Religion and stem cell research

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

This is interesting from a standpoint that Christians always seem to

support banning stem cell research by using Old Testament scriptures.

It seems to me that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew )

Personally, I think the Catholic statement of " take on the role of God

and reduce humans to mere spare parts. " , is rather silly in light of

blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants and organ transplants NOW.

Will they ever learn that the only " spare parts " are cells so small you

can not see them without extreme magnification.

But then too, bin Laden is against stem cell research also.

Take care, Bill Werre

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020313/hl_nm/cloning_religio\

n_1016043752

US Orthodox Jewish Groups OK Cloning

for Research

Wed Mar 13, 1:22 PM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Two of the nation's

largest Orthodox

Jewish groups on Tuesday broke with

conservatives from the Christian

right in supporting the use of cloned embryos

for medical research.

In a joint statement, the Union of Orthodox

Jewish Congregations of

America and the Rabbinical Council of America

said, " We must be

careful to distinguish between cloning for

therapeutic purposes--which

ought to be pursued, and cloning for

reproductive purposes--which we

oppose. "

The use of cloned embryos for stem cell

research, which has the

potential to treat or cure a host of diseases,

has been hotly debated in

the US over the past year. While the Bush

administration is backing a

Senate bill authorizing a total ban on all human

cloning, another bill

sponsored by Senators Diane Feinstein (D-CA) and

Arlen Specter

(R-PA) would allow the cloning of embryos for

stem cell research but

prohibit reproductive cloning.

Speaking with the Washington Post, Orthodox

Union Director of Public

Policy Diament said the joint statement

" will help people to

understand that there is a religiously informed,

moral basis for supporting

this research that is at least as strong as the

religiously informed, moral

basis for opposing it. "

The statement marks a break in the ranks of

religious conservatives on

the issue. Many Catholic and Protestant groups

remain steadfast in their

opposition to all forms of human cloning.

Speaking for the Catholic

Church, Washington's Cardinal Theodore McCarrick

told the Post that

the use of cloned embryos for stem cell research

may lead scientists to

" take on the role of God and reduce humans to

mere spare parts. "

[Guest guest]

Bill,

I am Catholic and all for stem cell research, and, would be as one trained

in the sciences and happens to be a Catholic. Some Catholic must have gotten

you upset in the past.

To the point, you wrote: " Personally, I think the Catholic statement of

" take on the role of God

> and reduce humans to mere spare parts. " , is rather silly in light of

> blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants and organ transplants NOW.

> Will they ever learn that the only " spare parts " are cells so small you

> can not see them without extreme magnification. "

One difference in the processes you site and stem cells, your examples are

somatic cells not germ cells destined to unite to form a zygote which

hopefully develops into a normal healthy human. Sure one can take cells from

many parts of the body and clone them. But what those that clone are doing

is taking LIVING tissue to reach what ever results they want They have not

created life from nothing. Man will never produce life from a few organic

chains. Evolution is still a theory with some big problems. Life is still

produced by that miracle called pregnancy and birth. I can easily see why

some people are against using the stem cells, and they have the right to

their opinion as you do.

I guarantee there are still people who think they can produce life, maybe

even a super race of individuals. The objection the Catholic church is

making is that, for hundreds or a couple thousand years they have believed

an individual receives his or her soul at conception, not at birth.

The debate over using stem cells is good. It means there exists a perpetual

over sight committee as long as the debate lasts. Scientist should be

monitored, most are very honorable individuals, but there is also those that

think that in the name of science, any thing is permissible.

I am sorry for the length of this email, but this issue is very complicated,

and needs constant scrutiny.

God Bless,

Judy & Jim Stark

To

Religion and stem cell research

> Hi all,

>

> This is interesting from a standpoint that Christians always seem to

> support banning stem cell research by using Old Testament scriptures.

> It seems to me that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew )

> Personally, I think the Catholic statement of " take on the role of God

> and reduce humans to mere spare parts. " , is rather silly in light of

> blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants and organ transplants NOW.

> Will they ever learn that the only " spare parts " are cells so small you

> can not see them without extreme magnification.

>

> But then too, bin Laden is against stem cell research also.

>

> Take care, Bill Werre

>

>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020313/hl_nm/cloning_rel

igion_1016043752

>

> US Orthodox Jewish Groups OK Cloning

> for Research

> Wed Mar 13, 1:22 PM ET

>

> NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Two of the nation's

> largest Orthodox

> Jewish groups on Tuesday broke with

> conservatives from the Christian

> right in supporting the use of cloned embryos

> for medical research.

>

> In a joint statement, the Union of Orthodox

> Jewish Congregations of

> America and the Rabbinical Council of America

> said, " We must be

> careful to distinguish between cloning for

> therapeutic purposes--which

> ought to be pursued, and cloning for

> reproductive purposes--which we

> oppose. "

>

> The use of cloned embryos for stem cell

> research, which has the

> potential to treat or cure a host of diseases,

> has been hotly debated in

> the US over the past year. While the Bush

> administration is backing a

> Senate bill authorizing a total ban on all human

> cloning, another bill

> sponsored by Senators Diane Feinstein (D-CA) and

> Arlen Specter

> (R-PA) would allow the cloning of embryos for

> stem cell research but

> prohibit reproductive cloning.

