 46yrs. old . beginning t level was 356. did testim 1 tube dily for 8wks, t

level checked;

was 323. received 300mgs.shot.took total t test 1520 was the result on a scale

of 200 to

800. that was checked 6 days after shot. going back to Dr.on Dec.30.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:44:54 -0000, you wrote:

>It's not uncommon for T to go down slightly 8 weeks after starting Testim. At

the start all

>the 356 (ng/dL) was made by your body. The Testim would first increase T, then

reduce

>your body's natural production, resulting in a net loss. Many men need to

increase

>supplemental cream, gel or patch dosage after the first round. I had to do

that, then went

>to injections.

I have not seen this phenomenon discussed anywhere in the scientific

literature. Shippen, however, does describe E2 rising in this same

time window to give the same effect you describe.

Page 55:

" What typically happens when an andropausal man receives an injection

of testosterone is that his testosterone levels rise sharply, and he

feels a significant improvement at first. In a relatively short time

however, a sizable portion of the hormone is converted to estrogen by

armotase. The consequent effects upon both a man's energy level and

his sex life are usually quite negative. "

He then goes on to give an example with lab numbers.

Is it possible your hypothesis is an interpretation of the estrogen

conversion? Have you found this shift in produced testosterone

described anywhere in the literature?

Natural T has a half life of 10 to 100 minutes. And the FSH/LH cycles

are quickly responsive. I don't see this weeks long shift and additive

effect you are describing as very likely.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

not to worry, i also have taken treatment it is hard yes, but with support and

learning all you can do this

<ilovemy4cats@...> wrote: I was shocked to open the

mailbox this morning & see 2 letters from my hubby's doctor, since we were just

there Friday. His AST was 59 (Normal is 0-33) and his ALT was 86 (Normal is

0-36). His viral count was 1,517,268........and he has Genotype 1a. They're

saying treatment will be 1 year. I am searching the internet right now to try &

find out more about what this all means. Can anyone with this type PLEASE tell

me more about it? THANKS!!!! I am so worried now because from what I have found

online, it is the hardest to treat.

---------------------------------

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates

starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

Hi ...

ALT and AST are enzymes given off when there is active liver cell death.

This can be caused by many things however...not just the virus.

Taking a lot of Advil for example will give similar results, as do other

types of drugs and alcohol.

My levels were in the same range when I was first tested, but my levels

have tested normal since then.

The viral load is simply how many virus per droplet of blood that are

detected...and anything over one million is often where they figure treatment

is indicated.

Genotype 1 is said to be the most resistant to treatment because it mutates

quickly...adapting to the treatment, making it useless.

Im genotype 1b and have decided not to seek treatment because of the

side effects and the risks to other organs. There are not enough long term

studies for me to feel safe trying it, and statistically those who have this

genotype relapse..so I figured why put myself thru it?

Along with the enzyme levels, his plasma proteins should have been

measured as well...how are those numbers?

particularly Albumin, and globulin

[Guest guest]

Looks as though you could be a candidate for taking the little extra T4 as Sheila does Lilian.

Luv nne

TSH 0.01

Free thyroxine 17.2 range 9 - 20. Prior to taking the 150mcg thyroxine alone and just being on 4 grains Armour the FT4 was 12.

Free T3 was 3.6 with a range of 2.5 - 5.7

[Guest guest]

>

> I have just received a copy of the test results with the TSH, T4 and

the T3 having been tested.

Were those blood tests Lilian?

[Guest guest]

Hi Lilian,

You say you felt worse on just thyroxine? There is the possibility

that your body wasn't using it. If you were feeling much better on

armour surely it suggests that you were using the T3 well.

I know I'm sounding very negative but I think the T4 could have been

quite a stressor on your body and it might have inhibited cellular

uptake of T3 which might just have made those numbers go up.

In fact, if your TSH showed 0.01 (which the docs don't like) you may

have been getting a bit too much T4 and would eventually have ended

up with an overload in the blood stream. It would have been very

interesting to see what a salivary T4 and T3 test would have shown.

Lots of hypotheticals which is exactly why people can be quite

cynical about these blood tests.

I'd say stick with what works, if at all possible.

How are you feeling now you're back on the old regime?

