Company letters for legal products

September 19, 2009

Dear Ms. Conrad,

As a member of the BTVC yahoo group listserve, which contains members of the old LI listserve as well, I am trying to gather as many letters from companies about the legality of their products. We as a group, are trying to offer some convenience to our members after they have been on SCD and have been symptom free for a year or more.

It was mentioned by a member that you may possibly have one or two letters. One possibly for Trader Joe's light coconut milk and one possibly for Pacific vegetable stock. If you could find the time to scan and forward those letters ( or any others) to our moderator, Ms. Marilyn Alm, Wizop Marilyn L. Alm I would be very grateful.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Terry Rumas, DMD

September 19, 2009

I think this is great but again.. this stuff needs to be periodically checked. When was her book published?Anyway, if years have gone by that's a bit much.Good point, but if we got the original letters, we could just send them to the company along with another letter asking them to re-verify their previous letter. It might be a little easier than starting from scratch.. Pour Dieu, pour terre,Alyssa 15UC April 2008, diagnosed Sept 2008SCD June 2009 (restarted)No meds except for the stupid iron pill I have to take that is SO illegal

September 19, 2009

I think this is great but again.. this stuff needs to be periodically checked. When was her book published?Anyway, if years have gone by that's a bit much.Good point, but if we got the original letters, we could just send them to the company along with another letter asking them to re-verify their previous letter. It might be a little easier than starting from scratch.. Pour Dieu, pour terre,Alyssa 15UC April 2008, diagnosed Sept 2008SCD June 2009 (restarted)No meds except for the stupid iron pill I have to take that is SO illegal

September 19, 2009

I think this is great but again.. this stuff needs to be periodically checked. When was her book published?Anyway, if years have gone by that's a bit much.Good point, but if we got the original letters, we could just send them to the company along with another letter asking them to re-verify their previous letter. It might be a little easier than starting from scratch.. Pour Dieu, pour terre,Alyssa 15UC April 2008, diagnosed Sept 2008SCD June 2009 (restarted)No meds except for the stupid iron pill I have to take that is SO illegal

September 19, 2009

> Hi Terry,

>

> I think this is great but again.. this stuff needs to be

> periodically checked. When was her book published?

>

> Anyway, if years have gone by that's a bit much.

12/26/06

http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Well-Feel-Carbohydrate-Compliant/dp/0307339947/ref=sr_\

1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253412610&sr=8-1

Less than 3 years - that's way less than the research Elaine

did on various products that we use - tomato juice, grape

juices, orange juice, some other stuff.

Mara

September 19, 2009

Mara,

I am not even talking about Elaine's products. I have a problem with them.. I

think the info is completely dated and I have been flamed for bringing this up..

I think 3 years is way too much.

Things need to be checked yearly!

Companies bought, manufacturing locations change to over seas etc..

3 years is a massive amount of time.

Jodi

September 20, 2009

At 09:17 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:

Things need to be checked

yearly!

Jodi,

Maybe so... but who's going to be in charge of seeing that it gets

done?

And, more importantly perhaps, will all the diverse SCD groups accept

that analysis?

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

September 20, 2009

At 09:17 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:

Things need to be checked

yearly!

Jodi,

Maybe so... but who's going to be in charge of seeing that it gets

done?

And, more importantly perhaps, will all the diverse SCD groups accept

that analysis?

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

September 20, 2009

Marilyn,

> >Things need to be checked yearly!

>

> Jodi,

>

> Maybe so... but who's going to be in charge of seeing that it gets done?

I think if there was a system where SCD'ers shared responsibility it would be

possible.

It makes no sense to me that products that SCD'ers checked are deemed illegal

but Elaine's antiquated list is ok. This could explain why *some* don't feel

well since labels are different around the country sometimes and formulations

have changed. It needs to be more organized.

> And, more importantly perhaps, will all the

> diverse SCD groups accept that analysis?

Possibly not. And I am ok with that.. but lets talk about it and not deny the

existence of this issue.

There is an SCD Committee now over at PecanBread. The decision makers should

have consensus how to proceed with this.. Then have some SCD volunteers do the

work. I would be willing to help out for sure.

This is far too important!!

Jodi

September 20, 2009

Hi Jodi,

I agree--but Mara had mentioned her ( I just ordered her book) and I thought it would be a great starting point if she does have letters. If she doesn't--this opens up some more dialogue about 'verbal' assurances of legality.

Terry

Re: Company letters for legal products

Hi Terry,I think this is great but again.. this stuff needs to be periodically checked. When was her book published?Anyway, if years have gone by that's a bit much.Jodi

September 20, 2009

Hi Jodi,

I agree--but Mara had mentioned her ( I just ordered her book) and I thought it would be a great starting point if she does have letters. If she doesn't--this opens up some more dialogue about 'verbal' assurances of legality.

Terry

Re: Company letters for legal products

Hi Terry,I think this is great but again.. this stuff needs to be periodically checked. When was her book published?Anyway, if years have gone by that's a bit much.Jodi

September 20, 2009

Jodi wrote:

It makes no sense to me that products that SCD'ers checked are deemed illegal but Elaine's antiquated list is ok

This is an excellent point, but just to be clear, what specific list are you talking about and where is it ? This is a big job to recheck her list and compile our own.

