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> Addendum:

>

> Hi Phil

>

> I have found one possible paper but have to get permission to read

online.

>

> of Three Different Doses of a New Formulation of Oral Testosterone

> Undecanoate, Andriol Testocaps

> NS Houwing, F Maris, PG Schnabel, WM Bagchus - Pharmacotherapy -

> extenza-eps.com, 2003

> ... area under the serum concentration-time curve from 0 ... dose

(at 12

> hrs; Figure 2).

> Testosterone undecanoate returned to baseline levels just before ...

> ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

> _________________________________________

> Randle

> _________________________________________

Well, you can look at Figures 1 & 2 in the Androgel prescribing info.

Brad

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Thanks, Brad. I have only taken Testogel but will try and find an online URL

to Androgel.

Regards,

_________________________________________

Randle

_________________________________________

Re: Testing

>

>> Addendum:

>>

>> Hi Phil

>>

>> I have found one possible paper but have to get permission to read

> online.

>>

>> of Three Different Doses of a New Formulation of Oral Testosterone

>> Undecanoate, Andriol Testocaps

>> NS Houwing, F Maris, PG Schnabel, WM Bagchus - Pharmacotherapy -

>> extenza-eps.com, 2003

>> ... area under the serum concentration-time curve from 0 ... dose

> (at 12

>> hrs; Figure 2).

>> Testosterone undecanoate returned to baseline levels just before ...

>> ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

>> _________________________________________

>> Randle

>> _________________________________________

>

>

>

>

> Well, you can look at Figures 1 & 2 in the Androgel prescribing info.

> Brad

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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There is none I am talking about men on Testosterone meds. there levels stay

constant in the 24 hr. day if on shots the levels will go down day by day and on

gels they stay constant from 4 hrs after you put it on until the next day. If

one is going for his first test then most Dr.'s want the test done in the

morning because there levels not on T. meds is the highest in the morning. But

this is not the case for a man on T meds he is not getting his T from his

testis.

The posters question was " How long before the test should you not apply AG? "

Being on AndroGel and getting his test at 4pm he would be good to put the gel on

in the morning as long as he does not get the gel on the spot they take the

blood from.

Phil

Randle <peter_randle@...> wrote:

Hi Phil

Thanks for your reply. Can I trouble you for a reference with lab results

showing that T does not alter during the day? The blood testing is of

particular interest and I have not found a published paper yet with results.

I know others have asked about exercise and T levels and I have just found

this 2001 paper - abstract enclosed:

Abstract:

Abstract Circadian rhythms of serum testosterone concentrations in men have

been shown, in general, to be highest in the morning and lowest in the

evening. Thus, the purpose of this investigation was to determine the

effects of acute resistance exercise upon the waking circadian rhythm of

salivary testosterone over 2 days (with or without resistance exercise). The

subjects included ten resistance-trained men (with at least 1 year of

lifting experience) with the following characteristics [mean (SD)]: age 21.6

(1.1) years; height 177.8 (9.5) cm; body mass 80.5 (11.5) kg; percent body

fat 7.9 (1.7)%. A matched, randomized, crossover study design was used such

that each subject was tested under both the resistance exercise and control

(no exercise) conditions. The resistance exercise protocol consisted of ten

exercises performed for three sets of ten repetitions maximum with 2 min of

rest between sets. Saliva sample 1 was collected at 0615 hours and

resistance exercise began immediately afterwards at approximately 0620

hours, and sample 2 was collected at 0700 hours, which corresponded

approximately to a mid-exercise (or control) time point. Saliva samples were

then obtained every hour on the hour from 0800 hours until 2200 hours. No

significant differences were observed between the exercise and resting

conditions for salivary testosterone, with the exception of a significant

decrease at 0700 hours during the resistance exercise protocol. The results

of this investigation indicate that resistance exercise does not affect the

circadian pattern of salivary testosterone secretion over a 16-h waking

period in resistance-trained men.

http://www.springerlink.com/app/home/contribution.asp?wasp=f2f214d0b8a4477a81d65\

2c4a42329ce & referrer=parent & backto=issue,3,27;journal,47,98;linkingpublicationre\

sults,1:100513,1

Best wishes

_________________________________________

Randle

_________________________________________

Re: Testing

>

>

>> How long before the test should you not apply AG? I understand it is

>> in your system for 24 hours. I'm scheduled to be tested at 4:00 pm, I

>> usually apply in the morning. If I don't apply the morning of the

>> test, it will have been more than 24 hours. -Dan

>>

>>

>>

>>> As for testing my levels, I found anytest.com in Atlanta. They will

>>> run tests on a cash basis without Doc's orders. So I spent 7 hrs. in

>>> the car and $60 to find out I was at 450 ng/dl using 5 gram / day.

>>> That's when I went up to 7.5 grams. As Phil said, don't rub AG on

>>> your arms when you get tested - that showed me at 680 ng/dl on the

>>> same 5 gram/day schedule.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

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Randle <peter_randle@...> wrote:Thanks, Brad. I have only taken

Testogel but will try and find an online URL

to Androgel.

Regards,

_________________________________________

Randle

_________________________________________

Re: Testing

>

>> Addendum:

>>

>> Hi Phil

>>

>> I have found one possible paper but have to get permission to read

> online.

>>

>> of Three Different Doses of a New Formulation of Oral Testosterone

>> Undecanoate, Andriol Testocaps

>> NS Houwing, F Maris, PG Schnabel, WM Bagchus - Pharmacotherapy -

>> extenza-eps.com, 2003

>> ... area under the serum concentration-time curve from 0 ... dose

> (at 12

>> hrs; Figure 2).

>> Testosterone undecanoate returned to baseline levels just before ...

>> ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

>> _________________________________________

>> Randle

>> _________________________________________

>

>

>

>

> Well, you can look at Figures 1 & 2 in the Androgel prescribing info.

> Brad

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Totally agree- Eugonadal men have a circadian rhythm to their

testosterone (production) levels. Men on HRT do not, to speak of.

The relevant factor when predicting testosterone levels for men on HRT

is the half life of the particular testosterone preparation being used.

Dano

> >>> As for testing my levels, I found anytest.com in Atlanta. They will

> >>> run tests on a cash basis without Doc's orders. So I spent 7

hrs. in

> >>> the car and $60 to find out I was at 450 ng/dl using 5 gram / day.

> >>> That's when I went up to 7.5 grams. As Phil said, don't rub AG on

> >>> your arms when you get tested - that showed me at 680 ng/dl on the

> >>> same 5 gram/day schedule.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

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Guest guest

Thanks to all for the replys, I will apply it in the morning and

have the test at 4. I don't ever put the AG that low on my arm

(don't want it getting on my 2 yr old daughter) so I shouldn't have

to worry about it being where the needle goes. -Dan

> > >>> As for testing my levels, I found anytest.com in Atlanta.

They will

> > >>> run tests on a cash basis without Doc's orders. So I spent 7

> hrs. in

> > >>> the car and $60 to find out I was at 450 ng/dl using 5

gram / day.

> > >>> That's when I went up to 7.5 grams. As Phil said, don't rub

AG on

> > >>> your arms when you get tested - that showed me at 680 ng/dl

on the

> > >>> same 5 gram/day schedule.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

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Guest guest

Agreed Dano.

_________________________________________

Randle

_________________________________________

Re: Testing

> Totally agree- Eugonadal men have a circadian rhythm to their

> testosterone (production) levels. Men on HRT do not, to speak of.

> The relevant factor when predicting testosterone levels for men on HRT

> is the half life of the particular testosterone preparation being used.

>

> Dano

>

>

>> >>> As for testing my levels, I found anytest.com in Atlanta. They will

>> >>> run tests on a cash basis without Doc's orders. So I spent 7

> hrs. in

>> >>> the car and $60 to find out I was at 450 ng/dl using 5 gram / day.

