Re: Re: Predictable jerky spouse behavior

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/16/2002 4:14:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dlturner@... writes:

<< You gals...try and let some of the guys off the hook. We're not

smart and you can't make us. But for those that just let life

intercede with happiness...no matter the conditions...there's a lot

of remorseful types out there that would appreciate that last

absolution. After 10 years of it....I'm just ready to pay my fine

and go home and be happy...without it; it sneaks back too often and

brings on some heartfelt misery.

....everyone has a tale to tell ....

my ex knows my buttons and absolute silence

regarding a very special day (it would have been 30 years last

Friday) no matter the prose and midi music sent her way in

remembrance should have at least got a " Thanks " or " you remembered "

or even a " go to hell " ....any or one of the above, I could understand.

I'll never understand indifference. >>

Ah Dan,

Your post triggered some VERY strong emotions in me.

First, none of that " aw shucks we're stupid " cuts any ice with me. If men are

so stupid (and they are) why are they running the country, most businesses,

bossing competent women around and making about 50% more money than women

for the same type of work? Sorry if I sound bitter, I am. I am tired of

being overworked and underpaid solely for lack of a penis. I also resent

being responsible for the housework, remembering HIS mother's birthday,

paying the bills, taking care of all the holiday crap, buying the groceries

and cooking even when I can't eat. I resent working 2 jobs for my entire

adult life in order to keep the train on the tracks and after he puts in a

scant 37.5 hour week cannot be bothered to put the friggin seat down. I

resent having to ask multiple times to get things done, resent having to be a

mommy when I wanted to be a wife.

Despite my anger and disappointment, I really don't wish him any ill will, I

just want out. And he has met silence and indifference for the last 4 years.

I don't want to fight, I dont hate him, I don't care enough about him to

hate him. I just want him gone. I've told him several times I want a

divorce, yet he is so passive that unless I become a raving lunatic I guess

he will hang around like an old stray dog waiting to be fed a few crumbs. I

will leave since he won't...just another damn aggravation. I paid for this

house, and can't have a minute's peace in it. I've got too many friends in

the 50ish range that tell me they just pray for their husbands to die so they

can be free of them. They won't divorce them cause they are not willing to

give up the financial benefit of being married. I don't want mine to die, I

want him to be happy....just far far away from me. Once those divorce papers

are signed I hope to never hear from him again. And he never did a big wrong

thing...he just let me down in dozens of little ways almost every day. Now

he claims to not understand. Well, if that is so, I just can't be married to

somebody that stupid. Your post has let me know that even though I've tried

to be halfway nice, avoiding great confrontation, I've actually only

succeeded in being more hurtful in failing to acknowledge him. Crap!!(not

the word I really wanted to say..lolol)

B

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/16/2002 4:14:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dlturner@... writes:

<< You gals...try and let some of the guys off the hook. We're not

smart and you can't make us. But for those that just let life

intercede with happiness...no matter the conditions...there's a lot

of remorseful types out there that would appreciate that last

absolution. After 10 years of it....I'm just ready to pay my fine

and go home and be happy...without it; it sneaks back too often and

brings on some heartfelt misery.

....everyone has a tale to tell ....

my ex knows my buttons and absolute silence

regarding a very special day (it would have been 30 years last

Friday) no matter the prose and midi music sent her way in

remembrance should have at least got a " Thanks " or " you remembered "

or even a " go to hell " ....any or one of the above, I could understand.

I'll never understand indifference. >>

Ah Dan,

Your post triggered some VERY strong emotions in me.

First, none of that " aw shucks we're stupid " cuts any ice with me. If men are

so stupid (and they are) why are they running the country, most businesses,

bossing competent women around and making about 50% more money than women

for the same type of work? Sorry if I sound bitter, I am. I am tired of

being overworked and underpaid solely for lack of a penis. I also resent

being responsible for the housework, remembering HIS mother's birthday,

paying the bills, taking care of all the holiday crap, buying the groceries

and cooking even when I can't eat. I resent working 2 jobs for my entire

adult life in order to keep the train on the tracks and after he puts in a

scant 37.5 hour week cannot be bothered to put the friggin seat down. I

resent having to ask multiple times to get things done, resent having to be a

mommy when I wanted to be a wife.

