Re: just my two cents worth -- health care professional

[Guest guest]

In theory, I agree, and I also totally agree that each of us bears

individual responsibility for our own decisions.

In practice, however, there is a problem in that few of the M.D.'s

that do the bariatric surgery, and perhaps even fewer primary care

physicians are all that savvy about the real nutritional and

medication needs and special needs of WLS patients. Case in point: I

asked my PCP for an order for a DEXAscan when my PTH continued to be

high. " Sure, I'll write an order, " said he, a locally acclaimed

internist, " but, what reason do I put down when the insurance company

asks me to justify the expense of the referral? " " Simple, " says I,

" it's because my consistently high PTH level could signify bone

demineralization, and the DEXAscan is the best tool to look for

that. " " Oh, yeah, right you are! " Well, that was just one little

molehill and by no means the tip of a mountain looming on my horizon,

but I offered it to emphasize that the docs are not always attuned to

our special needs as opposed to what can be expected for the " general

population " (whatever THAT is). And, for those of us who have had

surgeries other than the RNY, we find that just about all of the WLS

dietary literature and instructions from the docs is written for RNY

patients and doesn't respond to our special situations (we needn't be

guided by the Rules of the Pouch, for example). So, we lose that

absolute faith in our docs and even have to question them. Yes, in

the very end, we have to decide for ourselves and not trust blindly

in our health care professionals.

--Steve

At 11:52 AM -0500 11/14/02, BandonBarb@... wrote:

>When we question something, we always have the option to take it to our

>health care professional.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/15/2002 12:20:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, sng@...

writes:

> So, we lose that

> absolute faith in our docs and even have to question them. Yes, in

> the very end, we have to decide for ourselves and not trust blindly

> in our health care professionals.

>

*****************************

Boy, do I agree with this one, Steve. However, I lost faith in the medical

profession many years ago as an obese woman whose weight was blamed for all

that ails her. Tunnel vision seems to be quite prevalent among doctors. It

really upsets me when I see people blindly trusting their health care

professionals, when so few really deserve our trust. But, by the same token,

hopefully, the great majority of people on this list know how to read and use

the information presented here. I, for one, find it invaluable. But, as

always, YMMV.

Just my $.02,

in NJ

[Guest guest]

As a 60's hippy, I lost blind faith in any mere mortal being. I usually get

into trouble whereever I go because I question everyone and everything.

Neither myself or anyone else is perfect. Every once in awhile I blow it

and believe in someone. But for the most part, I try not to put that burdon

on anyone. It is not just doctors. Your pharmacist can give you the wrong

pills. It is up to you to know what they should look like and check the

dosage to what is prescribed. Your meter reader can transpose a number.

Anything billed to you can have errors. A cop can be a criminal and someone

that appears to be a criminal can be a good guy. We don't even want to go

near campaign promises. I remember when I thought all of my teachers knew

better than me. Can we all say stock market gurus. The name of the game of

life is due diligence.

Buy thinking this way I have become more easy going and less critical. Since

I know that people working for me are not perfect, I don't get all bent out

of shape when they make mistakes.

My 2 cents

Fay Bayuk

[Guest guest]

>>>Buy thinking this way I have become more easy going and less critical.

Since I know that people working for me are not perfect, I don't get all

bent out of shape when they make mistakes.

Wise words, Fay. I've had some good doctors, and some I wouldn't recommend

to an enemy. I was very, very lucky as a Navy wife to have the

same primary physician for 3 years (this almost never happens in the

military,

where you are lucky to have the same doctor 3 visits in a row!). This doctor

took an interest in my struggle to lose weight, and it was HIS idea to

research weight loss surgery, and his efforts on my behalf that got the Navy

to pay for it.

He also hooked me up with one of the premier WLS surgery teams, people who

don't just cut, they educate -- their proximal procedure may not be the best

for everyone, but they push protein both before and after surgery, tell us

what vitamins we will ALWAYS need, offer support groups and exercise classes

and generally follow up in ways that many of the surgeons out there don't

do. So I feel like I got lucky. I've also had good and bad insurance. I had

Tricare Prime, and it was great. Now I have Blue Cross, and it's worthless,

from the standpoint of what I have to pay for and what they will cover.