>

> Speaking with the Washington Post, Orthodox

> Union Director of Public

> Policy Diament said the joint statement

> " will help people to

> understand that there is a religiously informed,

> moral basis for supporting

> this research that is at least as strong as the

> religiously informed, moral

> basis for opposing it. "

>

> The statement marks a break in the ranks of

> religious conservatives on

> the issue. Many Catholic and Protestant groups

> remain steadfast in their

> opposition to all forms of human cloning.

> Speaking for the Catholic

> Church, Washington's Cardinal Theodore McCarrick

> told the Post that

> the use of cloned embryos for stem cell research

> may lead scientists to

> " take on the role of God and reduce humans to

> mere spare parts. "

>

>

> If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may

> unsubscribe by sending a blank email to

>

> shydrager-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jim,

Sorry if you took it that I was critizing the Church itself, I an only critizing

the Cardinal (a Man) for using an illogical argument against the Jews who

supported stem cell research.

Actually, you just made a point against some of the latest Catholic priests

speaking against stem cell research. They are saying that adult stem cells can

produce any cell and therefore should be used for research, however, if they

can produce any cell, that would make them the same as pluripotent stem cells.

I do agree with you on this statement " but this issue is very complicated, and

needs constant scrutiny. " But many religions believe that stem cell research is

okay and the law of this land is that one religion should not be set above

another, which Bush's proclamation does. Why should your religion be set above

mine or the Jews? Remember that only 20 years ago the Catholics were arguing

that fetal tissue transplant was wrong " because it would cause more abortions " .

The total fetal tissue transplant research used less than 1000 fetuses all of

which were donated by families where the fetus had no chance of survival (i.e.

the mother was killed in an auto accident before the fetus was 6 weeks old).

Yet those were adult cells by the standards of today. It did not cause more

abortions and it was not pluripotent stem cells, so why was it wrong?

Now according to your church leaders, there are 1.5 million abortions per year

is the USA alone (30 million fetuses over 20 years). My question is how did the

research cause " more " abortions? I am not saying the church is right or wrong,

I am saying that they do not have the right to stop me from believing my way in

the USA and they certainly do not have the right to stop the research with more

than half of the people in the USA believing that stem cell research should go

ahead. You have the right to believe exactly what you want to believe, I am all

for that, just do not tell me what I believe is wrong.

I was referring to the term " body parts " as foolish, do you actually consider

stem cells " body parts " ? If you go onto the Catholic anti-abortion sites, they

show arms, legs, etc as examples of " the slaughter of babies for body parts " and

then go into diatribes on stem cell research. Is that being truthful? Sorry,

but to me that is false advertising. Any fight on ethics should be truthful,

but then that is only MY opinion, I thought my body was a temple of God and that

God wanted me to think. I know many Catholics (without brain disorders) who

think stem cell research should go ahead. I also know Catholics who use birth

control, is that a sin?

It is my understanding (I could be wrong or my sources could be wrong) that the

Roman Catholic Church only adopted the stance that the baby was a human at

conception at conception less than 200 years ago and before that it was the same

as Jews believe. Then too the question becomes " can conception take place in a

test tube OR only when the blastocyst is placed in a womb? " The blastocyst

(this has been proven) can not become a human without being placed in a womb.

Therefore is it truly conception without a womb?

This issue is very complicated, and unfortunately people are dying of brain

disorders every day. " Thou shalt not kill " - does that mean witholding a blood

transfusion from a dying child is " killing " ? How about witholding antibiotics?

Seems to me the USA is putting people in jail for manslaughter, who believe that

using those items is a sin (Jehovah's Witness and Christian Scientist).

Morality is in the eye of the beholder. Who is wrong???

Scientists (at least most of them) do not want to clone humans for body parts or

perfect humans, only for living cells to cure people with brain disorders. It

looks as if the other " body parts " such as heart tissue can be grown from adult

stem cells - so why isn't the Church against cloning heart " body parts " from

adult stem cells???? Ethics do not change from situation to situation.

Finally, why doesn't the Roman Catholic Church have funerals for the dead

blastocysts? They were human beings with a soul according to the Church, so

isn't it entitled to a funeral? Note - it is not only the Roman Catholic Church

condemning stem cell research, actually bin Laden also condemns it as " killing "

also.

When Luther nailed his 95 questions to the door of a church almost 500 years

ago, he did not want to critize the church itself, only the leaders. One of the

questions was " does the Pope have the right to sell forgiveness of sins "

(indulgences)? I do believe that the Roman Catholic Church does not sell

forgiveness of sins today and that Lutherans and Catholics sometimes celebrate

Holy Communion together these days. I am not attacking the Church itself only a

few MEN who are setting the " rules " . Until the Pope's proclamation that stem

cell research was bad, there were Roman Catholic websites saying stem cell

research was good and supported by theologians in the Church. They have since

disappeared at a time that we need good honest theological debate, just as in

the 1520's.

You and I both know that men are human and not God, therefore it is possible for

them to be wrong. Because men (even priests and Cardinals) do wrong things does

not mean that the Church as a whole is wrong. The Church is millions of people

who all are human and do wrong things but collectively they do more right than

wrong hopefully. Sorry, but those are my reasons for believing the Cardinal is

wrong in calling stem cells " body parts " .

Take care, Bill

[Guest guest]

Jim,

Sorry if you took it that I was critizing the Church itself, I an only critizing

the Cardinal (a Man) for using an illogical argument against the Jews who

supported stem cell research.