Luv Bella

>

> I have just received a copy of the test results with the TSH, T4

and the T3 having been tested.

>

> You will recall I stopped taking Armour for two weeks but took

150mcg of thyroxine during this time. I felt so awful by the

Friday that I decided to have the test then rather than wait any

longer.

>

> However the results look pretty good to me. What do you think?

>

> TSH 0.01

> Free thyroxine 17.2 range 9 - 20. Prior to taking the 150mcg

thyroxine alone and just being on 4 grains Armour the FT4 was 12.

> Free T3 was 3.6 with a range of 2.5 - 5.7

>

> Originally, quite a few years ago when I started having the

problems my TSH was 1.0, my T4 was 9 and my T3 was 3 (or might have

been lower).

> So obviously the years of T3 and then Armour have certainly helped

to get me a lot better.

>

> Lilian

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, they were blood tests.

Lilian

Were those blood tests Lilian?

[Guest guest]

The reason the endo has those tests done was because I told him I was taking Armour and that I would like it to be prescribed for me.

As I had stopped taking Armour for two weeks before taking the test, would the T3 still have been in the blood? I did take 150mcg of thyroxine though as I didn't want to go without anything at all.

The previous test showed I was low on T4. I wonder whether whilst on Armour the T4 is lower because it is not needed so much.

I am a lot better when taking Armour. At the moment I am taking 4 grains of Armour and 50mcg of thyroxine. I am feeling OK with this. The endo said that when someone is taking T3 their TSH is very low and was not worried about the 0.01.

Saliva tests are impossible - I just cannot produce enough saliva. I have tried all the tricks suggested to me but still could not produce enough.

I did have a 24 hour urine test before I went on T3 (and eventually Armour) which showed I was very low (under range) in T3 and suggested I was not converting.

I am wondering if perhaps now I have been having T3 and Armour for about 3 years (or more) I have started to convert properly again. Or is it, once the ability is gone it has gone for good?

May be this new endo, who seems more enlightened than the last one, might have an answer. But I am not holding my breath.

Lilian

You say you felt worse on just thyroxine? There is the possibility that your body wasn't using it. If you were feeling much better on armour surely it suggests that you were using the T3 well. I know I'm sounding very negative but I think the T4 could have been quite a stressor on your body and it might have inhibited cellular uptake of T3 which might just have made those numbers go up.

[Guest guest]

The reason the endo has those tests done was because I told him I was taking Armour and that I would like it to be prescribed for me.

Did you actually manage to persuade your GP to prescribe it yet Lilian. Perhaps once I have completed my document with over 67 references showing that Armour works better for some people - that might help persuade him

As I had stopped taking Armour for two weeks before taking the test, would the T3 still have been in the blood? I did take 150mcg of thyroxine though as I didn't want to go without anything at all.

The T3 has a very short half life and would have been well out of your body by the time you started taking 150 mcgs T4.

The previous test showed I was low on T4. I wonder whether whilst on Armour the T4 is lower because it is not needed so much.

No, your Free T4 should have been well into the upper third of the range. Perhaps as nne said, you need a little extra T4 with yhour Armour in the same way that I do.

I am a lot better when taking Armour. At the moment I am taking 4 grains of Armour and 50mcg of thyroxine. I am feeling OK with this. The endo said that when someone is taking T3 their TSH is very low and was not worried about the 0.01.

Well - how nice to have an endo who is aware of this. He sounds very promising Lilian.

I am wondering if perhaps now I have been having T3 and Armour for about 3 years (or more) I have started to convert properly again. Or is it, once the ability is gone it has gone for good?

I guess the only way of knowing this is to stop the extra T3 and only take Armour, but I don't think I would want to risk putting myself into a position where I might not feel well again. As Bella says, if you are feeling good, then you are obviously doing something right. I had to take Armpour because I was not converting, and it was proved to me that I did need a bit more T4. It's all very complicated.

May be this new endo, who seems more enlightened than the last one, might have an answer. But I am not holding my breath.

As stated before, I think he sounds promising. If he won't recommend that your GP prescribe Armour, you might ask him specifically WHY he will not do this. I am sure we could sort out any worries he has and give him the reassurance he needs - if, of course, he is willing to listen.

