Re: Predictable jerky spouse behavior

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/14/2002 9:33:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,

vickiang@... writes:

> BUT, I will not let him bash me. I had to draw the line this morning and,

> in a loving way, tell him to get a grip.

>

Hooray for you for taking a stand! It sounds like you were assertive and

protective of yourself, without being nasty or accusatory - and it must have

been hard. I hope he uses this opportunity to take a hard look at what is

motivating him to behave this way.

Kate

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/14/2002 9:33:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,

vickiang@... writes:

> BUT, I will not let him bash me. I had to draw the line this morning and,

> in a loving way, tell him to get a grip.

>

Hooray for you for taking a stand! It sounds like you were assertive and

protective of yourself, without being nasty or accusatory - and it must have

been hard. I hope he uses this opportunity to take a hard look at what is

motivating him to behave this way.

Kate

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/14/2002 9:33:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,

vickiang@... writes:

> BUT, I will not let him bash me. I had to draw the line this morning and,

> in a loving way, tell him to get a grip.

>

Hooray for you for taking a stand! It sounds like you were assertive and

protective of yourself, without being nasty or accusatory - and it must have

been hard. I hope he uses this opportunity to take a hard look at what is

motivating him to behave this way.

Kate

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/14/02 11:33:26 AM Central Daylight Time,

vickiang@... writes:

He has also made it his mission in life to constantly criticize me.

He has never acknowledged my weight loss, noticed a new outfit,

haircut, etc... or commented on my new, longstanding healthy

behaviors.

Oh, Vicki, I hear you loud and clear. Mine has never said an encouraging word

either -- unless I have just outright ASKED him like " don't u think I've lost

some weight? " Then I MIGHT get a positive response. But if I have to prompt

it, it just doesn't count, y'know?

You know, it's so pathetic and predictable, it's almost funny. Poor guy

obviously must be feeling threatened.

Pathetic, yes. But funny? No. Not ever funny. Not even almost. It's sad, and

hurtful, and close to tragic. Here we are, needing our partners'

understanding more than ever, and they (you are right) are threatened by our

new-found backbone and self-esteem. What happened to those doormats they've

been used to wiping their feet on? Why, they suddenly got up off the floor

and started standing up for themselves! No wonder these poor guys feel so

threatened. We might actually not NEED them anymore at some point. And THEN

who will they have to bash around emotionally?

" I never knew I was going to have to go through this when we got

married. Americans just aren't disciplined. " (he's Chinese).

Mine's Pakistani. LOL. D'ya think that explains it? (He's accused me of

having " changed " since year 3 of our 40-year marriage--LONG b4 I had WLS).

It's easy for all of us to focus on trying to achieve a new lifestyle. It's

also easy to forget that we are radically changing the lives of those

immediately around us. And, it's true, they didn't sign up for the ride.

They are getting swept up in this adventure whether they like it or not. So

I'll be patient with my husband. BUT, I will not let him bash me. I had to

draw the line this morning and, in a loving way, tell him to get a grip.

Well, you're a better (wo)man than I, Gunga Din. After 40 years, I don't have

all that much patience left. I told mine I want a divorce once we sell the

house (which will probably be in the spring), and I didn't do it too

lovingly. He said that would probably be better for him too, as he wouldn't

have to carry insurance on me anymore. But, u know what? He's been a lot

nicer to me since then.........

Carol A

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/14/02 11:33:26 AM Central Daylight Time,

vickiang@... writes:

He has also made it his mission in life to constantly criticize me.

He has never acknowledged my weight loss, noticed a new outfit,

haircut, etc... or commented on my new, longstanding healthy

behaviors.

Oh, Vicki, I hear you loud and clear. Mine has never said an encouraging word

either -- unless I have just outright ASKED him like " don't u think I've lost

some weight? " Then I MIGHT get a positive response. But if I have to prompt

it, it just doesn't count, y'know?

You know, it's so pathetic and predictable, it's almost funny. Poor guy

obviously must be feeling threatened.

Pathetic, yes. But funny? No. Not ever funny. Not even almost. It's sad, and

hurtful, and close to tragic. Here we are, needing our partners'

understanding more than ever, and they (you are right) are threatened by our

new-found backbone and self-esteem. What happened to those doormats they've

been used to wiping their feet on? Why, they suddenly got up off the floor

and started standing up for themselves! No wonder these poor guys feel so

threatened. We might actually not NEED them anymore at some point. And THEN

who will they have to bash around emotionally?

" I never knew I was going to have to go through this when we got

married. Americans just aren't disciplined. " (he's Chinese).

Mine's Pakistani. LOL. D'ya think that explains it? (He's accused me of

having " changed " since year 3 of our 40-year marriage--LONG b4 I had WLS).

It's easy for all of us to focus on trying to achieve a new lifestyle. It's

also easy to forget that we are radically changing the lives of those

immediately around us. And, it's true, they didn't sign up for the ride.

They are getting swept up in this adventure whether they like it or not. So

I'll be patient with my husband. BUT, I will not let him bash me. I had to

draw the line this morning and, in a loving way, tell him to get a grip.

Well, you're a better (wo)man than I, Gunga Din. After 40 years, I don't have

all that much patience left. I told mine I want a divorce once we sell the

house (which will probably be in the spring), and I didn't do it too

lovingly. He said that would probably be better for him too, as he wouldn't

have to carry insurance on me anymore. But, u know what? He's been a lot

nicer to me since then.........

Carol A

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/14/02 11:33:26 AM Central Daylight Time,

vickiang@... writes:

He has also made it his mission in life to constantly criticize me.

He has never acknowledged my weight loss, noticed a new outfit,

haircut, etc... or commented on my new, longstanding healthy

behaviors.

Oh, Vicki, I hear you loud and clear. Mine has never said an encouraging word

either -- unless I have just outright ASKED him like " don't u think I've lost

some weight? " Then I MIGHT get a positive response. But if I have to prompt

it, it just doesn't count, y'know?

You know, it's so pathetic and predictable, it's almost funny. Poor guy

obviously must be feeling threatened.

Pathetic, yes. But funny? No. Not ever funny. Not even almost. It's sad, and

hurtful, and close to tragic. Here we are, needing our partners'

understanding more than ever, and they (you are right) are threatened by our

new-found backbone and self-esteem. What happened to those doormats they've

been used to wiping their feet on? Why, they suddenly got up off the floor

and started standing up for themselves! No wonder these poor guys feel so

threatened. We might actually not NEED them anymore at some point. And THEN

who will they have to bash around emotionally?

" I never knew I was going to have to go through this when we got

married. Americans just aren't disciplined. " (he's Chinese).

Mine's Pakistani. LOL. D'ya think that explains it? (He's accused me of

having " changed " since year 3 of our 40-year marriage--LONG b4 I had WLS).

It's easy for all of us to focus on trying to achieve a new lifestyle. It's

also easy to forget that we are radically changing the lives of those

immediately around us. And, it's true, they didn't sign up for the ride.

They are getting swept up in this adventure whether they like it or not. So

I'll be patient with my husband. BUT, I will not let him bash me. I had to

draw the line this morning and, in a loving way, tell him to get a grip.

Well, you're a better (wo)man than I, Gunga Din. After 40 years, I don't have

all that much patience left. I told mine I want a divorce once we sell the

house (which will probably be in the spring), and I didn't do it too

lovingly. He said that would probably be better for him too, as he wouldn't

have to carry insurance on me anymore. But, u know what? He's been a lot

nicer to me since then.........

Carol A

[Guest guest]

I've watched/read this thread and find it really interesting on spousal

behavior. Mine has made comments before on how much I spend on new cloths

which really isn't much, we just didn't have the extra at that time so -- he

was right on that part ~guilty smile~ BUT he's been totally great about the

whole WL thing... at one point he was asking about the cost of the

supplements and I told him just get used to it... that would be for the rest

of our lives (well, I explained in more detail than that) and he was cool

with it after it was explained.

Where I've found the most " issue " about my WL is among friends and some

family -- none of them are privy to the information that I had surgery at

all -- my mom and my husband know and that's all (besides the 1000 plus

people on these lists... LOL)

Anyway, talking with my therapist last week about the loss of our

friendships both women and couple friends and I think a big part of it has

to do with the pecking order in ALL of our relationships.

I'm no longer the fat one and since I don't fill that " roll " I think people

don't know where I " fit in " anymore -- I upset the whole apple cart (and I

think that can happen in a marriage too) We often take on " new rolls " when

we have less " rolls " and most the time I just don't choose to " make " a new

place for myself... If I fit in as being the " fat " one then to me it seems

like no one really saw what was beneath all that fat and knew me for the

real person -- thin or fat -- the " real " me hasn't changed.

I did want to make one comment on / for / towards the end of those who are

getting rid of or have rid themselves of " jerky spouses " -- when I was going

through my divorce I also had began almost daily therapy, medication for the

extreme depression and I had a support group that I met with every

evening -- The day I knew I was doing REALLY GOOD -- my husband-at-the-time

said to me... " I don't even know you anymore.... " Oh *big sigh* I could have

jumped 10 feet in a single bound and walked around for weeks with my head in

the clouds -- it was the nicest thing he could have possibly said to me

(his tone of voice isn't relevant ;-))

I knew then that I had " changed " enough in the right direction and that

helped to confirm to me that I was headed on a new path... some times those

" intended digs " are the greatest things :-) LOL... and the jerks don't even

realize!

hugz,

~denise

[Guest guest]

I had to jump back in here because I was/am one of those hubbies that

the ex chose to delight in just letting history and good times fall

into a big open space. For most guys...at least for this one...it

really is a painful process, no matter the look on my face or tone in

my voice...to recognize that something that started off so good ended

up adversarial at best....indifferent at worse. Adversarial...with

my former would be a blissful thing today; I've come to grips with

why things fell apart ELEVEN YEARS AGO....just a sign of being POed

and willing argue back would be great. As it is, no matter what I

may do, say, email...even play in MIDI form to resolve our

differences...it's that absolute dis-acknowledgement and silence that

does a lot of harm.

Growing apart...no matter what...is painful enough. Making futile

attempts to resolve some of this pain to a former wife...mine of

almost 20 years and 10 years divorced...leaves a huge void in the

male psyche. Those " struggle and survive years " is a big part of

everyone's youth...and surviving through it is a big success in life;

losing that piece of history to time is rough enough...losing it to

someone that won't acknowledge your existence is probably just the

torture intended.

You gals...try and let some of the guys off the hook. We're not

smart and you can't make us. But for those that just let life

intercede with happiness...no matter the conditions...there's a lot

of remorseful types out there that would appreciate that last

absolution. After 10 years of it....I'm just ready to pay my fine

and go home and be happy...without it; it sneaks back too often and

brings on some heartfelt misery.

I guess I'm just moping about for the very issues above....everyone

has a tale to tell ....my ex knows my buttons and absolute silence

regarding a very special day (it would have been 30 years last

Friday) no matter the prose and midi music sent her way in

remembrance should have at least got a " Thanks " or " you remembered "

or even a " go to hell " ....any or one of the above, I could understand.

I'll never understand indifference.

Well...ramble ramble ramble ...sorry, it just came to mind and off

my chest. And I'm normally such a happy guy!

Dan

rny 10.13.98

EdWaits,MD-Atlanta

> I did want to make one comment on / for / towards the end of

those who are

> getting rid of or have rid themselves of " jerky spouses " -- when I

was going

> through my divorce I also had began almost daily therapy,

medication for the

> extreme depression and I had a support group that I met with every

> evening -- The day I knew I was doing REALLY GOOD -- my husband-at-

the-time

> said to me... " I don't even know you anymore.... " Oh *big sigh* I

could have

> jumped 10 feet in a single bound and walked around for weeks with

my head in

> the clouds -- it was the nicest thing he could have possibly said

to me

> (his tone of voice isn't relevant ;-))

> I knew then that I had " changed " enough in the right

direction and that

> helped to confirm to me that I was headed on a new path... some

times those

> " intended digs " are the greatest things :-) LOL... and the jerks

don't even

> realize!

>

> hugz,

> ~denise

[Guest guest]

Suffice to say....I can't and won't agree with some of the comments

as you're using a too broad a brush that doesn't reflect all males.

Having said that...I do accept what you say not to patronizing, just

to accept that I believe in what you say for you sector of the male

populace.

I've no doubt that my Ex would fill pages with all the stuff that I

don't know; didn't know and failed to recognize before issues

spiraled too fast too far. Conversely, I could fill a few volumes

of my own complaints that at this time...aren't applicable any

longer and having got past their significance as issues...shouldn't

really be the stumbling block that it presents. In my case, it's as

if 50% of my time here never existed...memories go askew; there

aren't any fond memories to share as they come up sorta sad and

morose, yet too many years to forget. So, yeah...I'm a bit on the

hurt side after being snubbed...it'll go away, again; and one day

something will remind me...again, and then I'll cycle through this

little valley once again.

As for being overworked and underpaid...it cuts both ways, kiddo.

My Ex allowed me to finance her collegiate career from high school

all the way to her 3rd Associates; 2nd Batchelor; 2nd Masters and

finally her PhD. It was two jobs or more to keep our heads above

water for 18 years; when that PhD rolled in...she rolled out. I

wanted children...but her degrees were in Microbiology and her

intern job with the NIH as a biochemist wouldn't allow her to become

pregnant...dealing with her immune system and some of the bad bugs

she was dealing with. Peculiarly enough....where she didn't want

children then....she has a 10 year old daughter now; a Federal job

and all I got was this stupid Tee shirt. Sooooo... " stupid " is

applicable in this case.

Be that as it may...we've all got a tale or two. I know of at least

one woman that got the American Dream just the way she wanted...no

children to deal with; someone to share the chores, the cooking,

grocery store; the billing and payables...and for the first five

years, a chauffeur.....and I did put the seat down most of the

times.

Dan

rny 10.13.98

EdWaits,MD-Atlanta

> In a message dated 10/16/2002 4:14:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> dlturner@b... writes:

> << You gals...try and let some of the guys off the hook. We're

not

> smart and you can't make us. But for those that just let life

> intercede with happiness...no matter the conditions...there's a

lot

> of remorseful types out there that would appreciate that last

> absolution. After 10 years of it....I'm just ready to pay my

fine

> and go home and be happy...without it; it sneaks back too often

and

> brings on some heartfelt misery.

> ....everyone has a tale to tell ....

> my ex knows my buttons and absolute silence

> regarding a very special day (it would have been 30 years last

> Friday) no matter the prose and midi music sent her way in

> remembrance should have at least got a " Thanks " or " you

remembered "

> or even a " go to hell " ....any or one of the above, I could

understand.

>

> I'll never understand indifference. >>

> Ah Dan,

> Your post triggered some VERY strong emotions in me.

> First, none of that " aw shucks we're stupid " cuts any ice with me.

If men are

> so stupid (and they are) why are they running the country, most

businesses,

> bossing competent women around and making about 50% more money

than women

> for the same type of work? Sorry if I sound bitter, I am. I am

tired of

> being overworked and underpaid solely for lack of a penis. I also

resent

> being responsible for the housework, remembering HIS mother's

birthday,

> paying the bills, taking care of all the holiday crap, buying the

groceries

> and cooking even when I can't eat. I resent working 2 jobs for my

entire

> adult life in order to keep the train on the tracks and after he

puts in a

> scant 37.5 hour week cannot be bothered to put the friggin seat

down. I

> resent having to ask multiple times to get things done, resent

having to be a

> mommy when I wanted to be a wife.

> Despite my anger and disappointment, I really don't wish him any

ill will, I

> just want out. And he has met silence and indifference for the

last 4 years.

> I don't want to fight, I dont hate him, I don't care enough about

him to

> hate him. I just want him gone. I've told him several times I

want a

> divorce, yet he is so passive that unless I become a raving

lunatic I guess

> he will hang around like an old stray dog waiting to be fed a few

crumbs. I

> will leave since he won't...just another damn aggravation. I paid

for this

> house, and can't have a minute's peace in it. I've got too many

friends in

> the 50ish range that tell me they just pray for their husbands to

die so they

> can be free of them. They won't divorce them cause they are not

willing to

> give up the financial benefit of being married. I don't want mine

to die, I

> want him to be happy....just far far away from me. Once those

divorce papers

> are signed I hope to never hear from him again. And he never did

a big wrong

> thing...he just let me down in dozens of little ways almost every

day. Now

> he claims to not understand. Well, if that is so, I just can't be

married to

> somebody that stupid. Your post has let me know that even though

I've tried

> to be halfway nice, avoiding great confrontation, I've actually

only

> succeeded in being more hurtful in failing to acknowledge him.