>> >>> That's when I went up to 7.5 grams. As Phil said, don't rub AG on

>> >>> your arms when you get tested - that showed me at 680 ng/dl on the

>> >>> same 5 gram/day schedule.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

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  • 3 months later...

is it working

Darin <Bry8825@...> wrote:hello Im tryong to see if I have my email

configured right new computer can someone send me a meesage to see if it is

working

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just got my son's hair test done and it was on there.

and ann <kevmac1994@...> wrote:

Hi there,

Was just wondering what test is it that is run to show amounts of magnesium,

calcium and all the rest? Thanks ;)

ann

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  • 2 weeks later...

Let me tell you, I'm not nearly always calm. When finally got

tested and considered AS, after 4 years in school with teachers always

telling me how wierd my child was, I was actually relieved. Now there

was a reason for his behavior, picking at his hands so that he left

sores, not wanting to do school work, his stuttering, etc. That's

when the help with school started and the help with the right meds

started. At his special school he's in now, all the kids have

problems. There is a parent group every week. I've learned there

that no matter how bad I think it is at my house, someone always has a

worse time of it.

It is still awkward for me around other people, even family. My

parents are great. But you always wonder about in-laws and the

cousins. Are they thinking my child is strange? Are their children

better than mine? I love disprately, and always want to protect

him from someone who looks down on him. had a total meltdown at

my niece's wedding last year (at the reception). We had to quick get

him out of there. Sometimes you get embarrassed or a nervous wreck..

I have had my share of anxiety attacks......I just try to stay laid

back as much as I can.

The place is in now for school is filled with therapists, case

managers and psychologists. It is defintely easier to talk to them

because at least they know pretty much about AS. Regular school, at

least our middle school, did not, and did not seemed interested in

educating themselves. Just try to stay laid back as much as possible

and get through the testing. If they discover new things with him,

there's always the chance he get receive better help. Take a deep

breath! Hang in there! (Remind me to take my own advice when

goes back to regular school) LOL -Sara

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Mommy guilt. We all have it :)

( ) Testing

Some times I just want to scream! I'm so sick of all the tests,and

people who meet my son for 45 min. who think they have him all figured

out.GIVE ME A BREAK! When I get away from all of that and just get on

with life I don't think of as being any different than anyone

else.Unique yes, but he's a child just like everyone else who likes to

play learn and have fun, why can't they just leave him alone.

So many of you seem so calm about all of this, how do you get there?

I just feel like there picking my kid apart and it eats away at me.

Sharon

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Hello,

My son 8 AS was in Early interventions since 18months old. It helped a lot. the

diagnose helped him get servicers he needs in school. I feel my son is also

unique, and very happy. After the diagnose, I then tried to learn as much as I

can about AS (still learning) so I can help teach him. It was challenging

finding the doctors that know about AS to teach me about it so I can help my

son. As far as raising him. I don't treat him like he has AS. (He is high

functioning) we have a therapist that helps alot. He sees him each week. He

teaches him social skills at a playground. I got him in a lot of activities, so

he is always around children. I correct his inappropriate behaviors

immediately, then I show him the right way to act. this worked very well. His

therapist helped explain to him what Aspergers is. He understands a lot. He is

in a great school which also helped us a lot. there are a lot of concerns when

playing with other children, because he annoys them, but

still can hold their friendship. when he (gets stuck) perseverating. It's

hard for others that are with him. He becomes to silly and annoying. When my

son gets stuck and perseverates. I tell him. you can only repeat that 3 times.

than, you have to STOP. Like you, I treat him like a child, (different types of

correction, than a child without AS) but he does everything a child without AS

will do...I also taught him, sometimes you have to teach other people that don't

understand AS. like in school, when the teacher yells and says. do your work.

you have to tell the teacher, I didn't understand what you said, please explain

it to me. This also works well. because he is so literal. some instructions,

or examples the teacher will give, would be like speaking a foreign language to

my son. (he will be lost and do nothing, or act silly). I was also sick of all

the test too: (It does slow down). We seen a lot of doctors, lots of testings.

Traveling from 1 to 4 hours each

way to get to them. But, in the long run, the recommendations & strategies:

All the evaluations (tests) help so very much. Now, I'm so glad we did them, .

I'm sure it's not over. (the doctors & testings.) but for now, we have a break.