Luv - Sheila

Lilian

You say you felt worse on just thyroxine? There is the possibility that your body wasn't using it. If you were feeling much better on armour surely it suggests that you were using the T3 well. I know I'm sounding very negative but I think the T4 could have been quite a stressor on your body and it might have inhibited cellular uptake of T3 which might just have made those numbers go up.

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.2/1185 - Release Date: 15/12/2007 12:00

[Guest guest]

Hi lilian,

Interesting test results- even if they just show very little and mean less IMHO

There can be no chance that T3 from

the Armour would remain in your system that long- it’s completely gone

after only 1-2 days.

Also just because it’s there

in the blood doesn’t mean it can get into the cells- which is why you

fely so ill on T4 alone. I understand because the same happens to me.

It is usual to be lowish in T4 when

on Armour as the higher than normal T3 content means not so much is needed-

after all T4 is quite inert until is is converted. The complicated biochemics

are in Dr. P’s book.

Re:

Re: test results back

The reason the endo has those tests done was because I told him I

was taking Armour and that I would like it to be prescribed for me.

As I had stopped taking Armour for two weeks before taking the

test, would the T3 still have been in the blood? I did

take 150mcg of thyroxine though as I didn't want to go without anything at

all.

The previous test showed I was low on T4. I wonder

whether whilst on Armour the T4 is lower because it is not needed so

much.

I am a lot better when taking Armour. At the

moment I am taking 4 grains of Armour and 50mcg of

thyroxine. I am feeling OK with this.

The endo said that when someone is taking T3 their TSH is very low and was not

worried about the 0.01.

Saliva tests are impossible - I just cannot produce enough

saliva. I have tried all the tricks suggested to me but still

could not produce enough.

I did have a 24 hour urine test before I went on T3 (and eventually

Armour) which showed I was very low (under range) in T3 and suggested I was not

converting.

I am wondering if perhaps now I have been having T3 and Armour for

about 3 years (or more) I have started to convert properly

again. Or is it, once the ability is gone it has gone for

good?

May be this new endo, who seems more enlightened than the last one,

might have an answer. But I am not holding my

breath.

Lilian

You say you felt worse on just

thyroxine? There is the possibility

that your body wasn't using it. If you were feeling much better on

armour surely it suggests that you were using the T3 well.

I know I'm sounding very negative but I think the T4 could have been

quite a stressor on your body and it might have inhibited cellular

uptake of T3 which might just have made those numbers go up.

[Guest guest]

I phoned Forest re this point and they confirmed that the T3 in armour has a half life of 2-3 days & the T4 6-7 days, if I remember correctly. This means that after 2-3 days there will still be half of the T3 you took, and after a further 2-3 days there will still be 1/4 of the drug left.

Val

There can be no chance that T3 from the Armour would remain in your systemthat long- it's completely gone after only 1-2 days.

[Guest guest]

Patty, what are your bili numbers ? ?

and what does your lab say the normals are ? ?

Dede**************Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002)

[Guest guest]

I picked up my lab results today and am for the most part pleased, although there are a couple things that are "off." On a good note, my C3 complement is back in normal ranges! Yay!On the other hand, my C4 is now elevated, but only slightly. It came in at 38 on a range of 9 to 36. My C3 used to be pretty low, at around 60 and as low as the 40's, but in 2009, it's finally back to 104--completely within the normal range. I'm happy about that!So, ladies, abnormal blood tests can go completely normal again! Keep up the hope that your tests will return to normal if you've had abnormal results in the past.This time, my Bilirubin is high also. I assume that has something to do with the scorpion sting, but I have no idea, so I will keep watch on it. All other liver enzymes were

normal.Kidney function must be good, as everything else is within normal ranges.I wish I felt as good as my blood tests show...I still have some visual disturbances, but I think I just need to keep rested up, and do some definite cleansings. I think I'll do a liver flush soon.Hope all of you are having a good day today. Sending hugs,Patty

[Guest guest]

Hi Dede,

I tested at 1.5, when normal range is 0.1 to 1.2. I checked around on the

internet a little yesterday, but not sure yet what to think. Do you know what it

means?

Thanks Dede!

Patty

>

> Patty, what are your bili numbers ? ?

