Re: 3 month flare?

[Guest guest]

Hi Chrissy,

Symptoms of "die off" (AKA the HERXHEIMER reaction) or the "transition":

nausea and sometime vomiting Change in bowl movements Bloating and gas cramping Achy joints and lower back Fatigue Dizziness Headaches Skin rashes Flu like symptoms Low grade fever Mood swings and ASD symptoms can get worse OFTEN mistaken as "food intolerance" to the yogurt.

Remedies to make die off easier:

Warm and long soaks in the tub, at 110 degrees, with Epsom Salts added. Foot soaks with Epsom Salts Added For the short hall. SCD legal Activated Charcoal capsules one hour before or after meals. Getting plenty of fluids. Going to bed. Treating yourself as sick. Hot water bottles or heating pad on the tummy for cramps and gas. Introductory diet needs to be eaten a minimum of two days, and then peel and cook everything. Follow guidelines in book on when to introduce certain foods. Dilute your juices and decrease honey intake. Eat yogurt and acidophilus (as tolerated) to introduce good gut bugs Go to www.pecanbread.com if you are not able to do the yogurt, so that you learn how to do SCD with out it...and introduce it as soon as you are able to.

The SCD yogurt and acidophilus replace the bad gut bugs. There is no powder probiotic on the market that is as powerful as this SCD yogurt. Plus most have illegal bifidus added.

AS SCD starves the bad gut bugs out, and we use the probiotics (yogurt and acidophilus), this causes the bad guys to die off. When this happens, they release toxins that make us feel like we have the flu. In BTVC Elaine calls this the "transition". We also often revisit die off at the three month mark (mentioned in the BTVC book). And many say that they have die off again every three months until it stops. Getting easier each time...that is if fanatical SCD is adhered to.

Hope this helps,

Pat

[Guest guest]

I did not think kids with ASD " flared " - I thought that was only with people on

the diet for bowel issues- so please correct me if I am wrong.

Kids with ASD are very sensitive to changes in routine. You went on vacation-

which changed everything- environment, routine. If you visited people- it was a

new social situation as well. All of these things will unglue an ASD kid. Even

if diet stayed the same- everything else was different. Vacation can be very

stressful for a child with ASD.

Hopefully things will settle down when you are home and back to a familiar

routine.

PJ

>

> Hi again, thought I would post this separately since it is a bit involved. My

oldest is 7, has high functioning autism and ADHD and prior to SCD, even when on

GFCF (and a lot of other free's) he had chronic D and C and stalled weight gain,

adrenal fatigue, yeast issues...you name it! Anyway, he has progressed

wonderfully on SCD, we are soooo happy for him. Now we are coming round the

bend on 2 1/2 months and I think he is having some kind of flare...last week we

were on vacation and he was constipated for 3 days (unheard of now) then was

acting seriously wacky when in public but calm and fine when alone with the

family (felt safe and so he chilled out). We came home and his behaviors

improved but he had crazy loose emergency poops for two days...probably went 12+

times in less than 24 hours, including several hours in the middle of the night.

Now the poops are back to constipated and he is avoiding eye contact, he is

whiny, he is avoiding interaction, he won't answer us ....all the things we

dealt with before the diet, minus the raging tantrums, thank goodness. I have

cut back his banana intake so I can't blame that for the constipation, he is

eating fewer now than ever. Sooooo, what is this? Is this the dreaded 3 month

flare? Intolerance (I haven't changed a thing in this time)? Die-off? How is

die-off different from a flare? I have been looking for the answer to these

questions here and elsewhere and it seems like we don't know...is that the case?

Is it so different for each individual that there is no answer?

> Hoping not,

> Chrissy

> mama to 3 boys on SCD 2 1/2 months

>

[Guest guest]

PJ...My DAN! doc warned me about the flare, so the ASD kids do get them, probably because they mostly have gut issues just like people who are on SCD for crohn's or whathaveyou. I agree that vacation would upset an ASD kid, except it never upsets Elijah that much. Despite having autism he loves vacations and travel, the only crack I have ever seen is at bedtime when he wants his own bed to sleep in because the place we go in the summer has really uncomfortable beds. This entire experience is new as far as his reaction to this situation. He was much more difficult than he used to be before we were doing anything to help him with the autism! He was just loopy. Hmm, I guess he is a lot more aware and involved in the world now..it does make sense that he would flip out more when I look at it that way. I was so

disappointed for him, he hardly played with the other kids the last couple of days. He missed out on a lot of fun with his friends because he just couldn't deal with the interaction. I was hoping it would be so much fun for him and instead he was stressed out much of the time. It is hard to accept that that may not change for him, that all these things we are doing may not alter that element of his personality.

Thanks, PJ, for helping me look at it in a new way. I was determined to pin it all on issues with his gut!

