Re: Low testosterone

[Guest guest]

Dean,

Hypogonadism MAY BE, not is one of the complications from HIV infection.

I'm not sure what incidence of primary hypo is in HIV/AIDS group.

I don't think that I said that.... that approach had never occurred to

me....I was just parroting what I remember from the poster...I was very

surprised.

OR eon

Re: Low Testosterone

I believe it was Oreon who originally said that hypogonadism is one

of the complications of HIV/AIDS. And the reason it might be good to

find a Dr. who has a lot of HIV/AIDS patients is that they would

presumeably be much more experienced with Hormone Replacement Therapy.

Dean

> > > > I noticed posts about " low " T levels. More than one doctor

> > around

> > > here

> > > > defines anything above 240 as normal because the lab

> > report says

> > > so based on

> > > > my experience. In fact, my doctor tried to convince me that

> > 214

> > > was only a

> > > > little low and nothing to worry about. Here, posters claim

> that

> > > 391 is low.

> > > > The doctors in my neck of the woods would label a 391er as

> > a

> > > Testosterone

> > > > abuser. That is the real problem - T can be abused and is a

> > > controlled

> > > > substance.

> > > >

> > > > Conversely, I am not sure if TRT is the best option for a guy

> > with

> > > 391. 391

> > > > is not that low and is a good candidate for manipulation with

> > > drugs like

> > > > Clomid and HCG. The side effects of TRT are pretty rough -

> > > sterile, E2

> > > > problems, normal T production shutdown, shrinking balls.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Many patients with full blown AIDS used to be (still are?) given

testosterone to reduce muscle wasting. This may have lead the original

poster to conclude that HIV/AIDS causes hypogonadism; but that's not how I

interpreted the magazine articles I'd read on the subject a few years ago.

Re: Low Testosterone

I believe it was Oreon who originally said that hypogonadism is one of the

complications of HIV/AIDS. And the reason it might be good to find a Dr. who

has a lot of HIV/AIDS patients is that they would presumeably be much more

experienced with Hormone Replacement Therapy.

Dean

> > > > I noticed posts about " low " T levels. More than one doctor

> > around

> > > here

> > > > defines anything above 240 as normal because the lab

> > report says

> > > so based on

> > > > my experience. In fact, my doctor tried to convince me that

> > 214

> > > was only a

> > > > little low and nothing to worry about. Here, posters claim

> that

> > > 391 is low.

> > > > The doctors in my neck of the woods would label a 391er as

> > a

> > > Testosterone

> > > > abuser. That is the real problem - T can be abused and is a

> > > controlled

> > > > substance.

> > > >

> > > > Conversely, I am not sure if TRT is the best option for a guy

> > with

> > > 391. 391

> > > > is not that low and is a good candidate for manipulation with

> > > drugs like

> > > > Clomid and HCG. The side effects of TRT are pretty rough -

> > > sterile, E2

> > > > problems, normal T production shutdown, shrinking balls.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dave,

Good point! I tipped from HIV+ >>>> AIDS in July '98; May '98 my CD4 cell

count dropped to double digit and viral load was ~500,000. That's one half

criteria for AIDS diagnosis, CD4 cells <200. July I was diagnosed with HIV

encephalopathy, an opportunistic infection (OI), so that was other half. I

never had the two common OIs, Candida (thrush) and pneumocystis carinii

pneumonia (PCP) and was hospitalized for a month; left leg was paralyzed

from knee down so I had to learn too walk again.

I lost a lot of weight ~25-30 lbs' but I recover fast.

'00 I began a 12 wk weight training program at Body Positive here in

Houston...a baseline BIA is run on all prospective clients and periodically

over the 12 wk program. During the basic 12 wk program I gained 10 lbs lean

cell mass; at the time I was injecting 200 mg depo-testosterone/weekly per

my PCP's Rx.

Below are my BIA values. My highest values in all parameters were on

10-27-00; going out of town two weeks over Thanksgiving in '00 threw my

regular gym routine off; I made several attempts to start back to gym but

have never sustained that effort.

In spite of this....my values are still good as I had a BIA run on 5-17-04.

Date.......Phase Angle.............%BCM................%Fat.............Wt

5-22-00 6.1 39 17 179

6-30-00 6.0 39 16 182

8-11-00 6.2 40 16 194

10-27-00 6.4 40 16 191

1-19-01 6.3 38 19 196

5-15-01 5.8 38 19 192

7-24-01 6.0 39 19 190

5-17-04 5.7 39 17 186

From this site http://www.poz.com/index.cfm?p=article & art_id=2294

Phase angle: This is a mathematically calculated value that normally

averages more than 5 in healthy people.

Body Cell Mass (BCM): For example, body cell mass (BCM) is calculated from

weight and the BIA readings. The average normal ranges for BCM are 35 to 45

percent for men and 30 to 40 percent for women, but you simply need to be

" normal " for your weight. The best outcome would be to match the " ideal body

cell mass. " If you're dropping below that, you're losing ground. (the normal

range is 35%-45%).

From this site: http://interactive.rjlsystems.com/statistics.html

Recommended Body Fat Levels:

Male:

Low: 6-10% fat

Optimal: 11-17% fat

Moderate: 18-20% fat

Obesity: Greater than 25% fat

Normal Fat Free Mass (FFM)

FFM from BIA: = 62.48 +/- 10.21

FFM pred norm: = 62.46 +/- 10.85

The Advent of protease inhibitors for HIV+ individuals has curbed wasting

significantly and allowed individuals wasted severely to recover.

Re: Low Testosterone

I believe it was Oreon who originally said that hypogonadism is one of the

complications of HIV/AIDS. And the reason it might be good to find a Dr. who

has a lot of HIV/AIDS patients is that they would presumeably be much more

experienced with Hormone Replacement Therapy.

Dean

> > > > I noticed posts about " low " T levels. More than one doctor

> > around

> > > here

> > > > defines anything above 240 as normal because the lab

> > report says

> > > so based on

> > > > my experience. In fact, my doctor tried to convince me that

> > 214

> > > was only a

> > > > little low and nothing to worry about. Here, posters claim

> that

> > > 391 is low.

> > > > The doctors in my neck of the woods would label a 391er as

> > a

> > > Testosterone

> > > > abuser. That is the real problem - T can be abused and is a

> > > controlled

> > > > substance.

> > > >

> > > > Conversely, I am not sure if TRT is the best option for a guy

> > with

> > > 391. 391

> > > > is not that low and is a good candidate for manipulation with

> > > drugs like

> > > > Clomid and HCG. The side effects of TRT are pretty rough -

> > > sterile, E2

> > > > problems, normal T production shutdown, shrinking balls.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Ow!

Get that man Testosterone STAT!

> Hello,

> I am a 36 year old male. I have been having health problems for

> sometime and no Dr. is able to tell me what it is. They are wanting

> to label me with fibromyalgia. I recently had test results come

> back for my testosterone. The endocrinologist said that most of my

> results are in the low portion of the normal range, but nevertheless

> normal. He said that giving me testosterone would not help me.

> Have any of you had the same experience only to find out that the

> Dr. was wrong. I have always lead a very active lifestyle and for

> the last year and a half I have been half the man. My little girl

> begs be to wrestle with her and I'm too tired. My wife wants sex

> and I have ED. My job has become very difficult. And my TREK road

> bike is sitting in the shed. HELP!!! Below are the test results.

> What do you all think?

>

> T4 FREE is 1.12 Normal is [0.89-

> 1.80]

> TSH is 0.50 Normal is [0.35-

> 5.50]

> Sex Hormone Globulin is 20 nmol/L Normal is 13-71

> Prolactin is 1.9 ng/mL Normal is 2.1-17.7

> Follicle Stimulating Hormone is 3.6 IU/L Normal is 1.4-14.6 IU/L

> Luteinizing Hormone is 2.6 IU/L Normal is 1.5-9.3 IU/L

> Testosterone, FREE is 65.9 pg/L Normal is 47.0-244.0

> Testosterone, % FREE is 2.3% Normal is 1.6-2.9

> Testosterone is 291 ng/dL Normal is 400-1080

>

> If this means something to some one please let me know.

>

> Thank you!

> 7

> BEGIN:VCARD

> VERSION:2.1

> N:Tipton;;;Champaign County Wildlife Officer

> FN: Tipton

> ORG:ODNR, Division of Wildlife

> TITLE:State Wildlife Officer

> TEL;WORK;VOICE:614-644-3929 Ext. 1201

> ADR;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;P.O. Box 694 =0D=0A;St.

> Paris;Ohio;43072;Champaign

> LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 694 =0D=0A=0D=0ASt.

> Paris, Ohio 43072=0D=0AChampaign

> EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:tipton@b...

> REV:20041009T182415Z

> END:VCARD

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Dealing with CFS or Chronic Fatigue is not an easy matter and one has

to deal with it systematically, tackling a number of different issues

and going through a process of elimination until you hit the right

issue or in many cases issues.

1. Check thyroid function

2. Check Adrenal Function

3. Check Hypoglycemia(low blood sugar)

3. Check Hormones

The following link has a lot of information and links to other

information that I have posted in other groups. This information is

detailed enough for him to help himself.

/message/17604

If he has any other questions, I would be glad to help.

> Hello,

> I am a 36 year old male. I have been having health problems for

> sometime and no Dr. is able to tell me what it is. They are

wanting

> to label me with fibromyalgia. I recently had test results come

> back for my testosterone. The endocrinologist said that most of my

> results are in the low portion of the normal range, but

nevertheless

> normal. He said that giving me testosterone would not help me.

> Have any of you had the same experience only to find out that the

> Dr. was wrong. I have always lead a very active lifestyle and for

> the last year and a half I have been half the man. My little girl

> begs be to wrestle with her and I'm too tired. My wife wants sex

> and I have ED. My job has become very difficult. And my TREK road

> bike is sitting in the shed. HELP!!! Below are the test results.

> What do you all think?

>

> T4 FREE is 1.12 Normal is [0.89-

> 1.80]

> TSH is 0.50 Normal is

[0.35-

> 5.50]

> Sex Hormone Globulin is 20 nmol/L Normal is 13-71

> Prolactin is 1.9 ng/mL Normal is 2.1-17.7

> Follicle Stimulating Hormone is 3.6 IU/L Normal is 1.4-14.6 IU/L

> Luteinizing Hormone is 2.6 IU/L Normal is 1.5-9.3 IU/L

> Testosterone, FREE is 65.9 pg/L Normal is 47.0-244.0

> Testosterone, % FREE is 2.3% Normal is 1.6-2.9

> Testosterone is 291 ng/dL Normal is 400-1080

>

> If this means something to some one please let me know.

>

> Thank you!

> 7

> BEGIN:VCARD

> VERSION:2.1

> N:Tipton;;;Champaign County Wildlife Officer

> FN: Tipton

> ORG:ODNR, Division of Wildlife

> TITLE:State Wildlife Officer

> TEL;WORK;VOICE:614-644-3929 Ext. 1201

> ADR;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;P.O. Box 694 =0D=0A;St.

> Paris;Ohio;43072;Champaign

> LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 694 =0D=0A=0D=0ASt.

> Paris, Ohio 43072=0D=0AChampaign

> EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:tipton@b...

> REV:20041009T182415Z

> END:VCARD

[Guest guest]

>

> I am putting this in for a new member I hope I don't get into

> trouble.

> Phil

>

No, but get him to sign up so he can read his replies.

Brad

[Guest guest]

> Hello,

> I am a 36 year old male. I have been having health problems for

> sometime and no Dr. is able to tell me what it is. They are wanting

> to label me with fibromyalgia. I recently had test results come

> back for my testosterone. The endocrinologist said that most of my

> results are in the low portion of the normal range, but nevertheless

> normal. He said that giving me testosterone would not help me.

> Have any of you had the same experience only to find out that the

> Dr. was wrong. I have always lead a very active lifestyle and for

> the last year and a half I have been half the man. My little girl

> begs be to wrestle with her and I'm too tired. My wife wants sex

> and I have ED. My job has become very difficult. And my TREK road

> bike is sitting in the shed. HELP!!! Below are the test results.

> What do you all think?

>

> T4 FREE is 1.12 Normal is [0.89-

> 1.80]

> TSH is 0.50 Normal is [0.35-

> 5.50]

> Sex Hormone Globulin is 20 nmol/L Normal is 13-71

> Prolactin is 1.9 ng/mL Normal is 2.1-17.7

> Follicle Stimulating Hormone is 3.6 IU/L Normal is 1.4-14.6 IU/L

> Luteinizing Hormone is 2.6 IU/L Normal is 1.5-9.3 IU/L

> Testosterone, FREE is 65.9 pg/L Normal is 47.0-244.0

> Testosterone, % FREE is 2.3% Normal is 1.6-2.9

> Testosterone is 291 ng/dL Normal is 400-1080

>

> If this means something to some one please let me know.

>

> Thank you!

> 7

> BEGIN:VCARD

> VERSION:2.1

> N:Tipton;;;Champaign County Wildlife Officer

> FN: Tipton

> ORG:ODNR, Division of Wildlife

> TITLE:State Wildlife Officer

> TEL;WORK;VOICE:614-644-3929 Ext. 1201

> ADR;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;P.O. Box 694 =0D=0A;St.

> Paris;Ohio;43072;Champaign

> LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 694 =0D=0A=0D=0ASt.

> Paris, Ohio 43072=0D=0AChampaign

> EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:tipton@b...

> REV:20041009T182415Z

> END:VCARD

[Guest guest]

He did but it takes time.

Phil

brad999us <no_reply > wrote:

>

> I am putting this in for a new member I hope I don't get into

> trouble.

> Phil

>

No, but get him to sign up so he can read his replies.

Brad

[Guest guest]

Sam,

It is important to get some follow up testing done a few weeks after

starting the androgel. You need to know if you are getting adequate

absorbtion and if you are on the proper dosage.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim I am glaid you came and posted here. One thing when you put on the

Testim just put it on your upper arms and shoulder no lower then your collar

bone on your chest. Putting it lower will cause problems with converson into E2

Estradiol. And like Mark said get tested again after using Testim for 4 weeks.

Get your Total and Free Testosterone along with E2 Estradiol, DHT, and DHEA-SO4.

I had very high E2 and it caused me to have bad ED, and trouble reaching an

orgasm. Plus a lot of the other things. Your case is different then mine you

need to heal and time is on your side. But if you keep you HRT levels good you

should recover faster. Ask your Dr. about using Cialis 20 mg evey 72 hrs. my

Dr. has me doing this along with keeping my E2 down I have NE all night long and

this is good health for the penis. Plus I can have sex when ever I want it

don't have to wait for a pill to work. And it is keeping my BP down so I am not

no BP meds.

Phil

Phil

patandjimellis <sam@...> wrote:

I posted this on a couple of groups to which I belong and someone

asked me to post it here.

Sam a.k.a. Jim

I had a nerve sparing radical prostatectomy on Sept. 30, 2004.

I was 66 years old at the time but have since turned 67.

Shortly after the catheter was removed I was wearing regular underwear

during

the day but wearing pullups at night because of leakage. Complete

continence

returned in about 6 weeks after the surgery.

I still have erection problems. 100 mg Viagra and 1000 mcg of MUSE produce

a " plump " sensitive penis but not enough firmness for penetration.

During the month of October at times I had problems with flu or cold like

symptoms that just seemed to hang on so I went to my regular doctor on

Nov.

1 and he told me my red blood count was 11 and to take a supplement. I

started taking an over the counter iron supplement. During November and

December I just seemed to drag around. I would get chills and then

sweats. My

Medicare HMO (Anthem Senior Advantage) offers partial payment on

prescriptions up to a certain point. I reached the max in November and

had to

pay 308 dollars for 2 mail prescriptions that usually cost 80 (40 for

each). Also, I had to refuse to

accept a prescription at a local pharmacy when I was charged 132

dollars for one that usually cost

20 dollars.

I went back to my Dr in January. He did blood work and said I was

anemic and

my testosterone was low.

My blood count was 9.8 and with 30 days of meds it is now up to 11.4 so he

discontinued that iron prescription.

My total testosterone reading was 175 which was listed as low with the

reference range being 241 to 827. He gave me a prescription for Testim

which

is a gel I apply to my chest, shoulders, and upper arms each morning

after my

shower. The dosage is 50 mg. He gave me a 6 month prescription and a copy

of the report to give to my urologist when I go to see him in several

months.

Any comments on this dosage and on my 175 reading? I think things are

changing somewhat. I still can't get an erection but my penis seems to be

hanging a little lower and if I handle it I can " fluff " it a little.

It now

seems like it

has some life and feeling in it. Before it was like a dead piece of

rope hanging

there.

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Sam (Jim),

I had that operation in June 2000, age 51, spared 1 of the 2

nerve bundles. I'd been diagnosed w/ hypogonadism, 10/21/98

151 ng/dL (241-827); highest know level between then and

cancer diagnosis was 273 ng/dL, 12/98, on Androderm.

Discontinued TRT after prostate cancer diagnosis, 3/00. First T

test after surgery, 9/00, was 62 ng/dL. Resumed TRT (AndroGel).

Interesting that we both were diagnosed with prostate cancer

with very low T levels, but that's another subject. Glad you (like

me) regained continence. Immediately after surgery I had to

re-define the expression " taking a leak " .

I really started getting soaking cold night sweats in the months

following surgery. I still get them if hormones get out of balance.

After recovery I was (am) able to have sex, sometimes with,

sometimes without Viagra, sometimes not at all. Energy & libido

seem to be the limiting factor. (Thought for the day: it's difficult to

benefit from Viagra if I lack the energy to get the damn lid off the

bottle...)

IMO you will see improvement when hormone levels improve. I

don't think you are receiving adequate treatment. I think starting

from 175ng/dL requires frequent monitoring. Like blood tests for

total T, free T & E2 (estradiol) every 6 weeks, with appropriate

dosage adjustment. (I learned this the hard way.)

Anemia treatment? I don't know much about it. What was tested,

& what were the labs ranges? If those levels were for a RBC,

you're over range. If they were for hemoglobin, you're below

range. So... if I understand correctly, your November level of 11

was sufficient to warrant treatment (with supplements), Your

December level was 9.8 (supplements didn't help), and your

most recent level was 11.4, so the doc took you off supplements.

Again, I don't know anemia, but I don't see the logic in that

treatment.

You mention your total T level, but others are conspicuous in

their absence: free T, DHEA-S, Estradiol (E2), FSH, LH, Prolactin

and SHBG. A bone density test (DEXA) is appropriate. An MRI

should be done to rule out a pituitary tumor (if found, almost

certainly benign and treatable). Suggestion: call your doc & ask if

you can get the above tests, or at least total T, free T & estradiol

4-6 weeks after when you started Testim. If he has a problem

with the tests or timing, get back to us. We'll help you find a new

doc who understands this stuff.

Any military service? Access to the VA pharmacy has been great

for me. $7 max. copay, great service. Prostate cancer is now

presumed to be agent-orange related for anyone who was in,

over or offshore Viet Nam.

Testim or a similar compounded cream or gel shouldn't be that

expensive. Have you searched prices online? Of course any med

that doesn't work is too expensive. As is any doctor's visit without

correct treatment.

I do believe you will see major improvement with correct

hormone levels and anemia resolution.

Best,

Bruce

(corrections & contrary opinions welcome.)

>

>

> I posted this on a couple of groups to which I belong and

someone

> asked me to post it here.

> Sam a.k.a. Jim

>

>

> I had a nerve sparing radical prostatectomy on Sept. 30, 2004.

> I was 66 years old at the time but have since turned 67.

>

> Shortly after the catheter was removed I was wearing regular

underwear

> during

> the day but wearing pullups at night because of leakage.

Complete

> continence

> returned in about 6 weeks after the surgery.

>

> I still have erection problems. 100 mg Viagra and 1000 mcg of

MUSE produce

> a " plump " sensitive penis but not enough firmness for

penetration.

>

> During the month of October at times I had problems with flu or

cold like

> symptoms that just seemed to hang on so I went to my regular

doctor on

> Nov.

> 1 and he told me my red blood count was 11 and to take a

supplement. I

> started taking an over the counter iron supplement. During

November and

> December I just seemed to drag around. I would get chills and

then

> sweats. My

> Medicare HMO (Anthem Senior Advantage) offers partial

payment on

> prescriptions up to a certain point. I reached the max in

November and

> had to

> pay 308 dollars for 2 mail prescriptions that usually cost 80 (40

for

> each). Also, I had to refuse to

>

> accept a prescription at a local pharmacy when I was charged

132

> dollars for one that usually cost

> 20 dollars.

>

> I went back to my Dr in January. He did blood work and said I

was

> anemic and

> my testosterone was low.

>

> My blood count was 9.8 and with 30 days of meds it is now up

to 11.4 so he

> discontinued that iron prescription.

>

> My total testosterone reading was 175 which was listed as low

with the

> reference range being 241 to 827. He gave me a prescription

for Testim

> which

> is a gel I apply to my chest, shoulders, and upper arms each

morning

> after my

> shower. The dosage is 50 mg. He gave me a 6 month

prescription and a copy

> of the report to give to my urologist when I go to see him in

several

> months.

>

> Any comments on this dosage and on my 175 reading? I think

things are

> changing somewhat. I still can't get an erection but my penis

seems to be

> hanging a little lower and if I handle it I can " fluff " it a little.

> It now

> seems like it

> has some life and feeling in it. Before it was like a dead piece

of

> rope hanging

>

> there.

[Guest guest]

Your results sound similar to mine, which was caused by Hemochromatosis. My endo

says it is a petuitary problem because the LH and FSH, produced by the

petuitary, should be higher trying to raise the testosterone level. HH is a

genetic blood disorder where your body absorbs too much iron from food when it

passes through the intestines. The iron overload then starts fouling up the

other organs in your body. To check for HH, have them do tests for serum iron,

ferritin, and TIBC. If they are high, they will do a DNA test that checks for

the genetic mutation that causes it. But there are probably be many different

causes besides this one. Just something to look at.

winters1jm <Lwwinters6@...> wrote:

I am a 28 year old male and have recently had to start testosterone

replacement. I have been seeing an endocrinologist and he has put me

on androgel. I have had an MRI of my pituitary gland and all of my

hormone levels checked and everything but the testosterone is normal.

He says from this info that there is really no way to find out whats

causing my low testosterone. He thinks its probably secondary

hypogonadism because my FSH and LH levels were normal. Is this

reliable or do i need a second opinion?? If so, what kind of doc do i

need to see for the second opinion, an endo or a urologist? I would

really like to know what is causing this since i am so young.

[Guest guest]

If you can post your test results with the range and units we can help you much

better.

