Re: We're All Crazy, For Why Else Would We Have To Have To See A Shrink?

April 9, 2001

--- Pflanz Leonard thepflanz@...> wrote:

> That many baryatric surgeons, and surgeons generally, are

> loath to follow up on their patients is not news. Many

> have a lousy after-the-operation attitude.

On the contrary, my surgeon has amazing follow up and is unlike any

other doctor I have ever been treated by. I think you would find this

to be true for most of the DS surgeons who tend to end up on pedestals

because they really are a different breed of doctor.

> You sound like a bunch of whimpering wimps so far, so

> I am not sanguine that any consciousness raising is

> possible in this group.

You would probably find it easier to converse with a group of people if

you were less offensive. I happen to agree that the psych evaluation is

probably overkill but I have a really hard time reading what you have

to say because you say it in such a condescending manner.

Me thinks you must be a troll. You certainly write and act like one.

=====

H

Dr. Keshishian 11-21-00

__________________________________________________

April 9, 2001

Dear kind lcp,

Oh come on, don't be shy. Tell us what you *really* think. LOL

As long as there are malpractice attorneys willing to sue any doctor for any

problem a patient has, most WLS surgeons will thing long and hard about

ignoring the NIH guidelines and taking on patients without knowing their

risk for non compliance.

I agree with much of what you have said regarding the lack of necessity for

much of the psych eval pre op for WLS. However it is also true that the way

society treats most MO folk is not conducive to good mental health.

FYI most transplant patients are required to have a thorough psychosocial

evaluation. I have seen folks turned down for the transplant list for mental

health reasons. Heart breaking at times.

Since you see the bariatric acceptance of the NIH guidelines as wrong. How

would you propose to so inform the bariatric surgery community and change

their behavior?

in Seattle

DS 1/5/01 295# BMI 47.6

4/5/01 240# BMI 38

Dr Welker - OHSU

----- Original Message -----

> Sorry, gang, if anyone thought that I was speaking for

> all fatties. What I was really interested in was

> speaking to all BPD/DS fatties and doing a little

> consciousness-raising. I am not a puff ball. I believe

> in freedom of preach! I want fat people to get a fair

> shake from the medical community. I want us to be

> treated like individuals, not as members of the fat

> group. This is what discrimination and prejudice are

> all about. Certainly the responses my words provoked

> were individualistic, even if some over-reacted or

> simply did not bother to assimilate what was before

> them.

>

> 's response was most thoughtful. Still, you canna

> have your cake and eat it too, dearie. Either fat

> people are being singled out for more than their share

> of stupid psych evaluations, which include the MMPI,

> or they are not. I think they are, and this is what B.

> was complaining about.

>

> What the baryatric community should be doing is making

> sure that every chronically and morbidly obese patient

> has a good relationship with his personal physician or

> other health care worker. Why? In order to deal with

> any post-op psychological needs of the patient

> relating to preop psychiatric problems or post-op

> weight loss-related depression, etc. Indeed, most

> personal physicians can handle the psychotropic

> medications of most patients, and most of us don't and

> won't need a specialist shrink. Indeed, I am in favor

> of most people having a psychologist or psychologist

> interview them because it is a potential learning

> opportunity. I am all for learning about ourselves,

> but I resent going just because I'm fat and some

> skinny jerk at the NIH thinks that fat people are

> nuts. The MMPI is definitely where I think it's not

> at.

>

> My point is that the psych evaluations in the

> baryatric community are not being done to all lung

> cancer treatment patients prior to chemotherapy or

> radiation or surgery or to all the cirrhosis patients

> prior to having a liver transplant or treatment or to

> all AIDS patients. This is in spite of the fact that

> all three groups contain numbers of patients with

> serious and severe mental disorders, many of which get

> ignored and are untreated. Still, only the fatties

> have to get psyched out. This is hardly guantum

> mechanics.

>

> I have a neighbor, for example, that has been treated

> for lung cancer, which is in permanent remission. He

> continues to smoke and suffer from a plethora of

> smoking related psychiatric problems, most of which

> are undiagnosed. [There is, I believe, an end-stage

> smoking syndrome that afflicts many long-time smokers

> characterized by depression, procrastination, and

> withdrawal.]

>

> Fat people are being singled out for stupid psych

> work-ups with psych tests in them because a few of our

> number have preoperative psychological problems of a

> severe kind related to their obesity and cannot be

> counted on to observe the dietary necessities invited

> by the baryatric surgery.

>

> This still is not a good reason for all of us to have

> these psych work-ups even if our beloved NIH says

> otherwise. The NIH is a political insitution and

> objectivity is often lacking in its pronouncements, as

> its views on AIDS, for example, has shown. The Federal

> Government has no constitutional role to play in

> health care, frankly, unless you wish to believe that

> health care falls under the " commerce clause " in the

> Constitution and your ises are like the previous

> president's did.

>

> That the NIH is at the center of this discriminatory

> practice should not surprise anyone who is a student

> of totalitarianism and discrimination, which I am.

> Read Article I, Section 8, clauses 1-18. The powers

> of the Congress are detailed therein, and there is

> not, even by penumbra, a single mention of health care

> there or elsewhere in that charter. I doubt that our

> forefathers who passed the Constitution would approve

> how it is being ignored by the Beltway and a

> dumbed-down people.

>

> What's wrong with this business is that, thanks to a

> one-size-fits-all mindset from a top-down and illegal

> government medical quango, we are not being treated as

> individuals but as members of a group. I am then, not

> in favor of making this preop a no-brainer for the

> overpaid surgeons. Let fall on the shoulders of these

> overpaid and overworshipped baryatric technicians the

> responsibility of making sure that those select

> patients with psych histories and probable need of a

> proper psych interview work-up be singled out. That

> many baryatric surgeons, and surgeons generally, are

> loath to follow up on their patients is not news. Many

> have a lousy after-the-operation attitude.

>

> In short, the NIH guidelines relating to weight-loss

> surgery are wrong, discriminatory, and a waste of

> patient time and money. Baryatric surgeons falling

> victim to these biased and prejudicial views need to

> be told they are following discriminatory practices.

>

> You sound like a bunch of whimpering wimps so far, so

> I am not sanguine that any consciousness raising is

> possible in this group. Is there anyone out there with

> the guts to point out this instance of

> guideline-related discrimination originating with the

> Federal Government to their surgeon or shrink?

>

> I guess I must be cracked to have hoped otherwise.

> Maybe I'll have to see a shrink about it....

>

> Most sincerely and sweetly yours,

>

> lcp

>

> --- Montgomery marym@...> wrote:

> > As a person who does psych evaluations on a daily

> > basis, I have long opposed

> > the need for the type of psych evals required pre op

> > fro WLS. I do think

> > that there are a couple of things that the surgeon

> > needs to know. One is

> > whether or not the patient is competent to make the

> > decision to have the

> > surgery and maintain the life long vigilance to

> > avoid malnutrition. The

> > second is whether or not the patient has a mental

> > health disorder that may,

> > at times, so cloud their judgment that they believe

> > they do not need to

> > comply with the post op requirements to maintain

> > good health.

> >

> > The reason that most surgeons require the psych eval

> > is because it is part

> > of the NIH guidelines for surgery. And there are a

> > few notable cases where

> > the cognitive function or the mental health of the

> > post op patent was so

> > impaired that they put their life at risk with non

> > compliance.

> >

> > My personal bias is that pre ops find a therapist in

> > their own community

> > that they feel comfortable working with. And that

> > each pre op make an

> > agreement to see that person in the event of onset

> > of depression or great

> > life stress post op.

> >

> > The use of the MMPI and other psychological tools

> > for the pre op WLS is pure

> > nonsense. Except that if the post op patient fails

> > to do what is needed to

> > stay healthy the surgeon can't be sued for this.

> > After all, they relied on

> > another professional for this information. The

> > professional literature

> > indicates that there is no relationship between the

> > results of these tests

> > and WLS outcomes. Reliance on these rather than a

> > thorough personal

> > interview with the patient is indicative of how

> > little most surgeons know

> > about the mental health profession. Some of the

> > surgeons ask for a simple

> > letter from a professional saying that the patient

> > understand the surgery,

> > has realistic expectations regarding outcomes, has

> > no apparent personality

> > issues that would impair compliance, and is able to

> > make this decision.

> >

> > Seeing a " shrink " has nothing to do with being

> > crazy. Being depressed,

> > having PTSD, being under great stress, and having

> > emotional pain happen to

> > people during life. Seeing a professional for these

> > can make some sense.

> > Suggesting that anyone who sees a mental health

> > professional is " crazy " is a

> > barbaric notion. I'm sure that you wouldn't

> > intentionally insult the many

> > people on this list who seek such professional help.

> >

> > in Seattle

> > DS 1/5/01 295# BMI 47.6

> > 4/5/01 240# BMI 38

> > Dr Welker - OHSU

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> >

> > > I'm not crazy; I'm just fat.