Chrissy

Subject: Re: 3 month flare?To: BTVC-SCD Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:55 PM

I did not think kids with ASD "flared"- I thought that was only with people on the diet for bowel issues- so please correct me if I am wrong.Kids with ASD are very sensitive to changes in routine. You went on vacation- which changed everything- environment, routine. If you visited people- it was a new social situation as well. All of these things will unglue an ASD kid. Even if diet stayed the same- everything else was different. Vacation can be very stressful for a child with ASD.Hopefully things will settle down when you are home and back to a familiar routine.PJ>> Hi again, thought I would post this separately since it is a bit involved. My oldest is 7, has

high functioning autism and ADHD and prior to SCD, even when on GFCF (and a lot of other free's) he had chronic D and C and stalled weight gain, adrenal fatigue, yeast issues...you name it! Anyway, he has progressed wonderfully on SCD, we are soooo happy for him. Now we are coming round the bend on 2 1/2 months and I think he is having some kind of flare...last week we were on vacation and he was constipated for 3 days (unheard of now) then was acting seriously wacky when in public but calm and fine when alone with the family (felt safe and so he chilled out). We came home and his behaviors improved but he had crazy loose emergency poops for two days...probably went 12+ times in less than 24 hours, including several hours in the middle of the night. Now the poops are back to constipated and he is avoiding eye contact, he is whiny, he is avoiding interaction, he won't answer us ....all the things we dealt with before the diet, minus the raging tantrums,

thank goodness. I have cut back his banana intake so I can't blame that for the constipation, he is eating fewer now than ever. Sooooo, what is this? Is this the dreaded 3 month flare? Intolerance (I haven't changed a thing in this time)? Die-off? How is die-off different from a flare? I have been looking for the answer to these questions here and elsewhere and it seems like we don't know...is that the case? Is it so different for each individual that there is no answer? > Hoping not,> Chrissy > mama to 3 boys on SCD 2 1/2 months>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for clearing up the gut question. It's interesting, but the high

functioning children are more anxious in social situations than those that are

lower functioning- because they are more aware and want to fit in. Did you say

your son was 7? Around 3rd grade this gets more difficult, because the social

demands get higher at that age. Younger kids are more content to just play. By

grades 3, 4, 5.. they want to fit in more, and middle school is a social

challenge for any kid. Just a thought..

PJ

> >

> > Hi again, thought I would post this separately since it is a bit involved.

My oldest is 7, has high functioning autism and ADHD and prior to SCD, even when

on GFCF (and a lot of other free's) he had chronic D and C and stalled weight

gain, adrenal fatigue, yeast issues...you name it! Anyway, he has progressed

wonderfully on SCD, we are soooo happy for him. Now we are coming round the bend

on 2 1/2 months and I think he is having some kind of flare...last week we were

on vacation and he was constipated for 3 days (unheard of now) then was acting

seriously wacky when in public but calm and fine when alone with the family

(felt safe and so he chilled out). We came home and his behaviors improved but

he had crazy loose emergency poops for two days...probably went 12+ times in

less than 24 hours, including several hours in the middle of the night. Now the

poops are back to constipated and he is avoiding eye contact, he is whiny, he is

avoiding interaction,

> he won't answer us ....all the things we dealt with before the diet, minus

the raging tantrums, thank goodness. I have cut back his banana intake so I

can't blame that for the constipation, he is eating fewer now than ever. Sooooo,

what is this? Is this the dreaded 3 month flare? Intolerance (I haven't changed

a thing in this time)? Die-off? How is die-off different from a flare? I have

been looking for the answer to these questions here and elsewhere and it seems

like we don't know...is that the case? Is it so different for each individual

that there is no answer?

> > Hoping not,

> > Chrissy

> > mama to 3 boys on SCD 2 1/2 months

> >

>

[Guest guest]

At 08:45 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

Sooooo, what is this? Is this

the dreaded 3 month flare? Intolerance (I haven't changed a thing in this

time)? Die-off? How is die-off different from a flare? I have been

looking for the answer to these questions here and elsewhere and it seems

like we don't know...is that the case? Is it so different for each

individual that there is no answer?

Likely the three month flare.

What we sometimes call " the three month flare " is because

(tah-dah!) it occurs around 3 months on SCD.

As you're aware, the objective of SCD is to starve out the bad bacteria.

Well, it has been observed that right around three months on the diet,

you've done such a good job of starving them that their numbers are

dropping rapidly. You've gotten rid of most of the weak sisters amongst

the bad bacteria and the remaining ones are the stronger ones.

So in effect, right now, you're saying, " Away with you! " and

they're saying " H-ll no, we won't go! " and creating havoc for

his poor gut. So it is absolutely critical that you hold fast at this

point and not let him eat any illegals, because if you feed the bacteria

right now, you'll let those stronger ones multiple, and then they'll be

that much harder to starve out.

The " three month flare " can occur anywhere from 9 weeks to 16

weeks. It can also occur again at 6-7 months, and 10-12 months. Those

bacteria are stubborn. But YOU (and he) are more stubborn.

My suggestion would be to drop back to easier-to-digest foods for a

couple of days. Have him rest as much as possible, and don't push. Then

gradually (probably not quite so gradually as the first time) reintroduce

his regular foods.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund