Guest guest Posted December 9, 1999 Report Share Posted December 9, 1999 Avacado is the only one I know of a right now. I am still studing the foods that I can have and what is good for me. I really need some vegitarian recipies. Could you share please? Myra essential fatty acids From: a Perza <chestnutt@...> There has been talk of the fact that essential fatty acids are good in getting rid of the yeast. Can someone please suggest what foods these EFAs can be found in. I do not eat any fish or sea-food. Mostly a vegitarian for the most part. Would appreciate any assistance in this area.. Thanx all, Best to you, a _ Subscription URL: /subscribe.cgi/candidiasis Send blank message to this e-mail address if you want to: TO UNSUBSCRIBE !!!!!!!!! : candidiasis-unsubscribeonelist To change status from normal to digest: candidiasis-digestonelist To change status from digest to normal: candidiasis-normalonelist To subscribe: candidiasis-subscribeonelist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 1999 Report Share Posted December 9, 1999 In a message dated 12/9/99 12:57:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, chestnutt@... writes: << There has been talk of the fact that essential fatty acids are good in getting rid of the yeast. Can someone please suggest what foods these EFAs can be found in. I do not eat any fish or sea-food. Mostly a vegitarian for the most part. >> I am vegetarian and I take flax seed oil pills, also you can use flax seeds on cereal or in baked goods, or flaxseed oil in salad dressing. Any health food store also sells EFA pills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 1999 Report Share Posted December 9, 1999 In a message dated 12/9/99 2:31:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, jdrsr@... writes: << Avacado is the only one I know of a right now. I am still studing the foods that I can have and what is good for me. I really need some vegitarian recipies. Could you share please? Myra >> Olive oil is good too. Try the vegetarian times site, they have good recipes. Ive been vegetarian for about 12 years, now I'm vegan...I still get plenty to eat even though Im off yeast and wheat too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Thank you for the info. Cheerfully, Myra Re: essential fatty acids From: FemDomSoc@... In a message dated 12/9/99 2:31:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, jdrsr@... writes: << Avacado is the only one I know of a right now. I am still studing the foods that I can have and what is good for me. I really need some vegitarian recipies. Could you share please? Myra >> Olive oil is good too. Try the vegetarian times site, they have good recipes. Ive been vegetarian for about 12 years, now I'm vegan...I still get plenty to eat even though Im off yeast and wheat too.. _ Subscription URL: /subscribe.cgi/candidiasis Send blank message to this e-mail address if you want to: TO UNSUBSCRIBE !!!!!!!!! : candidiasis-unsubscribeonelist To change status from normal to digest: candidiasis-digestonelist To change status from digest to normal: candidiasis-normalonelist To subscribe: candidiasis-subscribeonelist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 In a message dated 12/9/99 9:27:34 PM Central Standard Time, FemDomSoc@... writes: << Olive oil is good too. Try the vegetarian times site, they have good recipes. Ive been vegetarian for about 12 years, now I'm vegan...I still get plenty to eat even though Im off yeast and wheat too. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ How old are you ? I'm 50 and have been a vegetarian for 14 yrs. Most young people are one for fad reasons but you seem to do it for health. Good for you. I also use flax oil. It's the only thing I use on salads with easy soy, fresh squeezed lemon and vege-sal. Flax oil and a little cayenne are good on baked potatoes. For a balance of omega 3 and 6, I think EPO should also be taken. Edith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Thank you, , for the name of the magazine. The web URL is http://www.vegetariantimes.com for anyone interested in going there. Recently Maureen Salaman mentioned(hope recall of info is correct) that borage oil is very good as an EFA and less expensive than flax seed oil. Have you tried this or know anything about it being a good substitute? Also, I'm interested in the difference between a vegetarian and a vegan in relationship to how changing has helped you with candida concerns. What do you eat for protein? Any information you can share is greatly appreciated. Yours in Christ, Joyce : ) http://www.precept.org ---------- > From: FemDomSoc@... > candidiasisonelist > Subject: Re: essential fatty acids > Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 10:27 PM > > From: FemDomSoc@... > > Olive oil is good too. Try the vegetarian times site, they have good recipes. > Ive been vegetarian for about 12 years, now I'm vegan...I still get plenty to > eat even though Im off yeast and wheat too. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Flax seed and flax seed oil is a great source of EFA , you can even find at HFS oil labelled EFA oil. It is wonderful tasting, I use it nearly everyday. a Perza <chestnutt@...> wrote: There has been talk of the fact that essential fatty acids are good in getting rid of the yeast. Can someone please suggest what foods these EFAs can be found in. I do not eat any fish or sea-food. Mostly a vegitarian for the most part. Would appreciate any assistance in this area. Thanx all, Best to you, a ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _ Subscription URL: /subscribe.cgi/candidiasis Send blank message to this e-mail address if you want to: TO UNSUBSCRIBE !!!!!!!!! : candidiasis-unsubscribeonelist To change status from normal to digest: candidiasis-digestonelist To change status from digest to normal: candidiasis-normalonelist To subscribe: candidiasis-subscribeonelist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 1999 Report Share Posted December 10, 1999 Hi Again Shawan: Did you know that the Mannacleanse product is a source of 5 different kinds of EFA's? Namely, linoleic & oleic phosphatides, caprylic acid (an anti-Candida nutrient), Omega 3 concentrate (from flax seed), Omega 6 concentrate (from borage seed), and rice bran concentrate. There are also 30 other very helpful ingredients. May God bless you today. Russ >Flax seed and flax seed oil is a great source of EFA , you can even find at HFS oil labelled EFA oil. It is wonderful tasting, I use it nearly everyday. > >a Perza <chestnutt@...> wrote: >There has been talk of the fact that essential fatty acids are good in >getting rid of the yeast. Can someone please suggest what foods these >EFAs can be found in. I do not eat any fish or sea-food. Mostly a >vegitarian for the most part. > >Would appreciate any assistance in this area. >Thanx all, >Best to you, >a > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >_ > >Subscription URL: /subscribe.cgi/candidiasis > > >Send blank message to this e-mail address if you want to: > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE !!!!!!!!! : > >candidiasis-unsubscribeonelist > >To change status from normal to digest: >candidiasis-digestonelist > >To change status from digest to normal: >candidiasis-normalonelist > >To subscribe: >candidiasis-subscribeonelist > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2000 Report Share Posted August 31, 2000 /Tom - thanks for the post. The subject is more complicated than I had expected, but your information will get me started. Thanks again. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2000 Report Share Posted August 31, 2000 The thing that concerns me here is the reference to Flaxseed oil as " immature " Omega 3 and therefore inferior to the product which is described. Actually the Omega 3 in flaxseed Oil is in the ration of 4 to 1 Omega 6. Of course, Omega 6 is the one found in Soy bean oil, corn oil etc. Dr. Budwig's empasis has been on the danger of hydrogenated fats. She says that those such as vegetable shortenings are causes of trouble and the worst fook one can eat is Margarine which is only one electron per molecule away from plastic.something is wrong. Dr. Budwig's success rate is 98% which is remarkable in light of the fact that a good percentage of her patients are terminal when she gets them. She would welcome anyone wishing to visit to observe her work. Bruce Barlean spent three months in Germany observing her work and the processing of oil for food before setting up his operation in 1989 which was the first in the US. I know that the Omega 3 in Flax oil will deteriorate after three weeks at room temperature. I am wondering about the Omega 3 in fish oil. Perhaps that is where the " immature " comes in. Also it the Omega 3 in any oil is fully absorbed and useful it could well need the protein with it as well. I would be concerned with that. Cliff essential fatty acids > >> I want my sister to take flax oil but she claims that she is also getting >> omega 3s in her supplements. >> >In the days of Adelle , the essential >fatty acids seemed simple (if you watched >your spelling). Lenoleic acid, lenolenic >acid, and arachidonic acid. > >And the simple way to get them was cod >liver oil. > >Now we've got DHA, EPA, omega 3, omega 6, >etc. And we're lost in a sea of detail. >So I seize on any information that seems >to coincide with what little I know >(because keeping cancer free is the goal, >not treating it). > >I've taken flax seed oil for years (and >yogurt) without any proprietary interest >in it being the best source of essential >fatty acids. So when I was told that >perilla oil might be a better source of >the omega 3s, I paused. > >Then the following give and take made me >consider that the old-fashioned fish oil >might still be the oil of choice. I >quote. >--------- >(I am looking for one supplement that will >give me the proper balance of omegas 3, 6, >etc.) > >First, looking for one supplement that >will give the proper balance of omegas 3, >6, etc. is not a sensible thing to do, >because the rest of your diet (almost >anyone's diet) is overloaded with omega-6 >fatty acids. > >What you need to look for is a supplement >that best supplies the omega-3s, which is >what most people desperately need. > >Flaxseed oil does supply some omega-3 but >it is " immature " omega-3, not the kind >most needed by the body and it must be >inefficiently converted to the most needed >kind -- eicosapaentanoic acid (EPA). > >Still some flaxseed oil is beneficial if >you make sure that it is not rancid by >keeping it in the refrigerator or by using >freshly-ground flax seed, which also gives >you other highly useful nutirents such as >lignans and fiber. > >The best source of omega-3 by far is >concentrated fish oil. You can get this in >several forms -- a mint liquid (Super >MaxEPA), and a softgel (Mega EPA). Both >of these also have docosahexanoic acid >(DHA). >--------- >So I continue to want to hear all sides >instead of pet theories. And welcome >statements of researchable facts rather >than testimonials. > > >Get HUGE info at http://www.cures for cancer.ws, and post your own links there. Unsubscribe by sending email to cures for cancer-unsubscribeegroups or by visiting http://www.bobhurt.com/subunsub.mv > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2001 Report Share Posted April 26, 2001 Why not continue with the flax, but consider including primose, canola, black current (and other oils)... You don't _have_ to eat fish for the EFA's... bruce goodchild Boston/Cambridge. At 07:31 AM 4/26/01 -0600, you wrote: >I have a quick question or two. I know the current " witch-hunt " is >going after Mercury in fish and just who is in danger etc., and I know the >jury is still out. But, knowing first hand about lead poisoning I am still >keeping my eyes open about this issue also. > >Does anyone know if the oil of the fish can be tainted with Mercury or >does it just harbor in the tissues. I was on the low to no fat notion for >some time and have been trying to add fat back into my diet. I have >recently starting supplementing with Flax-seed oil and had considered fish >oil too. I do eat fish quite often, but I am in the New Mexican desert and >have to resort to canned tuna and some frozen cod for the most part. > >Thank you for your assistance! Have a great day!! > >Mark Whitford >New Mexico, USA > > > > >Modify or cancel your subscription here: > >mygroups > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2001 Report Share Posted April 26, 2001 > Does anyone know if the oil of the fish can be tainted with Mercury or > does it just harbor in the tissues. I was on the low to no fat notion for > some time and have been trying to add fat back into my diet. I have > recently starting supplementing with Flax-seed oil and had considered fish > oil too. I do eat fish quite often, but I am in the New Mexican desert and > have to resort to canned tuna and some frozen cod for the most part. Actually, Mark, the fatty tissue of the fish is where most of the toxins are stored. Hence, " fatty " fishes like tuna, trout, and salmon are considered more at risk for unwanted chemicals that their leaner brethren, like flounder and whitefish. But I do know that consumption of even so-called lean fish that live in lakes that are high in pollutants should be monitored. Finkelstein Philadelphia, PA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2001 Report Share Posted April 26, 2001 From: " Mark W. Whitford " > > Does anyone know if the oil of the fish can be tainted with Mercury or > does it just harbor in the tissues. I was on the low to no fat notion for > some time and have been trying to add fat back into my diet. I have > recently starting supplementing with Flax-seed oil and had considered fish > oil too. I do not know if mercury is a problem, but PCB's are a very real problem. You have to be certain that what you buy has been processed with cold ultra centrifugation. Most suppliers do not know the answer to that question. The last time the mercury thing went around the opinion was that if the proper amount of selenium was present in the fish it was not a problem. Harvey Maron, M.D. Steamboat Springs, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2001 Report Share Posted April 26, 2001 Here are some abstracts from Medline and other databases. In general I would say it appears that the mercury content depends on where the fish comes from. The greater concern for me is the presence of DDE and other agents such as environmental estrogens. Tom 1) Authors Bugdahl V. von Jan E. Title [Quantitative determination of trace metals in frozen fish, fish oil and fish meal (author's transl)]. [German] Source Zeitschrift fur Lebensmittel-Untersuchung und -Forschung. 157(3):133-40, 1975 Mar 11. Abstract As a contribution to the discussion on the " Verordnung uber Umweltkontaminanten " (draft) we examined 73 double samples of the frequent types of edible fish and 2 samples each of fish oil and fish meal for their content of arsenic (As), cadmium (Cd), lead (Pb) and mercury (Hg). Arsenic was determined photometrically, cadmium and lead by anodic stripping voltammetry and mercury by flameless atomic absorption spectrometry. We found the following average contents (ppm): 0.84 As, 0.003 Cd, 0.08 Pb, 0.06 Hg. The limits (ppm) set up in the draft for a German " Hochstmengenverordnung " (regulation specifying the maximum concentrations allowed) were by far not reached in the case of Cd, Pb, and Hg with all samples while they were fulfilled in the case of As by only 18% of the samples. It seems that the limit for As of 0.5 ppm has been set up too low. In the average, the following proportion applies for the trace contents found: Cd:Hg:Pb:As = 1:20:27:280. Correlations between the contents of trace metals on the one hand and fishing grounds or trawler or sample piece on the other could not be found. 2) Authors van de Ven WS. Title Mercury and selenium in cod-liver oil. Source Clinical Toxicology. 12(5):579-81, 1978. Abstract Cod-liver oil preparations were analyzed for mercury and selenium. The conclusion can be drawn that the intake of mercury and selenium in the normal use of these preparations will be very low. 3) Authors Koller H. Luley C. Klein B. Baum H. Biesalski HK. Institution Institut fur Physiologische Chemie II, Johannes-Gutenberg-Universitat, Mainz. Title [Contaminating substances in 22 over-the-counter fish oil and cod liver oil preparations: cholesterol, heavy metals and vitamin A]. [German] Source Zeitschrift fur Ernahrungswissenschaft. 28(1):76-83, 1989 Mar. Abstract Fish oil capsules are increasingly used by self-medicating patients. We studied 22 commercial fish oil and menhaden oil preparations in respect to accompanying substances that could be harmful. The substances measured were: cholesterol as determined by gas liquid chromatography, heavy metals measured by atomic absorption, and vitamin A as determined by high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC). The contents of cholesterol and heavy metals were in ranges which can be regarded as negligible; the content of vitamin A in menhaden oils, however, was found in amounts which warrant that pregnant women do not exceed the dosage as recommended by the manufacturers. 