> > >

> > > Why the waste of good money seeing psychologists

> > and

> > > psychiatrists before baryatric surgery? If a woman

> > > gets plastic surgery for a face lift or her boobs,

> > she

> > > doesn't have to see a shrink beforehand.

April 9, 2001

Dear kind lcp,

Oh come on, don't be shy. Tell us what you *really* think. LOL

As long as there are malpractice attorneys willing to sue any doctor for any

problem a patient has, most WLS surgeons will thing long and hard about

ignoring the NIH guidelines and taking on patients without knowing their

risk for non compliance.

I agree with much of what you have said regarding the lack of necessity for

much of the psych eval pre op for WLS. However it is also true that the way

society treats most MO folk is not conducive to good mental health.

FYI most transplant patients are required to have a thorough psychosocial

evaluation. I have seen folks turned down for the transplant list for mental

health reasons. Heart breaking at times.

Since you see the bariatric acceptance of the NIH guidelines as wrong. How

would you propose to so inform the bariatric surgery community and change

their behavior?

in Seattle

DS 1/5/01 295# BMI 47.6

4/5/01 240# BMI 38

Dr Welker - OHSU

----- Original Message -----

> Sorry, gang, if anyone thought that I was speaking for

> all fatties. What I was really interested in was

> speaking to all BPD/DS fatties and doing a little

> consciousness-raising. I am not a puff ball. I believe

> in freedom of preach! I want fat people to get a fair

> shake from the medical community. I want us to be

> treated like individuals, not as members of the fat

> group. This is what discrimination and prejudice are

> all about. Certainly the responses my words provoked

> were individualistic, even if some over-reacted or

> simply did not bother to assimilate what was before

> them.

>

> 's response was most thoughtful. Still, you canna

> have your cake and eat it too, dearie. Either fat

> people are being singled out for more than their share

> of stupid psych evaluations, which include the MMPI,

> or they are not. I think they are, and this is what B.

> was complaining about.

>

> What the baryatric community should be doing is making

> sure that every chronically and morbidly obese patient

> has a good relationship with his personal physician or

> other health care worker. Why? In order to deal with

> any post-op psychological needs of the patient

> relating to preop psychiatric problems or post-op

> weight loss-related depression, etc. Indeed, most

> personal physicians can handle the psychotropic

> medications of most patients, and most of us don't and

> won't need a specialist shrink. Indeed, I am in favor

> of most people having a psychologist or psychologist

> interview them because it is a potential learning

> opportunity. I am all for learning about ourselves,

> but I resent going just because I'm fat and some

> skinny jerk at the NIH thinks that fat people are

> nuts. The MMPI is definitely where I think it's not

> at.

>

> My point is that the psych evaluations in the

> baryatric community are not being done to all lung

> cancer treatment patients prior to chemotherapy or

> radiation or surgery or to all the cirrhosis patients

> prior to having a liver transplant or treatment or to

> all AIDS patients. This is in spite of the fact that

> all three groups contain numbers of patients with

> serious and severe mental disorders, many of which get

> ignored and are untreated. Still, only the fatties

> have to get psyched out. This is hardly guantum

> mechanics.

>

> I have a neighbor, for example, that has been treated

> for lung cancer, which is in permanent remission. He

> continues to smoke and suffer from a plethora of

> smoking related psychiatric problems, most of which

> are undiagnosed. [There is, I believe, an end-stage

> smoking syndrome that afflicts many long-time smokers

> characterized by depression, procrastination, and

> withdrawal.]

>

> Fat people are being singled out for stupid psych

> work-ups with psych tests in them because a few of our

> number have preoperative psychological problems of a

> severe kind related to their obesity and cannot be

> counted on to observe the dietary necessities invited

> by the baryatric surgery.

>

> This still is not a good reason for all of us to have

> these psych work-ups even if our beloved NIH says

> otherwise. The NIH is a political insitution and

> objectivity is often lacking in its pronouncements, as

> its views on AIDS, for example, has shown. The Federal

> Government has no constitutional role to play in

> health care, frankly, unless you wish to believe that

> health care falls under the " commerce clause " in the

> Constitution and your ises are like the previous

> president's did.

>

> That the NIH is at the center of this discriminatory

> practice should not surprise anyone who is a student

> of totalitarianism and discrimination, which I am.

