Guest guest Posted June 9, 2002 Report Share Posted June 9, 2002 Tony, I have yet to see a web-site that has said you should not take syntheitic opiate painkillers like methadose, or skelaxin (which is a muscle relaxer) if you have MSA or have I seen any study relating to long-term use of synthetic opiate painkillers and MSA. I have looked and looked for one. I have not seen anything either that has said synthetic opiates are addictive. The only thing I have seen is that it said that opinions of them being addictive is unfounded. If you want to take pure heroin or cocaine, yes they are very addictive and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. I would suggest that you consult your doctor with this. He is the one with a medical degree and should have the knowledge to help you. Since a doctor is the only one who can perscribe them to you anyways. Upon your discussion with your doctor you should be the one to decide what you want to do. God bless, Belinda > Hey, All- > > Does anyone know of any studies relating to long-term use of > synthetic opiate painkillers and symptoms of MSA? > > Tony > in Boston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2002 Report Share Posted June 9, 2002 Tony, I have yet to see a web-site that has said you should not take syntheitic opiate painkillers like methadose, or skelaxin (which is a muscle relaxer) if you have MSA or have I seen any study relating to long-term use of synthetic opiate painkillers and MSA. I have looked and looked for one. I have not seen anything either that has said synthetic opiates are addictive. The only thing I have seen is that it said that opinions of them being addictive is unfounded. If you want to take pure heroin or cocaine, yes they are very addictive and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. I would suggest that you consult your doctor with this. He is the one with a medical degree and should have the knowledge to help you. Since a doctor is the only one who can perscribe them to you anyways. Upon your discussion with your doctor you should be the one to decide what you want to do. God bless, Belinda > Hey, All- > > Does anyone know of any studies relating to long-term use of > synthetic opiate painkillers and symptoms of MSA? > > Tony > in Boston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2002 Report Share Posted June 9, 2002 Addition = need and use of a substance to feel good, attain a euphoric state Dependence = need and use of a substance to feel and function better or well I worked in a methadone clinic. The reason for putting addicts on methadone rather than heroin had less to do with addiction then harm reduction. Harm reduction meaning; hygienic improvements through weaning addicts from using and sharing dirty needles; changing the supply of the substance from and illegal to a legal one; eventually it is hoped tha addict will want rehabilitation. Methadone (a synthetic), when not used for pain has almost the identical effect of heroin (the opiate), it does take a little more of the methadone. In a medical setting the synthetic vs. the opiate is simply preference, the likelyhood of addiction is the same. Cost factors may also decide which you might get (the opiate is usually cheaper because generic ones are available.) According to seasoned heroin addicts the high is the same on methadone, and their overall functioning is not improved, they do however, have a chance to get that high hygienically and without the life of crime usually attached to addiction, and in BC it is covered by Pharmacare. Many drugs other than opiates are addictive, when used irresponsibly. Ritalin is sold on the street, so is Dexedrine, most muscle relaxants, allergy medications (even the over the counter variety) and many others. Any addict can rattle off the entire list of what fetches a good price at the street corner. The pain an addict self-medicates is a psychological one. No amount of drugs will ever be enough until that is addressed. Psycholocgically healthy people taking prescribed drugs as directed by a physician run no risk of becoming addicted. Dependence is a different matter, we a most probably all dependent on something (try prying the neurontin from me). The human being, as an organism wants to feel well and capable, when our bodies fail us that dependence is part of our wish to survive and ought to be respected. I remember drinking rum on occasion because I was so desperate for sleep and an escape from the pain, it did not make me an alcoholic, once my doctor addressed the sleeplessness and pain with proper medication I no longer needed the rum (suppose that to was harm reduction. For myself I prefer my medications to