Crap!!(not

> the word I really wanted to say..lolol)

> B

[Guest guest]

I've been a lurker for awhile lately but this thread caught my eye.

I think those who are lucky enough to have spouses they love should

continue to do whatever it is they do to make things work. For some

that's a lifestyle that many of us wouldn't deem okay. Then for

others that are getting along fine with the status quo being more

conservative. Good for them too. It's those of us who have horrid

relationships that must learn from what we accepted before and what

we expect in the future. I found my voice after losing weight

through surgery. I acquired a small level of self esteem though many

would say I'm still in the low self esteem group. I thought

something was wrong with me and was perfectly willing to take the

blame for the rocky road my marriage was taking when I figured out

that it wasn't me. I'm okay and the dyfunction of my relationship

was what was wrong. My husband wanted a divorce, I agreed though

wanted some terms that I won't go into now but for some strange

reason he " changed his mind " 2 months after. Wanted to take it back

and stay together. Now we're in counseling and I'm not sure we'll

ever fix this broken bond but I'm giving it time, that's all I have

to offer it. I don't love my husband anymore, when he no longer

wanted to be married to me I had to stop loving him or risk being

hurt further. I got on with my life in my head if not in reality and

I enjoyed where I was heading. I don't know what the future holds

but if you've got a marriage that you cherish its a good idea to get

help before the love dies. I'd asked my husband to go to counseling

before and he said NO, that I was the one with the problem. Now that

he's trying to salvage the relationship he's regretting big time that

he didn't go to counseling back when I still loved him. It's not

easy trying to save a marriage to someone you don't love. It's akin

to an arranged marriage but even less because you still have anger

issues that you wouldn't have with someone you didn't know at all.

What a mess.

hugs,

Ramoth

> Yup....sounds right to me. I'm always ready for a scrap and a make

up than

> I am the old proverbial Hallway Sex (where the couple pass each

other in the

> hallway and both say:

>

> " Screw you!! " )

>

> ...although, I suppose Hallway Sex is better than nothing said at

all.

> The current YL and I are notorious for quick tempers....but most of

the time

> we resolve that with a remark that breaks the ice with a lot of

humor. That

> in and of itself...is a learned habit and well worth learning.

>

> I think was all tears the pre-op visit with my Doc... " please

be

> careful. " and " get a good night's sleep...waaaah! " all of that;

with all the

> blubbering going on, Dr. Waits just couldn't let her down.

Surviving the

> following couple of months was 100% due to her and we both derive

the

> benefit of having gone through the process.

>

> And marriage does take work... " it's not what you find, it's what

you make "

> that counts.

>

> Dan

> rny 10.13.98

> EdWaits,MD-Atlanta

>

>

>

>

> RE: Re: Predictable jerky spouse behavior

>

>

> Someone once told me that the opposite of love is not hate; it's

> indifference. There have been times in my 25+ years of marriage

that I have

> found myself not hating, but not giving a sh*t, which is always my

wake-up

> call to big trouble brewing. Marriage takes work; it's when we

don't care

> enough to put forth the effort any more that it all comes apart.

Fortunately

> for me and dh, we have never gotten to that point. Yelling and

screaming,

> yes; dead silence -- no.

>

> And since I've responded this this thread now, I'll add....my dh

was very

> against my having surgery to begin with. Was certain that if I

just " tried

> harder " and dieted and exercised more I could lose weight. I worked

on him

> for a year before he reluctantly agreed. Now, he's my biggest

cheerleader

> and fan...not a day goes by that he doesn't oggle me, comment on my

bod

> (saggy baggy breasts and all....remember, I'm an old granny...) and

tell me

> how hot I am and how much he craves wild monkey sex with me, LOL!!!

I think

> I'm pretty lucky.....but then, so is HE!!!

>

> KC

> <<<< Dan said:

>

> it's that absolute dis-acknowledgement and silence that

> does a lot of harm.>>>