4) Authors Ebel Jr JG. Eckerlin RH. Maylin GA. Gutenmann WH. Lisk DJ. Institution New York State College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, Ithaca, NY 14853; United States. Title Polychlorinated biphenyls and p,p'-DDE in encapsulated fish oil supplements. Source Nutrition Reports International. Vol 36(2) (pp 413-417), 1987. Abstract Encapsulated marine fish oils are currently sold as dietary supplement sources of omega-3 fatty acids for potentially reducing the incidence of cardiovascular disease. Small amounts of the DDT metabolite, p,p'-DDE and/or polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) were found in four major brands of such encapsulated fish oils. Residues of mercury were not detectable in any of the products. Incledon, MS, RD, LD/N, NSCA-CPT, CSCS Human Performance Specialists, Inc. 619 NW 90th Terrace Plantation, FL 33324 954-577-0689 office 954-533-0614 fax 954-557-5072 cell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2002 Report Share Posted September 30, 2002 Thanks for this RIch, a very fine summary - and all written a year ago! Your description seems to point to the advisability or sensibleness of a trial of GLA AND EPA AND DHA for those of us who test low in blood lipid tests. (Assuming that blood tests are indicative of body status of these substances, and that the EFAs can be absorbed in the intestinal tract). This is what I will try next. Can you tell me what the " research list " is that you refer to? Cheers n At 13:32 01/10/02, you wrote: >Hi, all. > >In view of the discussion lately about esssential fatty acids, I want >to repost a message I sent to the research list a little over a year >ago. The information in it was current up to that time, but as you >know, there has been more work reported on EFAs in CFS since then. I >hope this will shed some light on the question about why the studies >don't all agree. > >Rich > > >Message 6791 of 12160 > >From: vankonynenburg1@l... >Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 11:36 am >Subject: Omega-3 and -6 Oils--, Judith, Olv, and the group > > > > >, Judith, Olv, and the group, > >Concerning oils containing omega-3 or omega-6 fatty acids and whether >they are beneficial or not, I want to make a few comments. > >First, both omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids are essential nutrients >for the human body, i.e. essential fatty acids (EFAs). We all need >some of each, whether we are healthy or ill. > >Second, most of us who are on usual American diets get plenty of >omega-6 (linoleic acid), but often not enough omega-3 (alpha >linolenic >acid). > >Supplementing omega-6 is often done with evening primrose oil, which >is high in gamma linolenic acid (GLA), which can also be produced in >the body by metabolism of linoleic acid. > >Supplementing omega-3 is often done with either flax oil (which is >high in alpha linolenic acid) or fish oil (which is high in EPA or >eicosapentaenoic acid and DHA or docosahexaenoic acid, which are >further along on the metabolic pathway in the body than alpha >linolenic acid). > >Evidence has been presented by Horrobin that in several conditions >the >body has low activity of the enzyme delta 6 desaturase, which is >needed for this metabolic processing of both the basic omega-3 (alpha >linolenic) and omega-6 (linoleic) essential fatty acids. >Supplementing with fish oil and evening primrose oil provides the >metabolized forms of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, respectively, >so >that this enzyme deficiency can be circumvented. > >The EFAs have two main roles in the body: to become part of >membranes, >making them more fluid, including red blood cell membranes and tissue >in the brain, and to serve as substrates for making eicosanoids, >including the prostaglandins. Omega-6 fatty acids go into making >Series 1 and 2 prostaglandins, and omega-3 fatty acids (such as EPA) >go into making series 3 prostaglandins. The series 2 prostaglandins >are associated with inflammation, and they are the ones blocked by >aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS) as well >as >the newer COX-2 inhibitors such as Vioxx and Celebrex. > >The following is a summary of the published work on essential fatty >acids in CFS and FM: > >Behan, Behan and Horrobin (1990) measured the concentrations of fatty >acids in the phospholipid fraction of the red blood cell membranes of >63 postviral fatigue syndrome patients and 32 normal controls. They >found that the patients had significantly reduced levels of total >EFAs, especially the omega-6 series, and particularly arachidonic >acid >and adrenic acid, as compared to the controls. > > et al. (1992) reported that in their experience deficiencies >of >EFAs in CFS patients are quite common. > >Behan et al. (1990) went on to carry out a 3-month, randomized, >double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of EFA therapy on patients >diagnosed with postviral fatigue syndrome. There were 39 patients in >the treatment group and 24 in the placebo group. The treatment >consisted of a mixture of evening primrose oil and fish oil. The >daily dosage included 288 mg gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), 136 mg >eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), 88 mg docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), and >2,040 mg linoleic acid. The placebo included 400 mg of linoleic acid >in liquid paraffin. They found that at one month, 74% of the >treatment group and 23% of the placebo group assessed themselves a >improved over the baseline, with the degree of improvement (in terms >of fatigue, myalgia, dizziness, poor concentration and depression) >being much greater in the treatment group. At three months the >corresponding figures were 85% and 17% (p<0.0001), since the placebo >group had reverted toward their baseline state, while those in the >treatment group showed continued improvement. The EFA levels in the >red blood cell membranes of the placebo group rose, but only the >increases in adrenic acid and oleic acid were significant. The EFA >levels in the treatment group showed substantially greater increases >and were corrected to normal by the end of the trial. > >Simpson (1992, 1997) suggested that the beneficial effects of EFAs in >postviral fatigue syndrome are due to improvement in blood rheology. >He presented evidence of misshapen red blood cells in patients with >myalgic encephalomyelitis, and recalled earlier work (Simpson, Olds >and Hunter, 1984) in which it had been shown that the filterability >of >the blood of smokers had been improved by taking evening primrose oil. > >Gray and ovic (1994) briefly described treatment of a >case-series in a private general practice setting involving 29 CFS >patients and using a combination of dietary EFAs, " titrated >mental/physical activity/exercise, and psycho-therapeutic >interventions. " Twenty-seven out of the 29 showed significant >improvement in 3 months or less, when only 2 of the 29 had shown any >improvement over the previous year. Twenty who had been unfit for >full time duties for more than 3 years prior to treatment became fit >for full time duties in an average of 111 days after beginning >treatment. When they were followed up an average of 16 months later, >27 out of the 28 were still improved compared to pretreatment, and 20 >of them had experienced more improvement beyond that from the initial >3 months of treatment. > >Warren, McKendrick and Peet (1999) attempted to replicate the Behan >et >al. (1990) trial. They studied 50 patients who met the Oxford >criteria (Sharpe et al., 1991) and 25 age- and sex-matched controls >for the first 25 of the patients. The treatment was the same as in >the Behan, et al. trial, but the placebo was sunflower oil, >containing >linoleic acid, saturated fatty acids, monounsaturated fatty acids, >and >a small amount of alpha linolenic acid. It is not clear from the >wording in their paper what the daily dose of these was in the >placebo >group. Before the treatment, they did not see any significant >differences in the red blood cell fatty acids composition between the >patients and the controls. They also did not see significant >differences in post-treatment symptoms between the treatment and >control groups, nor did they see significant differences in the fatty >acids composition of the red blood cells post-treatment. This lack of >significant improvement may not be inconsistent with the Behan et al. >study, since Warren et al. appear to have sampled a different subset >of patients, based on the different criteria and the different >findings in initial red blood cell EFA levels. Warren et al. noted >that the Oxford criteria (Sharpe et al., 1991) which they used do not >require the patient to have suffered from a demonstrable viral >illness, which was a criterion in the Behan et al. (1990) study. >Warren et al. also pointed out that it is not clear whether the >placebo they used had a therapeutic benefit of its own, since the >patients on the sunflower oil placebo showed a trend toward greater >improvement than those in the treatment group. > >Ozgocmen, Catal, Ardicoglu and Kamanli (2000) conducted an open- >label, >non-controlled, single-blind study of omega-3 EFA treatment in FM. >They studied twelve female patients who met the ACR criteria (Wolfe >et >al., 1990). The treatment consisted of four weeks of 4.5 g of fish >oil per day. The daily dose included 1600 mg of total omega-3 EFAs, >of which 810 mg was EPA, and 540 mg was DHA. Nine mg of vitamin E >were >also included. They found significant decreases in total cholesterol, >tender point counts, pain, fatigue and depression, and a significant >increase in chest expansion. > >Taken together, these studies suggest to me that EFA supplementation >can be beneficial in both CFS and FM , but that it is important to >ascertain whether or not a deficiency is present before deciding upon >this treatment, since it did not appear to be helpful when >deficiencies were known to be absent. > > >Rich > > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2002 Report Share Posted October 1, 2002 n, The list I referred to is cfs_research. It's another group. Rich > >Hi, all. > > > >In view of the discussion lately about esssential fatty acids, I want > >to repost a message I sent to the research list a little over a year > >ago. The information in it was current up to that time, but as you > >know, there has been more work reported on EFAs in CFS since then. I > >hope this will shed some light on the question about why the studies > >don't all agree. > > > >Rich > > > > > >Message 6791 of 12160 > > > >From: vankonynenburg1@l... > >Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 11:36 am > >Subject: Omega-3 and -6 Oils--, Judith, Olv, and the group > > > > > > > > > >, Judith, Olv, and the group, > > > >Concerning oils containing omega-3 or omega-6 fatty acids and whether > >they are beneficial or not, I want to make a few comments. > > > >First, both omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids are essential nutrients > >for the human body, i.e. essential fatty acids (EFAs). We all need > >some of each, whether we are healthy or ill. > > > >Second, most of us who are on usual American diets get plenty of > >omega-6 (linoleic acid), but often not enough omega-3 (alpha > >linolenic > >acid). > > > >Supplementing omega-6 is often done with evening primrose oil, which > >is high in gamma linolenic acid (GLA), which can also be produced in > >the body by metabolism of linoleic acid. > > > >Supplementing omega-3 is often done with either flax oil (which is > >high in alpha linolenic acid) or fish oil (which is high in EPA or > >eicosapentaenoic acid and DHA or docosahexaenoic acid, which are > >further along on the metabolic pathway in the body than alpha > >linolenic acid). > > > >Evidence has been presented by Horrobin that in several conditions > >the > >body has low activity of the enzyme delta 6 desaturase, which is > >needed for this metabolic processing of both the basic omega-3 (alpha > >linolenic) and omega-6 (linoleic) essential fatty acids. > >Supplementing with fish oil and evening primrose oil provides the > >metabolized forms of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, respectively, > >so > >that this enzyme deficiency can be circumvented. > > > >The EFAs have two main roles in the body: to become part of > >membranes, > >making them more fluid, including red blood cell membranes and tissue > >in the brain, and to serve as substrates for making eicosanoids, > >including the prostaglandins. Omega-6 fatty acids go into making > >Series 1 and 2 prostaglandins, and omega-3 fatty acids (such as EPA) > >go into making series 3 prostaglandins. The series 2 prostaglandins > >are associated with inflammation, and they are the ones blocked by > >aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS) as well > >as > >the newer COX-2 inhibitors such as Vioxx and Celebrex. > > > >The following is a summary of the published work on essential fatty > >acids in CFS and FM: > > > >Behan, Behan and Horrobin (1990) measured the concentrations of fatty > >acids in the phospholipid fraction of the red blood cell membranes of > >63 postviral fatigue syndrome patients and 32 normal controls. They > >found that the patients had significantly reduced levels of total > >EFAs, especially the omega-6 series, and particularly arachidonic > >acid > >and adrenic acid, as compared to the controls. > > > > et al. (1992) reported that in their experience deficiencies > >of > >EFAs in CFS patients are quite common. > > > >Behan et al. (1990) went on to carry out a 3-month, randomized, > >double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of EFA therapy on patients > >diagnosed with postviral fatigue syndrome. There were 39 patients in > >the treatment group and 24 in the placebo group. The treatment > >consisted of a mixture of evening primrose oil and fish oil. The > >daily dosage included 288 mg gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), 136 mg > >eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), 88 mg docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), and > >2,040 mg linoleic acid. The placebo included 400 mg of linoleic acid > >in liquid paraffin. They found that at one month, 74% of the > >treatment group and 23% of the placebo group assessed themselves a > >improved over the baseline, with the degree of improvement (in terms > >of fatigue, myalgia, dizziness, poor concentration and depression) > >being much greater in the treatment group. At three months the > >corresponding figures were 85% and 17% (p<0.0001), since the placebo > >group had reverted toward their baseline state, while those in the > >treatment group showed continued improvement. The EFA levels in the > >red blood cell membranes of the placebo group rose, but only the > >increases in adrenic acid and oleic acid were significant. The EFA > >levels in the treatment group showed substantially greater increases > >and were corrected to normal by the end of the trial. > > > >Simpson (1992, 1997) suggested that the beneficial effects of EFAs in > >postviral fatigue syndrome are due to improvement in blood rheology. > >He presented evidence of misshapen red blood cells in patients with > >myalgic encephalomyelitis, and recalled earlier work (Simpson, Olds > >and Hunter, 1984) in which it had been shown that the filterability > >of > >the blood of smokers had been improved by taking evening primrose oil. > > > >Gray and ovic (1994) briefly described treatment of a > >case-series in a private general practice setting involving 29 CFS > >patients and using a combination of dietary EFAs, " titrated > >mental/physical activity/exercise, and psycho-therapeutic > >interventions. " Twenty-seven out of the 29 showed significant > >improvement in 3 months or less, when only 2 of the 29 had shown any > >improvement over the previous year. Twenty who had been unfit for > >full time duties for more than 3 years prior to treatment became fit > >for full time duties in an average of 111 days after beginning > >treatment. When they were followed up an average of 16 months later, > >27 out of the 28 were still improved compared to pretreatment, and 20 > >of them had experienced more improvement beyond that from the initial > >3 months of treatment. > > > >Warren, McKendrick and Peet (1999) attempted to replicate the Behan > >et > >al. (1990) trial. They studied 50 patients who met the Oxford > >criteria (Sharpe et al., 1991) and 25 age- and sex-matched controls > >for the first 25 of the patients. The treatment was the same as in > >the Behan, et al. trial, but the placebo was sunflower oil, > >containing > >linoleic acid, saturated fatty acids, monounsaturated fatty acids, > >and > >a small amount of alpha linolenic acid. It is not clear from the > >wording in their paper what the daily dose of these was in the > >placebo > >group. Before the treatment, they did not see any significant > >differences in the red blood cell fatty acids composition between the > >patients and the controls. They also did not see significant > >differences in post-treatment symptoms between the treatment and > >control groups, nor did they see significant differences in the fatty > >acids composition of the red blood cells post-treatment. This lack of > >significant improvement may not be inconsistent with the Behan et al. > >study, since Warren et al. appear to have sampled a different subset > >of patients, based on the different criteria and the different > >findings in initial red blood cell EFA levels. Warren et al. noted > >that the Oxford criteria (Sharpe et al., 1991) which they used do not > >require the patient to have suffered from a demonstrable viral > >illness, which was a criterion in the Behan et al. (1990) study. > >Warren et al. also pointed out that it is not clear whether the > >placebo they used had a therapeutic benefit of its own, since the > >patients on the sunflower oil placebo showed a trend toward greater > >improvement than those in the treatment group. > > > >Ozgocmen, Catal, Ardicoglu and Kamanli (2000) conducted an open- > >label, > >non-controlled, single-blind study of omega-3 EFA treatment in FM. > >They studied twelve female patients who met the ACR criteria (Wolfe > >et > >al., 1990). The treatment consisted of four weeks of 4.5 g of fish > >oil per day. The daily dose included 1600 mg of total omega-3 EFAs, > >of which 810 mg was EPA, and 540 mg was DHA. Nine mg of vitamin E > >were > >also included. They found significant decreases in total cholesterol, > >tender point counts, pain, fatigue and depression, and a significant > >increase in chest expansion. > > > >Taken together, these studies suggest to me that EFA supplementation > >can be beneficial in both CFS and FM , but that it is important to > >ascertain whether or not a deficiency is present before deciding upon > >this treatment, since it did not appear to be helpful when > >deficiencies were known to be absent. > > > > > >Rich > > > > > > > > > > > >This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > >other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > >discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2002 Report Share Posted October 2, 2002 Hello Rich, I can't tolerate fish oils or evening primrose oil, though I can tolerate hemp oil (available here in the UK). Are you able to tell me if this oil has the right balance of Omega 3, Omega 6 and EPA's? Many thanks, PV > Hi, all. > > In view of the discussion lately