Re: Water?/Ray's answer

[Guest guest]

The original question was whether the liquid in coffee could be counted

for meeting the one's daily liquid consumption, not whether caffeine is

good or bad for you. My simple answer is that the liquid in caffeinated

beverages should be counted as a liquid for dehydration purposes. There

are other side issues with caffeine intake, but they were not raised in

the original question, so I did not address them.

> And the 25 years you spent

> drinking soda were not years as a post-op, were they? If not, you can't

> necessarily transfer your experience to " us. "

I think those 25 years apply for the purpose of evaluating whether

drinking soda is harmful on the point of causing dehydration. There is

no apparent reason why WLS should affect the need for liquid intake.

>

> There are other reasons to avoid caffeine besides the issue of hydration and

> whether or not it's a diuretic. It interferes with calcium absorption. It

> contributes to the formation of kidney stones. " We " need all the calcium we

> can get. We are more prone to stones than normies.

You are mixing apples with oranges when you associate diminished calcium

absorption and an increase in kidney stones.

Patients with kidney stones are routinely advised to increase their

fluid intake. Questions arise such as: is the type of beverage important

and will the presence of caffeine, which may cause weak diuresis, pose a

problem for such patients? In two prospective studies Curhan et al (1,2)

, found that greater intakes of regular and decaffeinated coffee, tea,

beer and wine were associated with a decreased risk of stone formation,

whereas greater intakes of apple and grapefruit juices were related to

increased risk. Leitzmann et al (3) using the same mass of data

suggested that decaffeinated coffee was not associated with decreased

risk, but agreed with Curhan and concluded that the adjusted relative

risk for those who regularly drank caffeinated coffee decreased very

significantly. Studies show that caffeine consumption has little if any

affect on kidney stone formulation.

1. Curhan, G.C. et al. American Journal of Epidemiology, 143, 240-247,

1996.

2. Curhan, G.C. et al. ls of Internal Medicine, 128, 534-540, 1998.

3. Leitzmann, M.F. et al. Journal of American Medical Association, 281,

2106-2112, 1999.

Calcium absorption is a different issue. From the Journal of AMA:

(JAMA, 26 Jan. 1994, p. 280-3.)

" There was a significant association between (drinking more) caffeinated

coffee and decreasing bone mineral density at both the hip and the

spine, independent of age, obesity, years since menopause, and the use

of tobacco, estrogen, alcohol, thiazides, and calcium supplements [in

women]. "

Except when:

" Bone density did not vary [...] in women who reported drinking at least

one glass of milk per day during most of their adult lives. "

That is, if women drink a glass of milk a day, there is no need to worry

about the caffeine related loss of calcium. There is an open question

here as to whether this would apply to a woman who has had a gastric

bypass. If you are a non-WLS male, there is no association between

caffeine consumption and bone mineral density. It would be pure

speculation to suggest that this is not also applicable to WLS men.

Ray Hooks

For WLS nutrition info, visit

http://www.bariatricsupplementsystem.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/02 4:26:46 AM Central Standard Time,

rlogle@... writes:

<< My surgeon say's drink

up. He's been doin' the RNY since it was introduced. I trusted him enough to

cut on me, i'll damn sure trust him enough to tell me what to and what not

to drink...LOL.... >>

-----------------------------------

Randy,

I'm glad you're one of the ones who's different enuf to not be bothered by

what you're drinking, and my earnest wish is for your continued good health

with no problems. As for trusting surgeons? Yeah, I trusted mine to cut me,

and followed his dietary recommendations for awhile too. But those included

take Tums to get your calcium and 60g is plenty protein; u can get all of it

from food. Surgeons, like other people, are the same in that they're all

different.

Carol A