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In a message dated 11/9/02 7:07:42 PM Central Standard Time, BethVBG@...

writes:

<< Similar to the idea

that CARBONATION (CO2) in beverages causes bone loss - not true - it is the

PHOSPHORIC acid in cola beverages that MAY be a culprit, >>

-----------------------------

I believe the culprit in coffee, tea, soda, etc is the

oxalates.............they contribute to kidney stones

Carol A

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You are so right , so many studies are done on healthy, young, white

males. Like that applies to most people anymore than rat studies apply.

(not suggesting that these males have anything in common with rats LOL) Fay

Bayuk

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> BethVBG@... writes:

> << Similar to the idea

> that CARBONATION (CO2) in beverages causes bone loss - not true

> - it is the

> PHOSPHORIC acid in cola beverages that MAY be a culprit, >>

> -----------------------------

Carol said:

> I believe the culprit in coffee, tea, soda, etc is the

> oxalates.............they contribute to kidney stones

-------------------------

~denise added...

I don't care particularly about what any of the studies say since none are

actually done just on the surgery population -- I do use the " negative

water " rule for myself just because it is a brown liquid = kidney stone

thing and because my hopes are to keep the coffee (that I love) washed

through my system as soon as possible -- so, regardless of what it may or

may not cause -- I just want it, it is a " vice " I'm not ready to give up

but I will wash it through as quickly as possible to (hopefully) avoid any

POSSIBLE side effects no matter what they may be or may not be... for me,

it feels like the " smart " thing to do for myself --

As with all the " urban myths " and " studies " and " statistics " -- until those

are all done ON post-ops they just don't apply *shrug*

Longer term post-op experienced people do apply in the been there / done

that / category...

hugz,

~denise

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> BethVBG@... writes:

> << Similar to the idea

> that CARBONATION (CO2) in beverages causes bone loss - not true

> - it is the

> PHOSPHORIC acid in cola beverages that MAY be a culprit, >>

> -----------------------------

Carol said:

> I believe the culprit in coffee, tea, soda, etc is the

> oxalates.............they contribute to kidney stones

-------------------------

~denise added...

I don't care particularly about what any of the studies say since none are

actually done just on the surgery population -- I do use the " negative

water " rule for myself just because it is a brown liquid = kidney stone

thing and because my hopes are to keep the coffee (that I love) washed

through my system as soon as possible -- so, regardless of what it may or

may not cause -- I just want it, it is a " vice " I'm not ready to give up

but I will wash it through as quickly as possible to (hopefully) avoid any

POSSIBLE side effects no matter what they may be or may not be... for me,

it feels like the " smart " thing to do for myself --

As with all the " urban myths " and " studies " and " statistics " -- until those

are all done ON post-ops they just don't apply *shrug*

Longer term post-op experienced people do apply in the been there / done

that / category...

hugz,

~denise

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Darlene: I truly believe that anything in excess has to be bad for you. I

have known people who have drunk as much coffee as you. It was not a pretty

sight, but they believed they were just fine. However, if coffee is your

drug of choice, it is definately the lesser of all evils. my 2 cents. Fay

Bayuk

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Darlene: I truly believe that anything in excess has to be bad for you. I

have known people who have drunk as much coffee as you. It was not a pretty

sight, but they believed they were just fine. However, if coffee is your

drug of choice, it is definately the lesser of all evils. my 2 cents. Fay

Bayuk

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I must say at this point that I don't understand the reasoning for the extra

water for coffee drinkers...I am a very heavy coffee drinker, have been

since a teenager.....I myself drink about 4 pots of coffe

myself...alone....at work and at home, I drink almost a full pot before

leaving for work, make about 3 pots at work and drink most of it myself as I

am there alone most of the time, my husband makes me a fresh pot before he

leaves for work, and I get home at 5:15 to a new pot, just for me......

I don't do calcium supplements except for a couple tums now and then when I

remember...yep, I said Tums....I've not had any kidney stones since

1972....my latest labs came back with my calcium up from when it was done in

January....so go figure...eh?

I too would like to see where it says that we have too drink extra water for

the amount of coffee we drink, or tea drunk......

Darlene (Central Calif)

Coffee Lover by birth I think

Message: 8

Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 04:43:32 EST

From: tuesdynite@...

Subject: Re: Water?

In a message dated 11/9/02 5:43:22 PM Central Standard Time,

rhooks@... writes:

<<

Although the majority says " No way, " they offer no reason not to. >>

------------------------------

Ray,

I think u do the truth-seekers a disservice with the rest of this post. The

article you listed is by just one person. One person does not a concensus

make. There are lots of other docs, including urologists, who would rebut

his

conclusions. Furthermore, you can't necessarily apply what's true for the

" normie " population to the WLS population. And the 25 years you spent

drinking soda were not years as a post-op, were they? If not, you can't

necessarily transfer your experience to " us. "

There are other reasons to avoid caffeine besides the issue of hydration and

whether or not it's a diuretic. It interferes with calcium absorption. It

contributes to the formation of kidney stones. " We " need all the calcium we

can get. We are more prone to stones than normies. Of course, it is each

person's own decision as to what they will eat and drink. But to put a stamp

of approval on something, as you've done, without pointing out other

potential problems, is just plain bad advice.