> Read Article I, Section 8, clauses 1-18. The powers

> of the Congress are detailed therein, and there is

> not, even by penumbra, a single mention of health care

> there or elsewhere in that charter. I doubt that our

> forefathers who passed the Constitution would approve

> how it is being ignored by the Beltway and a

> dumbed-down people.

>

> What's wrong with this business is that, thanks to a

> one-size-fits-all mindset from a top-down and illegal

> government medical quango, we are not being treated as

> individuals but as members of a group. I am then, not

> in favor of making this preop a no-brainer for the

> overpaid surgeons. Let fall on the shoulders of these

> overpaid and overworshipped baryatric technicians the

> responsibility of making sure that those select

> patients with psych histories and probable need of a

> proper psych interview work-up be singled out. That

> many baryatric surgeons, and surgeons generally, are

> loath to follow up on their patients is not news. Many

> have a lousy after-the-operation attitude.

>

> In short, the NIH guidelines relating to weight-loss

> surgery are wrong, discriminatory, and a waste of

> patient time and money. Baryatric surgeons falling

> victim to these biased and prejudicial views need to

> be told they are following discriminatory practices.

>

> You sound like a bunch of whimpering wimps so far, so

> I am not sanguine that any consciousness raising is

> possible in this group. Is there anyone out there with

> the guts to point out this instance of

> guideline-related discrimination originating with the

> Federal Government to their surgeon or shrink?

>

> I guess I must be cracked to have hoped otherwise.

> Maybe I'll have to see a shrink about it....

>

> Most sincerely and sweetly yours,

>

> lcp

>

> --- Montgomery marym@...> wrote:

> > As a person who does psych evaluations on a daily

> > basis, I have long opposed

> > the need for the type of psych evals required pre op

> > fro WLS. I do think

> > that there are a couple of things that the surgeon

> > needs to know. One is

> > whether or not the patient is competent to make the

> > decision to have the

> > surgery and maintain the life long vigilance to

> > avoid malnutrition. The

> > second is whether or not the patient has a mental

> > health disorder that may,

> > at times, so cloud their judgment that they believe

> > they do not need to

> > comply with the post op requirements to maintain

> > good health.

> >

> > The reason that most surgeons require the psych eval

> > is because it is part

> > of the NIH guidelines for surgery. And there are a

> > few notable cases where

> > the cognitive function or the mental health of the

> > post op patent was so

> > impaired that they put their life at risk with non

> > compliance.

> >

> > My personal bias is that pre ops find a therapist in

> > their own community

> > that they feel comfortable working with. And that

> > each pre op make an

> > agreement to see that person in the event of onset

> > of depression or great

> > life stress post op.

> >

> > The use of the MMPI and other psychological tools

> > for the pre op WLS is pure

> > nonsense. Except that if the post op patient fails

> > to do what is needed to

> > stay healthy the surgeon can't be sued for this.

> > After all, they relied on

> > another professional for this information. The

> > professional literature

> > indicates that there is no relationship between the

> > results of these tests

> > and WLS outcomes. Reliance on these rather than a

> > thorough personal

> > interview with the patient is indicative of how

> > little most surgeons know

> > about the mental health profession. Some of the

> > surgeons ask for a simple

> > letter from a professional saying that the patient

> > understand the surgery,

> > has realistic expectations regarding outcomes, has

> > no apparent personality

> > issues that would impair compliance, and is able to

> > make this decision.

> >

> > Seeing a " shrink " has nothing to do with being

> > crazy. Being depressed,

> > having PTSD, being under great stress, and having

> > emotional pain happen to

> > people during life. Seeing a professional for these

> > can make some sense.

> > Suggesting that anyone who sees a mental health

> > professional is " crazy " is a

> > barbaric notion. I'm sure that you wouldn't

> > intentionally insult the many

> > people on this list who seek such professional help.

> >

> > in Seattle

> > DS 1/5/01 295# BMI 47.6

> > 4/5/01 240# BMI 38

> > Dr Welker - OHSU

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> >

> > > I'm not crazy; I'm just fat.

> > >

> > > Why the waste of good money seeing psychologists

> > and

> > > psychiatrists before baryatric surgery? If a woman

> > > gets plastic surgery for a face lift or her boobs,

> > she

> > > doesn't have to see a shrink beforehand.

April 9, 2001

Dear kind lcp,

Oh come on, don't be shy. Tell us what you *really* think. LOL

As long as there are malpractice attorneys willing to sue any doctor for any

problem a patient has, most WLS surgeons will thing long and hard about

ignoring the NIH guidelines and taking on patients without knowing their

risk for non compliance.

I agree with much of what you have said regarding the lack of necessity for

much of the psych eval pre op for WLS. However it is also true that the way

society treats most MO folk is not conducive to good mental health.

FYI most transplant patients are required to have a thorough psychosocial

evaluation. I have seen folks turned down for the transplant list for mental

health reasons. Heart breaking at times.

Since you see the bariatric acceptance of the NIH guidelines as wrong. How

would you propose to so inform the bariatric surgery community and change

their behavior?

in Seattle

DS 1/5/01 295# BMI 47.6

4/5/01 240# BMI 38

Dr Welker - OHSU

----- Original Message -----

> Sorry, gang, if anyone thought that I was speaking for

> all fatties. What I was really interested in was

> speaking to all BPD/DS fatties and doing a little

> consciousness-raising. I am not a puff ball. I believe

> in freedom of preach! I want fat people to get a fair

> shake from the medical community. I want us to be

> treated like individuals, not as members of the fat

> group. This is what discrimination and prejudice are

> all about. Certainly the responses my words provoked

> were individualistic, even if some over-reacted or

> simply did not bother to assimilate what was before

> them.

>

> 's response was most thoughtful. Still, you canna

> have your cake and eat it too, dearie. Either fat

> people are being singled out for more than their share

> of stupid psych evaluations, which include the MMPI,

> or they are not. I think they are, and this is what B.

> was complaining about.

>

> What the baryatric community should be doing is making

> sure that every chronically and morbidly obese patient

> has a good relationship with his personal physician or

> other health care worker. Why? In order to deal with

> any post-op psychological needs of the patient

> relating to preop psychiatric problems or post-op

> weight loss-related depression, etc. Indeed, most

> personal physicians can handle the psychotropic

> medications of most patients, and most of us don't and

> won't need a specialist shrink. Indeed, I am in favor

> of most people having a psychologist or psychologist

> interview them because it is a potential learning

> opportunity. I am all for learning about ourselves,

> but I resent going just because I'm fat and some

> skinny jerk at the NIH thinks that fat people are

> nuts. The MMPI is definitely where I think it's not

> at.

>

> My point is that the psych evaluations in the

> baryatric community are not being done to all lung

> cancer treatment patients prior to chemotherapy or

> radiation or surgery or to all the cirrhosis patients

> prior to having a liver transplant or treatment or to

> all AIDS patients. This is in spite of the fact that

> all three groups contain numbers of patients with

> serious and severe mental disorders, many of which get

> ignored and are untreated. Still, only the fatties

> have to get psyched out. This is hardly guantum

> mechanics.

>

> I have a neighbor, for example, that has been treated

> for lung cancer, which is in permanent remission. He

> continues to smoke and suffer from a plethora of

> smoking related psychiatric problems, most of which

> are undiagnosed. [There is, I believe, an end-stage

> smoking syndrome that afflicts many long-time smokers

> characterized by depression, procrastination, and

> withdrawal.]

>

> Fat people are being singled out for stupid psych

> work-ups with psych tests in them because a few of our

> number have preoperative psychological problems of a

> severe kind related to their obesity and cannot be

> counted on to observe the dietary necessities invited

> by the baryatric surgery.

>

> This still is not a good reason for all of us to have

> these psych work-ups even if our beloved NIH says

> otherwise. The NIH is a political insitution and

> objectivity is often lacking in its pronouncements, as

> its views on AIDS, for example, has shown. The Federal

> Government has no constitutional role to play in

> health care, frankly, unless you wish to believe that

> health care falls under the " commerce clause " in the

> Constitution and your ises are like the previous

> president's did.

>

> That the NIH is at the center of this discriminatory

> practice should not surprise anyone who is a student

> of totalitarianism and discrimination, which I am.

> Read Article I, Section 8, clauses 1-18. The powers

> of the Congress are detailed therein, and there is

> not, even by penumbra, a single mention of health care

> there or elsewhere in that charter. I doubt that our

> forefathers who passed the Constitution would approve

> how it is being ignored by the Beltway and a

> dumbed-down people.

>

> What's wrong with this business is that, thanks to a

> one-size-fits-all mindset from a top-down and illegal

> government medical quango, we are not being treated as

> individuals but as members of a group. I am then, not

> in favor of making this preop a no-brainer for the

> overpaid surgeons. Let fall on the shoulders of these

> overpaid and overworshipped baryatric technicians the

> responsibility of making sure that those select

> patients with psych histories and probable need of a

> proper psych interview work-up be singled out. That

> many baryatric surgeons, and surgeons generally, are

> loath to follow up on their patients is not news. Many

> have a lousy after-the-operation attitude.