have very long track records when it comes to efficacy and safety. Used as prescribed opiates are very safe, cheap and available. I like poppies in my garden, poppyseed in my cakes, and I don't get a buzz from the codeine, what I get is pain relief. When it ceases to work I will choose with my doctor another medication, it may be synthetic or not. I've yet to see a medication not cause any side effects, the choices should be made well-informed, and well monitored. It (taking opiates) does carry a lot of bad publicity (much of it generated by opposing pharmaceutical companies, and puritanical rabble rousers), doctors seem more comfortable prescribing the synthetics feeling they are less likely to be accused of causing addiction. In truth the misuse of drugs by people of all walks of life have caused doctors to feel this way, but responsibility lies with the user. Anorexics misuse diet medications and laxatives (still an addiction). If you are using the medication and it is effective, this is good. If it is not effective have your doctor find another. Pain medications should always stop when the source of pain clears up, chronic pain does not clear up and I've found nothing (nor has my doctor) to suggest long-term use is dangerous in cases of chronic debilitating pain, insomnia, narcolepsy etc. YOU DO HOWEVER CARRY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF USING DUE CAUTION. With regard to studies, any medication on the market and still in common use after 20-100 years has withstood the test of time. New medications seem very well at the beginning only to later prove dangerous (Phen-phen etc.) It would be so nice if everyone involved with persons in pain, would not make us feel like we are weak for taking certain medications. I wish they would just be happy with our improved function. At Sunday 6/9/02 08:43 PM, you wrote: Tony, I have yet to see a web-site that has said you should not take syntheitic opiate painkillers like methadose, or skelaxin (which is a muscle relaxer) if you have MSA or have I seen any study relating to long-term use of synthetic opiate painkillers and MSA. I have looked and looked for one. I have not seen anything either that has said synthetic opiates are addictive. The only thing I have seen is that it said that opinions of them being addictive is unfounded. If you want to take pure heroin or cocaine, yes they are very addictive and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. I would suggest that you consult your doctor with this. He is the one with a medical degree and should have the knowledge to help you. Since a doctor is the only one who can perscribe them to you anyways. Upon your discussion with your doctor you should be the one to decide what you want to do. God bless, Belinda > Hey, All- > > Does anyone know of any studies relating to long-term use of > synthetic opiate painkillers and symptoms of MSA? > > Tony > in Boston If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may unsubscribe by sending a blank email to shydrager-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 < > Belinda, Did you really mean to make me choke on my graham cracker and fall on the floor laughing??? What a concept..... a doctor who is traind to have the knowledge to know what he/she is doing... I love it. You must either be suffering from brain fog, delusions or sheer optimism this morning. Anyway, I know you were trying to be helpful and that this person appreciates that but off the record.... honey, don't you wish you could really believe the words you wrote? Thank you so much for being such a good friend that I can pick on you and you not take it seriously. I'm just really wound up this morning. Hope you have a wonderful day. Got the phone call. PET results are in. Just have to shower, dress and get to drive me to pick them up. I'm slowly working up to hysteria. You should be able to hear me all the way in GA. when I read my results because one way or another, the earth will move! LOL! Hugs and Warm fuzzies, Deborah _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Oh, so sorry.... I didn't mean for the last post to go to the group. Belinda and I just joke and tease each other and I was just picking on her. I do not mean to imply that the docs don't know what they are doing. There are a lot of really knowledgeable ones out there. Please help me to take my foot out of my mouth on this one. I'm just tired from the past 3 years of docs not being able to figure out what is wrong with me and the problems that I now have because of what I went through in December, January, February, March, April, and May. Again, your doctor is the best person to go to for guidance with your problems. List