Phil

winters1jm <Lwwinters6@...> wrote:

I am a 28 year old male and have recently had to start testosterone

replacement. I have been seeing an endocrinologist and he has put me

on androgel. I have had an MRI of my pituitary gland and all of my

hormone levels checked and everything but the testosterone is normal.

He says from this info that there is really no way to find out whats

causing my low testosterone. He thinks its probably secondary

hypogonadism because my FSH and LH levels were normal. Is this

reliable or do i need a second opinion?? If so, what kind of doc do i

need to see for the second opinion, an endo or a urologist? I would

really like to know what is causing this since i am so young.

[Guest guest]

FSH and LH levels are normal or high in cases of primary hypogonadism.

I hope that was a misspeak on his part. If not, RUN from this doctor,

he does not know about low T. Like Phil said, post your results and

the reference ranges supplied with them.

>

> I am a 28 year old male and have recently had to start testosterone

> replacement. I have been seeing an endocrinologist and he has put me

> on androgel. I have had an MRI of my pituitary gland and all of my

> hormone levels checked and everything but the testosterone is normal.

> He says from this info that there is really no way to find out whats

> causing my low testosterone. He thinks its probably secondary

> hypogonadism because my FSH and LH levels were normal. Is this

> reliable or do i need a second opinion?? If so, what kind of doc do i

> need to see for the second opinion, an endo or a urologist? I would

> really like to know what is causing this since i am so young.

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for your reply. What did your doc do when they found out you had

hemochromatasis or is it curable.

Thanks

Josh

[Guest guest]

Sorry guys i forgot to put my info in yesterday. Also, i made a

mistake and said my FSH and LH was normal. It is, however according

to these results it is very low normal.

Back in August here were the labs that were taken at that time.

Total Testosterone 247 ng/dL Normal-241-827ng/dL

Prolactin 20.0 ng/mL Normal 2.1-17.7 ng/dL

LH 2.5 Normal mIU/mL Normal 1.5-9.3

FSH 4.4 mIU/mL Normal 1.4-18.1

ACTH 11 pg/mL Normal 6-48

At this time I start taking Testosterone by shot from my Urologist

and then he referred me to an Endo. I also had a MRI of my pituitary

which came back OK. The Endo wanted me to get off of an

antidepressant i was taking called Lexapro, he felt that this might

be the culprit of my low T. However, after getting off the shots and

the Lexapro i was retested and my T was still low so he started me on

Androgel. I started out on a low dose taking 3.25 mg a day. I went

back about three weeks ago and was retested and here's what i got.

Total Test - 2.17 ng/mL (2.00-11.00)

Free Test - 44.7 pg/mL (47.0-244.0)

Prolactin 8.9 ng/mL (<15)

Estradiol <20 pg/mL (<56)

Also had my thyroid checked

TSH 0.90mcU/mL 0.3-5

FT4 1.23 ng/dL 0.6-1.8

He has now doubled my dose of test to 7.5 mg of Androgel a day. He

says he thinks my case is secondary hypogonadism and as of right now

there is no way of telling what the culprit is??

Any suggestions??

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry i told you guys wrong, my LH and FSH are normal but very low

normal as was my ACTH. I posted all of my labwork so you can see.

Thanks for your reply.

[Guest guest]

Make sure you get back and test in 4 to 6 weeks some men can't do gels it does

not get there levels up high enough. I do shots of T every 3 days and HCG

everyday this works the best for me. I need to work hard on my E2 levels and as

long as I keep them down I do good. You should start to feel better in a short

time.

Phil

winters1jm <Lwwinters6@...> wrote:

Sorry guys i forgot to put my info in yesterday. Also, i made a

mistake and said my FSH and LH was normal. It is, however according

to these results it is very low normal.

Back in August here were the labs that were taken at that time.

