Re: Re: OT-Friend crashed-need to vent

[Guest guest]

Shelby, you're a true angel.

Hugs,

in NJ

*****************************************

In a message dated 9/25/2002 3:41:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

shine@... writes:

> She'll readily admit that her daughter had the surgery..but says she

> doesn't know why her protein dropped so drastically. It's

> frustrating! I just talked to her as if I didn't know she had the

> surgery. As I spend time with her, I believe she'll open up.

[Guest guest]

Shelby, you're a true angel.

Hugs,

in NJ

*****************************************

In a message dated 9/25/2002 3:41:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

shine@... writes:

> She'll readily admit that her daughter had the surgery..but says she

> doesn't know why her protein dropped so drastically. It's

> frustrating! I just talked to her as if I didn't know she had the

> surgery. As I spend time with her, I believe she'll open up.

[Guest guest]

Shelby, you're a true angel.

Hugs,

in NJ

*****************************************

In a message dated 9/25/2002 3:41:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

shine@... writes:

> She'll readily admit that her daughter had the surgery..but says she

> doesn't know why her protein dropped so drastically. It's

> frustrating! I just talked to her as if I didn't know she had the

> surgery. As I spend time with her, I believe she'll open up.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2002 6:27:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

datwell@... writes:

<< This whole thing has brought up so many painful memories -- when I was in

my " research " phase I met a woman who was 12 years post-op and her surgery

was sort of experimental -- sounded very distal by-pass (in Canada) -- she

was dying, >>

Wow ,

Your post stirred up so many emotions in me, some that I push to the back of

the closet and don't want to deal with. Funny how this things seems to make

a train that way, cause I know you had the same reaction to Shelby's post.

I've been very open about my surgery ever since deciding to do it. I've told

EVERYONE for over 16 months. Except my mother. She is so critical and has a

way of making me feel ashamed no matter what the issue. I have avoided her

like the plague for several years and Yes, I feel guilty about that too.

This week she asked me HOW I was losing weight and I told her I was on a

mostly liquid protein diet. Not exactly a lie, but one heck of an omission.

Last month I attended an annual board meeting, many of those attending only

see me once a year. Quite a few made comments about my weight loss and I

found myself making wan smiles and being quiet. Not sure why the shift in

disclosure, perhaps I'm just sick of talking about IT and wanting to get on

with life. I'm tired of explaining and overcoming people's ignorant

assumptions about the process. One client saw me a month post op and wanted

to know why I was still fat, I think she thought I was going to have 150

pounds of liposuction.

One of my clients had a gastric bypass about 25 years ago. She was part of a

medical study group. Every time she sees me she never fails to tell me that

everyone else in that group has died. That she has outlived everyone by 4

years. She looks like a cadaver herself, but she smokes and was fussing at

me for eating broccoli cause " it has too many calories. " Criminy! Broccoli

has too many calories? I wasn't eating a field of it! But between her

harping and Sue Widmark's website I do wonder if there is a sinister side to

the procedure or are we are just talking about people who have no clue or

desire to take care of themselves properly.

I feel like hell, so tired all the time I can hardly maintain a normal

schedule. WHERE is that energy that everyone else is talking about?? I'm not

just tired, I'm weak. Solid or dense foods are painful and too often don't

stay long. I'm doing 3 or 4 shakes per day,eating low carb, getting my labs

done, taking B-12 shots, taking sublingual B-12 tablets, and enough

supplements to choke a horse. I'm doing this cause I am smart, compliant,

and listen to the wealth of experience on a few boards. If I was relying on

my FEELINGS, I would throw all those damn pills away cause they trouble my

pouch, I'd be eating chips,brownies, mashed potatoes, soup, and drinking

sprite cause that's what I want and they don't hurt.

I'm not surprised that in the absence of internet support many of those

patients years ago fell into such malnourishment that they died. Just the

availability of products has probably exploded in the last 5 years or so. If

I had to rely on GNC I would be in a world of hurt.

I'm thankful to Shelby for posting about this situation. It makes me

grateful for all that I've learned, and it gives me dire warning to not give

up what sometimes seems to be a pain in the butt routine.

B

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2002 6:27:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

datwell@... writes:

<< This whole thing has brought up so many painful memories -- when I was in

my " research " phase I met a woman who was 12 years post-op and her surgery

was sort of experimental -- sounded very distal by-pass (in Canada) -- she

was dying, >>

Wow ,

Your post stirred up so many emotions in me, some that I push to the back of

the closet and don't want to deal with. Funny how this things seems to make

a train that way, cause I know you had the same reaction to Shelby's post.

I've been very open about my surgery ever since deciding to do it. I've told

EVERYONE for over 16 months. Except my mother. She is so critical and has a

way of making me feel ashamed no matter what the issue. I have avoided her

like the plague for several years and Yes, I feel guilty about that too.

This week she asked me HOW I was losing weight and I told her I was on a

mostly liquid protein diet. Not exactly a lie, but one heck of an omission.