At any rate, I think Fay (and others) are right, we have to make it our

business to make sure the best things are done for us, and not blindly trust

but also not overly criticize folks who, like ourselves, are only human.

My 2¢, adjusted for current economy ~~ Lyn G

[Guest guest]

>>>>At any rate, I think Fay (and others) are right, we have to make it our

business to make sure the best things are done for us, and not blindly trust

but also not overly criticize folks who, like ourselves, are only human.

~~ Lyn G<<<<<<

If we aren't our own biggest advocate, who will be? Can we honestly expect any

ONE person to be the 100% full time advocate for 500+ patients? A physician

will look at every lab result to see if it is in the normal range, and if it is

not, make a note to have the patient called. But it is extremely unlikely that

s/he will be able to note whether a trend in each and every lab has begun to

occur within the normal range.

WE CAN THOUGH! [for example, if the normal range of substance X is 65-160, and

in Jan your value is 150; then in June it is 125; in Oct it is 90 and the next

Jan it is 70. Each of those values are " normal, " but by looking more closely

there is an obvious downward trend that could be caught in Oct, BEFORE a more

difficult time in correcting it occurs. It is very unlikely that the downward

trend would even be noticed with the January lab.] The health care provider

looks at hundreds of labs each week, into the thousands at times during the

busier winter months. Individual values are not looked up and compared with

previous ones. If WE bring it to the providers attention, then he or she will

most likely gladly act upon it, and be pleased that we have been an advocate in

our own corner. It helped them provide the best care for us. So, be your own

advocate. Make your own decisions, based on recommendations from your providers

and others as you see fit. Do your own research if you feel the need or have the

interest. But don't be complacent, or you will get lost in the system, and it is

your health care that will suffer.

doc carolyn - just my opinion, of course.

[Guest guest]

For 15 years (starting at the age of 13), my gp treated attacks of pain in my

abdominal area as " spastic colon " and lectured me after every flare-up that I

MUST have eaten one of the " forbidden foods " again. One day the pain came and

just never went away. As I lay in a hospital bed, 5 months pregnant with my

3rd child, in such pain that when a doc or nurse touched my shoulder, it hurt

me in my stomach and side, I felt I was literally at death's door. Could not

be x-rayed bcuz of the fetus, several blood tests a day always came back

negative. My gp kept telling me it must be " all in my head " bcuz they

couldn't find anything wrong with me. On the 6th nite in the hospital, I

called him at home at midnite and told him, when I turn over in bed, I can

feel something inside of me going " kerrr-plop. " And if I died, be it on his

head.

The next morning, the regular surgeon who'd been looking at me from time to

time was off and his assistant came in, touched me once in the side and I

flew about 10 inches in the air with pain. He disappeared and a nurse came in

a minute later with a surgical permission form for me to sign. They did an

exloratory and found a 10-pound tumor, the size of a football (my husband

verified this; they showed it to them) glommed onto my right ovary. They

couldn't get it off without removing the ovary as well.

The surgeon later came to visit me and told me I was " one lucky little girl. "

How so, I asked. Well, the tumor was full of gangrene, and the only thing

that kept the stuff from being released throughout my body and killing me was

the fact that the tumor was encased in a sac that had somehow gotten twisted

at the neck; and that sac was stretched to the absolute bursting point and

they had gotten to it and removed it just in time; literally could have been

minutes or seconds before it busted open. They had to be extremely careful

how they handled it.

My gp came to visit, smiling tentatively and sheepishly. " We're only human,

you know, we doctors. We can make mistakes. " Right, buddy. Yours almost cost

me my life. He had the nerve to bill me for the delivery of my daughter 4

months later, even though no one could find him in the hospital and she was

delivered by a resident instead. I was 28 years old. I never paid him. He

never dunned me for it. I guess he understood the message.