Despite my anger and disappointment, I really don't wish him any ill will, I

just want out. And he has met silence and indifference for the last 4 years.

I don't want to fight, I dont hate him, I don't care enough about him to

hate him. I just want him gone. I've told him several times I want a

divorce, yet he is so passive that unless I become a raving lunatic I guess

he will hang around like an old stray dog waiting to be fed a few crumbs. I

will leave since he won't...just another damn aggravation. I paid for this

house, and can't have a minute's peace in it. I've got too many friends in

the 50ish range that tell me they just pray for their husbands to die so they

can be free of them. They won't divorce them cause they are not willing to

give up the financial benefit of being married. I don't want mine to die, I

want him to be happy....just far far away from me. Once those divorce papers

are signed I hope to never hear from him again. And he never did a big wrong

thing...he just let me down in dozens of little ways almost every day. Now

he claims to not understand. Well, if that is so, I just can't be married to

somebody that stupid. Your post has let me know that even though I've tried

to be halfway nice, avoiding great confrontation, I've actually only

succeeded in being more hurtful in failing to acknowledge him. Crap!!(not

the word I really wanted to say..lolol)

B

[Guest guest]

Whooa baby! I know you all don't really want sympathy, but just want to

vent. But you're sure making me feel oohhhh sooo lucky to have the husband I

have. We've been married 26 years and while they haven't been all perfect

and we've hit a few bumps in the road, he appreciated me when I was 291 lbs.,

and appreciates me even more (if possible) now at 145. He never stops

complimenting me and telling me how attractive I am to him in every way.

He's always been loving, giving, wonderful....but with the weight loss

IIIIIIIIIII (me) feel like a different woman, and so he's bound to see me

differently too. Plus, I think now he remembers me the way I was when we met

28 yrs. ago (hard to do with all these wrinkles) but it makes HIM feel young

again, and our relationship has grown young again. Yes, I'm a lucky woman!

Thanks for the reminders of that!

Dianne B.

[Guest guest]

Whooa baby! I know you all don't really want sympathy, but just want to

vent. But you're sure making me feel oohhhh sooo lucky to have the husband I

have. We've been married 26 years and while they haven't been all perfect

and we've hit a few bumps in the road, he appreciated me when I was 291 lbs.,

and appreciates me even more (if possible) now at 145. He never stops

complimenting me and telling me how attractive I am to him in every way.

He's always been loving, giving, wonderful....but with the weight loss

IIIIIIIIIII (me) feel like a different woman, and so he's bound to see me

differently too. Plus, I think now he remembers me the way I was when we met

28 yrs. ago (hard to do with all these wrinkles) but it makes HIM feel young

again, and our relationship has grown young again. Yes, I'm a lucky woman!

Thanks for the reminders of that!

Dianne B.

[Guest guest]

Whooa baby! I know you all don't really want sympathy, but just want to

vent. But you're sure making me feel oohhhh sooo lucky to have the husband I

have. We've been married 26 years and while they haven't been all perfect

and we've hit a few bumps in the road, he appreciated me when I was 291 lbs.,

and appreciates me even more (if possible) now at 145. He never stops

complimenting me and telling me how attractive I am to him in every way.

He's always been loving, giving, wonderful....but with the weight loss

IIIIIIIIIII (me) feel like a different woman, and so he's bound to see me

differently too. Plus, I think now he remembers me the way I was when we met

28 yrs. ago (hard to do with all these wrinkles) but it makes HIM feel young

again, and our relationship has grown young again. Yes, I'm a lucky woman!

Thanks for the reminders of that!

Dianne B.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/16/2002 9:54:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dlturner@... writes:

<< Suffice to say....I can't and won't agree with some of the comments

as you're using a too broad a brush that doesn't reflect all males. >>

Dan,

So help me God, I really didn't mean for my post to be a male bashing rant.