You sound like your doing a great job for your child. Yes, he is a child too.

How old is he? When you find the right doctor that you are comfortable with.

that helps a lot. support groups help too. Good luck to you all.Mommy guilt.

We all have it :)

( ) Testing

Some times I just want to scream! I'm so sick of all the tests,and

people who meet my son for 45 min. who think they have him all figured

out.GIVE ME A BREAK! When I get away from all of that and just get on

with life I don't think of as being any different than anyone

else.Unique yes, but he's a child just like everyone else who likes to

play learn and have fun, why can't they just leave him alone.

So many of you seem so calm about all of this, how do you get there?

I just feel like there picking my kid apart and it eats away at me.

Sharon

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just want you to know that I HATED it myself. I took a year off,

because I was SO frustrated!

A lot of us have been there.

I think the best thing for me, was just the neuropsychological

testing with someone that was very familiar with AS. She still had a

little extra for me to do, but I got the major diagnosis, which is

what I needed to get the 'rest' of the work done.

I also really educated myself on AS, so that I could understand what

I was talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hang in there. I think we all have been through this. You are not

alone! Just going through a stage we hate, too!

No one that sees my child for just a day, has him figured out. REAL

testing requires more extensive work and lots of feedback from the

parent!

You are so on track! You are right!

*smiles*

B

> Some times I just want to scream! I'm so sick of all the tests,and

> people who meet my son for 45 min. who think they have him all

figured

> out.GIVE ME A BREAK! When I get away from all of that and just get

on

> with life I don't think of as being any different than

anyone

> else.Unique yes, but he's a child just like everyone else who

likes to

> play learn and have fun, why can't they just leave him alone.

> So many of you seem so calm about all of this, how do you get

there?

> I just feel like there picking my kid apart and it eats away at me.

> Sharon

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activeswimming <activeswimming@...> wrote:

Some times I just want to scream! I'm so sick of all the tests,and

people who meet my son for 45 min. who think they have him all figured

out.GIVE ME A BREAK! When I get away from all of that and just get on

with life I don't think of as being any different than anyone

else.Unique yes, but he's a child just like everyone else who likes to

play learn and have fun, why can't they just leave him alone.

So many of you seem so calm about all of this, how do you get there?

I just feel like there picking my kid apart and it eats away at me.

Sharon

Honestly Sharon, I get upset whenever I have a meeting or evaluation to deal

with. It really stresses me out because I have to focus, for that time being,

on the problems so that we can make a good plan for them. And that is really

tough!! It seems like I can deal with the daily grind ok but having to speak

outloud and highlight things, it really takes it out of me. I had an IEP

meeting this morning for 2 hours and I have laid around all day just exhausted

from it. It sucks the life out of me. And I've been doing this a looooong

time. It never gets easy. So I try to just plan on down time after these

things so I can allow myself time to chill and take it easy. Then after I do

that, I make myself get back to business. Can't let it get me down too long

or I might not get back up!!

Roxanna

Always Remember You're Unique

Just Like Everyone Else

---------------------------------

for Good

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

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  • 4 weeks later...

wrote:

> Thanks to your advice I refrained from the alcohol this weekend. I

am just so depressed feeling as if there is nothing to look forward

to. As people we socialize through meals, and it seems I will never

be able to have the foods I enjoy.

==>I know how tough it is . Some of the foods you enjoy have

contributed to your poor health, and often you crave some foods

because you have candida, i.e. starches, grains, sugars, etc. The

food industry has also been very clever by including addictive

substances in foods so you will crave them. Good nutritious foods do

taste good but your taste buds need to be re-educated. My cravings

certainly changed. Now I crave a thick juicey beef steak with lots

of fats and veggies smothered in butter instead of sugars, grains,

etc.

>I still could not find any Celtic Salt that says the number of

minerals on the package. It just says it has many vital minerals. I

purchased Real Salt by Redmond. It shows 50 minerals it has in it.

Is that okay?

==>It will be okay .

>

> I had also told you that I tested positive for a food intolerance

to tomatoes and asked about the whole nightshade family. You asked

what testing I had done.