Actually, you just made a point against some of the latest Catholic priests

speaking against stem cell research. They are saying that adult stem cells can

produce any cell and therefore should be used for research, however, if they

can produce any cell, that would make them the same as pluripotent stem cells.

I do agree with you on this statement " but this issue is very complicated, and

needs constant scrutiny. " But many religions believe that stem cell research is

okay and the law of this land is that one religion should not be set above

another, which Bush's proclamation does. Why should your religion be set above

mine or the Jews? Remember that only 20 years ago the Catholics were arguing

that fetal tissue transplant was wrong " because it would cause more abortions " .

The total fetal tissue transplant research used less than 1000 fetuses all of

which were donated by families where the fetus had no chance of survival (i.e.

the mother was killed in an auto accident before the fetus was 6 weeks old).

Yet those were adult cells by the standards of today. It did not cause more

abortions and it was not pluripotent stem cells, so why was it wrong?

Now according to your church leaders, there are 1.5 million abortions per year

is the USA alone (30 million fetuses over 20 years). My question is how did the

research cause " more " abortions? I am not saying the church is right or wrong,

I am saying that they do not have the right to stop me from believing my way in

the USA and they certainly do not have the right to stop the research with more

than half of the people in the USA believing that stem cell research should go

ahead. You have the right to believe exactly what you want to believe, I am all

for that, just do not tell me what I believe is wrong.

I was referring to the term " body parts " as foolish, do you actually consider

stem cells " body parts " ? If you go onto the Catholic anti-abortion sites, they

show arms, legs, etc as examples of " the slaughter of babies for body parts " and

then go into diatribes on stem cell research. Is that being truthful? Sorry,

but to me that is false advertising. Any fight on ethics should be truthful,

but then that is only MY opinion, I thought my body was a temple of God and that

God wanted me to think. I know many Catholics (without brain disorders) who

think stem cell research should go ahead. I also know Catholics who use birth

control, is that a sin?

It is my understanding (I could be wrong or my sources could be wrong) that the

Roman Catholic Church only adopted the stance that the baby was a human at

conception at conception less than 200 years ago and before that it was the same

as Jews believe. Then too the question becomes " can conception take place in a

test tube OR only when the blastocyst is placed in a womb? " The blastocyst

(this has been proven) can not become a human without being placed in a womb.

Therefore is it truly conception without a womb?

This issue is very complicated, and unfortunately people are dying of brain

disorders every day. " Thou shalt not kill " - does that mean witholding a blood

transfusion from a dying child is " killing " ? How about witholding antibiotics?

Seems to me the USA is putting people in jail for manslaughter, who believe that

using those items is a sin (Jehovah's Witness and Christian Scientist).

Morality is in the eye of the beholder. Who is wrong???

Scientists (at least most of them) do not want to clone humans for body parts or

perfect humans, only for living cells to cure people with brain disorders. It

looks as if the other " body parts " such as heart tissue can be grown from adult

stem cells - so why isn't the Church against cloning heart " body parts " from

adult stem cells???? Ethics do not change from situation to situation.

Finally, why doesn't the Roman Catholic Church have funerals for the dead

blastocysts? They were human beings with a soul according to the Church, so

isn't it entitled to a funeral? Note - it is not only the Roman Catholic Church

condemning stem cell research, actually bin Laden also condemns it as " killing "

also.

When Luther nailed his 95 questions to the door of a church almost 500 years

ago, he did not want to critize the church itself, only the leaders. One of the

questions was " does the Pope have the right to sell forgiveness of sins "

(indulgences)? I do believe that the Roman Catholic Church does not sell

forgiveness of sins today and that Lutherans and Catholics sometimes celebrate

Holy Communion together these days. I am not attacking the Church itself only a

few MEN who are setting the " rules " . Until the Pope's proclamation that stem

cell research was bad, there were Roman Catholic websites saying stem cell

research was good and supported by theologians in the Church. They have since

disappeared at a time that we need good honest theological debate, just as in

the 1520's.

You and I both know that men are human and not God, therefore it is possible for

them to be wrong. Because men (even priests and Cardinals) do wrong things does

not mean that the Church as a whole is wrong. The Church is millions of people

who all are human and do wrong things but collectively they do more right than

wrong hopefully. Sorry, but those are my reasons for believing the Cardinal is

wrong in calling stem cells " body parts " .

Take care, Bill

[Guest guest]

Jim,

Sorry if you took it that I was critizing the Church itself, I an only critizing

the Cardinal (a Man) for using an illogical argument against the Jews who

supported stem cell research.

Actually, you just made a point against some of the latest Catholic priests

speaking against stem cell research. They are saying that adult stem cells can

produce any cell and therefore should be used for research, however, if they

can produce any cell, that would make them the same as pluripotent stem cells.

I do agree with you on this statement " but this issue is very complicated, and

needs constant scrutiny. " But many religions believe that stem cell research is

okay and the law of this land is that one religion should not be set above

another, which Bush's proclamation does. Why should your religion be set above

mine or the Jews? Remember that only 20 years ago the Catholics were arguing

that fetal tissue transplant was wrong " because it would cause more abortions " .

The total fetal tissue transplant research used less than 1000 fetuses all of

which were donated by families where the fetus had no chance of survival (i.e.

the mother was killed in an auto accident before the fetus was 6 weeks old).

Yet those were adult cells by the standards of today. It did not cause more

abortions and it was not pluripotent stem cells, so why was it wrong?