about esssential fatty acids, I want > to repost a message I sent to the research list a little over a year > ago. The information in it was current up to that time, but as you > know, there has been more work reported on EFAs in CFS since then. I > hope this will shed some light on the question about why the studies > don't all agree. > > Rich > > > Message 6791 of 12160 > > From: vankonynenburg1@l... > Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 11:36 am > Subject: Omega-3 and -6 Oils--, Judith, Olv, and the group > > > > > , Judith, Olv, and the group, > > Concerning oils containing omega-3 or omega-6 fatty acids and whether > they are beneficial or not, I want to make a few comments. > > First, both omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids are essential nutrients > for the human body, i.e. essential fatty acids (EFAs). We all need > some of each, whether we are healthy or ill. > > Second, most of us who are on usual American diets get plenty of > omega-6 (linoleic acid), but often not enough omega-3 (alpha > linolenic > acid). > > Supplementing omega-6 is often done with evening primrose oil, which > is high in gamma linolenic acid (GLA), which can also be produced in > the body by metabolism of linoleic acid. > > Supplementing omega-3 is often done with either flax oil (which is > high in alpha linolenic acid) or fish oil (which is high in EPA or > eicosapentaenoic acid and DHA or docosahexaenoic acid, which are > further along on the metabolic pathway in the body than alpha > linolenic acid). > > Evidence has been presented by Horrobin that in several conditions > the > body has low activity of the enzyme delta 6 desaturase, which is > needed for this metabolic processing of both the basic omega-3 (alpha > linolenic) and omega-6 (linoleic) essential fatty acids. > Supplementing with fish oil and evening primrose oil provides the > metabolized forms of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, respectively, > so > that this enzyme deficiency can be circumvented. > > The EFAs have two main roles in the body: to become part of > membranes, > making them more fluid, including red blood cell membranes and tissue > in the brain, and to serve as substrates for making eicosanoids, > including the prostaglandins. Omega-6 fatty acids go into making > Series 1 and 2 prostaglandins, and omega-3 fatty acids (such as EPA) > go into making series 3 prostaglandins. The series 2 prostaglandins > are associated with inflammation, and they are the ones blocked by > aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS) as well > as > the newer COX-2 inhibitors such as Vioxx and Celebrex. > > The following is a summary of the published work on essential fatty > acids in CFS and FM: > > Behan, Behan and Horrobin (1990) measured the concentrations of fatty > acids in the phospholipid fraction of the red blood cell membranes of > 63 postviral fatigue syndrome patients and 32 normal controls. They > found that the patients had significantly reduced levels of total > EFAs, especially the omega-6 series, and particularly arachidonic > acid > and adrenic acid, as compared to the controls. > > et al. (1992) reported that in their experience deficiencies > of > EFAs in CFS patients are quite common. > > Behan et al. (1990) went on to carry out a 3-month, randomized, > double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of EFA therapy on patients > diagnosed with postviral fatigue syndrome. There were 39 patients in > the treatment group and 24 in the placebo group. The treatment > consisted of a mixture of evening primrose oil and fish oil. The > daily dosage included 288 mg gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), 136 mg > eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), 88 mg docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), and > 2,040 mg linoleic acid. The placebo included 400 mg of linoleic acid > in liquid paraffin. They found that at one month, 74% of the > treatment group and 23% of the placebo group assessed themselves a > improved over the baseline, with the degree of improvement (in terms > of fatigue, myalgia, dizziness, poor concentration and depression) > being much greater in the treatment group. At three months the > corresponding figures were 85% and 17% (p<0.0001), since the placebo > group had reverted toward their baseline state, while those in the > treatment group showed continued improvement. The EFA levels in the > red blood cell membranes of the placebo group rose, but only the > increases in adrenic acid and oleic acid were significant. The EFA > levels in the treatment group showed substantially greater increases > and were corrected to normal by the end of the trial. > > Simpson (1992, 1997) suggested that the beneficial effects of EFAs in > postviral fatigue syndrome are due to improvement in blood rheology. > He presented evidence of misshapen red blood cells in patients with > myalgic encephalomyelitis, and recalled earlier work (Simpson, Olds > and Hunter, 1984) in which it had been shown that the filterability > of > the blood of smokers had been improved by taking evening primrose oil. > > Gray and ovic (1994) briefly described treatment of a > case-series in a private general practice setting involving 29 CFS > patients and using a combination of dietary EFAs, " titrated > mental/physical activity/exercise, and psycho-therapeutic > interventions. " Twenty-seven out of the 29 showed significant > improvement in 3 months or less, when only 2 of the 29 had shown any > improvement over the previous year. Twenty who had been unfit for > full time duties for more than 3 years prior to treatment became fit > for full time duties in an average of 111 days after beginning > treatment. When they were followed up an average of 16 months later, > 27 out of the 28 were still improved compared to pretreatment, and 20 > of them had experienced more improvement beyond that from the initial > 3 months of treatment. > > Warren, McKendrick and Peet (1999) attempted to replicate the Behan > et > al. (1990) trial. They studied 50 patients who met the Oxford > criteria (Sharpe et al., 1991) and 25 age- and sex-matched controls > for the first 25 of the patients. The treatment was the same as in > the Behan, et al. trial, but the placebo was sunflower oil, > containing > linoleic acid, saturated fatty acids, monounsaturated fatty acids, > and > a small amount of alpha linolenic acid. It is not clear from the > wording in their paper what the daily dose of these was in the > placebo > group. Before the treatment, they did not see any significant > differences in the red blood cell fatty acids composition between the > patients and the controls. They also did not see significant > differences in post-treatment symptoms between the treatment and > control groups, nor did they see significant differences in the fatty > acids composition of the red blood cells post-treatment. This lack of > significant improvement may not be inconsistent with the Behan et al. > study, since Warren et al. appear to have sampled a different subset > of patients, based on the different criteria and the different > findings in initial red blood cell EFA levels. Warren et al. noted > that the Oxford criteria (Sharpe et al., 1991) which they used do not > require the patient to have suffered from a demonstrable viral > illness, which was a criterion in the Behan et al. (1990) study. > Warren et al. also pointed out that it is not clear whether the > placebo they used had a therapeutic benefit of its own, since the > patients on the sunflower oil placebo showed a trend toward greater > improvement than those in the treatment group. > > Ozgocmen, Catal, Ardicoglu and Kamanli (2000) conducted an open- > label, > non-controlled, single-blind study of omega-3 EFA treatment in FM. > They studied twelve female patients who met the ACR criteria (Wolfe > et > al., 1990). The treatment consisted of four weeks of 4.5 g of fish > oil per day. The daily dose included 1600 mg of total omega-3 EFAs, > of which 810 mg was EPA, and 540 mg was DHA. Nine mg of vitamin E > were > also included. They found significant decreases in total cholesterol, > tender point counts, pain, fatigue and depression, and a significant > increase in chest expansion. > > Taken together, these studies suggest to me that EFA supplementation > can be beneficial in both CFS and FM , but that it is important to > ascertain whether or not a deficiency is present before deciding upon > this treatment, since it did not appear to be helpful when > deficiencies were known to be absent. > > > Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2002 Report Share Posted October 2, 2002 Dear PV, According to the book " Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill, " by Udo Erasmus, hemp oil has a nearly ideal ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acids for long-term use: one to three, in that order. Within the omega-6, there is 2% gamma linolenic acid. As far as I can tell from the book, there is no EPA. However, if your body has active delta-6 desaturase and elongase enzymes, it can produce EPA from the omega-3 fatty acid in hemp oil. Otherwise, you have to use fish oil