Guest guest Posted April 11, 2001 Report Share Posted April 11, 2001 Hi - I have just read a rather interesting thread... about me. I will address a couple of quotes: <<Sue Widemark is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.. She's like the "know it all" neighbor everyone has- even if she's not researched it, she knows all about it & you can't change her mind with facts. I read her site and a lot of her claims are simply not true.>> I have invited everyone to post cited material "proving" I'm wrong (what I post IS cited). To date no one has done this. Insults seem the preferred way of disproving something. TO me they prove nothing other than that the insulter may be somewhat "courtesy-challenged". <<Please do not give Sue's remarks a second thought. She knows absolutelyNOTHING of any facts about wls, she just says bad things about all of themand uses scare tactics to make people think that HER way (diet and exercise)is the only way people should be doing things. She is just a windbag with abig mouth. Don't worry! I have never said "my way" is the only way. It's just an alternative to WLS which does work. which folks may not hear about because the media is selling something else. Which has worked for many. Do you feel that alternatives to surgery should remain a dark secret? Windbag? I guess I'll take that... my mouth IS a well developed muscle of mine (but I read something that folks who talk and smile a lot have less wrinkles... I really believe that! lololol) <- kidding... << If you have any specific questions that you want answered by people who havebeen there and done that, please send them along, OK? We will do our bestto give you the facts, not fantasies.>> By that logic, someone who has jumped off a tall building would be the best authority about the dangers of jumping from a tall building ... not so sure that works. Post ops especially less than a couple of years, who might be under-researched may not be the best source of info. There is a post op list that is good though: http://yahoo.groups.com/group/Graduate-OSSG People on this list are experiencing and dealing with some of the stated complications of surgery. Lurking it is a real good idea - take the time to read all the messages over a period of time. To join, send a blank email to: Graduate-OSSG-subscribe <<She has a son who is a nurse practitioner so somehow that makes her think she is in the medical profession. >> lolol... if you only knew. He's a normal son who generally thinks Mom doesn't know that much (and reminds me often). However, on the occasion that he compliments my research or articles, it's a great feeling for me. He also links my site on gastric bypass to his informational site for Nurse Practitioners and I am very complimented about that. I didn't even know he did that until a few months ago! <<She lost her weight by exercising everyday for hours and really limiting her fat intake.>> This is somewhat true except the "exercising for hours everyday". I go through times when I want to athletically train and then, times when my 56 year old body says "forget that!". I'm in a 'forget that' period now. So I work out for 40-50 minutes each day. I do limit my fat intake. Many WLS post ops do so also (1) because they eat drastically less and (2) because they get the runs if they don't limit fat intake. Why is it acceptable for surgical post ops to diet restrict and not for a NON post op? You accuse me of 'judging' you but aren't you "judging me"? Also, one of your members here is training for a triathalon - if you know what that entails, it's several hours of exercise a day. Is that more acceptable just because she IS a post op? Sounds like a double standard to me. << IF you read her posts often enough, I think she is just jealous that she didn't know enough about wls before she did what she did. I know one thing, I wouldn't want to be her. Get a life.>> If I wanted surgery, it wouldn't be hard to gain the weight back and be 'eligible' again. If they ever get a surgery which is non invasive and 'safe' I might be the first in line. But right now, I think we all suffer some sort of pain and/or inconvenience to control our weight. I feel what I choose is more appropriate for my lifestyle than what surgery (at present) offers. <<To tell you how ignorant she is, she was for awhile pushing the Rutledge surgery that the ABSB is so opposed to. >> I have never 'pushed' the MGB. I simply don't see from the "proof" which was offered, how this procedure is any MORE dangerous than any other gastric bypass. Also, the ASBS (that was what you meant to say, right?) doesn't ban any surgery, not even the JIB which some STILL do today (although the ASBS states the JIB is not recommended, it also goes on to say that the complications of the JIB might be also, at least somewhat, expected of ANY surgery involving mal-absorption). There are a few surgeons who are quoted on a website owned by the Alvarado Clinic who mildly object to the MGB and then link the website of a patient who is very upset with the surgeon (he didn't hire her on staff when she needed a job) as well as the procedure. The MGB is a loop gastric bypass which was an older version of the RNY. Rutledge has made a modification which he feels makes the surgery safer and by the large number of patients who have had the surgery and are pleased with it, there seems to be some truth in what he claims. The procedure is under investigation right now so one of these days, we'll all have the facts on it. Norman Ackerman, MD, author of the book, FAT NO MORE (NY, 1999) - available on www.amazon.com , prefers the OLD loop gastric bypass to the RNY and gives several reasons for his feeling. There is a lot of disagreement among surgeons about these procedures. For example, some of the surgeons on the anti-MGB site have also spoken against the DS/BPD. <<She has been banned from several other lists.>> LInda 's (the MGB patient who is upset above) list is not 'several lists'. Meli and M who spoke against me are loyal supporters, by the way. Several of us were banned from that list as doesn't want opposing opinions on her list (not too different from many list owners). I was the first to be banned and the one who made her be more honest about it being a censored list - she was censoring people using questionable methods like calling them at work and embarrassing them etc. Now she uses more conventional methods (through the list software) to censor folks. Her right. But not necessarily my wrong. <<Sue Widemark is one of those people who won't listen to reason about anything. >> On the contrary, I would love to have someone disprove my claims or things I discovered in a research which is getting towards the two year point now. But so far, no luck. I continue to search and wait though. <<She also has another e-group whose topic for discussion is how the media falsely portrays childbirth to be painful so that more people will have abortions....