Now according to your church leaders, there are 1.5 million abortions per year

is the USA alone (30 million fetuses over 20 years). My question is how did the

research cause " more " abortions? I am not saying the church is right or wrong,

I am saying that they do not have the right to stop me from believing my way in

the USA and they certainly do not have the right to stop the research with more

than half of the people in the USA believing that stem cell research should go

ahead. You have the right to believe exactly what you want to believe, I am all

for that, just do not tell me what I believe is wrong.

I was referring to the term " body parts " as foolish, do you actually consider

stem cells " body parts " ? If you go onto the Catholic anti-abortion sites, they

show arms, legs, etc as examples of " the slaughter of babies for body parts " and

then go into diatribes on stem cell research. Is that being truthful? Sorry,

but to me that is false advertising. Any fight on ethics should be truthful,

but then that is only MY opinion, I thought my body was a temple of God and that

God wanted me to think. I know many Catholics (without brain disorders) who

think stem cell research should go ahead. I also know Catholics who use birth

control, is that a sin?

It is my understanding (I could be wrong or my sources could be wrong) that the

Roman Catholic Church only adopted the stance that the baby was a human at

conception at conception less than 200 years ago and before that it was the same

as Jews believe. Then too the question becomes " can conception take place in a

test tube OR only when the blastocyst is placed in a womb? " The blastocyst

(this has been proven) can not become a human without being placed in a womb.

Therefore is it truly conception without a womb?

This issue is very complicated, and unfortunately people are dying of brain

disorders every day. " Thou shalt not kill " - does that mean witholding a blood

transfusion from a dying child is " killing " ? How about witholding antibiotics?

Seems to me the USA is putting people in jail for manslaughter, who believe that

using those items is a sin (Jehovah's Witness and Christian Scientist).

Morality is in the eye of the beholder. Who is wrong???

Scientists (at least most of them) do not want to clone humans for body parts or

perfect humans, only for living cells to cure people with brain disorders. It

looks as if the other " body parts " such as heart tissue can be grown from adult

stem cells - so why isn't the Church against cloning heart " body parts " from

adult stem cells???? Ethics do not change from situation to situation.

Finally, why doesn't the Roman Catholic Church have funerals for the dead

blastocysts? They were human beings with a soul according to the Church, so

isn't it entitled to a funeral? Note - it is not only the Roman Catholic Church

condemning stem cell research, actually bin Laden also condemns it as " killing "

also.

When Luther nailed his 95 questions to the door of a church almost 500 years

ago, he did not want to critize the church itself, only the leaders. One of the

questions was " does the Pope have the right to sell forgiveness of sins "

(indulgences)? I do believe that the Roman Catholic Church does not sell

forgiveness of sins today and that Lutherans and Catholics sometimes celebrate

Holy Communion together these days. I am not attacking the Church itself only a

few MEN who are setting the " rules " . Until the Pope's proclamation that stem

cell research was bad, there were Roman Catholic websites saying stem cell

research was good and supported by theologians in the Church. They have since

disappeared at a time that we need good honest theological debate, just as in

the 1520's.

You and I both know that men are human and not God, therefore it is possible for

them to be wrong. Because men (even priests and Cardinals) do wrong things does

not mean that the Church as a whole is wrong. The Church is millions of people

who all are human and do wrong things but collectively they do more right than

wrong hopefully. Sorry, but those are my reasons for believing the Cardinal is

wrong in calling stem cells " body parts " .

Take care, Bill

[Guest guest]

I was forty three before it was made clear to me that somehow

Catholics are not Christians, still can't get over that one (I thought

we were the original Christians). On thing the Catholic church has

never been against is thinking, some of the greates dissedents (St.

FRancis, par example), are now saints. The Vatican may have held some

art from public view, but did not destroy it. They did not assasinate

or execute Galileo, but put him (free to think and write) under house

arrest. Mendel was a friar. Cocaine was once a food additive (good

thing the thinking moved us forward). Neither God nor Christ were

ever against change, God invented it and Christ promoted a change in

social consciousness. I appreciate the church's thoughts as much as

anyone else's, but I have my own brain, which is ok if you're

Catholic, we are not excommunicated for thought.

" Personally, I think the Catholic statement

of

> " take on the role of God

> > and reduce humans to mere spare parts. " , is rather silly in light

of

> > blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants and organ transplants

NOW.

> > Will they ever learn that the only " spare parts " are cells so

small you

> > can not see them without extreme magnification. "

>

> One difference in the processes you site and stem cells, your

examples are

> somatic cells not germ cells destined to unite to form a zygote

which

> hopefully develops into a normal healthy human. Sure one can take

cells from

> many parts of the body and clone them. But what those that clone

are doing

> is taking LIVING tissue to reach what ever results they want They

have not

> created life from nothing. Man will never produce life from a few

organic

> chains. Evolution is still a theory with some big problems. Life is

still

> produced by that miracle called pregnancy and birth. I can easily

see why

> some people are against using the stem cells, and they have the

right to

> their opinion as you do.

>

> I guarantee there are still people who think they can produce life,

maybe

> even a super race of individuals. The objection the Catholic church

is

> making is that, for hundreds or a couple thousand years they have

believed

> an individual receives his or her soul at conception, not at birth.

>

> The debate over using stem cells is good. It means there exists a

perpetual

> over sight committee as long as the debate lasts. Scientist should

be

> monitored, most are very honorable individuals, but there is also

those that

> think that in the name of science, any thing is permissible.