==>Many allergy tests are not conclusive, however if you feel better

not having tomatoes or others foods in the nightshade family don't

have them.

<snip>

>I realize now that I was not taking any antifungals before, and this

was the problem. I hope I am on the right track this time because I

have Nystatin, and I am eating garlic and coconut oil like crazy

along with following your diet and supplementing with probiotics, etc.

==>Good for you !

Bee

>

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Hi Bee,

Thanks to your advice I refrained from the alcohol this weekend. I

am

just so depressed feeling as if there is nothing to look forward to.

As people we socialize through meals, and it seems I will never be

able to have the foods I enjoy. I still could not find any Celtic

Salt

that says the number of minerals on the package. It just says it has

many vital minerals. I purchased Real Salt by Redmond. It shows 50

minerals it has in it. Is that okay?

I had also told you that I tested positive for a food intolerance to

tomatoes and asked about the whole nightshade family. You asked what

testing I had done.

Here is an overview of the testing I have had done over the past

year.

1. Great Smokies Intestinal Permeablility- All recoveries

(lactulose,

mannitol and the lactulose/mannitol ratio) were in the normal level.

(stool sample)

2.Metametrix IgG1 & 4 food antibodies (90 Antigens)- All of the foods

fell in the negative range except for egg yolk and egg white which

was

only 235 and 324 repectively- both are in the mild range. (blood draw)

3.Immunolabs-IgG Food sensitivity test 115 foods- I tested for

an

intolerance to wheat, corn, amarynth, baker's and brewer's yeast,

tomatoes, and sesame. (blood draw)

4. Immunolabs Candida Test0- I tested negative for systemic candida

and

the anti gliadin and positive in the mild range for candida. I also

tested positive a year ago for the candida. At that time is when I

started the strict diet I told you about. I also took Candigone and

Probiotics, and Fibersmart. I am not sure I got rid of it that time

because I started feeling badly this summer which is why I retested.

I

realize now that I was not taking any antifungals before, and this

was

the problem. I hope I am on the right track this time because I have

Nystatin, and I am eating garlic and coconut oil like crazy along

with

following your diet and supplementing with probiotics, etc.

--- End forwarded message ---

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I'm using Real Salt by Redmond too since my health food store never has

Celtic in stock. I'm going to order Himalayan salt tho which should be safer

than sea salt since our ocean waters are so polluted these days.

Note: The diet itself plus the candida symptoms are depressing at first

having to abstain from so many things we crave. But it does get better as

the cravings reduce, I've found. Also the diet itself helps with easing

depression, (except for die-off reactions days). I've been taking vitamin D

for depression & it's helping also as would cod liver oil.

It's difficult socially tho, when dining with others, yes, when it's far

easier to cheat. We're all in the same boat in this group tho, which is why

it's a support group.

Caroline

From: " shelleypaul1 "

> Thanks to your advice I refrained from the alcohol this weekend. I am

> just so depressed feeling as if there is nothing to look forward to. As

> people we socialize through meals, and it seems I will never be

> able to have the foods I enjoy. I still could not find any Celtic Salt

> that says the number of minerals on the package. It just says it has many

> vital minerals. I purchased Real Salt by Redmond. It shows 50 minerals

> it has in it. Is that okay?

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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, shelleypaul1 wrote:

>

>

> Hi Bee,

>

> Thanks to your advice I refrained from the alcohol this weekend. I

> am

> just so depressed feeling as if there is nothing to look forward to.

As a note, alcohol burns up vitamin B1 in the system. Lack of vitamin B1

is a contributor to feeling depressed. So alcohol can make one feel even

more depressed.

It is really a vicious circle with some people. They feel depressed,

drink alcohol, burn up their vitamin B1 and other vitamins, feel more

depressed, drink more alcohol, on and on, on a downward skid.

Zack

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wrote:

> Thanks to your advice I refrained from the alcohol this weekend. I

> am > just so depressed feeling as if there is nothing to look

forward to.

==>Way to go girl! That's very well done. , there is so much

more to life than food and drinks. There's lots of great experiences

to look forward to my friend.