One gal wrote me to say that obviously I was no longer medicating myself

with food to obscure my feelings...LOLOL

I believe your post triggered such strong feelings because I recognized the

absolute validity of what you said about indifference. Despite my bitterness

and disappointments, I do wish with all my heart that he would find true

happiness. I want him to be happy, I do not want to be cruel. And I

recognized that my silence, my absence, my indifference has probably been

very painful for him. Probably far more painful than a big blowup and clean

break. I felt sharp pain of my own in recognizing that I had inflicted that

kind of hurt on another human being. Cause I really pride myself on being a

good person, on being fair and kind. Your words made me see that I have

fallen far short in this case. It won't change the outcome, in fact if I am

any kind of person at all, it should hasten it.

B

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/16/2002 9:54:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dlturner@... writes:

<< Suffice to say....I can't and won't agree with some of the comments

as you're using a too broad a brush that doesn't reflect all males. >>

Dan,

So help me God, I really didn't mean for my post to be a male bashing rant.

One gal wrote me to say that obviously I was no longer medicating myself

with food to obscure my feelings...LOLOL

I believe your post triggered such strong feelings because I recognized the

absolute validity of what you said about indifference. Despite my bitterness

and disappointments, I do wish with all my heart that he would find true

happiness. I want him to be happy, I do not want to be cruel. And I

recognized that my silence, my absence, my indifference has probably been

very painful for him. Probably far more painful than a big blowup and clean

break. I felt sharp pain of my own in recognizing that I had inflicted that

kind of hurt on another human being. Cause I really pride myself on being a

good person, on being fair and kind. Your words made me see that I have

fallen far short in this case. It won't change the outcome, in fact if I am

any kind of person at all, it should hasten it.

B

[Guest guest]

Dan writes:

< >

My divorce started out quite amicable 8 years ago. Mostly, I guess, because I

gave him everything, and then continued to support him for another year after I

left.

It has deteriorated since then - to the point where I would really prefer not to

see him or speak to him. For me, it's not so much indifference as it is

annoyance and bitterness at the way he behaves and treats his children and his

obligations. I usually act indifferent, but that masks what I see as the more

negative emotions.

(and just for the record, he has never said a word about my weight loss)

Kate

[Guest guest]

Dan writes:

< >

My divorce started out quite amicable 8 years ago. Mostly, I guess, because I

gave him everything, and then continued to support him for another year after I

left.

It has deteriorated since then - to the point where I would really prefer not to

see him or speak to him. For me, it's not so much indifference as it is

annoyance and bitterness at the way he behaves and treats his children and his

obligations. I usually act indifferent, but that masks what I see as the more

negative emotions.

(and just for the record, he has never said a word about my weight loss)

Kate

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/16/02 5:54:08 PM Central Daylight Time, ngbcpa1@...

writes:

<< They won't divorce them cause they are not willing to

give up the financial benefit of being married. I don't want mine to die, I

want him to be happy....just far far away from me. Once those divorce

papers

are signed I hope to never hear from him again. And he never did a big

wrong

thing...he just let me down in dozens of little ways almost every day. >>

-------------------------------------

Singin' my song, . Singin' my song.

And I too am tired of a life (I'm 60) where advantage lies not with what's

between your ears, but rather what's between your legs. I have been in jobs

where:

I couldn't be called an office manager, even tho that's what I was, bcuz

only men could have a " manager " title

I CHECKED the work of application engineers, who had previously been auto

mechanics, plumbers, and handymen, but I couldn't be called an

engineer,

bcuz I " didn't have a degree "

I couldn't move into outside sales bcuz

a. the customers would never accept a woman selling cylinders

b. I might have to crawl around in dirty greasy shops to check out

problems

c. women just don't have the head for the physics and math involved

(I was the highest scoring female EVER to take the pre-employment

test

and I got a district mgr to give me the sales engineer test on

the q.t. just

2c if I could do it; passed with flying colors

I couldn't receive the same salary as men who were even LOWER on the

totem pole than I, bcuz I wasn't the " breadwinner "

Oh, and when I finally was working in a company that valued my abilities and

they moved to Georgia and offered me an all-expenses paid transfer to move

out there, my husband of course refused to give up HIS job to follow me out

there. So I didn't go.

Am I bitter? You bet.

Things are somewhat better these days, for MY daughters, but a lot of the

discrimination is just better covered up.

Carol A

[Guest guest]

I hate to say this, but it's because women let them. Yes, we're the silent

majority. On election day, I have a girlfriend who just votes the way her

boyfriend does...why? Because she just doesn't know any better, or thinks

oh, they could never take away our right to chose (a pet peeve of mine).

HELLO! Or, some don't vote at all because they think it really doesn't make

a difference. Don't they remember chads, hanging and otherwise?

I agree with you, indifference is worse than anything. All I can say is get

thee to a lawyer. The house is yours, I want to know that you've been able

to keep it.

Good luck,

in NJ

*******************************

In a message dated 10/16/2002 10:06:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

ngbcpa1@... writes:

> First, none of that " aw shucks we're stupid " cuts any ice with me. If men

> are

> so stupid (and they are) why are they running the country, most businesses,

>

> bossing competent women around and making about 50% more money than women

> for the same type of work?

[Guest guest]

Someone once told me that the opposite of love is not hate; it's

indifference. There have been times in my 25+ years of marriage that I have

found myself not hating, but not giving a sh*t, which is always my wake-up

call to big trouble brewing. Marriage takes work; it's when we don't care

enough to put forth the effort any more that it all comes apart. Fortunately

for me and dh, we have never gotten to that point. Yelling and screaming,

yes; dead silence -- no.

And since I've responded this this thread now, I'll add....my dh was very

against my having surgery to begin with. Was certain that if I just " tried

harder " and dieted and exercised more I could lose weight. I worked on him

for a year before he reluctantly agreed. Now, he's my biggest cheerleader

and fan...not a day goes by that he doesn't oggle me, comment on my bod

(saggy baggy breasts and all....remember, I'm an old granny...) and tell me

how hot I am and how much he craves wild monkey sex with me, LOL!!! I think

I'm pretty lucky.....but then, so is HE!!!

KC

<<<< Dan said:

it's that absolute dis-acknowledgement and silence that

does a lot of harm.>>>

[Guest guest]

Yup....sounds right to me. I'm always ready for a scrap and a make up than

I am the old proverbial Hallway Sex (where the couple pass each other in the

hallway and both say:

" Screw you!! " )

....although, I suppose Hallway Sex is better than nothing said at all.

The current YL and I are notorious for quick tempers....but most of the time

we resolve that with a remark that breaks the ice with a lot of humor. That

in and of itself...is a learned habit and well worth learning.

I think was all tears the pre-op visit with my Doc... " please be

careful. " and " get a good night's sleep...waaaah! " all of that; with all the

blubbering going on, Dr. Waits just couldn't let her down. Surviving the

following couple of months was 100% due to her and we both derive the

benefit of having gone through the process.

And marriage does take work... " it's not what you find, it's what you make "

that counts.

Dan

rny 10.13.98

EdWaits,MD-Atlanta

RE: Re: Predictable jerky spouse behavior

Someone once told me that the opposite of love is not hate; it's

indifference. There have been times in my 25+ years of marriage that I have

found myself not hating, but not giving a sh*t, which is always my wake-up

call to big trouble brewing. Marriage takes work; it's when we don't care

enough to put forth the effort any more that it all comes apart. Fortunately

for me and dh, we have never gotten to that point. Yelling and screaming,

yes; dead silence -- no.

And since I've responded this this thread now, I'll add....my dh was very

against my having surgery to begin with. Was certain that if I just " tried

harder " and dieted and exercised more I could lose weight. I worked on him

for a year before he reluctantly agreed. Now, he's my biggest cheerleader

and fan...not a day goes by that he doesn't oggle me, comment on my bod

(saggy baggy breasts and all....remember, I'm an old granny...) and tell me

how hot I am and how much he craves wild monkey sex with me, LOL!!! I think

I'm pretty lucky.....but then, so is HE!!!

KC

<<<< Dan said:

it's that absolute dis-acknowledgement and silence that

does a lot of harm.>>>