Last month I attended an annual board meeting, many of those attending only

see me once a year. Quite a few made comments about my weight loss and I

found myself making wan smiles and being quiet. Not sure why the shift in

disclosure, perhaps I'm just sick of talking about IT and wanting to get on

with life. I'm tired of explaining and overcoming people's ignorant

assumptions about the process. One client saw me a month post op and wanted

to know why I was still fat, I think she thought I was going to have 150

pounds of liposuction.

One of my clients had a gastric bypass about 25 years ago. She was part of a

medical study group. Every time she sees me she never fails to tell me that

everyone else in that group has died. That she has outlived everyone by 4

years. She looks like a cadaver herself, but she smokes and was fussing at

me for eating broccoli cause " it has too many calories. " Criminy! Broccoli

has too many calories? I wasn't eating a field of it! But between her

harping and Sue Widmark's website I do wonder if there is a sinister side to

the procedure or are we are just talking about people who have no clue or

desire to take care of themselves properly.

I feel like hell, so tired all the time I can hardly maintain a normal

schedule. WHERE is that energy that everyone else is talking about?? I'm not

just tired, I'm weak. Solid or dense foods are painful and too often don't

stay long. I'm doing 3 or 4 shakes per day,eating low carb, getting my labs

done, taking B-12 shots, taking sublingual B-12 tablets, and enough

supplements to choke a horse. I'm doing this cause I am smart, compliant,

and listen to the wealth of experience on a few boards. If I was relying on

my FEELINGS, I would throw all those damn pills away cause they trouble my

pouch, I'd be eating chips,brownies, mashed potatoes, soup, and drinking

sprite cause that's what I want and they don't hurt.

I'm not surprised that in the absence of internet support many of those

patients years ago fell into such malnourishment that they died. Just the

availability of products has probably exploded in the last 5 years or so. If

I had to rely on GNC I would be in a world of hurt.

I'm thankful to Shelby for posting about this situation. It makes me

grateful for all that I've learned, and it gives me dire warning to not give

up what sometimes seems to be a pain in the butt routine.

B

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/2002 6:27:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

datwell@... writes:

<< This whole thing has brought up so many painful memories -- when I was in

my " research " phase I met a woman who was 12 years post-op and her surgery

was sort of experimental -- sounded very distal by-pass (in Canada) -- she

was dying, >>

Wow ,

Your post stirred up so many emotions in me, some that I push to the back of

the closet and don't want to deal with. Funny how this things seems to make

a train that way, cause I know you had the same reaction to Shelby's post.

I've been very open about my surgery ever since deciding to do it. I've told

EVERYONE for over 16 months. Except my mother. She is so critical and has a

way of making me feel ashamed no matter what the issue. I have avoided her

like the plague for several years and Yes, I feel guilty about that too.

This week she asked me HOW I was losing weight and I told her I was on a

mostly liquid protein diet. Not exactly a lie, but one heck of an omission.

Last month I attended an annual board meeting, many of those attending only

see me once a year. Quite a few made comments about my weight loss and I

found myself making wan smiles and being quiet. Not sure why the shift in

disclosure, perhaps I'm just sick of talking about IT and wanting to get on

with life. I'm tired of explaining and overcoming people's ignorant

assumptions about the process. One client saw me a month post op and wanted

to know why I was still fat, I think she thought I was going to have 150

pounds of liposuction.

One of my clients had a gastric bypass about 25 years ago. She was part of a

medical study group. Every time she sees me she never fails to tell me that

everyone else in that group has died. That she has outlived everyone by 4

years. She looks like a cadaver herself, but she smokes and was fussing at

me for eating broccoli cause " it has too many calories. " Criminy! Broccoli

has too many calories? I wasn't eating a field of it! But between her

harping and Sue Widmark's website I do wonder if there is a sinister side to

the procedure or are we are just talking about people who have no clue or

desire to take care of themselves properly.

I feel like hell, so tired all the time I can hardly maintain a normal

schedule. WHERE is that energy that everyone else is talking about?? I'm not

just tired, I'm weak. Solid or dense foods are painful and too often don't

stay long. I'm doing 3 or 4 shakes per day,eating low carb, getting my labs

done, taking B-12 shots, taking sublingual B-12 tablets, and enough

supplements to choke a horse. I'm doing this cause I am smart, compliant,

and listen to the wealth of experience on a few boards. If I was relying on

my FEELINGS, I would throw all those damn pills away cause they trouble my

pouch, I'd be eating chips,brownies, mashed potatoes, soup, and drinking

sprite cause that's what I want and they don't hurt.

I'm not surprised that in the absence of internet support many of those

patients years ago fell into such malnourishment that they died. Just the

availability of products has probably exploded in the last 5 years or so. If

I had to rely on GNC I would be in a world of hurt.

I'm thankful to Shelby for posting about this situation. It makes me

grateful for all that I've learned, and it gives me dire warning to not give

up what sometimes seems to be a pain in the butt routine.

B

[Guest guest]

,

I really appreciate your responses. I have actually decided to print out

some of the messages and advice from this board to keep a journal of sorts

on different topics. Being about 10 months out from my revision after

gaining all and more back from my first surgery 19 years ago...I want to

listen to the sound advice I am hearing this time around to support my

long-term success. Thank you so much for sharing so openly on your

struggles that will help the rest of us succeed. And I am confident you have

the strength to regain your conviction to the program!