Total Testosterone 247 ng/dL Normal-241-827ng/dL

Prolactin 20.0 ng/mL Normal 2.1-17.7 ng/dL

LH 2.5 Normal mIU/mL Normal 1.5-9.3

FSH 4.4 mIU/mL Normal 1.4-18.1

ACTH 11 pg/mL Normal 6-48

At this time I start taking Testosterone by shot from my Urologist

and then he referred me to an Endo. I also had a MRI of my pituitary

which came back OK. The Endo wanted me to get off of an

antidepressant i was taking called Lexapro, he felt that this might

be the culprit of my low T. However, after getting off the shots and

the Lexapro i was retested and my T was still low so he started me on

Androgel. I started out on a low dose taking 3.25 mg a day. I went

back about three weeks ago and was retested and here's what i got.

Total Test - 2.17 ng/mL (2.00-11.00)

Free Test - 44.7 pg/mL (47.0-244.0)

Prolactin 8.9 ng/mL (<15)

Estradiol <20 pg/mL (<56)

Also had my thyroid checked

TSH 0.90mcU/mL 0.3-5

FT4 1.23 ng/dL 0.6-1.8

He has now doubled my dose of test to 7.5 mg of Androgel a day. He

says he thinks my case is secondary hypogonadism and as of right now

there is no way of telling what the culprit is??

Any suggestions??

[Guest guest]

Josh,

It is not curable, but the treatment is simple. No drugs! You just get rid of

the iron through blood draws, very similar to donating blood. Since it is blood

related, you are treated by a hematologist.

Lwwinters6@... wrote:

,

Thanks for your reply. What did your doc do when they found out you had

hemochromatasis or is it curable.

Thanks

Josh

[Guest guest]

So your telling me that you dont have to have testosterone

replacement you just get rid of some blood which lowers your iron

levels?? Was you LH and FSH low to low normal when tested as well?

Josh

[Guest guest]

No, not exactly. I was saying that HH can cause the low Testosterone

(hypogonadism), and to stop HH from doing further damage, such as Hypogonadism,

the iron levels have to be kept at the low normal range. That is where I am at

now. I have to wait until next month to retest to see if the testosterone

levels will come back up now that the iron level is ok. The endocrinologist says

that some guys in their 30's and younger with HH under control can have their

testosterone levels rebound back to normal. If the levels do not come up by the

middle of March, I will have to do the Testosterone treatment. My LH and FSH

were low normal, with very low T levels, about 180.

winters1jm <Lwwinters6@...> wrote:

So your telling me that you dont have to have testosterone

replacement you just get rid of some blood which lowers your iron

levels?? Was you LH and FSH low to low normal when tested as well?

Josh

[Guest guest]

I hope this works for you I have read from many men that doing this worked

for them but it was a slow process. Some had to jump start there testis with

Clomid.

Phil

Bowling <bowling6715@...> wrote:

No, not exactly. I was saying that HH can cause the low Testosterone

(hypogonadism), and to stop HH from doing further damage, such as Hypogonadism,

the iron levels have to be kept at the low normal range. That is where I am at

now. I have to wait until next month to retest to see if the testosterone levels

will come back up now that the iron level is ok. The endocrinologist says that

some guys in their 30's and younger with HH under control can have their

testosterone levels rebound back to normal. If the levels do not come up by the

middle of March, I will have to do the Testosterone treatment. My LH and FSH

were low normal, with very low T levels, about 180.

winters1jm wrote:

So your telling me that you dont have to have testosterone

replacement you just get rid of some blood which lowers your iron

levels?? Was you LH and FSH low to low normal when tested as well?

Josh

[Guest guest]

Oh ok, i got you. i'm definitely going to check that out and see.

Thanks for the help.

josh

[Guest guest]

Phil,

What does Clomid do exactly?

Josh

[Guest guest]

I have never used it so here is a link to a search.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & lr= & q=clomid

Phil

winters1jm <Lwwinters6@...> wrote:

Phil,

What does Clomid do exactly?

Josh