> and what does your lab say the normals are ? ?

> Dede

>

>

> **************

> Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do

> in the U.S.

>

(http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntus\

trav00000002)

>

[Guest guest]

Hello there again, Patty, am sorry I've been busy, when I was about to read your email, I had an emergency house call... okay, allow me to answer your letter:Thank you so much.....Welcome to our group! - Thank you for allowing me to join the group. =)I hope you will read

our stories in the file section of what our women have endured.- I will try my best to read.As you know, most doctors don't believe that implants make women ill, but over the past 9 years that this group has existed, we've seen hundreds and hundreds of women come forward with implant associated illness, and we've seen many of those women regain health once their implants are removed. - Umm, I understand what you mean, I do believe that the breast implants do cause harm to the body, that is why proper information dissemination must be done, especially by the doctors that breast implants, must be replaced or removed after five years. This is due to the immune reaction that forms. I actually have seen a lot of cases with my patients during

implant removal, how the body reacts to the implants. Just a month ago, I have removed implants from a patient of mine and they have been with her for 8 years already. The area where the

implants were placed, we found body fluids that are consistent with the body's reaction to the non-self, foreign body implants.We don't guarantee that the women will get better with explant alone, because there is so much more going on with the immune system. Detoxing the body is usually very, very necessary. I am one who got better once my implants were removed and I took control of my health by detoxing with fasting, colonics, coffee enemas and more. It took 4 long years.- I also advice my patients to start eating right and getting enough rest, since rest and nutrition are the hallmarks of a healthy immune system.I should

define those words "got better." It means that I was able to return to living a productive life with energy and ability. Before that, I was so fatigued and poisoned-feeling that I could not function normally at all. Everything about living was a chore. After several years of detoxing post-explant, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's autoimmune thyroid disease, but live well despite this diagnosis, because I continue to detox, and I take armour thyroid meds. - Did you specify during your previous posts your detox protocol / procedure? Did someone advise you to start this or was it a trial and error thing? I am very interested with your method of detoxification.So, in answer to your inquiry regarding my test, I was doing a follow up visit with an Immunologist due to a scorpion

sting. I was concerned about the long term affects on my immune system, since scorpion venom is a neurotoxin. - it's one of the best example of a "poison", it damages multi-systemically, which means, it also destroys blood cells and other tissues hence promoting bleeding on most patients who had scorpion stings.I was hospitalized for 2 days, where they gave me ativan and some type of steroid to keep the inflammation down.- the protocol would be to inject an anti-venum, but the problem with that is it has to be "scorpion-specific" which means they have to know the exact sub species of the scorpion, which is by itself already

hard to do, then the harder part is getting the anti-venum which isn't readily available.Three weeks after the hospitalization, I tested high on Total Bilirubin at 1.5 on a scale where 1.2 was the upper limit of normal. I also tested high on Complement C4, at 38 with a range of 9-36. All other test results were normal (Immunoglobulins A, G, M, E, liver enzymes, Sed rate, C-Reactive protein. In the past, I've tested low on Complement C3, but that reading was in normal ranges finally.) - the bilirubin increase is due to the blood that was damaged, since bilirubin comes from the remnants of blood degradation. Based on your other tests, your case is more of a low poisoning type, so just give your body time to recover.I appreciate your willingness to offer some form of interpretation. .thank you! I am happy to see you join us, and am hopeful that we can work together to help women find answers that they are not able to get from their other doctors regarding their illnesses.- I am thankful that I was allowed to join the group and offer any help that I can.From: glory2glory1401 <glory2glory1401@...>Subject: Re: Test results back Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 11:11 PM

Hi Dr. Tan,

Thank you so much.....Welcome to our group! I am pleased to have you join us, and very pleased that you are looking into the issues we have experienced with breast implants. I hope you will read our stories in the file section of what our women have endured.

As you know, most doctors don't believe that implants make women ill, but over the past 9 years that this group has existed, we've seen hundreds and hundreds of women come forward with implant associated illness, and we've seen many of those women regain health once their implants are removed. We don't guarantee that the women will get better with explant alone, because there is so much more going on with the immune system. Detoxing the body is usually very, very necessary. I am one who got better once my implants were removed and I took control of my health by detoxing with fasting, colonics, coffee enemas and more. It took 4 long years.

