ASBS is for EVERYONE once upon a time

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/5/02 11:51:36 PM, Graduate-OSSG writes:

<< You must also remember that ASBS is for members and professionals

> only....the only way a non-member can attend now is for them to be

specially

> sponsored by a member.... >>

Just two cent's worth....

.....which I might add sponsorship is easy if you have a good relationship

with your doc and have an area of expertise in medicine, nutrition, supps,

psych, or legal and insurance...and ASBS can use more of all of these, the

more opinions the better. The docs I've spoken to are happy to recommend

people as above. There are however some members of ASBS who try not to admit

it publicly, but they see 'patients' as troublesome, intrusive, as ignorant,

and THEY lobby to close ASBS tighter and tighter while still hawking their

wares to the same population they want to close out of the Q and A, and input

possibilities at ASBS. But I hear through the grapevine that CBS " 60

Minutes " has an interest in a look-see at the wls racket and the

organizations and professionals from all backgrounds that sponsor various

groups, and are involved in them, and that should be interesting. Especially

if they send in someone who is wired.

I've watched ASBS' formation from almost the beginning. It seems to have been

increasingly built on a very old paradigm mainly constructed by those who

traditionally most benefit from that paradigm. Just like any other group,

ASBS is made up of honorable people, but also some appear to many others to

be intensely self-interested only in positioning themselves, in being seen as

" the only expert " in whatever, in order to hype their services and to " be the

only one... " a futile endeavor if ever there was one.

I have been privy to quite a few conversations about various members, and

member-groups, and there is not what you would call a great over-arching

respect by everyone for everyone. In fact, quite a bit of disrespect and

suspicion and jealousy about this one and that one. I'm not going to name

names. Just suffice it to say that the tone of arrogance by some who want to

put forth that ASBS is some sort of elite organization, is often quite

'fragrant. " It is interesting too to consider that bariatric surgeons are not

exactly looked up to by other kinds of surgeons. It makes me tired to think

about all the hierarchies that go on around all this.

so there you go.

Doc Carolyn, I agree with you on your comments about your ASBS experience.

But I think too that those who wish to understand anecdotal patient info and

not just be 'cut-happy, " are men and women who are medical healers rather

than just medical mechanics. You know first-hand that there is a huge

difference. Mechanical is a skill. And an useful one, obviously, but it is

not the same as being a visionary, a gifted medical person with a long view.

The real heroes and heroines as far as I am concerned are not surgeons (even

though I know many have gratitude to their own personal docs, and that's

certainly understandable) and for sure DEFINITELY NOT most of the others

involved in all this who stand to make money off the backs of those who are

so ill, whether a little money or a lot, it all adds up. But, to my sights,

it is the anesthesiologists who are the real heroes and heroines, who held

your precious life in their hands, who saw you through, you in your

incredibly vulnerable state, you in your incredible ill health, they held you

alive and brought you through— they are the ones who took the biggest risk, (

remember all the seminars at med conventions about patient-risk amangement--I

know it sounds like " wildlife management, " and it is far colder, believe me)

next to YOU who took the main risk, YOU who flogged and whacked your way

through the obstacles, who PAID and PAID AND PAID in so many ways to get what

is your RIGHT from the very beginning— decent health care, decent options.

If anyone deserves praise and gratitude who never is thanked, it is the

anesthesiologists, and the patients themselves. ALL the people here,

ESPECIALLY all those who contribute to the well being of the POST-OPS and who

do it from the heart, those are the ones I want on my lifeboat. And ,

dear , who pays out of his own pocket To keep the freeking

advertisements for latest " Here let me help you while picking your pocket

telemarketing at home while learning to be a bailbondsman " ads off our list.

What a guy. Many of us have offered to pay him to defray that cost, and he

just declines. Not to mention the HOURS he gives without pay to us all, all

the time, day in and day out. There are others on this list who give SO MUCH.

Doc Carolyn, her medical insights are given so generously, , telling

about what she finds works and does not work, so freely given, others here,

MANY OTHERS, (please forgive me for not listing you all by name, but know you

are dear to my heart, it's just that as I started thinking about it , I would

have a list several pages long) give of their professional and personal

expertise so openly, so freely. I do not know if everyone realizes what a

treasure we have for most by most, here.

Doc Ceep,

psychoanalyst, clinician, for 32 years

(God gave me one little gift, but it was not the gift of knowing how to

spell, so please overlook any strange words. They are not foreign ones.)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/6/2002 8:18:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,

lacorona@... writes:

> And , dear , who pays out of his own pocket To keep the freeking

> advertisements for latest " Here let me help you while picking your pocket

> telemarketing at home while learning to be a bailbondsman " ads off our

> list.

> What a guy. Many of us have offered to pay him to defray that cost, and he

> just declines. Not to mention the HOURS he gives without pay to us all, all

>

> the time, day in and day out. There are others on this list who give SO

> MUCH.

> Doc Carolyn, her medical insights are given so generously, ,

> telling

> about what she finds works and does not work, so freely given, others here,

>

> MANY OTHERS, (please forgive me for not listing you all by name, but know

> you

> are dear to my heart, it's just that as I started thinking about it , I

> would

> have a list several pages long) give of their professional and personal

> expertise so openly, so freely. I do not know if everyone realizes what a

> treasure we have for most by most, here.

>

*********************************

Dear Ceep,

Once again, you are so right. Which also just gave me an idea. Forget

inviting the docs to this convention, but I think we should invite the media.

This would serve several purposes...

1) To get the word out that this lifesaver is available to the general

public and that insurance often will pay for it.

2) With 's permission, to give out the ObesityHelp.com website info for

those interested in researching WLS.

3) To show that longer-term post-ops ARE healthy.

4) To show the insurance companies AND politicians what health, success and

quality of life is really all about.

5) Probably most important of all, is to teach post-ops who don't have

access to or are just clueless about the resources on the net and how to care

for themselves (re: vitamins, protein, etc.), what to do to be and stay

healthy as a post-op.

Feel free to add your own thoughts...

in NJ

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/6/2002 8:18:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,

lacorona@... writes:

> And , dear , who pays out of his own pocket To keep the freeking

> advertisements for latest " Here let me help you while picking your pocket

> telemarketing at home while learning to be a bailbondsman " ads off our

> list.

> What a guy. Many of us have offered to pay him to defray that cost, and he

> just declines. Not to mention the HOURS he gives without pay to us all, all

>

> the time, day in and day out. There are others on this list who give SO

> MUCH.

> Doc Carolyn, her medical insights are given so generously, ,

> telling

> about what she finds works and does not work, so freely given, others here,

>

> MANY OTHERS, (please forgive me for not listing you all by name, but know

> you

> are dear to my heart, it's just that as I started thinking about it , I

> would

> have a list several pages long) give of their professional and personal

> expertise so openly, so freely. I do not know if everyone realizes what a

> treasure we have for most by most, here.

>

*********************************

Dear Ceep,

Once again, you are so right. Which also just gave me an idea. Forget

inviting the docs to this convention, but I think we should invite the media.

This would serve several purposes...

1) To get the word out that this lifesaver is available to the general

public and that insurance often will pay for it.

2) With 's permission, to give out the ObesityHelp.com website info for

those interested in researching WLS.

3) To show that longer-term post-ops ARE healthy.

4) To show the insurance companies AND politicians what health, success and

quality of life is really all about.

5) Probably most important of all, is to teach post-ops who don't have

access to or are just clueless about the resources on the net and how to care

for themselves (re: vitamins, protein, etc.), what to do to be and stay

healthy as a post-op.

Feel free to add your own thoughts...

in NJ

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/6/2002 8:18:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,

lacorona@... writes:

> And , dear , who pays out of his own pocket To keep the freeking

> advertisements for latest " Here let me help you while picking your pocket

> telemarketing at home while learning to be a bailbondsman " ads off our

> list.

> What a guy. Many of us have offered to pay him to defray that cost, and he

> just declines. Not to mention the HOURS he gives without pay to us all, all

>

> the time, day in and day out. There are others on this list who give SO

> MUCH.

> Doc Carolyn, her medical insights are given so generously, ,

> telling

> about what she finds works and does not work, so freely given, others here,

>

> MANY OTHERS, (please forgive me for not listing you all by name, but know

> you

> are dear to my heart, it's just that as I started thinking about it , I

> would

> have a list several pages long) give of their professional and personal

> expertise so openly, so freely. I do not know if everyone realizes what a

> treasure we have for most by most, here.

>

*********************************

Dear Ceep,

Once again, you are so right. Which also just gave me an idea. Forget

inviting the docs to this convention, but I think we should invite the media.

This would serve several purposes...

1) To get the word out that this lifesaver is available to the general

public and that insurance often will pay for it.

2) With 's permission, to give out the ObesityHelp.com website info for

those interested in researching WLS.

3) To show that longer-term post-ops ARE healthy.

4) To show the insurance companies AND politicians what health, success and

quality of life is really all about.

5) Probably most important of all, is to teach post-ops who don't have

access to or are just clueless about the resources on the net and how to care

for themselves (re: vitamins, protein, etc.), what to do to be and stay

healthy as a post-op.

Feel free to add your own thoughts...

in NJ