Guest guest Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 Just to clarify, these legislations do only apply to government funded research, and do not in any way restict the private sector from working in cloning, right?? At 6/6/02 12:37 PM Thursday, you wrote: Hi all, A bipartisan group of Senators has written an unprecedented detailed set of rules for the cloning of cells which would still ban cloning humans in any form. Senators Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), and Kennedy (D-Mass.) have written extremely tight rules allowing the cloning of embryo-like entities (blastocysts) for research. These rules would NOT permit placing those entities into either a womb OR even an artificial womb thereby banning the possibility of cloning a human being. The only " body parts " to be cloned would be specific cells such as glial cells or dopamine producing neurons. This would stop any idea of cloning a human being, yet allow research on stem cells to repalce dead brain cells and insulin producing cells for diabetic patients. It would not stop the cloning of adult stem cells for cancer research either. The Brownback Bill however, could be used to ban existing cancer treatments as they do grow (clone) new cells from adult stem cells for existing cancer treatments. It is important that your Senators hear from you on these Bills. If neither Bill passes - there will be NO Ban on cloning and people can clone babies. It is important that a Bill passes which has a reasonable compromise, the Feinstein Bill attemps to reach a compromise and still allow some medical research, BUT it DOES ban cloning a human being as well as banning the cloning of " body parts such as arms, legs and organs " . For details see: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2415-2002Jun5.html Take care, Bill Werre ---------------------------------------------- Senators' Bill Details Rules On Cloning Research By a Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, June 6, 2002; Page A03 An intensive effort by a bipartisan group of senators to craft detailed rules governing research on cloned human embryos is nearly complete and could be ready for a floor debate and vote within one to two weeks, sources involved in the process said yesterday. The new language spells out in unprecedented detail what scientists would -- and would not -- be allowed to do in the controversial field of human embryo cloning research. It is being written primarily by Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Kennedy (D-Mass.), Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) and Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) -- all of whom favor allowing the research to go forward -- and is to be added to a bill that they and others introduced last month. By including a raft of specific scientific and ethical restrictions in the bill, the senators hope to garner the last votes they need to gain passage, Feinstein said in an interview. But opponents renewed their pledge yesterday to fight for an alternative bill, introduced by Sens. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and Landrieu (D-La.), that would outlaw all research involving cloned human embryos. Both the Feinstein-Kennedy bill and the Brownback-Landrieu bill would ban " reproductive cloning, " the creation of cloned babies. At issue is whether scientists should be allowed to create human embryos or embryo-like entities for research. Proponents of the research say it could lead to cures for a range of ailments. Opponents say that it is unethical to create human embryos just to destroy them again, and that similar research could be done on adult cells. Recent head counts suggest that both bills are short of the 60-vote majority that probably will be needed to gain passage. That has led some to fear that neither will pass, leaving the nation without the one thing both sides agree on: a ban on reproductive cloning. The recent effort by Feinstein and others to come up with wording to reassure Senate fence-sitters includes a strict limit on how old a cloned embryo could become before requiring that it be destroyed. Although other countries have set that limit at 14 days, Hatch is pushing for 12, to make the U.S. standard the toughest in the world, sources said. The reworded bill also would require the General Accounting Office to review the effectiveness of the legislation after one year, and have the Institute of Medicine review the field after five years. It also would describe strict ethical and scientific reviews that would be required of any proposed embryo cloning research. And it would set up protections for women whose eggs might be used for the research, Feinstein and others said, similar to the protections already in place regarding the use of aborted human fetal tissue in research. " Our bill would very precisely ban human cloning, " while maintaining " a potentially enormously rewarding area of research, " Feinstein said. Doerflinger of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, offered a different view. " Efforts to more tightly regulate embryo cloning only end up with the government more and more directly involved in requiring their destruction, " he said. " That does not solve the problem at all. " © 2002 The Washington Post Company If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may unsubscribe by sending a blank email to shydrager-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 Just to clarify, these legislations do only apply to government funded research, and do not in any way restict the private sector from working in cloning, right?? At 6/6/02 12:37 PM Thursday, you wrote: Hi all, A bipartisan group of Senators has written an unprecedented detailed set of rules for the cloning of cells which would still ban cloning humans in any form. Senators Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), and Kennedy (D-Mass.) have written extremely tight rules allowing the cloning of embryo-like entities (blastocysts) for research. These rules would NOT permit placing those entities into either a womb OR even an artificial womb thereby banning the possibility of cloning a human being. The only " body parts " to be cloned would be specific cells such as glial cells or dopamine producing neurons. This would stop any idea of cloning a human being, yet allow research on stem cells to repalce dead brain cells and insulin producing cells for diabetic patients. It would not stop the cloning of adult stem cells for cancer research either. The Brownback Bill however, could be used to ban existing cancer treatments as they do grow (clone) new cells from adult stem cells for existing cancer treatments. It is important that your Senators hear from you on these Bills. If neither Bill passes - there will be NO Ban on cloning and people can clone babies. It is important that a Bill passes which has a reasonable compromise, the Feinstein Bill attemps to reach a compromise and still allow some medical research, BUT it DOES ban cloning a human being as well as banning the cloning of " body parts such as arms, legs and organs " . For details see: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2415-2002Jun5.html Take care, Bill Werre ---------------------------------------------- Senators' Bill Details Rules On Cloning Research By a Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, June 6, 2002; Page A03 An intensive effort by a bipartisan group of senators to craft detailed rules governing research on cloned human embryos is nearly complete and could be ready for a floor debate and vote within one to two weeks, sources involved in the process said yesterday. The new language spells out in unprecedented detail what scientists would -- and would not -- be allowed to do in the controversial field of human embryo cloning research. It is being written primarily by Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Kennedy (D-Mass.), Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) and Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) -- all of whom favor allowing the research to go forward -- and is to be added to a bill that they and others introduced last month. By including a raft of specific scientific and ethical restrictions in the bill, the senators hope to garner the last votes they need to gain passage, Feinstein said in an interview. But opponents renewed their pledge yesterday to fight for an alternative bill, introduced by Sens. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and Landrieu (D-La.), that would outlaw all research involving cloned human embryos. Both the Feinstein-Kennedy bill and the Brownback-Landrieu bill would ban " reproductive cloning, " the creation of cloned babies. At issue is whether scientists should be allowed to create human embryos or embryo-like entities for research. Proponents of the research say it could lead to cures for a range of ailments. Opponents say that it is unethical to create human embryos just to destroy them again, and that similar research could be done on adult cells. Recent head counts suggest that both bills are short of the 60-vote majority that probably will be needed to gain passage. That has led some to fear that neither will pass, leaving the nation without the one thing both sides agree on: a ban on reproductive cloning. The recent effort by Feinstein and others to come up with wording to reassure Senate fence-sitters includes a strict limit on how old a cloned embryo could become before requiring that it be destroyed. Although other countries have set that limit at 14 days, Hatch is pushing for 12, to make the U.S. standard the toughest in the world, sources said. The reworded bill also would require the General Accounting Office to review the effectiveness of the legislation after one year, and have the Institute of Medicine review the field after five years. It also would describe strict ethical and scientific reviews that would be required of any proposed embryo cloning research. And it would set up protections for women whose eggs might be used for the research, Feinstein and others said, similar to the protections already in place regarding the use of aborted human fetal tissue in research. " Our bill would very precisely ban human cloning, " while maintaining " a potentially enormously rewarding area of research, " Feinstein said. Doerflinger of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, offered a different view. " Efforts to more tightly regulate embryo cloning only end up with the government more and more directly involved in requiring their destruction, " he said. " That does not solve the problem at all. " © 2002 The Washington Post Company If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may unsubscribe by sending a blank email to shydrager-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 Just to clarify, these legislations do only apply to government funded research, and do not in any way restict the private sector from working in cloning, right?? At 6/6/02 12:37 PM Thursday, you wrote: Hi all, A bipartisan group of Senators has written an unprecedented detailed set of rules for the cloning of cells which would still ban cloning humans in any form. Senators Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), and Kennedy (D-Mass.) have written extremely tight rules allowing the cloning of embryo-like entities (blastocysts) for research. These rules would NOT permit placing those entities into either a womb OR even an artificial womb thereby banning the possibility of cloning a human being. The only " body parts " to be cloned would be specific cells such as glial cells or dopamine producing neurons. This would stop any idea of cloning a human being, yet allow research on stem cells to repalce dead brain cells and insulin producing cells for diabetic patients. It would not stop the cloning of adult stem cells for cancer research either. The Brownback Bill however, could be used to ban existing cancer treatments as they do grow (clone) new cells from adult stem cells for existing cancer treatments. It is important that your Senators hear from you on these Bills. If neither Bill passes - there will be NO Ban on cloning and people can clone babies. It is important that a Bill passes which has a reasonable compromise, the Feinstein Bill attemps to reach a compromise and still allow some medical research, BUT it DOES ban cloning a human being as well as banning the cloning of " body parts such as arms, legs and organs " . For details see: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2415-2002Jun5.html Take care, Bill Werre ---------------------------------------------- Senators' Bill Details Rules On Cloning Research By a Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, June 6, 2002; Page A03 An intensive effort by a bipartisan group of senators to craft detailed rules governing research on cloned human embryos is nearly complete and could be ready for a floor debate and vote within one to two weeks, sources involved in the process said yesterday. The new language spells out in unprecedented detail what scientists would -- and would not -- be allowed to do in the controversial field of human embryo cloning research. It is being written primarily by Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Kennedy (D-Mass.), Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) and Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) -- all of whom favor allowing the research to go forward -- and is to be added to a bill that they and others introduced last month. By including a raft of specific scientific and ethical restrictions in the bill, the senators hope to garner the last votes they need to gain passage, Feinstein said in an interview. But opponents renewed their pledge yesterday to fight for an alternative bill, introduced by Sens. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and Landrieu (D-La.), that would outlaw all research involving cloned human embryos. Both the Feinstein-Kennedy bill and the Brownback-Landrieu bill would ban " reproductive cloning, " the creation of cloned babies. At issue is whether scientists should be allowed to create human embryos or embryo-like entities for research. Proponents of the research say it could lead to cures for a range of ailments. Opponents say that it is unethical to create human embryos just to destroy them again, and that similar research could be done on adult cells. Recent head counts suggest that both bills are short of the 60-vote majority that probably will be needed to gain passage. That has led some to fear that neither will pass, leaving the nation without the one thing both sides agree on: a ban on reproductive cloning. The recent effort by Feinstein and others to come up with wording to reassure Senate fence-sitters includes a strict limit on how old a cloned embryo could become before requiring that it be destroyed. Although other countries have set that limit at 14 days, Hatch is pushing for 12, to make the U.S. standard the toughest in the world, sources said. The reworded bill also would require the General Accounting Office to review the effectiveness of the legislation after one year, and have the Institute of Medicine review the field after five years. It also would describe strict ethical and scientific reviews that would be required of any proposed embryo cloning research. And it would set up protections for women whose eggs might be used for the research, Feinstein and others said, similar to the protections already in place regarding the use of aborted human fetal tissue in research. " Our bill would very precisely ban human cloning, " while maintaining " a potentially enormously rewarding area of research, " Feinstein said. Doerflinger of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, offered a different view. " Efforts to more tightly regulate embryo cloning only end up with the government more and more directly involved in requiring their destruction, " he said. " That does not solve the problem at all. " © 2002 The Washington Post Company If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may unsubscribe by sending a blank email to shydrager-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 Aletta, WRONG! In the USA they are trying to ban ALL cloning for ANY reason. The way the Bill reads, I would be leary of having identical twins. Take care, Bill Werre Aletta Mes wrote: Just to clarify, these legislations do only apply to government funded research, and do not in any way restict the private sector from working in cloning, right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 Aletta, WRONG! In the USA they are trying to ban ALL cloning for ANY reason. The way the Bill reads, I would be leary of having identical twins. Take care, Bill Werre Aletta Mes wrote: Just to clarify, these legislations do only apply to government funded research, and do not in any way restict the private sector from working in cloning, right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 Aletta, WRONG! In the USA they are trying to ban ALL cloning for ANY reason. The way the Bill reads, I would be leary of having identical twins. Take care, Bill Werre Aletta Mes wrote: Just to clarify, these legislations do only apply to government funded research, and do not in any way restict the private sector from working in cloning, right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 Does that not betray the concept of a free market economy? If there is demand, and it is not public money, then what could be the problem? Usually when a system bans anything there is an underlying irrational fear. I'm a believer of a government representing people not parenting them. At 6/6/02 05:45 PM Thursday, you wrote: Aletta, WRONG! In the USA they are trying to ban ALL cloning for ANY reason. The way the Bill reads, I would be leary of having identical twins. Take care, Bill Werre aletta mes vancouver, bc Canada web: http://aletta.0catch.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 Does that not betray the concept of a free market economy? If there is demand, and it is not public money, then what could be the problem? Usually when a system bans anything there is an underlying irrational fear. I'm a believer of a government representing people not parenting them. At 6/6/02 05:45 PM Thursday, you wrote: Aletta, WRONG! In the USA they are trying to ban ALL cloning for ANY reason. The way the Bill reads, I would be leary of having identical twins. Take care, Bill Werre aletta mes vancouver, bc Canada web: http://aletta.0catch.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2002 Report Share Posted June 6, 2002 Does that not betray the concept of a free market economy? If there is demand, and it is not public money, then what could be the problem? Usually when a system bans anything there is an underlying irrational fear. I'm a believer of a government representing people not parenting them. At 6/6/02 05:45 PM Thursday, you wrote: Aletta, WRONG! In the USA they are trying to ban ALL cloning for ANY reason. The way the Bill reads, I would be leary of having identical twins. Take care, Bill Werre aletta mes vancouver, bc Canada web: http://aletta.0catch.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2002 Report Share Posted June 7, 2002 Greetings Bill & Aletta, Okay, I can't stay away forever ... Bill, I loved the quip "I would be leery of having identical twins." Perfect. Aletta, I wholeheartedly agree with "I'm a believer of a government representing people not parenting them." Exactly! Unfortunately, many now in the US government think we would be better off without some of those liberties. Pretty soon, if we don't watch it, we may be grounded. Permanently. Regards, =jbf= B. Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2002 Report Share Posted June 7, 2002 , ) There are more ways of "cloning" than scientific cloning. Hitler tried also to make everyone fit his way of thinking. Some of today's politicians seem to be trying to clone thoughts. Seems to me that Christians should be worried more about Christ's words like "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Than the definition of an embryo. With the amount of killing the USA is currently involved in around the world today, it seems strange that we spend so much time "saving" cells that are much smaller than a drop of blood; can NOT become a human legally; and will be destroyed in any case. Especially when those cells MAY be able to save 20 million Americans from diseases and disorders like MSA, PD, ALS, juvenile diabetes, cancer, etc. Some people always find a way to distort Christ's words into their way of human thinking. No one yet has shown me where Christ advocated war. Even when he was human. In spite of political rhetoric, the USA was founded on one principle - compromise. , lin and Jefferson had completely different different faiths, yet they all arranged the toughest compromise in history - the U.S. Declaration of Independence. And none of them served in the U.S. Army. If the three were alive today, I'll bet at least lin and Jefferson would support stem cell research - and ALL would support a national referendum on it rather than leaving it to Congress. Take care, Bill Werre ----------------------------------------------- " B. Fisher" wrote: Greetings Bill & Aletta, Okay, I can't stay away forever ... Bill, I loved the quip "I would be leery of having identical twins." Perfect. Aletta, I wholeheartedly agree with "I'm a believer of a government representing people not parenting them." Exactly! Unfortunately, many now in the US government think we would be better off without some of those liberties. Pretty soon, if we don't watch it, we may be grounded. Permanently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2002 Report Share Posted June 7, 2002 When my father moved out family to North America in 1964, it was precisely to escape the oppression of the nanny state, especailly as it pertains to scientific advancement (my father was a research chemist). Now I find myself in just exactly that kind of system, again. I read the writings of my favourits early 70's sociologists, and read the hopefullness of a new and more human consciousness. Lucky for them they died before it got to this point. Unless we get out of this social engineering (sticking to the median of the Bell curve), we and our offspring will suffer endless mediocrity with no end in sight. Society should always protect the exemplary, not dumb them down and silence them. How dare they legislate where thought can take mankind. At 6/7/02 08:27 AM Friday, you wrote: , ) There are more ways of " cloning " than scientific cloning. Hitler tried also to make everyone fit his way of thinking. Some of today's politicians seem to be trying to clone thoughts. Seems to me that Christians should be worried more about Christ's words like " Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. " Than the definition of an embryo. With the amount of killing the USA is currently involved in around the world today, it seems strange that we spend so much time " saving " cells that are much smaller than a drop of blood; can NOT become a human legally; and will be destroyed in any case. Especially when those cells MAY be able to save 20 million Americans from diseases and disorders like MSA, PD, ALS, juvenile diabetes, cancer, etc. Some people always find a way to distort Christ's words into their way of human thinking. No one yet has shown me where Christ advocated war. Even when he was human. In spite of political rhetoric, the USA was founded on one principle - compromise. , lin and Jefferson had completely different different faiths, yet they all arranged the toughest compromise in history - the U.S. Declaration of Independence. And none of them served in the U.S. Army. If the three were alive today, I'll bet at least lin and Jefferson would support stem cell research - and ALL would support a national referendum on it rather than leaving it to Congress. Take care, Bill Werre ----------------------------------------------- " B. Fisher " wrote: Greetings Bill & Aletta, Okay, I can't stay away forever ... Bill, I loved the quip " I would be leery of having identical twins. " Perfect. Aletta, I wholeheartedly agree with " I'm a believer of a government representing people not parenting them. " Exactly! Unfortunately, many now in the US government think we would be better off without some of those liberties. Pretty soon, if we don't watch it, we may be grounded. Permanently. If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may unsubscribe by sending a blank email to shydrager-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2002 Report Share Posted June 7, 2002 When my father moved out family to North America in 1964, it was precisely to escape the oppression of the nanny state, especailly as it pertains to scientific advancement (my father was a research chemist). Now I find myself in just exactly that kind of system, again. I read the writings of my favourits early 70's sociologists, and read the hopefullness of a new and more human consciousness. Lucky for them they died before it got to this point. Unless we get out of this social engineering (sticking to the median of the Bell curve), we and our offspring will suffer endless mediocrity with no end in sight. Society should always protect the exemplary, not dumb them down and silence them. How dare they legislate where thought can take mankind. At 6/7/02 08:27 AM Friday, you wrote: , ) There are more ways of " cloning " than scientific cloning. Hitler tried also to make everyone fit his way of thinking. Some of today's politicians seem to be trying to clone thoughts. Seems to me that Christians should be worried more about Christ's words like " Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. " Than the definition of an embryo. With the amount of killing the USA is currently involved in around the world today, it seems strange that we spend so much time " saving " cells that are much smaller than a drop of blood; can NOT become a human legally; and will be destroyed in any case. Especially when those cells MAY be able to save 20 million Americans from diseases and disorders like MSA, PD, ALS, juvenile diabetes, cancer, etc. Some people always find a way to distort Christ's words into their way of human thinking. No one yet has shown me where Christ advocated war. Even when he was human. In spite of political rhetoric, the USA was founded on one principle - compromise. , lin and Jefferson had completely different different faiths, yet they all arranged the toughest compromise in history - the U.S. Declaration of Independence. And none of them served in the U.S. Army. If the three were alive today, I'll bet at least lin and Jefferson would support stem cell research - and ALL would support a national referendum on it rather than leaving it to Congress. Take care, Bill Werre ----------------------------------------------- " B. Fisher " wrote: Greetings Bill & Aletta, Okay, I can't stay away forever ... Bill, I loved the quip " I would be leery of having identical twins. " Perfect. Aletta, I wholeheartedly agree with " I'm a believer of a government representing people not parenting them. " Exactly! Unfortunately, many now in the US government think we would be better off without some of those liberties. Pretty soon, if we don't watch it, we may be grounded. Permanently. If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may unsubscribe by sending a blank email to shydrager-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2002 Report Share Posted June 7, 2002 When my father moved out family to North America in 1964, it was precisely to escape the oppression of the nanny state, especailly as it pertains to scientific advancement (my father was a research chemist). Now I find myself in just exactly that kind of system, again. I read the writings of my favourits early 70's sociologists, and read the hopefullness of a new and more human consciousness. Lucky for them they died before it got to this point. Unless we get out of this social engineering (sticking to the median of the Bell curve), we and our offspring will suffer endless mediocrity with no end in sight. Society should always protect the exemplary, not dumb them down and silence them. How dare they legislate where thought can take mankind. At 6/7/02 08:27 AM Friday, you wrote: , ) There are more ways of " cloning " than scientific cloning. Hitler tried also to make everyone fit his way of thinking. Some of today's politicians seem to be trying to clone thoughts. Seems to me that Christians should be worried more about Christ's words like " Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. " Than the definition of an embryo. With the amount of killing the USA is currently involved in around the world today, it seems strange that we spend so much time " saving " cells that are much smaller than a drop of blood; can NOT become a human legally; and will be destroyed in any case. Especially when those cells MAY be able to save 20 million Americans from diseases and disorders like MSA, PD, ALS, juvenile diabetes, cancer, etc. Some people always find a way to distort Christ's words into their way of human thinking. No one yet has shown me where Christ advocated war. Even when he was human. In spite of political rhetoric, the USA was founded on one principle - compromise. , lin and Jefferson had completely different different faiths, yet they all arranged the toughest compromise in history - the U.S. Declaration of Independence. And none of them served in the U.S. Army. If the three were alive today, I'll bet at least lin and Jefferson would support stem cell research - and ALL would support a national referendum on it rather than leaving it to Congress. Take care, Bill Werre ----------------------------------------------- " B. Fisher " wrote: Greetings Bill & Aletta, Okay, I can't stay away forever ... Bill, I loved the quip " I would be leery of having identical twins. " Perfect. Aletta, I wholeheartedly agree with " I'm a believer of a government representing people not parenting them. " Exactly! Unfortunately, many now in the US government think we would be better off without some of those liberties. Pretty soon, if we don't watch it, we may be grounded. Permanently. If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may unsubscribe by sending a blank email to shydrager-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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