>

> I am sorry for the length of this email, but this issue is very

complicated,

> and needs constant scrutiny.

>

> God Bless,

> Judy & Jim Stark

>

>

>

> To

> Religion and stem cell research

>

>

> > Hi all,

> >

> > This is interesting from a standpoint that Christians always seem

to

> > support banning stem cell research by using Old Testament

scriptures.

> > It seems to me that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew )

> > Personally, I think the Catholic statement of " take on the role

of God

> > and reduce humans to mere spare parts. " , is rather silly in light

of

> > blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants and organ transplants

NOW.

> > Will they ever learn that the only " spare parts " are cells so

small you

> > can not see them without extreme magnification.

> >

> > But then too, bin Laden is against stem cell research also.

> >

> > Take care, Bill Werre

> >

> >

>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020313/hl_nm/cloni

ng_rel

> igion_1016043752

> >

> > US Orthodox Jewish Groups OK Cloning

> > for Research

> > Wed Mar 13, 1:22 PM ET

> >

> > NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Two of the

nation's

> > largest Orthodox

> > Jewish groups on Tuesday broke with

> > conservatives from the Christian

> > right in supporting the use of cloned

embryos

> > for medical research.

> >

> > In a joint statement, the Union of

Orthodox

> > Jewish Congregations of

> > America and the Rabbinical Council of

America

> > said, " We must be

> > careful to distinguish between cloning for

> > therapeutic purposes--which

> > ought to be pursued, and cloning for

> > reproductive purposes--which we

> > oppose. "

> >

> > The use of cloned embryos for stem cell

> > research, which has the

> > potential to treat or cure a host of

diseases,

> > has been hotly debated in

> > the US over the past year. While the Bush

> > administration is backing a

> > Senate bill authorizing a total ban on all

human

> > cloning, another bill

> > sponsored by Senators Diane Feinstein

(D-CA) and

> > Arlen Specter

> > (R-PA) would allow the cloning of embryos

for

> > stem cell research but

> > prohibit reproductive cloning.

> >

> > Speaking with the Washington Post,

Orthodox

> > Union Director of Public

> > Policy Diament said the joint

statement

> > " will help people to

> > understand that there is a religiously

informed,

> > moral basis for supporting

> > this research that is at least as strong

as the

> > religiously informed, moral

> > basis for opposing it. "

> >

> > The statement marks a break in the ranks

of

> > religious conservatives on

> > the issue. Many Catholic and Protestant

groups

> > remain steadfast in their

> > opposition to all forms of human cloning.

> > Speaking for the Catholic

> > Church, Washington's Cardinal Theodore

McCarrick

> > told the Post that

> > the use of cloned embryos for stem cell

research

> > may lead scientists to

> > " take on the role of God and reduce humans

to

> > mere spare parts. "

> >

> >

> > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may

> > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to

> >

> > shydrager-unsubscribe@y...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I was forty three before it was made clear to me that somehow

Catholics are not Christians, still can't get over that one (I thought

we were the original Christians). On thing the Catholic church has

never been against is thinking, some of the greates dissedents (St.

FRancis, par example), are now saints. The Vatican may have held some

art from public view, but did not destroy it. They did not assasinate

or execute Galileo, but put him (free to think and write) under house

arrest. Mendel was a friar. Cocaine was once a food additive (good

thing the thinking moved us forward). Neither God nor Christ were

ever against change, God invented it and Christ promoted a change in

social consciousness. I appreciate the church's thoughts as much as

anyone else's, but I have my own brain, which is ok if you're

Catholic, we are not excommunicated for thought.

" Personally, I think the Catholic statement

of

> " take on the role of God

> > and reduce humans to mere spare parts. " , is rather silly in light

of

> > blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants and organ transplants

NOW.

> > Will they ever learn that the only " spare parts " are cells so

small you

> > can not see them without extreme magnification. "

>

> One difference in the processes you site and stem cells, your

examples are

> somatic cells not germ cells destined to unite to form a zygote

which

> hopefully develops into a normal healthy human. Sure one can take

cells from

> many parts of the body and clone them. But what those that clone

are doing

> is taking LIVING tissue to reach what ever results they want They

have not

> created life from nothing. Man will never produce life from a few

organic

> chains. Evolution is still a theory with some big problems. Life is

still

> produced by that miracle called pregnancy and birth. I can easily

see why

> some people are against using the stem cells, and they have the

right to

> their opinion as you do.

>

> I guarantee there are still people who think they can produce life,

maybe

> even a super race of individuals. The objection the Catholic church

is

> making is that, for hundreds or a couple thousand years they have

believed

> an individual receives his or her soul at conception, not at birth.

>

> The debate over using stem cells is good. It means there exists a

perpetual

> over sight committee as long as the debate lasts. Scientist should

be

> monitored, most are very honorable individuals, but there is also

those that

> think that in the name of science, any thing is permissible.

>

> I am sorry for the length of this email, but this issue is very

complicated,

> and needs constant scrutiny.

>

> God Bless,

> Judy & Jim Stark

>

>

>

> To

> Religion and stem cell research

>

>

> > Hi all,

> >

> > This is interesting from a standpoint that Christians always seem

to

> > support banning stem cell research by using Old Testament

scriptures.

> > It seems to me that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew )

> > Personally, I think the Catholic statement of " take on the role

of God

> > and reduce humans to mere spare parts. " , is rather silly in light

of

> > blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants and organ transplants

NOW.

> > Will they ever learn that the only " spare parts " are cells so

small you

> > can not see them without extreme magnification.

> >

> > But then too, bin Laden is against stem cell research also.

> >

> > Take care, Bill Werre

> >

> >

>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020313/hl_nm/cloni

ng_rel

> igion_1016043752

> >

> > US Orthodox Jewish Groups OK Cloning

> > for Research

> > Wed Mar 13, 1:22 PM ET

> >

> > NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Two of the

nation's

> > largest Orthodox

> > Jewish groups on Tuesday broke with

> > conservatives from the Christian

> > right in supporting the use of cloned

embryos

> > for medical research.

> >

> > In a joint statement, the Union of

Orthodox

> > Jewish Congregations of

> > America and the Rabbinical Council of

America

> > said, " We must be

> > careful to distinguish between cloning for

> > therapeutic purposes--which

> > ought to be pursued, and cloning for

> > reproductive purposes--which we

> > oppose. "

> >

> > The use of cloned embryos for stem cell

> > research, which has the

> > potential to treat or cure a host of

diseases,

> > has been hotly debated in

> > the US over the past year. While the Bush

> > administration is backing a

> > Senate bill authorizing a total ban on all

human

> > cloning, another bill

> > sponsored by Senators Diane Feinstein

(D-CA) and

> > Arlen Specter

> > (R-PA) would allow the cloning of embryos

for

> > stem cell research but

> > prohibit reproductive cloning.

> >

> > Speaking with the Washington Post,

Orthodox

> > Union Director of Public

> > Policy Diament said the joint

statement

> > " will help people to

> > understand that there is a religiously

informed,

> > moral basis for supporting

> > this research that is at least as strong

as the

> > religiously informed, moral

> > basis for opposing it. "

> >

> > The statement marks a break in the ranks

of

> > religious conservatives on

> > the issue. Many Catholic and Protestant

groups

> > remain steadfast in their

> > opposition to all forms of human cloning.

> > Speaking for the Catholic

> > Church, Washington's Cardinal Theodore

McCarrick

> > told the Post that

> > the use of cloned embryos for stem cell

research

> > may lead scientists to

> > " take on the role of God and reduce humans

to

> > mere spare parts. "

> >

> >

> > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may

> > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to

> >

> > shydrager-unsubscribe@y...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Mesaletta,

Well said. Write more often.

God Bless,

Judy & Jim Stark

Religion and stem cell research

> >

> >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > This is interesting from a standpoint that Christians always seem

> to

> > > support banning stem cell research by using Old Testament

> scriptures.

> > > It seems to me that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew )

> > > Personally, I think the Catholic statement of " take on the role

> of God

> > > and reduce humans to mere spare parts. " , is rather silly in light

> of

> > > blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants and organ transplants

> NOW.

> > > Will they ever learn that the only " spare parts " are cells so

> small you

> > > can not see them without extreme magnification.

> > >

> > > But then too, bin Laden is against stem cell research also.

> > >

> > > Take care, Bill Werre

> > >

> > >

> >

> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020313/hl_nm/cloni

> ng_rel

> > igion_1016043752

> > >

> > > US Orthodox Jewish Groups OK Cloning

> > > for Research

> > > Wed Mar 13, 1:22 PM ET

> > >

> > > NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Two of the

> nation's

> > > largest Orthodox

> > > Jewish groups on Tuesday broke with

> > > conservatives from the Christian

> > > right in supporting the use of cloned

> embryos

> > > for medical research.

> > >

> > > In a joint statement, the Union of

> Orthodox

> > > Jewish Congregations of

> > > America and the Rabbinical Council of

> America

> > > said, " We must be

> > > careful to distinguish between cloning for

> > > therapeutic purposes--which

> > > ought to be pursued, and cloning for

> > > reproductive purposes--which we

> > > oppose. "

> > >

> > > The use of cloned embryos for stem cell

> > > research, which has the

> > > potential to treat or cure a host of

> diseases,

> > > has been hotly debated in

> > > the US over the past year. While the Bush

> > > administration is backing a

> > > Senate bill authorizing a total ban on all

> human

> > > cloning, another bill

> > > sponsored by Senators Diane Feinstein

> (D-CA) and

> > > Arlen Specter

> > > (R-PA) would allow the cloning of embryos

> for

> > > stem cell research but

> > > prohibit reproductive cloning.

> > >

> > > Speaking with the Washington Post,

> Orthodox

> > > Union Director of Public

> > > Policy Diament said the joint

> statement

> > > " will help people to

> > > understand that there is a religiously

> informed,

> > > moral basis for supporting

> > > this research that is at least as strong

> as the

> > > religiously informed, moral

> > > basis for opposing it. "

> > >

> > > The statement marks a break in the ranks

> of

> > > religious conservatives on

> > > the issue. Many Catholic and Protestant

> groups

> > > remain steadfast in their

> > > opposition to all forms of human cloning.

> > > Speaking for the Catholic

> > > Church, Washington's Cardinal Theodore

> McCarrick

> > > told the Post that

> > > the use of cloned embryos for stem cell

> research

> > > may lead scientists to

> > > " take on the role of God and reduce humans

> to

> > > mere spare parts. "

> > >

> > >

> > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may

> > > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to

> > >

> > > shydrager-unsubscribe@y...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Mesaletta,

Well said. Write more often.