>

> In short, the NIH guidelines relating to weight-loss

> surgery are wrong, discriminatory, and a waste of

> patient time and money. Baryatric surgeons falling

> victim to these biased and prejudicial views need to

> be told they are following discriminatory practices.

>

> You sound like a bunch of whimpering wimps so far, so

> I am not sanguine that any consciousness raising is

> possible in this group. Is there anyone out there with

> the guts to point out this instance of

> guideline-related discrimination originating with the

> Federal Government to their surgeon or shrink?

>

> I guess I must be cracked to have hoped otherwise.

> Maybe I'll have to see a shrink about it....

>

> Most sincerely and sweetly yours,

>

> lcp

>

> --- Montgomery marym@...> wrote:

> > As a person who does psych evaluations on a daily

> > basis, I have long opposed

> > the need for the type of psych evals required pre op

> > fro WLS. I do think

> > that there are a couple of things that the surgeon

> > needs to know. One is

> > whether or not the patient is competent to make the

> > decision to have the

> > surgery and maintain the life long vigilance to

> > avoid malnutrition. The

> > second is whether or not the patient has a mental

> > health disorder that may,

> > at times, so cloud their judgment that they believe

> > they do not need to

> > comply with the post op requirements to maintain

> > good health.

> >

> > The reason that most surgeons require the psych eval

> > is because it is part

> > of the NIH guidelines for surgery. And there are a

> > few notable cases where

> > the cognitive function or the mental health of the

> > post op patent was so

> > impaired that they put their life at risk with non

> > compliance.

> >

> > My personal bias is that pre ops find a therapist in

> > their own community

> > that they feel comfortable working with. And that

> > each pre op make an

> > agreement to see that person in the event of onset

> > of depression or great

> > life stress post op.

> >

> > The use of the MMPI and other psychological tools

> > for the pre op WLS is pure

> > nonsense. Except that if the post op patient fails

> > to do what is needed to

> > stay healthy the surgeon can't be sued for this.

> > After all, they relied on

> > another professional for this information. The

> > professional literature

> > indicates that there is no relationship between the

> > results of these tests

> > and WLS outcomes. Reliance on these rather than a

> > thorough personal

> > interview with the patient is indicative of how

> > little most surgeons know

> > about the mental health profession. Some of the

> > surgeons ask for a simple

> > letter from a professional saying that the patient

> > understand the surgery,

> > has realistic expectations regarding outcomes, has

> > no apparent personality

> > issues that would impair compliance, and is able to

> > make this decision.

> >

> > Seeing a " shrink " has nothing to do with being

> > crazy. Being depressed,

> > having PTSD, being under great stress, and having

> > emotional pain happen to

> > people during life. Seeing a professional for these

> > can make some sense.

> > Suggesting that anyone who sees a mental health

> > professional is " crazy " is a

> > barbaric notion. I'm sure that you wouldn't

> > intentionally insult the many

> > people on this list who seek such professional help.

> >

> > in Seattle

> > DS 1/5/01 295# BMI 47.6

> > 4/5/01 240# BMI 38

> > Dr Welker - OHSU

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> >

> > > I'm not crazy; I'm just fat.

> > >

> > > Why the waste of good money seeing psychologists

> > and

> > > psychiatrists before baryatric surgery? If a woman

> > > gets plastic surgery for a face lift or her boobs,

> > she

> > > doesn't have to see a shrink beforehand.

April 10, 2001

> Dear kind lcp,

> Oh come on, don't be shy. Tell us what you *really* think. LOL

I think Leonard just likes to see his words on the screen.. I'm really

tired of reading the extremely redundant, extremely pompous, very long

diatribes. Yes, fat folk are discriminated against, BUT-- I think the

psych eval has a valid place as long as UNNECCESSARY tests, such as

the MMPI, are left off.. I was forced to take the MMPI once, & the

psychiatrist told me it revealed that I was very angry... I smiled

sweetly, and told him, " Well, gee whiz, wouldn't you be furious if you

spent 30 thou on your education & then, because you were truthful when

asked about being depressed, were told you couldn't use your education

until visiting a little troll of a psychiatrist? " I mean, duh- yes,

evaluate whether I'll be compliant with aftercare.. but don't make us

pay for unneccessary testing. If you know how to change things

Leonard, go for it. But spare me your repetitive namecalling.. And as

Ciar said.. some of us are into bloodsport.

Liane

April 10, 2001