>Things need to be checked yearly!

Agreed, but it is a little ambitious. Perhaps we can come up with a time frame that is doable and still current. I think it might take us a year to compile a library of letters and recheck Elaine's stuff and then we'll have to turn around and then do it all over again?

Marilyn wrote:

And, more importantly perhaps, will all the > diverse SCD groups accept that analysis?

Is that so important? This is our group and our analysis and guidelines, and each of the other groups is welcome to agree or disagree and chose not to accept our guidelines. OR they can chime in and help with the guidelines and the work of compiling this library/list. If people question the veracity or legality of things, they are welcome to pursue it on their own and make a decision for themselves. Basically, that's what people ARE doing now. I think that if we stick to the original purpose of compiling a convenience list/library for reference purposes that can be offered after someone is symptom free we may not get caught up in having to please everybody. After all, if I understand it correctly, GAPS people allow things we don't?

I am willing to volunteer my time. I feel that as moderator, Marilyn should have final say. I'm sorry to admit this, but I don't even know if there are other moderators and who they are. Perhaps the moderators can have final say after hearing all suggestions. It's wonderful that this dialogue has been opened up. It may take us all some time to come up with a plan and implement it, but we are on the right track. It was great that you opened up this important dialogue, Jodi.

Terry

September 20, 2009

Hi Terry,

> It makes no sense to me that products that SCD'ers checked are deemed illegal

but Elaine's antiquated list is ok

>

> This is an excellent point, but just to be clear, what specific list are you

talking about and where is it ? This is a big job to recheck her list and

compile our own.

The list of approved commercial items that Elaine allowed deeming them legal. I

wonder who has the original letterheads today?

Is this listed on PB?

Or is it in an email floating around.

I don't think it is mentioned in BTVC.

I think if each one of us takes a product and shares the work this is something

we can do. This is a big job as it is no fun calling companies. We need to

work on a protocol and compile a list of questions as the standard process that

SCD'ers can go through when calling companies. We need to work on this

together!

> >Things need to be checked yearly!

>

> Agreed, but it is a little ambitious. Perhaps we can come up with a time frame

that is doable and still current. I think it might take us a year to compile a

library of letters and recheck Elaine's stuff and then we'll have to turn around

and then do it all over again?

You are right this is ambitious. Let's start at what we have now and recheck

Elaine's list.

I would dedeciate doing a product every month or so, so I don't have burn out.

> Marilyn wrote:

>

> And, more importantly perhaps, will all the

> > diverse SCD groups accept that analysis?

>

> Is that so important? This is our group and our analysis and guidelines, and

each of the other groups is welcome to agree or disagree and chose not to accept

our guidelines. OR they can chime in and help with the guidelines and the work

of compiling this library/list. If people question the veracity or legality of

things, they are welcome to pursue it on their own and make a decision for

themselves. Basically, that's what people ARE doing now. I think that if we

stick to the original purpose of compiling a convenience list/library for

reference purposes that can be offered after someone is symptom free we may not

get caught up in having to please everybody. After all, if I understand it

correctly, GAPS people allow things we don't?

I don't know if GAPS has a protocol about checking legality (they don't go by

legal illegal although they understand it from SCD) also, they are even more

strict than SCD about " make your own, make your own " but the positive thing

about GAPS is that it seems to have direction for people when they feel better

and want to expand their diet. After healing takes place Dr Natasha allows

dairy (illegal) to us to be consumed and other things.

GAPS allows fermented foods from the get go like krauts (no dairy whatsoever)

and they allow biokult which is a probiotic Dr Natasha developed containing

Bifidus.

I believe ultimately GAPS people would use our compiled list as people over

there will use commercial products too once they are healed.

I would love to see the whole SCD community work together.. But if they don't

want to.. I think we with IBD doing the SCD should.

Consensus is impossible to reach with too many people that is why the SCD

decision makers should come up with a direction for this!

> I am willing to volunteer my time. I feel that as moderator, Marilyn should

have final say. I'm sorry to admit this, but I don't even know if there are

other moderators and who they are. Perhaps the moderators can have final say

after hearing all suggestions. It's wonderful that this dialogue has been opened

up. It may take us all some time to come up with a plan and implement it, but we

are on the right track. It was great that you opened up this important dialogue,

Jodi.

Terry if you go to various SCD groups and then click on 'members' at the left

side and then click on 'moderators' it will show you a list who has mod

privileges and who is the owner. Marilyn is the owner of this group.

It's up to Marilyn if she wants to choose about something like this herself. I

do not envy Marilyn's position at all as she might wake up in a $h&$ storm over

this. The cocoa butter could of just been a taste of whats to come.. This

community is extremely rigid when it comes to any type of change. I understand

it too, since they hold the torch of Elaine's work.. but in this instance about

this issue Elaine's list is dated and she delineated the protocol about getting

letterheads. It was Elaine's way.. We are just following through with what she

taught us. Unless going through the steps of obtaining a letterhead was so

difficult that this was an indirect way to discourage us from buying commercial

products although I don't feel that was what Elaine was about at all since she

herself approved a couple of products. She volunteered her time from the

goodness of her heart..

I would also love to have Digestive Wellness's letterheads.

I would love to use bagged tea.

Jodi

September 20, 2009

At 11:19 AM 9/20/2009, you wrote:

The list of approved commercial

items that Elaine allowed deeming them legal. I wonder who has the

original letterheads today?

Is this listed on PB?

Or is it in an email floating around.

If the original letterheads still exist, probably one of Elaine's

daughters have them. <g> BTVC was around LONG before it had an

Internet presence -- I think the Long Island List was started in 1998 or

thereabouts. I came to it in late summer of 2001. Pecanbread (Elaine's

Children was the original list) came a couple of years later.

>> I think if each one of us takes a product and shares the work

this is something we can do. This is a big job as it is no fun calling

companies. We need to work on a protocol and compile a list of questions

as the standard process that SCD'ers can go through when calling

companies. We need to work on this together! <<

One of the best ways to get them to take use seriously is to write

PHYSICAL letters requesting the information. At smaller companies, you

may get someone who knows their product if you telephone or email, or you

might not. At large companies, as I have discovered, you are more likely

to get some minimum wage flunky who will tell you whatever they think you

want to hear in order to get rid of your call and get on to the next one.

If we develop a standard form letter (and I can develop a letterhead for

us to use) to send out, that can work in our favor, too.

>> You are right this is ambitious. Let's start at what we have now

and recheck Elaine's list. I would dedeciate doing a product every month

or so, so I don't have burn out. <<

What products do you see on Elaine's list?

Welch's grape juice

Tropicana no-pulp OJ

Knudsen Just Juice line

Hunt's and 's tomato juices

Friendship Dairy DCCC

Western Dairy DCCC (in Canada)

Dole Pineapple in its own juice (this one I would check first, as they've

changed the label to " in pineapple juice " )

She mentions a lactose free sour cream, but no brand name, and I've never

seen one.

And that's about it.

>> Is that [other SCD groups accepting our list] so important? This

is our group and our analysis and guidelines, and each of the other

groups is welcome to agree or disagree and chose not to accept our

guidelines. OR they can chime in and help with the guidelines and the

work of compiling this library/list. If people question the veracity or

legality of things, they are welcome to pursue it on their own and make a

decision for themselves. Basically, that's what people ARE doing now. I

think that if we stick to the original purpose of compiling a convenience

list/library for reference purposes that can be offered after someone is

symptom free we may not get caught up in having to please everybody.

After all, if I understand it correctly, GAPS people allow things we

don't? <<

Valid point. And yes, GAPs allows things we do not. Conversely, SCD

allows some things which GAPs does not.

>> I would love to see the whole SCD community work together.. But

if they don't want to.. I think we with IBD doing the SCD should. <<

I'd like to see it done.

>> It's up to Marilyn if she wants to choose about something like

this herself. I do not envy Marilyn's position at all as she might wake

up in a $h & $ storm over this. The cocoa butter could of just been a

taste of whats to come.. This community is extremely rigid when it comes

to any type of change. I understand it too, since they hold the torch of

Elaine's work.. but in this instance about this issue Elaine's list is

dated and she delineated the protocol about getting letterheads. It was

Elaine's way.. We are just following through with what she taught us.

Unless going through the steps of obtaining a letterhead was so difficult

that this was an indirect way to discourage us from buying commercial

products although I don't feel that was what Elaine was about at all

since she herself approved a couple of products. She volunteered her time

from the goodness of her heart.. <<

I'm not keen about h-llstorms. At the same time, I recognize the need to

have an organized body of knowledge which reflects the issues we face --

food manufacturing changes to follow the profits, and it's very difficult

to keep up.

I don't think it's a matter of this community being resistant to change.

I think it is a matter of people having the time to do what needs to be

done. Moreover, as has been noted multiple times, people get well, and

then, for the most part, they bail out of the " newbie "

community. They get ON with their lives, lives in which IBD is no longer

the ruling event. Some of us, myself included, are just nuts enough to

stick around and try to help others carry on, and learn about the miracle

we've been handed, to keep it from disappearing, the way Dr. Haas' legacy

would have disappeared had Elaine not picked up the list.

I've tried my best to maintain a balance between rigid adherence to what

Elaine wrote and practicality. Trust me: practical is high on my list

these last few years, between Hurricane Katrina, cancer surgery, and now

my Mom's dementia.

>> I would also love to have Digestive Wellness's letterheads. I

would love to use bagged tea. <<

Well, then, getting scanned copies of their letters to post in our

library would be a great place to start.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

September 20, 2009

My 2 cents here- I agree that it is important to update Elaine's lists since

products do change over the years.

Right now I have several cans of Dole pineapple that I haven't eaten yet. I

assumed they were legal. Do I need to get another letter?

Thanks,

PJ