God Bless,

Judy & Jim Stark

Religion and stem cell research

> >

> >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > This is interesting from a standpoint that Christians always seem

> to

> > > support banning stem cell research by using Old Testament

> scriptures.

> > > It seems to me that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew )

> > > Personally, I think the Catholic statement of " take on the role

> of God

> > > and reduce humans to mere spare parts. " , is rather silly in light

> of

> > > blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants and organ transplants

> NOW.

> > > Will they ever learn that the only " spare parts " are cells so

> small you

> > > can not see them without extreme magnification.

> > >

> > > But then too, bin Laden is against stem cell research also.

> > >

> > > Take care, Bill Werre

> > >

> > >

> >

> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020313/hl_nm/cloni

> ng_rel

> > igion_1016043752

> > >

> > > US Orthodox Jewish Groups OK Cloning

> > > for Research

> > > Wed Mar 13, 1:22 PM ET

> > >

> > > NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Two of the

> nation's

> > > largest Orthodox

> > > Jewish groups on Tuesday broke with

> > > conservatives from the Christian

> > > right in supporting the use of cloned

> embryos

> > > for medical research.

> > >

> > > In a joint statement, the Union of

> Orthodox

> > > Jewish Congregations of

> > > America and the Rabbinical Council of

> America

> > > said, " We must be

> > > careful to distinguish between cloning for

> > > therapeutic purposes--which

> > > ought to be pursued, and cloning for

> > > reproductive purposes--which we

> > > oppose. "

> > >

> > > The use of cloned embryos for stem cell

> > > research, which has the

> > > potential to treat or cure a host of

> diseases,

> > > has been hotly debated in

> > > the US over the past year. While the Bush

> > > administration is backing a

> > > Senate bill authorizing a total ban on all

> human

> > > cloning, another bill

> > > sponsored by Senators Diane Feinstein

> (D-CA) and

> > > Arlen Specter

> > > (R-PA) would allow the cloning of embryos

> for

> > > stem cell research but

> > > prohibit reproductive cloning.

> > >

> > > Speaking with the Washington Post,

> Orthodox

> > > Union Director of Public

> > > Policy Diament said the joint

> statement

> > > " will help people to

> > > understand that there is a religiously

> informed,

> > > moral basis for supporting

> > > this research that is at least as strong

> as the

> > > religiously informed, moral

> > > basis for opposing it. "

> > >

> > > The statement marks a break in the ranks

> of

> > > religious conservatives on

> > > the issue. Many Catholic and Protestant

> groups

> > > remain steadfast in their

> > > opposition to all forms of human cloning.

> > > Speaking for the Catholic

> > > Church, Washington's Cardinal Theodore

> McCarrick

> > > told the Post that

> > > the use of cloned embryos for stem cell

> research

> > > may lead scientists to

> > > " take on the role of God and reduce humans

> to

> > > mere spare parts. "

> > >

> > >

> > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may

> > > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to

> > >

> > > shydrager-unsubscribe@y...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Mesaletta,

Well said. Write more often.

God Bless,

Judy & Jim Stark

Religion and stem cell research

> >

> >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > This is interesting from a standpoint that Christians always seem

> to

> > > support banning stem cell research by using Old Testament

> scriptures.

> > > It seems to me that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew )

> > > Personally, I think the Catholic statement of " take on the role

> of God

> > > and reduce humans to mere spare parts. " , is rather silly in light

> of

> > > blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants and organ transplants

> NOW.

> > > Will they ever learn that the only " spare parts " are cells so

> small you

> > > can not see them without extreme magnification.

> > >

> > > But then too, bin Laden is against stem cell research also.

> > >

> > > Take care, Bill Werre

> > >

> > >

> >

> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020313/hl_nm/cloni

> ng_rel

> > igion_1016043752

> > >

> > > US Orthodox Jewish Groups OK Cloning

> > > for Research

> > > Wed Mar 13, 1:22 PM ET

> > >

> > > NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Two of the

> nation's

> > > largest Orthodox

> > > Jewish groups on Tuesday broke with

> > > conservatives from the Christian

> > > right in supporting the use of cloned

> embryos

> > > for medical research.

> > >

> > > In a joint statement, the Union of

> Orthodox

> > > Jewish Congregations of

> > > America and the Rabbinical Council of

> America

> > > said, " We must be

> > > careful to distinguish between cloning for

> > > therapeutic purposes--which

> > > ought to be pursued, and cloning for

> > > reproductive purposes--which we

> > > oppose. "

> > >

> > > The use of cloned embryos for stem cell

> > > research, which has the

> > > potential to treat or cure a host of

> diseases,

> > > has been hotly debated in

> > > the US over the past year. While the Bush

> > > administration is backing a

> > > Senate bill authorizing a total ban on all

> human

> > > cloning, another bill

> > > sponsored by Senators Diane Feinstein

> (D-CA) and

> > > Arlen Specter

> > > (R-PA) would allow the cloning of embryos

> for

> > > stem cell research but

> > > prohibit reproductive cloning.