So there are good ones and idiot ones out there. The good one in this case

recognized there was SOME kind of a problem and saved my life. The idiot

seemed to have forgotten one of the big caveats of the profession: pain is

your body trying to tell you something is wrong. This was only my FIRST

encounter with a doc who was clueless or just didn't care enuf to go further.

Trust your own bodies, people, and your own good sense, and if you have ANY

feeling of being uncomfortable with a medical practitioner, keep going to

others till you find one that not only listens to you, but actually HEARS

what you have to say. It ain't easy, I know. And they can surely make you

feel like YOU'RE the idiot, a troublemaker, a hypochondriac, an unreasonable

crank, whatever. And having been socialized and cultured to always believe

that everything is always OUR OWN DAMNED FAULT, we are way too prone to

accept those judgments against us, esp when they come from people with

medical (or other) degrees. But it ain't ALWAYS our own fault. It's just too

bad that we have to keep fighting this fight all the time. By now, it should

be getting easier.

Carol A

-------------------------

In a message dated 11/15/02 6:54:05 AM Central Standard Time, watnext@...

writes:

<< In a message dated 11/15/2002 12:20:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,

sng@...

writes:

> So, we lose that

> absolute faith in our docs and even have to question them. Yes, in

> the very end, we have to decide for ourselves and not trust blindly

> in our health care professionals.

>

*****************************

Boy, do I agree with this one, Steve. However, I lost faith in the medical

profession many years ago as an obese woman whose weight was blamed for all

that ails her. Tunnel vision seems to be quite prevalent among doctors. It

really upsets me when I see people blindly trusting their health care

professionals, when so few really deserve our trust. But, by the same

token,

hopefully, the great majority of people on this list know how to read and

use

the information presented here. I, for one, find it invaluable. But, as

always, YMMV.

>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/15/02 7:20:34 AM Central Standard Time, fbayuk@...

writes:

<<

Buy thinking this way I have become more easy going and less critical.

Since

I know that people working for me are not perfect, I don't get all bent out

of shape when they make mistakes.

>>

-----------------------------

I applaud your wisdom and gentle consideration for others, Fay. But for me,

when a mistake is gonna cost me my life, or seriously reduce the quality of

that life, I find it a bit difficult to be so understanding and

accommodating. People in the health profession have a greater responsibility

to do right by their clients than the meter readers and billing clerks of the

world. When we don't hold them accountable, we do a great disservice to the

next person who depends on them. JMHO.

Carol A

[Guest guest]

You know, I think that many people are far more likely to hold those billing

clerks, etc. accountable for mistakes than they are their doctors. How many

of us would send our food back at a restaurant if it was wrong, or return an

outfit that didn't fit right, or complain about a rude salesclerk? On the

other hand, how many would get a second opinion from a doctor? So many

people see doctors as G-ds and trust them implicitly. We don't question

them, even if the medical " advice " doesn't make sense. For a lot of years I

went to a PCP who blamed everything on my weight. Everything. If I lost

weight, I'd apparently suddenly and miraculously be perfectly healthy I

guess. She even went as far as to say that I couldn't be a good mother to

my kids because I was so big. When I left her and went to another doctor

(the doctor who recommended WLS to me) in the same practice, she said that

it was because I didn't like hearing the truth (that I needed to lose

weight) and that I just wanted the easy answers. Well, those " easy answers "

have helped me lose 162 pounds! If I hadn't opened my eyes, I'd still be

MO.

------------------------------------------------

Terry Mayers

5DollarHosting.comR

http://www.5dollarhosting.com

(877)-838-HOST /

.... because it shouldn't cost a fortune to make a fortune! R

Re: Re: just my two cents worth -- health care

professional

I applaud your wisdom and gentle consideration for others, Fay. But for me,

when a mistake is gonna cost me my life, or seriously reduce the quality of

that life, I find it a bit difficult to be so understanding and

accommodating. People in the health profession have a greater responsibility

to do right by their clients than the meter readers and billing clerks of

the

world. When we don't hold them accountable, we do a great disservice to the

next person who depends on them. JMHO.

Carol A

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