> As people we socialize through meals, and it seems I will never be

> able to have the foods I enjoy. I still could not find any Celtic

> Salt that says the number of minerals on the package. It just

says it has > many vital minerals. I purchased Real Salt by

Redmond. It shows 50 > minerals it has in it. Is that okay?

==>Yes, it is okay. Not ideal, but okay and much better than table

salt.

>

> I had also told you that I tested positive for a food intolerance

to > tomatoes and asked about the whole nightshade family.

==>I don't think about allergies to good foods like a lot of others

do because good foods cause healing reactions just like toxins do.

I'm knowledgeable about food family groups and how a person is

supposed to be allergic to the whole family, but I don't necessarily

agree. It is best to experiment and find out for yourself.

<snip>

> I realize now that I was not taking any antifungals before, and

this was the problem. I hope I am on the right track this time

because I have Nystatin, and I am eating garlic and coconut oil like

crazy along with following your diet and supplementing with

probiotics, etc.

==>That's good . Don't forget to have enough good fats - some

people require more than 200 grams per day - see the Candida Diet

folder on how to calculate your ratios of proteins to fats to carbs.

Also you need Omega 3 from cod liver oil or fish oils - see my

article for a description, and Vitamin E. Check out the supplement

section of my main article. Eventually you should increase your

coconut oil to 3.5 tablespoons per day or even more.

Bee

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  • 4 months later...

My take is, you would probably be more likely to have a positive western blot

than if you were untreated, since hopefully there will be fewer spirochetes and

therefore more antibodies that have not attached themselves to the little

buggars. And your CD-57 may have begun to rise, assuming it was depressed.

Good luck. Hope you get some useful information.

" Culp Elliott, DPT " <blondetherapyak@...> wrote:

Well, My doc called to say she wants to test me for Lyme. However,

right now I am on Biaxin XL (antibiotic). Anybody know if this can

alter my results?

Thanks so much!

E.

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Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

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Depends on which type of Lyme test is being performed. If your doc uses a

Lyme urine antigen test (which is not believed to be the most accurate based

on what I've read), you will have to be off of Biaxin for 6 weeks before the

test can be performed.

Take care,

____________________

Well, My doc called to say she wants to test me for Lyme. However, right

now I am on Biaxin XL (antibiotic). Anybody know if this can alter my

results?

Thanks so much!

E.

My take is, you would probably be more likely to have a positive western

blot than if you were untreated, since hopefully there will be fewer

spirochetes and therefore more antibodies that have not attached themselves

to the little buggars. And your CD-57 may have begun to rise, assuming it

was depressed.

Good luck. Hope you get some useful information.

" Culp Elliott, DPT " <blondetherapyak@...> wrote:

Well, My doc called to say she wants to test me for Lyme. However, right

now I am on Biaxin XL (antibiotic). Anybody know if this can alter my

results?

Thanks so much!

E.

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Guest guest

I think for a western blot you would need to be off antibiotics for

several weeks before the test.

Kathy

>

> Well, My doc called to say she wants to test me for Lyme. However,

> right now I am on Biaxin XL (antibiotic). Anybody know if this can

> alter my results?

>

> Thanks so much!

>

> E.

>

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Guest guest

Not necesserily. At present I continue to test positive while taking

Ketek and Amox. I was even more strongly positive while on Doxy for

three weeks in Ocotber, 2 months after the multiple bite.

Lida

> >

> > Well, My doc called to say she wants to test me for Lyme.

However,

> > right now I am on Biaxin XL (antibiotic). Anybody know if this

can

> > alter my results?

> >

> > Thanks so much!

> >

> > E.

> >

>

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Guest guest

I think it's the opposite. Antibodies bound to bacteria are missed in the WB.

As long as the bacteria load is high, antibody counts are likely to be lower.

Antibiotics kill the bacteria, and fewer bacteria mean more antibodies free in

the blood, waiting to be sucked out and sent to the lab. :)

Kathy <aiden424@...> wrote:

I think for a western blot you would need to be off antibiotics for

several weeks before the test.

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Brings words and photos together (easily) with

PhotoMail - it's free and works with .

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