To all the group and Shelby especially, thanks for sharing this nightmare of

a situation and the wonderful advice and caring responses that have been

posted. I admire your willingness to step in and help this lady. I was told

very frankly by my mentor prior to surgery that this is suicide if we don't

follow the program. Your sharing has convinced me of that fact like no

other warnings would be able to do.

I'm so grateful this support group exists!

Martha H

Hill Ca

RE: Re: OT-Friend crashed-need to vent

> Dear ,

> Your post hit so close to home for me too -- lately I've been just

> struggling to stay afloat -- I changed my " habits " that I worked so hard

to

> form in the first year / 18 months / my energy is yuck, my weight gain is

> ridiculous and I feel like YUCK... WHY I changed what was working I will

> never understand (duh...) but I did and since I didn't keep a diary or

keep

> good track I'm forced to try to " remember " what I did that worked in the

> past. Last night was the first night in FOREVER (well, 2 months) that I

> didn't fight a huge battle over food.

>

> As for not telling anyone -- my husband, my mom and one best friend know.

I

> just did not and do not want to be the topic of conversation at every meal

> particularly among people who either are naturally thin or not but would

> discuss my eating or my weight loss or whatever instead of the things we

> enjoy talking about -- just saw no point in telling everyone although if

> someone who I think could be helped by knowing -- I do touch on the topic,

> get a reaction and then decide to share or not.

>

> The really strange thing (to me) is that I didn't " change " what I was

doing

> until I got my 2 year labs (great numbers) and I think I started feeling

> bullet proof -- forgetting that I worked my butt off to get those numbers

> and I was compliant to no end to my shakes, my supp's and my eating

> habits -- then, I just went off the deep end... changing my shake types,

my

> food habits and I feel like YUCK, look as bad and gained weight... how

dumb

> is that???

>

> Anyway, I'm back to doing my compliance thing to see if I can stop

> struggling, considering a scope to make sure of no mechanical problems

and

> ready to buckle down and get back on track (since I can't fit into over

1/2

> the cloths in my very limited closet now....)

>

> >> This week she asked me HOW I was losing weight and I told her I was on

a

> mostly liquid protein diet. Not exactly a lie, but one heck of an

> omission.<<

> Don't feel guilty about that -- I tell people all kinds of stuff but

> mostly, lately I've just come to the point of saying something to the end

> of.... " ya' know, I was really sick when I was gaining all that weight and

> not one person asked me about my health and now that I'm healthy and

thinner

> everyone seems to be concerned... do you prefer me being obese? And sick?

> And really nearly dying? "

> I know it isn't all that nice but why didn't people ask me if I was " ok "

> 150 lbs ago?

>

> >> One of my clients had a gastric bypass about 25 years ago. She

> > was part of a medical study group. Every time she sees me she never

fails

> to tell me that everyone else in that group has died. That she has

outlived

> everyone by 4 years.<<

> Is she doing protein, supp's and such? The Broccoli comment was way over

> the top don't you think? I don't even count carbs or calories from high

end

> foods like good veggies... that is scary almost that anyone would consider

> broccoli a poor food choice :-(

>

> >> I feel like hell, so tired all the time I can hardly maintain a normal

> schedule. WHERE is that energy that everyone else is talking about?? I'm

> not just tired, I'm weak.<<<

> I get that way -- am that way right now -- when my life becomes a daily

> high stress event I loose my energy, I'm tired and I feel weak. I also

> notice when my schedule gets like it is right now I'm not exercising

> regularly... not even a " walk " each day to clear my head.... nothing --

and

> I know for me when I stop doing a regular exercise of some type (even

though

> I'm on the go all the time it isn't the same...) my metabolism slows

down --

> I see this happening to me right now, I'm much to tired and weak and need

to

> just go for that walk every day for myself, get my metabolism back up, get

> back to eating healthy, keep my shakes up... that's where my energy is...

> If " I " don't " inspire " my metabolism then it takes a vacation -- that's a

> big part of what's going on with my " slowness " -- poor diet, change in

> protein, no exercise, high stress.... NOT a good way to be living and

expect

> this to be successful for me.

>

> I too appreciate it when people are willing to say, " Hey, this is HARD!!! "

> I think we all hit rough spots and denying them or being quiet about them

> doesn't help us and it doesn't help others... I'm in a rough spot -- one I

> promised myself I wouldn't get into yet here I am anyway. *sigh* Now... to

> dig my way out ~smile~

>

> hugz,

> ~denise

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I really appreciate your responses. I have actually decided to print out

some of the messages and advice from this board to keep a journal of sorts

on different topics. Being about 10 months out from my revision after

gaining all and more back from my first surgery 19 years ago...I want to

listen to the sound advice I am hearing this time around to support my

long-term success. Thank you so much for sharing so openly on your

struggles that will help the rest of us succeed. And I am confident you have

the strength to regain your conviction to the program!