Members, Pleas forgive me for posting the last message. Deborah aka Tenacity _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Aletta-- (and All) Thanks for the detailed and informative response. I am also curious about longterm use of rx painkillers prior to dx of MSA -- I have acute lumbar scoliosis, which has been increasingly painful over the years, and, as with MSA, is degenerative and in my case not amenable to surgery.One of my thoughts is that this pain is interwtined with the MSA-related pain in muscles and joints in particular, and it's hard to disentangle them. Fosset injections with steroids every 9 wks help somewhat, prescribed drugs such as hydrocodone or oxycodone or meperidine help, but at best take the edge off. Standing for anything more than 10 minutes is awful (pain + weakness), &c. I'm interested in seeing if any work has been done on opiates as perhaps an enabling agent to destruction of dopamine producing cells. I really appreciate your thoughts. Tony PS to All: Have you had experience in dealing with pre-MSA/dx pain and use of synthetic opiates or other rx meds as painkillers? > > > Hey, All- > > > > > > Does anyone know of any studies relating to long-term use of > > > synthetic opiate painkillers and symptoms of MSA? > > > > > > Tony > > > in Boston > > > > > >If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may > >unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > > > >shydrager-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Tony, Rob had only one experience with synthetic opiates. He had a terrible skiing accident about 15 years ago --- broke his collar bone and ALL his ribs on his left side. He took high doses of percocet for about 3 weeks. But that's IT. No other use. Carol & Rob Lexington, MA --- swartzlloyd2 swartz-lloyd@...> wrote: > Aletta-- (and All) > > Thanks for the detailed and informative response. > > I am also curious about longterm use of rx > painkillers prior to dx > of MSA -- I have acute lumbar scoliosis, which has > been > increasingly painful over the years, and, as with > MSA, is > degenerative and in my case not amenable to > surgery.One of my > thoughts is that this pain is interwtined with the > MSA-related pain > in muscles and joints in particular, and it's hard > to disentangle > them. Fosset injections with steroids every 9 wks > help somewhat, > prescribed drugs such as hydrocodone or oxycodone or > meperidine help, > but at best take the edge off. Standing for anything > more than 10 > minutes is awful (pain + weakness), &c. I'm > interested in seeing if > any work has been done on opiates as perhaps an > enabling agent to > destruction of dopamine producing cells. I really > appreciate your > thoughts. > > Tony > > PS to All: > > Have you had experience in dealing with pre-MSA/dx > pain and use of > synthetic opiates or other rx meds as painkillers? > > > > > Addition = need and use of a substance to feel > good, attain a > euphoric state > > Dependence = need and use of a substance to feel > and function > better or well > > > > I worked in a methadone clinic. The reason for > putting addicts on > > methadone rather than heroin had less to do with > addiction then > harm > > reduction. Harm reduction meaning; hygienic > improvements through > weaning > > addicts from using and sharing dirty needles; > changing the supply > of the > > substance from and illegal to a legal one; > eventually it is hoped > tha > > addict will want rehabilitation. > > > > Methadone (a synthetic), when not used for pain > has almost the > identical > > effect of heroin (the opiate), it does take a > little more of the > > methadone. In a medical setting the synthetic vs. > the opiate is > simply > > preference, the likelyhood of addiction is the > same. Cost factors > may also > > decide which you might get (the opiate is usually > cheaper because > generic > > ones are available.) According to seasoned heroin > addicts the high > is the > > same on methadone, and their overall functioning > is not improved, > they do > > however, have a chance to get that high > hygienically and without > the life > > of crime usually attached to addiction, and in BC > it is covered by > Pharmacare. > > > > Many drugs other than opiates are addictive, when > used > irresponsibly. > > Ritalin is sold on the street, so is Dexedrine, > most muscle > relaxants, > > allergy medications (even the over the counter > variety) and many > > others. Any addict can rattle off the entire list > of what fetches > a good > > price at the street corner. The pain an addict > self-medicates is a > > psychological one. No amount of drugs will ever > be enough until > that is > > addressed. Psycholocgically healthy people taking > prescribed drugs > as > > directed by a physician run no risk of becoming > addicted. > > > > Dependence is a different matter, we a most > probably all dependent > on > > something (try prying the neurontin from me). The > human being, as > an > > organism wants to feel well and capable, when our > bodies fail us > that > > dependence is part of our wish to survive and > ought to be > respected. I > > remember drinking rum on occasion because I was so > desperate for > sleep and > > an escape from the pain, it did not make me an > alcoholic, once my > doctor > > addressed the sleeplessness and pain with proper > medication I no > longer > > needed the rum (suppose that to was harm > reduction. > > > > For myself I prefer my medications to have very > long track records > when it > > comes to efficacy and safety. Used as prescribed > opiates are very > safe, > > cheap and available. I like poppies in my garden, > poppyseed in my > cakes, > > and I don't get a buzz from the codeine, what I > get is pain > relief. When > > it ceases to work I will choose with my doctor > another medication, > it may > > be synthetic or not. I've yet to see a medication > not cause any > side > > effects, the choices should be made well-informed, > and well > monitored. It > > (taking opiates) does carry a lot of bad publicity > (much of it > generated by > > opposing pharmaceutical companies, and puritanical > rabble rousers), > doctors > > seem more comfortable prescribing the synthetics > feeling they are > less > > likely to be accused of causing addiction. In > truth the misuse of > drugs by > > people of all walks of life have caused doctors to > feel this way, > but > > responsibility lies with the user. Anorexics > misuse diet > medications and > > laxatives (still an addiction). > > > > If you are using the medication and it is > effective, this is good. > If it > > is not effective have your doctor find another. > Pain medications > should > > always stop when the source of pain clears up, > chronic pain does > not clear > > up and I've found nothing (nor has my doctor) to > suggest long-term > use is > > dangerous in cases of chronic debilitating pain, > insomnia, > narcolepsy > > etc. YOU DO HOWEVER CARRY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF > USING DUE CAUTION. > > > > With regard to studies, any medication on the > market and still in > common > > use after 20-100 years has withstood the test of > time. New > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Tony, Rob had only one experience with synthetic opiates. He had a terrible skiing accident about 15 years ago --- broke his collar bone and ALL his ribs on his left side. He took high doses of percocet for about 3 weeks. But that's IT. No other use. Carol & Rob Lexington, MA --- swartzlloyd2 swartz-lloyd@...> wrote: > Aletta-- (and All) > > Thanks for the detailed and informative response. > > I am also curious about longterm use of rx > painkillers prior to dx > of MSA -- I have acute lumbar scoliosis, which has > been > increasingly painful over the years, and, as with > MSA, is > degenerative and in my case not amenable to > surgery.One of my > thoughts is that this pain is interwtined with the > MSA-related pain > in muscles and joints in particular, and it's hard > to disentangle > them. Fosset injections with steroids every 9 wks > help somewhat, > prescribed drugs such as hydrocodone or oxycodone or > meperidine help, > but at best take the edge off. Standing for anything > more than 10 > minutes is awful (pain + weakness), &c. I'm > interested in seeing if > any work has been done on opiates as perhaps an > enabling agent to > destruction of dopamine producing cells. I really > appreciate your > thoughts. > > Tony > > PS to All: > > Have you had experience in dealing with pre-MSA/dx > pain and use of > synthetic opiates or other rx meds as painkillers? > > > > > Addition = need and use of a substance to feel > good, attain a > euphoric state > > Dependence = need and use of a substance to feel > and function > better or well > > > > I worked in a methadone clinic. The reason for > putting addicts on > > methadone rather than heroin had less to do with > addiction then > harm > > reduction. Harm reduction meaning; hygienic > improvements through > weaning > > addicts from using and sharing dirty needles; > changing the supply > of the > > substance from and illegal to a legal one; > eventually it is hoped > tha > > addict will want rehabilitation. > > > > Methadone (a synthetic), when not used for pain > has almost the > identical > > effect of heroin (the opiate), it does take a > little more of the > > methadone. In a medical setting the synthetic vs. > the opiate is > simply > > preference, the likelyhood of addiction is the > same. Cost factors > may also > > decide which you might get (the opiate is usually > cheaper because > generic > > ones are available.) According to seasoned heroin > addicts the high > is the > > same on methadone, and their overall functioning > is not improved, > they do > > however, have a chance to get that high > hygienically and without > the life > > of crime usually attached to addiction, and in BC > it is covered by > Pharmacare. > > > > Many drugs other than opiates are addictive, when > used > irresponsibly. > > Ritalin is sold on the street, so is Dexedrine, > most muscle > relaxants, > > allergy medications (even the over the counter > variety) and many > > others. Any addict can rattle off the entire list > of what fetches > a good > > price at the street corner. The pain an addict > self-medicates is a > > psychological one. No amount of drugs will ever > be enough until > that is > > addressed. Psycholocgically healthy people taking > prescribed drugs > as > > directed by a physician run no risk of becoming > addicted. > > > > Dependence is a different matter, we a most > probably all dependent > on > > something (try prying the neurontin from me). The > human being, as > an > > organism wants to feel well and capable, when our > bodies fail us > that > > dependence is part of our wish to survive and > ought to be > respected. I > > remember drinking rum on occasion because I was so > desperate for > sleep and > > an escape from the pain, it did not make me an > alcoholic, once my > doctor > > addressed the sleeplessness and pain with proper > medication I no > longer > > needed the rum (suppose that to was harm > reduction. > > > > For myself I prefer my medications to have very > long track records > when it > > comes to efficacy and safety. Used as prescribed > opiates are very > safe, > > cheap and available. I like poppies in my garden, > poppyseed in my > cakes, > > and I don't get a buzz from the codeine, what I > get is pain > relief. When > > it ceases to work I will choose with my doctor > another medication, > it may > > be synthetic or not. I've yet to see a medication > not cause any > side > > effects, the choices should be made well-informed, > and well > monitored. It > > (taking opiates) does carry a lot of bad publicity > (much of it > generated by > > opposing pharmaceutical companies, and puritanical > rabble rousers), > doctors > > seem more comfortable prescribing the synthetics > feeling they are > less > > likely to be accused of causing addiction. In > truth the misuse of > drugs by > > people of all walks of life have caused doctors to > feel this way, > but > > responsibility lies with the user. Anorexics > misuse diet > medications and > > laxatives (still an addiction). > > > > If you are using the medication and it is > effective, this is good. > If it > > is not effective have your doctor find another. > Pain medications > should > > always stop when the source of pain clears up, > chronic pain does > not clear > > up and I've found nothing (nor has my doctor) to > suggest long-term > use is > > dangerous in cases of chronic debilitating pain, > insomnia, > narcolepsy > > etc. YOU DO HOWEVER CARRY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF > USING DUE CAUTION. > > > > With regard to studies, any medication on the > market and still in > common > > use after 20-100 years has withstood the test of > time. New > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Tony, Rob had only one experience with synthetic opiates. He had a terrible skiing accident about 15 years ago --- broke his collar bone and ALL his ribs on his left side. He took high doses of percocet for about 3 weeks. But that's IT. No other use. Carol & Rob Lexington, MA --- swartzlloyd2 swartz-lloyd@...> wrote: > Aletta-- (and All) > > Thanks for the detailed and informative response. > > I am also curious about longterm use of rx > painkillers prior to dx > of MSA -- I have acute lumbar scoliosis, which has > been > increasingly painful over the years, and, as with > MSA, is > degenerative and in my case not amenable to > surgery.One of my > thoughts is that this pain is interwtined with the > MSA-related pain > in muscles and joints in particular, and it's hard > to disentangle > them. Fosset injections with steroids every 9 wks > help somewhat, > prescribed drugs such as hydrocodone or oxycodone or > meperidine help, > but at best take the edge off. Standing for anything > more than 10 > minutes is awful (pain + weakness), &c. I'm > interested in seeing if > any work has been