Carol A

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9

Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 04:46:12 EST

From: tuesdynite@...

Subject: Re: Water?

In a message dated 11/9/02 7:07:42 PM Central Standard Time, BethVBG@...

writes:

<< Similar to the idea

that CARBONATION (CO2) in beverages causes bone loss - not true - it is the

PHOSPHORIC acid in cola beverages that MAY be a culprit, >>

-----------------------------

I believe the culprit in coffee, tea, soda, etc is the

oxalates.............they contribute to kidney stones

Carol A

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002

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I must say at this point that I don't understand the reasoning for the extra

water for coffee drinkers...I am a very heavy coffee drinker, have been

since a teenager.....I myself drink about 4 pots of coffe

myself...alone....at work and at home, I drink almost a full pot before

leaving for work, make about 3 pots at work and drink most of it myself as I

am there alone most of the time, my husband makes me a fresh pot before he

leaves for work, and I get home at 5:15 to a new pot, just for me......

I don't do calcium supplements except for a couple tums now and then when I

remember...yep, I said Tums....I've not had any kidney stones since

1972....my latest labs came back with my calcium up from when it was done in

January....so go figure...eh?

I too would like to see where it says that we have too drink extra water for

the amount of coffee we drink, or tea drunk......

Darlene (Central Calif)

Coffee Lover by birth I think

Message: 8

Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 04:43:32 EST

From: tuesdynite@...

Subject: Re: Water?

In a message dated 11/9/02 5:43:22 PM Central Standard Time,

rhooks@... writes:

<<

Although the majority says " No way, " they offer no reason not to. >>

------------------------------

Ray,

I think u do the truth-seekers a disservice with the rest of this post. The

article you listed is by just one person. One person does not a concensus

make. There are lots of other docs, including urologists, who would rebut

his

conclusions. Furthermore, you can't necessarily apply what's true for the

" normie " population to the WLS population. And the 25 years you spent

drinking soda were not years as a post-op, were they? If not, you can't

necessarily transfer your experience to " us. "

There are other reasons to avoid caffeine besides the issue of hydration and

whether or not it's a diuretic. It interferes with calcium absorption. It

contributes to the formation of kidney stones. " We " need all the calcium we

can get. We are more prone to stones than normies. Of course, it is each

person's own decision as to what they will eat and drink. But to put a stamp

of approval on something, as you've done, without pointing out other

potential problems, is just plain bad advice.

Carol A

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9

Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 04:46:12 EST

From: tuesdynite@...

Subject: Re: Water?

In a message dated 11/9/02 7:07:42 PM Central Standard Time, BethVBG@...

writes:

<< Similar to the idea

that CARBONATION (CO2) in beverages causes bone loss - not true - it is the

PHOSPHORIC acid in cola beverages that MAY be a culprit, >>

-----------------------------

I believe the culprit in coffee, tea, soda, etc is the

oxalates.............they contribute to kidney stones

Carol A

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.417 / Virus Database: 233 - Release Date: 11/8/2002

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> > I don't do calcium supplements except for a couple tums now and

then when I

> remember...yep, I said Tums....I've not had any kidney stones since

> 1972....my latest labs came back with my calcium up from when it

was done in

> January....so go figure...eh?

******************************

Darlene, I'm sure you'll hear this from others, but the calcium

levels in our labwork are virtually meaningless. You must have a

dexascan to really test for bone loss. Please go have one, it's

totally painless, and many insurance companies now cover it.

As for the coffee issue, I, too, love my coffee, but I'm down to just

2-3 cups in the morning now, and that's only because when I hit about

35 years old, I realized drinking the high test after about 1 PM

caused me to not be able to sleep. I'm also a die-hard NON-water

drinker, so if coffee counts for fluid intake, I'm a happy camper.

in NJ

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In a message dated 11/10/02 11:35:40 AM Central Standard Time,

PetalCA@... writes:

<< I don't do calcium supplements except for a couple tums now and then when I

remember...yep, I said Tums....I've not had any kidney stones since

1972....my latest labs came back with my calcium up from when it was done in

January....so go figure...eh? >>

----------------------------

Just goes to show that everybody's different, as I keep hearing on these

lists. Consider yourself amazingly lucky. How long ago did you have your

surgery?

Carol A

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I'm so glad Don & I could have hose oxalate stones for you! LOL! ALMOST

makes it worthwhile. LOL!

> Longer term post-op experienced people do apply in the been there / done

> that / category...

>

> hugz,

> ~denise

>

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From: Vitalady

> I'm so glad Don & I could have hose oxalate stones for you! LOL! ALMOST

> makes it worthwhile. LOL!

>

----------

> > Longer term post-op experienced people do apply in the been there / done

> > that / category...

> > hugz,

> > ~denise

-----------

And I thank you both dearly as well as all the stoned people who've

described in detail the pain associated with those nasty things --

OUCH...~~!!!!!!!

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