To all the group and Shelby especially, thanks for sharing this nightmare of

a situation and the wonderful advice and caring responses that have been

posted. I admire your willingness to step in and help this lady. I was told

very frankly by my mentor prior to surgery that this is suicide if we don't

follow the program. Your sharing has convinced me of that fact like no

other warnings would be able to do.

I'm so grateful this support group exists!

Martha H

Hill Ca

RE: Re: OT-Friend crashed-need to vent

> Dear ,

> Your post hit so close to home for me too -- lately I've been just

> struggling to stay afloat -- I changed my " habits " that I worked so hard

to

> form in the first year / 18 months / my energy is yuck, my weight gain is

> ridiculous and I feel like YUCK... WHY I changed what was working I will

> never understand (duh...) but I did and since I didn't keep a diary or

keep

> good track I'm forced to try to " remember " what I did that worked in the

> past. Last night was the first night in FOREVER (well, 2 months) that I

> didn't fight a huge battle over food.

>

> As for not telling anyone -- my husband, my mom and one best friend know.

I

> just did not and do not want to be the topic of conversation at every meal

> particularly among people who either are naturally thin or not but would

> discuss my eating or my weight loss or whatever instead of the things we

> enjoy talking about -- just saw no point in telling everyone although if

> someone who I think could be helped by knowing -- I do touch on the topic,

> get a reaction and then decide to share or not.

>

> The really strange thing (to me) is that I didn't " change " what I was

doing

> until I got my 2 year labs (great numbers) and I think I started feeling

> bullet proof -- forgetting that I worked my butt off to get those numbers

> and I was compliant to no end to my shakes, my supp's and my eating

> habits -- then, I just went off the deep end... changing my shake types,

my

> food habits and I feel like YUCK, look as bad and gained weight... how

dumb

> is that???

>

> Anyway, I'm back to doing my compliance thing to see if I can stop

> struggling, considering a scope to make sure of no mechanical problems

and

> ready to buckle down and get back on track (since I can't fit into over

1/2

> the cloths in my very limited closet now....)

>

> >> This week she asked me HOW I was losing weight and I told her I was on

a

> mostly liquid protein diet. Not exactly a lie, but one heck of an

> omission.<<

> Don't feel guilty about that -- I tell people all kinds of stuff but

> mostly, lately I've just come to the point of saying something to the end

> of.... " ya' know, I was really sick when I was gaining all that weight and

> not one person asked me about my health and now that I'm healthy and

thinner

> everyone seems to be concerned... do you prefer me being obese? And sick?

> And really nearly dying? "

> I know it isn't all that nice but why didn't people ask me if I was " ok "

> 150 lbs ago?

>

> >> One of my clients had a gastric bypass about 25 years ago. She

> > was part of a medical study group. Every time she sees me she never

fails

> to tell me that everyone else in that group has died. That she has

outlived

> everyone by 4 years.<<

> Is she doing protein, supp's and such? The Broccoli comment was way over

> the top don't you think? I don't even count carbs or calories from high

end

> foods like good veggies... that is scary almost that anyone would consider

> broccoli a poor food choice :-(

>

> >> I feel like hell, so tired all the time I can hardly maintain a normal

> schedule. WHERE is that energy that everyone else is talking about?? I'm

> not just tired, I'm weak.<<<

> I get that way -- am that way right now -- when my life becomes a daily

> high stress event I loose my energy, I'm tired and I feel weak. I also

> notice when my schedule gets like it is right now I'm not exercising

> regularly... not even a " walk " each day to clear my head.... nothing --

and

> I know for me when I stop doing a regular exercise of some type (even

though

> I'm on the go all the time it isn't the same...) my metabolism slows

down --

> I see this happening to me right now, I'm much to tired and weak and need

to

> just go for that walk every day for myself, get my metabolism back up, get

> back to eating healthy, keep my shakes up... that's where my energy is...

> If " I " don't " inspire " my metabolism then it takes a vacation -- that's a

> big part of what's going on with my " slowness " -- poor diet, change in

> protein, no exercise, high stress.... NOT a good way to be living and

expect

> this to be successful for me.

>

> I too appreciate it when people are willing to say, " Hey, this is HARD!!! "

> I think we all hit rough spots and denying them or being quiet about them

> doesn't help us and it doesn't help others... I'm in a rough spot -- one I

> promised myself I wouldn't get into yet here I am anyway. *sigh* Now... to

> dig my way out ~smile~

>

> hugz,

> ~denise

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shelby,

This whole thing has brought up so many painful memories -- when I was in

my " research " phase I met a woman who was 12 years post-op and her surgery

was sort of experimental -- sounded very distal by-pass (in Canada) -- she

was dying, knew she was dying -- I didn't know about the protein like I do

now but did ask her about it and other supps and she said they wouldn't help

her (she didn't try them...) slowly, over about a years time her vital

organs began to shut down... one day, I got an e-mail from her husband that

she was gone... I was maybe a month or two post op.

Since your friend won't admit she had the surgery (I'm one of those -- I've

told NO one...) it will be more difficult for her to recant on her story and

I think taking the approach you are taking is wise.

Agreeably, if her B vit's are in the toilet her brain / thought / function

may not be up to par so pushing those buttons would cause nothing but

further alienation.