or snake oil (seriously) to get EPA. The most concentrated source of EPA is Chinese water snake oil. It was analyzed by Dr. Kunin of San Francisco, who is currently head of the Orthomolecular Health- Medicine Society. Rich > > Hi, all. > > > > In view of the discussion lately about esssential fatty acids, I > want > > to repost a message I sent to the research list a little over a > year > > ago. The information in it was current up to that time, but as you > > know, there has been more work reported on EFAs in CFS since then. > I > > hope this will shed some light on the question about why the > studies > > don't all agree. > > > > Rich > > > > > > Message 6791 of 12160 > > > > From: vankonynenburg1@l... > > Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 11:36 am > > Subject: Omega-3 and -6 Oils--, Judith, Olv, and the group > > > > > > > > > > , Judith, Olv, and the group, > > > > Concerning oils containing omega-3 or omega-6 fatty acids and > whether > > they are beneficial or not, I want to make a few comments. > > > > First, both omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids are essential nutrients > > for the human body, i.e. essential fatty acids (EFAs). We all need > > some of each, whether we are healthy or ill. > > > > Second, most of us who are on usual American diets get plenty of > > omega-6 (linoleic acid), but often not enough omega-3 (alpha > > linolenic > > acid). > > > > Supplementing omega-6 is often done with evening primrose oil, > which > > is high in gamma linolenic acid (GLA), which can also be produced > in > > the body by metabolism of linoleic acid. > > > > Supplementing omega-3 is often done with either flax oil (which is > > high in alpha linolenic acid) or fish oil (which is high in EPA or > > eicosapentaenoic acid and DHA or docosahexaenoic acid, which are > > further along on the metabolic pathway in the body than alpha > > linolenic acid). > > > > Evidence has been presented by Horrobin that in several conditions > > the > > body has low activity of the enzyme delta 6 desaturase, which is > > needed for this metabolic processing of both the basic omega-3 > (alpha > > linolenic) and omega-6 (linoleic) essential fatty acids. > > Supplementing with fish oil and evening primrose oil provides the > > metabolized forms of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, respectively, > > so > > that this enzyme deficiency can be circumvented. > > > > The EFAs have two main roles in the body: to become part of > > membranes, > > making them more fluid, including red blood cell membranes and > tissue > > in the brain, and to serve as substrates for making eicosanoids, > > including the prostaglandins. Omega-6 fatty acids go into making > > Series 1 and 2 prostaglandins, and omega-3 fatty acids (such as > EPA) > > go into making series 3 prostaglandins. The series 2 prostaglandins > > are associated with inflammation, and they are the ones blocked by > > aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS) as well > > as > > the newer COX-2 inhibitors such as Vioxx and Celebrex. > > > > The following is a summary of the published work on essential fatty > > acids in CFS and FM: > > > > Behan, Behan and Horrobin (1990) measured the concentrations of > fatty > > acids in the phospholipid fraction of the red blood cell membranes > of > > 63 postviral fatigue syndrome patients and 32 normal controls. They > > found that the patients had significantly reduced levels of total > > EFAs, especially the omega-6 series, and particularly arachidonic > > acid > > and adrenic acid, as compared to the controls. > > > > et al. (1992) reported that in their experience deficiencies > > of > > EFAs in CFS patients are quite common. > > > > Behan et al. (1990) went on to carry out a 3-month, randomized, > > double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of EFA therapy on patients > > diagnosed with postviral fatigue syndrome. There were 39 patients > in > > the treatment group and 24 in the placebo group. The treatment > > consisted of a mixture of evening primrose oil and fish oil. The > > daily dosage included 288 mg gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), 136 mg > > eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), 88 mg docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), and > > 2,040 mg linoleic acid. The placebo included 400 mg of linoleic > acid > > in liquid paraffin. They found that at one month, 74% of the > > treatment group and 23% of the placebo group assessed themselves a > > improved over the baseline, with the degree of improvement (in > terms > > of fatigue, myalgia, dizziness, poor concentration and depression) > > being much greater in the treatment group. At three months the > > corresponding figures were 85% and 17% (p<0.0001), since the > placebo > > group had reverted toward their baseline state, while those in the > > treatment group showed continued improvement. The EFA levels in the > > red blood cell membranes of the placebo group rose, but only the > > increases in adrenic acid and oleic acid were significant. The EFA > > levels in the treatment group showed substantially greater > increases > > and were corrected to normal by the end of the trial. > > > > Simpson (1992, 1997) suggested that the beneficial effects of EFAs > in > > postviral fatigue syndrome are due to improvement in blood > rheology. > > He presented evidence of misshapen red blood cells in patients with > > myalgic encephalomyelitis, and recalled earlier work (Simpson, Olds > > and Hunter, 1984) in which it had been shown that the filterability > > of > > the blood of smokers had been improved by taking evening primrose > oil. > > > > Gray and ovic (1994) briefly described treatment of a > > case-series in a private general practice setting involving 29 CFS > > patients and using a combination of dietary EFAs, " titrated > > mental/physical activity/exercise, and psycho-therapeutic > > interventions. " Twenty-seven out of the 29 showed significant > > improvement in 3 months or less, when only 2 of the 29 had shown > any > > improvement over the previous year. Twenty who had been unfit for > > full time duties for more than 3 years prior to treatment became > fit > > for full time duties in an average of 111 days after beginning > > treatment. When they were followed up an average of 16 months > later, > > 27 out of the 28 were still improved compared to pretreatment, and > 20 > > of them had experienced more improvement beyond that from the > initial > > 3 months of treatment. > > > > Warren, McKendrick and Peet (1999) attempted to replicate the Behan > > et > > al. (1990) trial. They studied 50 patients who met the Oxford > > criteria (Sharpe et al., 1991) and 25 age- and sex-matched controls > > for the first 25 of the patients. The treatment was the same as in > > the Behan, et al. trial, but the placebo was sunflower oil, > > containing > > linoleic acid, saturated fatty acids, monounsaturated fatty acids, > > and > > a small amount of alpha linolenic acid. It is not clear from the > > wording in their paper what the daily dose of these was in the > > placebo > > group. Before the treatment, they did not see any significant > > differences in the red blood cell fatty acids composition between > the > > patients and the controls. They also did not see significant > > differences in post-treatment symptoms between the treatment and > > control groups, nor did they see significant differences in the > fatty > > acids composition of the red blood cells post-treatment. This lack > of > > significant improvement may not be inconsistent with the Behan et > al. > > study, since Warren et al. appear to have sampled a different > subset > > of patients, based on the different criteria and the different > > findings in initial red blood cell EFA levels. Warren et al. noted > > that the Oxford criteria (Sharpe et al., 1991) which they used do > not > > require the patient to have suffered from a demonstrable viral > > illness, which was a criterion in the Behan et al. (1990) study. > > Warren et al. also pointed out that it is not clear whether the > > placebo they used had a therapeutic benefit of its own, since the > > patients on the sunflower oil placebo showed a trend toward greater > > improvement than those in the treatment group. > > > > Ozgocmen, Catal, Ardicoglu and Kamanli (2000) conducted an open- > > label, > > non-controlled, single-blind study of omega-3 EFA treatment in FM. > > They studied twelve female patients who met the ACR criteria (Wolfe > > et > > al., 1990). The treatment consisted of four weeks of 4.5 g of fish > > oil per day. The daily dose included 1600 mg of total omega-3 EFAs, > > of which 810 mg was EPA, and 540 mg was DHA. Nine mg of vitamin E > > were > > also included. They found significant decreases in total > cholesterol, > > tender point counts, pain, fatigue and depression, and a > significant > > increase in chest expansion. > > > > Taken together, these studies suggest to me that EFA > supplementation > > can be beneficial in both CFS and FM , but that it is important to > > ascertain whether or not a deficiency is present before deciding > upon > > this treatment, since it did not appear to be helpful when > > deficiencies were known to be absent. > > > > > > Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Rich, Just a thank you for the information you've provided. Things are a bit clearer now. PV > > > Hi, all. > > > > > > In view of the discussion lately about esssential fatty acids, I > > want > > > to repost a message I sent to the research list a little over a > > year > > > ago. The information in it was current up to that time, but as > you > > > know, there has been more work reported on EFAs in CFS since > then. > > I > > > hope this will shed some light on the question about why the > > studies > > > don't all agree. > > > > > > Rich > > > > > > > > > Message 6791 of 12160 > > > > > > From: vankonynenburg1@l... > > > Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 11:36 am > > > Subject: Omega-3 and -6 Oils--, Judith, Olv, and the group > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Judith, Olv, and the group, > > > > > > Concerning oils containing omega-3 or omega-6 fatty acids and > > whether > > > they are beneficial or not, I want to make a few comments. > > > > > > First, both omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids are essential > nutrients > > > for the human body, i.e. essential fatty acids (EFAs). We all > need > > > some of each, whether we are healthy or ill. > > > > > > Second, most of us who are on usual American diets get plenty of > > > omega-6 (linoleic acid), but often not enough omega-3 (alpha > > > linolenic > > > acid). > > > > > > Supplementing omega-6 is often done with evening primrose oil, > > which > > > is high in gamma linolenic acid (GLA), which can also be produced > > in > > > the body by metabolism of linoleic acid. > > > > > > Supplementing omega-3 is often done with either flax oil (which > is > > > high in alpha linolenic acid) or fish oil (which is high in EPA > or > > > eicosapentaenoic acid and DHA or docosahexaenoic acid, which are > > > further along on the metabolic pathway in the body than alpha > > > linolenic acid). > > > > > > Evidence has been presented by Horrobin that in several > conditions > > > the > > > body has low activity of the enzyme delta 6 desaturase, which is > > > needed for this metabolic processing of both the basic omega-3 > > (alpha > > > linolenic) and omega-6 (linoleic) essential fatty acids. > > > Supplementing with fish oil and evening primrose oil provides the > > > metabolized forms of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, > respectively, > > > so > > > that this enzyme deficiency can be circumvented. > > > > > > The EFAs have two main roles in the body: to become part of > > > membranes, > > > making them more fluid, including red blood cell membranes and > > tissue > > > in the brain, and to serve as substrates for making eicosanoids, > > > including the prostaglandins. Omega-6 fatty acids go into making > > > Series 1 and 2 prostaglandins, and omega-3 fatty acids (such as > > EPA) > > > go into making series 3 prostaglandins. The series 2 > prostaglandins > > > are associated with inflammation, and they are the ones blocked > by > > > aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS) as > well > > > as > > > the newer COX-2 inhibitors such as Vioxx and Celebrex. > > > > > > The following is a summary of the published work on essential > fatty > > > acids in CFS and FM: > > > > > > Behan, Behan and Horrobin (1990) measured the concentrations of > > fatty > > > acids in the phospholipid fraction of the red blood cell > membranes > > of > > > 63 postviral fatigue syndrome patients and 32 normal controls. > They > > > found that the patients had significantly reduced levels of total > > > EFAs, especially the omega-6 series, and particularly arachidonic > > > acid > > > and adrenic acid, as compared to the controls. > > > > > > et al. (1992) reported that in their experience > deficiencies > > > of > > > EFAs in CFS patients are quite common. > > > > > > Behan et al. (1990) went on to carry out a 3-month, randomized, > > > double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of EFA therapy on patients > > > diagnosed with postviral fatigue syndrome. There were 39 patients > > in > > > the treatment group and 24 in the placebo group. The treatment > > > consisted of a mixture of evening primrose oil and fish oil. The > > > daily dosage included 288 mg gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), 136 mg > > > eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), 88 mg docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), > and > > > 2,040 mg linoleic acid. The placebo included 400 mg of linoleic > > acid > > > in liquid paraffin. They found that at one month, 74% of the > > > treatment group and 23% of the placebo group assessed themselves > a > > > improved over the baseline, with the degree of improvement (in > > terms > > > of fatigue, myalgia, dizziness, poor concentration and > depression) > > > being much greater in the treatment group. At three months the > > > corresponding figures were 85% and 17% (p<0.0001), since the > > placebo > > > group had reverted toward their baseline state, while those in > the > > > treatment group showed continued improvement. The EFA levels in > the > > > red blood cell membranes of the placebo group rose, but only the > > > increases in adrenic acid and oleic acid were significant. The > EFA > > > levels in the treatment group showed substantially greater > > increases > > > and were corrected to normal by the end of the trial. > > > > > > Simpson (1992, 1997) suggested that the beneficial effects of > EFAs > > in > > > postviral fatigue syndrome are due to improvement in blood > > rheology. > > > He presented evidence of misshapen red blood cells in patients > with > > > myalgic encephalomyelitis, and recalled earlier work (Simpson, > Olds > > > and Hunter, 1984) in which it had been shown that the > filterability > > > of > > > the blood of smokers had been improved by taking evening primrose > > oil. > > > > > > Gray and ovic (1994) briefly described treatment of a > > > case-series in a private general practice setting involving 29 > CFS > > > patients and using a combination of dietary EFAs, " titrated > > > mental/physical activity/exercise, and psycho-therapeutic > > > interventions. " Twenty-seven out of the 29 showed significant > > > improvement in 3 months or less, when only 2 of the 29 had shown > > any > > > improvement over the previous year. Twenty who had been unfit for > > > full time duties for more than 3 years prior to treatment became > > fit > > > for full time duties in an average of 111 days after beginning > > > treatment. When they were followed up an average of 16 months > > later, > > > 27 out of the 28 were still improved compared to pretreatment, > and > > 20 > > > of them had experienced more improvement beyond that from the > > initial > > > 3 months of treatment. > > > > > > Warren, McKendrick and Peet (1999) attempted to replicate the > Behan > > > et > > > al. (1990) trial. They studied 50 patients who met the Oxford > > > criteria (Sharpe et al., 1991) and 25 age- and sex-matched > controls > > > for the first 25 of the patients. The treatment was the same as > in > > > the Behan, et al. trial, but the placebo was sunflower oil, > > > containing > > > linoleic acid, saturated fatty acids, monounsaturated fatty > acids, > > > and > > > a small amount of alpha linolenic acid. It is not clear from the > > > wording in their paper what the daily dose of these was in the > > > placebo > > > group. Before the treatment, they did not see any significant > > > differences in the red blood cell fatty acids composition between > > the > > > patients and the controls. They also did not see significant > > > differences in post-treatment symptoms between the treatment and > > > control groups, nor did they see significant differences in the > > fatty > > > acids composition of the red blood cells post-treatment. This > lack > > of > > > significant improvement may not be inconsistent with the Behan et > > al. > > > study, since Warren et al. appear to have sampled a different > > subset > > > of patients, based on the different criteria and the different > > > findings in initial red blood cell EFA levels. Warren et al. > noted > > > that the Oxford criteria (Sharpe et al., 1991) which they used do > > not > > > require the patient to have suffered from a demonstrable viral > > > illness, which was a criterion in the Behan et al. (1990) study. > > > Warren et al. also pointed out that it is not clear whether the > > > placebo they used had a therapeutic benefit of its own, since the > > > patients on the sunflower oil placebo showed a trend toward > greater > > > improvement than those in the treatment group. > > > > > > Ozgocmen, Catal, Ardicoglu and Kamanli (2000) conducted an open- > > > label, > > > non-controlled, single-blind study of omega-3 EFA treatment in > FM. > > > They studied twelve female patients who met the ACR criteria > (Wolfe > > > et > > > al., 1990). The treatment consisted of four weeks of 4.5 g of > fish > > > oil per day. The daily dose included 1600 mg of total omega-3 > EFAs, > > > of which 810 mg was EPA, and 540 mg was DHA. Nine mg of vitamin E > > > were > > > also included. They found significant decreases in total > > cholesterol, > > > tender point counts, pain, fatigue and depression, and a > > significant > > > increase in chest expansion. > > > > > > Taken together, these studies suggest to me that EFA > > supplementation > > > can be beneficial in both CFS and FM , but that it is important > to > > > ascertain whether or not a deficiency is present before deciding > > upon > > > this treatment, since it did not appear to be helpful when > > > deficiencies were known to be absent. > > > > > > > > > Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Does this include fish oil and fish oil supplements? What about the more stable oils like olive oil and sesame oil? Thank you! Nina Essential Fatty Acids In a message dated 2/10/2005 5:24:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, mousepotato_uk@... writes: I take a good multivit and a high-dose EFA supplement (EPA/DHA) which is supposed to be good for brain fog. === Again, a reminder that Dr Ray Peat, who has studied hormones and dietary fats since 1968, warns against the use of any polyunsaturated vegetable oils. For the last 20 years, he has been interviewing EFA researchers, asking them for evidence that there are such things as " essential fatty acids. " All of them cite the same 1929 research paper, which was inconclusive at best. Meanwhile, study after study published in the medical literature show that the health of test animals improves when you remove polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) from their diet, and that their health deteriorates when you add them. The easiest way to test the accuracy of his findings is to replace all PUFAs with coconut oil and see if your health improves. That means going without EFA supplements, which he says cause brain fog. Dr Peat says that PUFAs bind with cells and interfere with all of the body's chemical reactions, suppressing the thyroid, lowering metabolism, and contributing to heart disease, diabetes, weight gain, depression, skin/hair problems, cancer, arthritis, auto-immune disorders, and other chronic conditions. He says it takes most adults about 2 years (on a dose of 3-1/2 to 4 tablespoons coconut oil per day) to replace the damaged PUFAs that are in the cells. During that time, the body releases PUFAs from cells during times of stress, while fasting, and while sleeping. This release of stored PUFAs triggers a recurrence of symptoms, so he says it's important to maintain a daily dose of coconut oil and avoid all PUFAs. For his papers on this subject and a bibliography of references from the medical literature, see his website: _www.efn.org/~raypeat_ (http://www.efn.org/~raypeat) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 In a message dated 2/11/2005 8:46:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, ninalynn@... writes: Does this include fish oil and fish oil supplements? What about the more stable oils like olive oil and sesame oil? Thank you! === Dear Nina, Again quoting Dr Peat, the answer is yes, his warning includes fish oils and fish oil supplements. He does think highly of olive oil, but only if used in combination with larger quantities of coconut oil. See his articles at Dr Mercola's website, _www.mercola.com_ (http://www.mercola.com) , and his own website, _www.efn.org/~raypeat_ (http://www.efn.org/~raypeat) . CJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 This seems bizarre to me. It's been known for a long time that the world's healthiest peoples eat fish. It's eaten everywhere, always has been. Nina Re: Essential Fatty Acids In a message dated 2/11/2005 8:46:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, ninalynn@... writes: Does this include fish oil and fish oil supplements? What about the more stable oils like olive oil and sesame oil? Thank you! === Dear Nina, Again quoting Dr Peat, the answer is yes, his warning includes fish oils and fish oil supplements. He does think highly of olive oil, but only if used in combination with larger quantities of coconut oil. See his articles at Dr Mercola's website, _www.mercola.com_ (http://www.mercola.com) , and his own website, _www.efn.org/~raypeat_ (http://www.efn.org/~raypeat) . CJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 , are you saying that when used for cooking, they can be taken long-term, but " taken " as a medicine they should be limited? I don't eat fish, I basically don't like eating animal products. I take 2 fish-oil capsules per day. Is this a mistake? Regarding Dr. Peat: I think I see where his thinking isn't right. He is using reductionism: one component at a time. When these oils exist in nature, their plant (or animal) contains factors that balance it and neutralize the harm it can do. For example, corn, safflower and soybean oil, which have the highest polyunsaturates, also have the highest Vitamin E - more than 1000 times what VCO has (see http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm). Vitamin E protects the oils from oxidation. Modern processing destroys the Vitamin E, so there you have it. That is why these attempts to heal the body with " seleneum " , " licopene " , and various other extracted components don't work. Studies keep on showing that they don't work, and in fact can do harm. You gotta eat the whole food. Extracting oil, juice and so forth is OK in small quantities; extracting beta carotene, licopene, and the alphabet soups are not such a good idea, except in extreme cases where drugs are clearly called for as a short-term solution. Synthesizing them in a laboratory is even worse. Thank you, Nina Re: Essential Fatty Acids In a message dated 2/11/2005 8:46:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, ninalynn@... writes: Does this include fish oil and fish oil supplements? What about the more stable oils like olive oil and sesame oil? Thank you! === Dear Nina, Again quoting Dr Peat, the answer is yes, his warning includes fish oils and fish oil supplements. He does think highly of olive oil, but only if used in combination with larger quantities of coconut oil. See his articles at Dr Mercola's website, _www.mercola.com_ (http://www.mercola.com) , and his own website, _www.efn.org/~raypeat_ (http://www.efn.org/~raypeat) . CJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 I feel Peat is dead wrong about both flaxseed oil and fish oil. Health comes from a balanced diet, not from selecting one food and eliminating all other foods from the diet. Alobar RE: Essential Fatty Acids > > This seems bizarre to me. It's been known for a long time that the world's > healthiest peoples eat fish. It's eaten everywhere, always has been. > > Nina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 I take licopene daily. I can't eat tomatoes because I am diabetic. Sure, whole tomatoes have lots more good stuff, but I can't handle the sugar. I have been taking selenium daily for over 20 years now. It helps prevent cancer from car exhaust. I wish I could afford to live in the country away from cars, but so long as I must live in the city, selenium is my friend. I am a big fan of supplements. I feel that supplements improve the quality of my life. Fish oil & flaxseed oil are among my daily supplements. Peat says we do not need essential fatty acids. I propose a test. Let someone who follows Peat stay away from all EFAs for 20 years & I will take my cod liver oil & flaxseed oil for 20 years. We'll compare health at the end of 20 years -- assuming the other person is still alive then! In my opinion, I think it borders on criminal to try to get people to stop taking EFAs by saying they are non-essential. Alobar RE: Essential Fatty Acids > > , > > are you saying that when used for cooking, they can be taken long-term, but > " taken " as a medicine they should be limited? > > I don't eat fish, I basically don't like eating animal products. I take 2 > fish-oil capsules per day. Is this a mistake? > > Regarding Dr. Peat: I think I see where his thinking isn't right. He is > using reductionism: one component at a time. When these oils exist in > nature, their plant (or animal) contains factors that balance it and > neutralize the harm it can do. For example, corn, safflower and soybean > oil, which have the highest polyunsaturates, also have the highest Vitamin > E - more than 1000 times what VCO has (see > http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm). Vitamin E protects the > oils from oxidation. Modern processing destroys the Vitamin E, so there you > have it. > > That is why these attempts to heal the body with " seleneum " , " licopene " , and > various other extracted components don't work. Studies keep on showing that > they don't work, and in fact can do harm. You gotta eat the whole food. > Extracting oil, juice and so forth is OK in small quantities; extracting > beta carotene, licopene, and the alphabet soups are not such a good idea, > except in extreme cases where drugs are clearly called for as a short-term > solution. Synthesizing them in a laboratory is even worse. > > Thank you, > Nina > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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