done on opiates as perhaps an > enabling agent to > destruction of dopamine producing cells. I really > appreciate your > thoughts. > > Tony > > PS to All: > > Have you had experience in dealing with pre-MSA/dx > pain and use of > synthetic opiates or other rx meds as painkillers? > > > > > Addition = need and use of a substance to feel > good, attain a > euphoric state > > Dependence = need and use of a substance to feel > and function > better or well > > > > I worked in a methadone clinic. The reason for > putting addicts on > > methadone rather than heroin had less to do with > addiction then > harm > > reduction. Harm reduction meaning; hygienic > improvements through > weaning > > addicts from using and sharing dirty needles; > changing the supply > of the > > substance from and illegal to a legal one; > eventually it is hoped > tha > > addict will want rehabilitation. > > > > Methadone (a synthetic), when not used for pain > has almost the > identical > > effect of heroin (the opiate), it does take a > little more of the > > methadone. In a medical setting the synthetic vs. > the opiate is > simply > > preference, the likelyhood of addiction is the > same. Cost factors > may also > > decide which you might get (the opiate is usually > cheaper because > generic > > ones are available.) According to seasoned heroin > addicts the high > is the > > same on methadone, and their overall functioning > is not improved, > they do > > however, have a chance to get that high > hygienically and without > the life > > of crime usually attached to addiction, and in BC > it is covered by > Pharmacare. > > > > Many drugs other than opiates are addictive, when > used > irresponsibly. > > Ritalin is sold on the street, so is Dexedrine, > most muscle > relaxants, > > allergy medications (even the over the counter > variety) and many > > others. Any addict can rattle off the entire list > of what fetches > a good > > price at the street corner. The pain an addict > self-medicates is a > > psychological one. No amount of drugs will ever > be enough until > that is > > addressed. Psycholocgically healthy people taking > prescribed drugs > as > > directed by a physician run no risk of becoming > addicted. > > > > Dependence is a different matter, we a most > probably all dependent > on > > something (try prying the neurontin from me). The > human being, as > an > > organism wants to feel well and capable, when our > bodies fail us > that > > dependence is part of our wish to survive and > ought to be > respected. I > > remember drinking rum on occasion because I was so > desperate for > sleep and > > an escape from the pain, it did not make me an > alcoholic, once my > doctor > > addressed the sleeplessness and pain with proper > medication I no > longer > > needed the rum (suppose that to was harm > reduction. > > > > For myself I prefer my medications to have very > long track records > when it > > comes to efficacy and safety. Used as prescribed > opiates are very > safe, > > cheap and available. I like poppies in my garden, > poppyseed in my > cakes, > > and I don't get a buzz from the codeine, what I > get is pain > relief. When > > it ceases to work I will choose with my doctor > another medication, > it may > > be synthetic or not. I've yet to see a medication > not cause any > side > > effects, the choices should be made well-informed, > and well > monitored. It > > (taking opiates) does carry a lot of bad publicity > (much of it > generated by > > opposing pharmaceutical companies, and puritanical > rabble rousers), > doctors > > seem more comfortable prescribing the synthetics > feeling they are > less > > likely to be accused of causing addiction. In > truth the misuse of > drugs by > > people of all walks of life have caused doctors to > feel this way, > but > > responsibility lies with the user. Anorexics > misuse diet > medications and > > laxatives (still an addiction). > > > > If you are using the medication and it is > effective, this is good. > If it > > is not effective have your doctor find another. > Pain medications > should > > always stop when the source of pain clears up, > chronic pain does > not clear > > up and I've found nothing (nor has my doctor) to > suggest long-term > use is > > dangerous in cases of chronic debilitating pain, > insomnia, > narcolepsy > > etc. YOU DO HOWEVER CARRY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF > USING DUE CAUTION. > > > > With regard to studies, any medication on the > market and still in > common > > use after 20-100 years has withstood the test of > time. New > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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