Do you remember so many stories told here by us about non-WLS people who

were very sick and we turned them on to shakes to help the nutritional

end... My dad is terminal but has all his wits about him, loosing weight

last year I took all the " fixings " to my mom's and showed her how to use the

powders and such to make him " malts " and he began to gain some weight on

those as well as just a general feeling of feeling better. He was already

doing good in the vitamin area but the extra energy that the shakes provided

him have made a big difference in his quality of life and still do today.

Maybe you could approach her on that level -- some one mentioned the

" anorexic " end of a possible " thought " process there so maybe stress that

these will NOT make her gain weight, the zero sugar end of shakes and the

high protein for her energy level... I'd also go over and over with her that

even if she doesn't need the shakes herself she needs to do them to " show "

her daughter how to properly nourish herself -- as Mom's, we often won't do

what is best for us but will do it in a heart beat if it will help our

children.

Focus on how much her daughter needs this and as her mother she needs to

show " support " for her daughter by drinking them together -- for her

daughters " good " health... since she does admit to her daughters surgery I'd

focus on that... on her daughter and how important it is for her, as mother

and roll model to do the shakes " with " her daughter to teach her daughter

what she must do to take care of her health.

This is an awful situation all the way around and I agree it is not by

accident that your paths crossed in the past so you can be there for her

now.

I wouldn't try to get her to admit she had the surgery since she already

told you she didn't... just focus on the daughter -- what Mom must do to

help the daughter is to drink shakes " together " -- get rid of a lot of that

junk food laying around and replace it with fruit or something " for her

daughters best health " and because it is " Mom's " responsibility to learn how

to best 'guide' her daughter then Mom needs to learn from you to help her

daughter.

Don't be afraid to use the word " die " -- probably not about Mom's health

but about her daughter... It would be excellent if you could get her to have

the " daughters " surgeon to make available her op report so you can see how

far by-passed you are dealing with... and maybe copies of labs to see how

far in the toilet your looking at.

Someone mentioned talking with an anorexic team that treats the starving

because I know you can't just start " full feeding " after some one has been

starving... it is a slow process to build up the feeding to a good level

that will help 'her daughter' learn how and what to eat with the surgery she

has.

Goddess bless you for being so " there " for her -- what an eye-opener for

all of us. Please keep us posted on how you do each day... progress and

such -- you put OT in the subject line and this is so NOT off topic!!! We

all need to know and hear and to support in situations like this... support

you, her and her daughter.

hugz,

~denise

[Guest guest]

Dear Shelby,

This whole thing has brought up so many painful memories -- when I was in

my " research " phase I met a woman who was 12 years post-op and her surgery

was sort of experimental -- sounded very distal by-pass (in Canada) -- she

was dying, knew she was dying -- I didn't know about the protein like I do

now but did ask her about it and other supps and she said they wouldn't help

her (she didn't try them...) slowly, over about a years time her vital

organs began to shut down... one day, I got an e-mail from her husband that

she was gone... I was maybe a month or two post op.

Since your friend won't admit she had the surgery (I'm one of those -- I've

told NO one...) it will be more difficult for her to recant on her story and

I think taking the approach you are taking is wise.

Agreeably, if her B vit's are in the toilet her brain / thought / function

may not be up to par so pushing those buttons would cause nothing but

further alienation.

Do you remember so many stories told here by us about non-WLS people who

were very sick and we turned them on to shakes to help the nutritional

end... My dad is terminal but has all his wits about him, loosing weight

last year I took all the " fixings " to my mom's and showed her how to use the

powders and such to make him " malts " and he began to gain some weight on

those as well as just a general feeling of feeling better. He was already

doing good in the vitamin area but the extra energy that the shakes provided

him have made a big difference in his quality of life and still do today.

Maybe you could approach her on that level -- some one mentioned the

" anorexic " end of a possible " thought " process there so maybe stress that

these will NOT make her gain weight, the zero sugar end of shakes and the

high protein for her energy level... I'd also go over and over with her that

even if she doesn't need the shakes herself she needs to do them to " show "

her daughter how to properly nourish herself -- as Mom's, we often won't do

what is best for us but will do it in a heart beat if it will help our

children.

Focus on how much her daughter needs this and as her mother she needs to

show " support " for her daughter by drinking them together -- for her

daughters " good " health... since she does admit to her daughters surgery I'd

focus on that... on her daughter and how important it is for her, as mother

and roll model to do the shakes " with " her daughter to teach her daughter

what she must do to take care of her health.

This is an awful situation all the way around and I agree it is not by

accident that your paths crossed in the past so you can be there for her

now.

I wouldn't try to get her to admit she had the surgery since she already

told you she didn't... just focus on the daughter -- what Mom must do to

help the daughter is to drink shakes " together " -- get rid of a lot of that

junk food laying around and replace it with fruit or something " for her

daughters best health " and because it is " Mom's " responsibility to learn how

to best 'guide' her daughter then Mom needs to learn from you to help her

daughter.