> > >

> > > Speaking with the Washington Post,

> Orthodox

> > > Union Director of Public

> > > Policy Diament said the joint

> statement

> > > " will help people to

> > > understand that there is a religiously

> informed,

> > > moral basis for supporting

> > > this research that is at least as strong

> as the

> > > religiously informed, moral

> > > basis for opposing it. "

> > >

> > > The statement marks a break in the ranks

> of

> > > religious conservatives on

> > > the issue. Many Catholic and Protestant

> groups

> > > remain steadfast in their

> > > opposition to all forms of human cloning.

> > > Speaking for the Catholic

> > > Church, Washington's Cardinal Theodore

> McCarrick

> > > told the Post that

> > > the use of cloned embryos for stem cell

> research

> > > may lead scientists to

> > > " take on the role of God and reduce humans

> to

> > > mere spare parts. "

> > >

> > >

> > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may

> > > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to

> > >

> > > shydrager-unsubscribe@y...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Bill,

You should send this to the newspaper editorial section! Your essay was very

eloquent and compelling. M.

Re: Religion and stem cell research

Jim,

Sorry if you took it that I was critizing the Church itself, I an only critizing

the Cardinal (a Man) for using an illogical argument against the Jews who

supported stem cell research.

Actually, you just made a point against some of the latest Catholic priests

speaking against stem cell research. They are saying that adult stem cells can

produce any cell and therefore should be used for research, however, if they

can produce any cell, that would make them the same as pluripotent stem cells.

I do agree with you on this statement " but this issue is very complicated, and

needs constant scrutiny. " But many religions believe that stem cell research is

okay and the law of this land is that one religion should not be set above

another, which Bush's proclamation does. Why should your religion be set above

mine or the Jews? Remember that only 20 years ago the Catholics were arguing

that fetal tissue transplant was wrong " because it would cause more abortions " .

The total fetal tissue transplant research used less than 1000 fetuses all of

which were donated by families where the fetus had no chance of survival (i.e.

the mother was killed in an auto accident before the fetus was 6 weeks old).

Yet those were adult cells by the standards of today. It did not cause more

abortions and it was not pluripotent stem cells, so why was it wrong?

Now according to your church leaders, there are 1.5 million abortions per year

is the USA alone (30 million fetuses over 20 years). My question is how did the

research cause " more " abortions? I am not saying the church is right or wrong,

I am saying that they do not have the right to stop me from believing my way in

the USA and they certainly do not have the right to stop the research with more

than half of the people in the USA believing that stem cell research should go

ahead. You have the right to believe exactly what you want to believe, I am all

for that, just do not tell me what I believe is wrong.

I was referring to the term " body parts " as foolish, do you actually consider

stem cells " body parts " ? If you go onto the Catholic anti-abortion sites, they

show arms, legs, etc as examples of " the slaughter of babies for body parts " and

then go into diatribes on stem cell research. Is that being truthful? Sorry,

but to me that is false advertising. Any fight on ethics should be truthful,

but then that is only MY opinion, I thought my body was a temple of God and that

God wanted me to think. I know many Catholics (without brain disorders) who

think stem cell research should go ahead. I also know Catholics who use birth

control, is that a sin?

It is my understanding (I could be wrong or my sources could be wrong) that the

Roman Catholic Church only adopted the stance that the baby was a human at

conception at conception less than 200 years ago and before that it was the same

as Jews believe. Then too the question becomes " can conception take place in a

test tube OR only when the blastocyst is placed in a womb? " The blastocyst

(this has been proven) can not become a human without being placed in a womb.

Therefore is it truly conception without a womb?

This issue is very complicated, and unfortunately people are dying of brain

disorders every day. " Thou shalt not kill " - does that mean witholding a blood

transfusion from a dying child is " killing " ? How about witholding antibiotics?

Seems to me the USA is putting people in jail for manslaughter, who believe that

using those items is a sin (Jehovah's Witness and Christian Scientist).

Morality is in the eye of the beholder. Who is wrong???

Scientists (at least most of them) do not want to clone humans for body parts or

perfect humans, only for living cells to cure people with brain disorders. It

looks as if the other " body parts " such as heart tissue can be grown from adult

stem cells - so why isn't the Church against cloning heart " body parts " from

adult stem cells???? Ethics do not change from situation to situation.

Finally, why doesn't the Roman Catholic Church have funerals for the dead

blastocysts? They were human beings with a soul according to the Church, so

isn't it entitled to a funeral? Note - it is not only the Roman Catholic Church

condemning stem cell research, actually bin Laden also condemns it as " killing "

also.

When Luther nailed his 95 questions to the door of a church almost 500 years

ago, he did not want to critize the church itself, only the leaders. One of the

questions was " does the Pope have the right to sell forgiveness of sins "

(indulgences)? I do believe that the Roman Catholic Church does not sell

forgiveness of sins today and that Lutherans and Catholics sometimes celebrate

Holy Communion together these days. I am not attacking the Church itself only a

few MEN who are setting the " rules " . Until the Pope's proclamation that stem

cell research was bad, there were Roman Catholic websites saying stem cell

research was good and supported by theologians in the Church. They have since

disappeared at a time that we need good honest theological debate, just as in

the 1520's.

You and I both know that men are human and not God, therefore it is possible for

them to be wrong. Because men (even priests and Cardinals) do wrong things does

not mean that the Church as a whole is wrong. The Church is millions of people

who all are human and do wrong things but collectively they do more right than

wrong hopefully. Sorry, but those are my reasons for believing the Cardinal is

wrong in calling stem cells " body parts " .

Take care, Bill

If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may

unsubscribe by sending a blank email to

shydrager-unsubscribe