I should define those words "got better." It means that I was able to return to living a productive life with energy and ability. Before that, I was so fatigued and poisoned-feeling that I could not function normally at all. Everything about living was a chore. After several years of detoxing post-explant, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's autoimmune thyroid disease, but live well despite this diagnosis, because I continue to detox, and I take armour thyroid meds.

So, in answer to your inquiry regarding my test, I was doing a follow up visit with an Immunologist due to a scorpion sting. I was concerned about the long term affects on my immune system, since scorpion venom is a neurotoxin. I was hospitalized for 2 days, where they gave me ativan and some type of steroid to keep the inflammation down.

Three weeks after the hospitalization, I tested high on Total Bilirubin at 1.5 on a scale where 1.2 was the upper limit of normal. I also tested high on Complement C4, at 38 with a range of 9-36. All other test results were normal (Immunoglobulins A, G, M, E, liver enzymes, Sed rate, C-Reactive protein. In the past, I've tested low on Complement C3, but that reading was in normal ranges finally.)

I appreciate your willingness to offer some form of interpretation. .thank you! I am happy to see you join us, and am hopeful that we can work together to help women find answers that they are not able to get from their other doctors regarding their illnesses.

Patty

>

> Hi Patty,

>

> I am , I'm a doctor and a new member of the list, I have only read the messages I've received since I joined yesterday, I still haven't read the older posts. Maybe you can tell me what test you had done and the result so that I can interpret them for you.

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _______

>

> Erwin T. Tan, MD

>

> Re: Re: Test results back

>

>

>

> Patty ~

> It means that your liver is struggeling a bit.......

> could be from the medicines or venom you

> had

> Medicines that may increase bilirubin levels. This includes many antibiotics, some types of birth control pills, indomethacin (Indocin), phenytoin (Dilantin), diazepam (Valium), and flurazepam (Dalmane).

>

> I have read where prednisone can bring down bilirubin... ......but. ...

> dont trust what I am saying....because I dont know, I did know a high one

> wasnt good........ .so I looked it up at Quest.....a corning owned lab.....eW

> Were you on any of those meds ? ?

> Have you been drinking wine ? ?

> Did you have liver function tests done ? ? or a complete metabolic panel ? ?

> I would talk to the doc about it, and see what they say....keep me posted

> I would like to know the answer to that one........

>

>

>

> ************ **

> Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. (http://travel. aol.com/travel- ideas/domestic/ national- tourism-week? ncid=emlcntustra v00000002)

>

>

> [The entire original message is not included]

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,Thanks so much for your input! It is greatly appreciated. I was able to breathe a sigh of relief about the Bilirubin, and I'll try not to feel bad about taking time to rest up! I'll answer your other questions, below in colored font: > > >> > > Hi Patty,> > > > > > I am , I'm a doctor and a new member of the list, I have only read the messages I've received since I joined yesterday, I still haven't read the older posts. Maybe you can tell me what test you had done and the result so that I can interpret them for you.> > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _______> > > > > > Erwin T. Tan, MD> > > > > > Re: Re: Test results back> > > > > > > > > > > > Patty ~ > > > It means that your liver is struggeling a bit.......> > > could be from the medicines or venom you> > > had> > > Medicines that may increase bilirubin levels. This includes many antibiotics, some types of birth control pills, indomethacin (Indocin), phenytoin (Dilantin), diazepam (Valium), and flurazepam (Dalmane).> > > > > > I have read where prednisone can bring down bilirubin... ......but. ...> > > dont trust what I am saying....because I dont know, I did know a high one> > > wasnt good........ .so I looked it up at Quest.....a corning owned lab.....eW> > > Were you on any of those meds ? ? > > > Have you been drinking wine ? ? > > > Did you have liver function tests done ? ? or a complete metabolic panel ? ? > > > I would talk to the doc about it, and see what they say....keep me posted> > > I would like to know the answer to that one........> > > > > > > > > > > > ************ **> > > Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. (http://travel. aol.com/travel- ideas/domestic/ national- tourism-week? ncid=emlcntustra v00000002) > > > > > > > > > [The entire original message is not included]> > >>