Don't be afraid to use the word " die " -- probably not about Mom's health

but about her daughter... It would be excellent if you could get her to have

the " daughters " surgeon to make available her op report so you can see how

far by-passed you are dealing with... and maybe copies of labs to see how

far in the toilet your looking at.

Someone mentioned talking with an anorexic team that treats the starving

because I know you can't just start " full feeding " after some one has been

starving... it is a slow process to build up the feeding to a good level

that will help 'her daughter' learn how and what to eat with the surgery she

has.

Goddess bless you for being so " there " for her -- what an eye-opener for

all of us. Please keep us posted on how you do each day... progress and

such -- you put OT in the subject line and this is so NOT off topic!!! We

all need to know and hear and to support in situations like this... support

you, her and her daughter.

hugz,

~denise

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Your post hit so close to home for me too -- lately I've been just

struggling to stay afloat -- I changed my " habits " that I worked so hard to

form in the first year / 18 months / my energy is yuck, my weight gain is

ridiculous and I feel like YUCK... WHY I changed what was working I will

never understand (duh...) but I did and since I didn't keep a diary or keep

good track I'm forced to try to " remember " what I did that worked in the

past. Last night was the first night in FOREVER (well, 2 months) that I

didn't fight a huge battle over food.

As for not telling anyone -- my husband, my mom and one best friend know. I

just did not and do not want to be the topic of conversation at every meal

particularly among people who either are naturally thin or not but would

discuss my eating or my weight loss or whatever instead of the things we

enjoy talking about -- just saw no point in telling everyone although if

someone who I think could be helped by knowing -- I do touch on the topic,

get a reaction and then decide to share or not.

The really strange thing (to me) is that I didn't " change " what I was doing

until I got my 2 year labs (great numbers) and I think I started feeling

bullet proof -- forgetting that I worked my butt off to get those numbers

and I was compliant to no end to my shakes, my supp's and my eating

habits -- then, I just went off the deep end... changing my shake types, my

food habits and I feel like YUCK, look as bad and gained weight... how dumb

is that???

Anyway, I'm back to doing my compliance thing to see if I can stop

struggling, considering a scope to make sure of no mechanical problems and

ready to buckle down and get back on track (since I can't fit into over 1/2

the cloths in my very limited closet now....)

>> This week she asked me HOW I was losing weight and I told her I was on a

mostly liquid protein diet. Not exactly a lie, but one heck of an

omission.<<

Don't feel guilty about that -- I tell people all kinds of stuff but

mostly, lately I've just come to the point of saying something to the end

of.... " ya' know, I was really sick when I was gaining all that weight and

not one person asked me about my health and now that I'm healthy and thinner

everyone seems to be concerned... do you prefer me being obese? And sick?

And really nearly dying? "

I know it isn't all that nice but why didn't people ask me if I was " ok "

150 lbs ago?

>> One of my clients had a gastric bypass about 25 years ago. She

> was part of a medical study group. Every time she sees me she never fails

to tell me that everyone else in that group has died. That she has outlived

everyone by 4 years.<<

Is she doing protein, supp's and such? The Broccoli comment was way over

the top don't you think? I don't even count carbs or calories from high end

foods like good veggies... that is scary almost that anyone would consider

broccoli a poor food choice :-(

>> I feel like hell, so tired all the time I can hardly maintain a normal

schedule. WHERE is that energy that everyone else is talking about?? I'm

not just tired, I'm weak.<<<

I get that way -- am that way right now -- when my life becomes a daily

high stress event I loose my energy, I'm tired and I feel weak. I also

notice when my schedule gets like it is right now I'm not exercising

regularly... not even a " walk " each day to clear my head.... nothing -- and

I know for me when I stop doing a regular exercise of some type (even though

I'm on the go all the time it isn't the same...) my metabolism slows down --

I see this happening to me right now, I'm much to tired and weak and need to

just go for that walk every day for myself, get my metabolism back up, get

back to eating healthy, keep my shakes up... that's where my energy is...

If " I " don't " inspire " my metabolism then it takes a vacation -- that's a

big part of what's going on with my " slowness " -- poor diet, change in

protein, no exercise, high stress.... NOT a good way to be living and expect

this to be successful for me.

I too appreciate it when people are willing to say, " Hey, this is HARD!!! "

I think we all hit rough spots and denying them or being quiet about them

doesn't help us and it doesn't help others... I'm in a rough spot -- one I

promised myself I wouldn't get into yet here I am anyway. *sigh* Now... to

dig my way out ~smile~

hugz,

~denise

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Your post hit so close to home for me too -- lately I've been just

struggling to stay afloat -- I changed my " habits " that I worked so hard to

form in the first year / 18 months / my energy is yuck, my weight gain is

ridiculous and I feel like YUCK... WHY I changed what was working I will

never understand (duh...) but I did and since I didn't keep a diary or keep

good track I'm forced to try to " remember " what I did that worked in the

past. Last night was the first night in FOREVER (well, 2 months) that I

didn't fight a huge battle over food.

As for not telling anyone -- my husband, my mom and one best friend know. I

just did not and do not want to be the topic of conversation at every meal

particularly among people who either are naturally thin or not but would

discuss my eating or my weight loss or whatever instead of the things we

enjoy talking about -- just saw no point in telling everyone although if

someone who I think could be helped by knowing -- I do touch on the topic,

get a reaction and then decide to share or not.

The really strange thing (to me) is that I didn't " change " what I was doing

until I got my 2 year labs (great numbers) and I think I started feeling

bullet proof -- forgetting that I worked my butt off to get those numbers

and I was compliant to no end to my shakes, my supp's and my eating

habits -- then, I just went off the deep end... changing my shake types, my

food habits and I feel like YUCK, look as bad and gained weight... how dumb

is that???

Anyway, I'm back to doing my compliance thing to see if I can stop

struggling, considering a scope to make sure of no mechanical problems and

ready to buckle down and get back on track (since I can't fit into over 1/2

the cloths in my very limited closet now....)

>> This week she asked me HOW I was losing weight and I told her I was on a

mostly liquid protein diet. Not exactly a lie, but one heck of an

omission.<<

Don't feel guilty about that -- I tell people all kinds of stuff but

mostly, lately I've just come to the point of saying something to the end

of.... " ya' know, I was really sick when I was gaining all that weight and

not one person asked me about my health and now that I'm healthy and thinner

everyone seems to be concerned... do you prefer me being obese? And sick?

And really nearly dying? "

I know it isn't all that nice but why didn't people ask me if I was " ok "

150 lbs ago?

>> One of my clients had a gastric bypass about 25 years ago. She

> was part of a medical study group. Every time she sees me she never fails

to tell me that everyone else in that group has died. That she has outlived

everyone by 4 years.<<

Is she doing protein, supp's and such? The Broccoli comment was way over

the top don't you think? I don't even count carbs or calories from high end

foods like good veggies... that is scary almost that anyone would consider

broccoli a poor food choice :-(

>> I feel like hell, so tired all the time I can hardly maintain a normal

schedule. WHERE is that energy that everyone else is talking about?? I'm

not just tired, I'm weak.<<<

I get that way -- am that way right now -- when my life becomes a daily

high stress event I loose my energy, I'm tired and I feel weak. I also

notice when my schedule gets like it is right now I'm not exercising

regularly... not even a " walk " each day to clear my head.... nothing -- and

I know for me when I stop doing a regular exercise of some type (even though

I'm on the go all the time it isn't the same...) my metabolism slows down --

I see this happening to me right now, I'm much to tired and weak and need to

just go for that walk every day for myself, get my metabolism back up, get

back to eating healthy, keep my shakes up... that's where my energy is...

If " I " don't " inspire " my metabolism then it takes a vacation -- that's a

big part of what's going on with my " slowness " -- poor diet, change in

protein, no exercise, high stress.... NOT a good way to be living and expect

this to be successful for me.

I too appreciate it when people are willing to say, " Hey, this is HARD!!! "

I think we all hit rough spots and denying them or being quiet about them

doesn't help us and it doesn't help others... I'm in a rough spot -- one I

promised myself I wouldn't get into yet here I am anyway. *sigh* Now... to

dig my way out ~smile~

hugz,

~denise

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Your post hit so close to home for me too -- lately I've been just

struggling to stay afloat -- I changed my " habits " that I worked so hard to

form in the first year / 18 months / my energy is yuck, my weight gain is

ridiculous and I feel like YUCK... WHY I changed what was working I will

never understand (duh...) but I did and since I didn't keep a diary or keep

good track I'm forced to try to " remember " what I did that worked in the

past. Last night was the first night in FOREVER (well, 2 months) that I

didn't fight a huge battle over food.

As for not telling anyone -- my husband, my mom and one best friend know. I

just did not and do not want to be the topic of conversation at every meal

particularly among people who either are naturally thin or not but would

discuss my eating or my weight loss or whatever instead of the things we

enjoy talking about -- just saw no point in telling everyone although if

someone who I think could be helped by knowing -- I do touch on the topic,

get a reaction and then decide to share or not.

The really strange thing (to me) is that I didn't " change " what I was doing

until I got my 2 year labs (great numbers) and I think I started feeling

bullet proof -- forgetting that I worked my butt off to get those numbers

and I was compliant to no end to my shakes, my supp's and my eating

habits -- then, I just went off the deep end... changing my shake types, my

food habits and I feel like YUCK, look as bad and gained weight... how dumb

is that???

Anyway, I'm back to doing my compliance thing to see if I can stop

struggling, considering a scope to make sure of no mechanical problems and

ready to buckle down and get back on track (since I can't fit into over 1/2

the cloths in my very limited closet now....)

>> This week she asked me HOW I was losing weight and I told her I was on a

mostly liquid protein diet. Not exactly a lie, but one heck of an

omission.<<

Don't feel guilty about that -- I tell people all kinds of stuff but

mostly, lately I've just come to the point of saying something to the end

of.... " ya' know, I was really sick when I was gaining all that weight and

not one person asked me about my health and now that I'm healthy and thinner

everyone seems to be concerned... do you prefer me being obese? And sick?

And really nearly dying? "

I know it isn't all that nice but why didn't people ask me if I was " ok "

150 lbs ago?

>> One of my clients had a gastric bypass about 25 years ago. She

> was part of a medical study group. Every time she sees me she never fails

to tell me that everyone else in that group has died. That she has outlived

everyone by 4 years.<<

Is she doing protein, supp's and such? The Broccoli comment was way over

the top don't you think? I don't even count carbs or calories from high end

foods like good veggies... that is scary almost that anyone would consider

broccoli a poor food choice :-(

>> I feel like hell, so tired all the time I can hardly maintain a normal

schedule. WHERE is that energy that everyone else is talking about?? I'm

not just tired, I'm weak.<<<

I get that way -- am that way right now -- when my life becomes a daily

high stress event I loose my energy, I'm tired and I feel weak. I also

notice when my schedule gets like it is right now I'm not exercising

regularly... not even a " walk " each day to clear my head.... nothing -- and

I know for me when I stop doing a regular exercise of some type (even though

I'm on the go all the time it isn't the same...) my metabolism slows down --

I see this happening to me right now, I'm much to tired and weak and need to

just go for that walk every day for myself, get my metabolism back up, get

back to eating healthy, keep my shakes up... that's where my energy is...

If " I " don't " inspire " my metabolism then it takes a vacation -- that's a

big part of what's going on with my " slowness " -- poor diet, change in

protein, no exercise, high stress.... NOT a good way to be living and expect

this to be successful for me.

I too appreciate it when people are willing to say, " Hey, this is HARD!!! "

I think we all hit rough spots and denying them or being quiet about them

doesn't help us and it doesn't help others... I'm in a rough spot -- one I

promised myself I wouldn't get into yet here I am anyway. *sigh* Now... to

dig my way out ~smile~

hugz,

~denise

[Guest guest]

Okay guys, here's the advice from my brother.

" contact the association of bairiatric surgeons,

contact the American Board of Internal Medicine,

contact the Ohio Board of Medicine (might be the Board

of Medical Examiners...look for the licensing body in

Ohio). The patient will need to file a complaint,

although they may take something from a support group

also...call and talk to the executive director if

possible. "

Are we gonna be proactive here? Maybe we can get this

surgeon name and draft a letter from the group.

=====

judy in austin

5'9 " of wild Texas redhead

SRVG 5/99 380 lbs

Ext. Abdominoplasty 5/00 180 lbs

Current 165-170 lbs

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Okay guys, here's the advice from my brother.

" contact the association of bairiatric surgeons,

contact the American Board of Internal Medicine,

contact the Ohio Board of Medicine (might be the Board

of Medical Examiners...look for the licensing body in

Ohio). The patient will need to file a complaint,

although they may take something from a support group

also...call and talk to the executive director if

possible. "

Are we gonna be proactive here? Maybe we can get this

surgeon name and draft a letter from the group.

=====

judy in austin

5'9 " of wild Texas redhead

SRVG 5/99 380 lbs

Ext. Abdominoplasty 5/00 180 lbs

Current 165-170 lbs

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Okay guys, here's the advice from my brother.

" contact the association of bairiatric surgeons,

contact the American Board of Internal Medicine,

contact the Ohio Board of Medicine (might be the Board

of Medical Examiners...look for the licensing body in

Ohio). The patient will need to file a complaint,

although they may take something from a support group

also...call and talk to the executive director if

possible. "

Are we gonna be proactive here? Maybe we can get this

surgeon name and draft a letter from the group.

=====

judy in austin

5'9 " of wild Texas redhead

SRVG 5/99 380 lbs

Ext. Abdominoplasty 5/00 180 lbs

Current 165-170 lbs

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Judy,

I'm not so sure that we can do anything to this surgeon. I mean, she won't even

confirm that she HAD surgery. If so, I don't know if this guy is her surgeon.

(I'm pretty sure he is, if her daughter is using him) but I have nothing to

prove it. I talked to her sister today, hoping to get confirmation on her

surgery, surgeon, etc..but she wouldn't say anything either. She asked alot of

questions, but never let on that had surgery. Besides, MEDICAID (Our tax

dollars) paid for the 14 year old's surgery! The gov't actually footed the bill

for her surgery...so, how can we do anything in the legal system?

I really don't want to make things rough for or her daughter.

Do you see my delimma here?

Much love,

Shelby

FAITH sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible!

Mark 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye

pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

--- judy davison divequeen2002@...> wrote:

>Okay guys, here's the advice from my brother.

>

> " contact the association of bairiatric surgeons,

>contact the American Board of Internal Medicine,

>contact the Ohio Board of Medicine (might be the Board

>of Medical Examiners...look for the licensing body in

>Ohio). The patient will need to file a complaint,

>although they may take something from a support group

>also...call and talk to the executive director if

>possible. "

>

>Are we gonna be proactive here? Maybe we can get this

>surgeon name and draft a letter from the group.

>

>=====

>judy in austin

>5'9 " of wild Texas redhead

>SRVG 5/99 380 lbs

>Ext. Abdominoplasty 5/00 180 lbs

>Current 165-170 lbs

>

>__________________________________________________

>