>> lol - this was from a comment I made suggesting that often the negative side of childbirth is shown on TV because the society is down on reproduction right now (rather foolish of them since a society which does not reproduce is doomed to die out- one only need to observe the Shakers to see that in action). I do run another group (not on yahoogroups.com) is a 'life issues' list which carries all sorts of information about life issues. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've ever written about negative media views of childbirth causing more abortions although it might be good for a future topic. I have experienced childbirth and found it a snap. By the logic of several here, my view (as a person who has been through it) should weigh heavier than what is seen on TV, right? <<I can only surmise that she is jealous for some reason that she either couldn't get surgery or just didn't have the courage and builds herself up by putting others down. >> I have never put anyone down. (although many have put ME down). I ask questions about a risky procedure for which there appear to be no guarantees. I think prospective pre-ops should ask the same questions. Because those who are happy and successful with their surgery seem to be those who have deeply researched it, know exactly what they are getting into and feel that the benefits of the 'induced sickness' (as one surgeon put it) outweigh the risks. As for courage, don't you think it takes more courage TO speak what one feels is the truth even though it might be unpopular (the truth usually is unpopular for some reason). I have received countless emails from those who are less than pleased with the procedures however, because of the violent anger many WLS affectionados show at any hint of a darker side to the surgery, these people remain silent. That is a pity because others might be interested in their stories. Each person is different, reacts differently to the surgery. I don't know that the surgery (any surgery) is "bad" or inappropriate for anyone - I just feel the whole story should be told. Sue Widemark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 I have experienced childbirth and found it a snap HUH??????????? Lucky YOU! 36 hours of labor is NOT a snap! Again, lucky YOU. Loriann -----Original Message-----From: SueW Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 3:34 PMTo: duodenalswitch Subject: Sue Widemark - the facts Hi - I have just read a rather interesting thread... about me. I will address a couple of quotes: <<Sue Widemark is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.. She's like the "know it all" neighbor everyone has- even if she's not researched it, she knows all about it & you can't change her mind with facts. I read her site and a lot of her claims are simply not true.>> I have invited everyone to post cited material "proving" I'm wrong (what I post IS cited). To date no one has done this. Insults seem the preferred way of disproving something. TO me they prove nothing other than that the insulter may be somewhat "courtesy-challenged". <<Please do not give Sue's remarks a second thought. She knows absolutelyNOTHING of any facts about wls, she just says bad things about all of themand uses scare tactics to make people think that HER way (diet and exercise)is the only way people should be doing things. She is just a windbag with abig mouth. Don't worry! I have never said "my way" is the only way. It's just an alternative to WLS which does work. which folks may not hear about because the media is selling something else. Which has worked for many. Do you feel that alternatives to surgery should remain a dark secret? Windbag? I guess I'll take that... my mouth IS a well developed muscle of mine (but I read something that folks who talk and smile a lot have less wrinkles... I really believe that! lololol) <- kidding... << If you have any specific questions that you want answered by people who havebeen there and done that, please send them along, OK? We will do our bestto give you the facts, not fantasies.>> By that logic, someone who has jumped off a tall building would be the best authority about the dangers of jumping from a tall building ... not so sure that works. Post ops especially less than a couple of years, who might be under-researched may not be the best source of info. There is a post op list that is good though: http://yahoo.groups.com/group/Graduate-OSSG People on this list are experiencing and dealing with some of the stated complications of surgery. Lurking it is a real good idea - take the time to read all the messages over a period of time. To join, send a blank email to: Graduate-OSSG-subscribe <<She has a son who is a nurse practitioner so somehow that makes her think she is in the medical profession. >> lolol... if you only knew. He's a normal son who generally thinks Mom doesn't know that much (and reminds me often). However, on the occasion that he compliments my research or articles, it's a great feeling for me. He also links my site on gastric bypass to his informational site for Nurse Practitioners and I am very complimented about that. I didn't even know he did that until a few months ago! <<She lost her weight by exercising everyday for hours and really limiting her fat intake.>> This is somewhat true except the "exercising for hours everyday". I go through times when I want to athletically train and then, times when my 56 year old body says "forget that!". I'm in a 'forget that' period now. So I work out for 40-50 minutes each day. I do limit my fat intake. Many WLS post ops do so also (1) because they eat drastically less and (2) because they get the runs if they don't limit fat intake. Why is it acceptable for surgical post ops to diet restrict and not for a NON post op? You accuse me of 'judging' you but aren't you "judging me"? Also, one of your members here is training for a triathalon - if you know what that entails, it's several hours of exercise a day. Is that more acceptable just because she IS a post op? Sounds like a double standard to me. << IF you read her posts often enough, I think she is just jealous that she didn't know enough about wls before she did what she did. I know one thing, I wouldn't want to be her. Get a life.>> If I wanted surgery, it wouldn't be hard to gain the weight back and be 'eligible' again. If they ever get a surgery which is non invasive and 'safe' I might be the first in line. But right now, I think we all suffer some sort of pain and/or inconvenience to control our weight. I feel what I choose is more appropriate for my lifestyle than what surgery (at present) offers. <<To tell you how ignorant she is, she was for awhile pushing the Rutledge surgery that the ABSB is so opposed to. >> I have never 'pushed' the MGB. I simply don't see from the "proof" which was offered, how this procedure is any MORE dangerous than any other gastric bypass. Also, the ASBS (that was what you meant to say, right?) doesn't ban any surgery, not even the JIB which some STILL do today (although the ASBS states the JIB is not recommended, it also goes on to say that the complications of the JIB might be also, at least somewhat, expected of ANY surgery involving mal-absorption). There are a few surgeons who are quoted on a website owned by the Alvarado Clinic who mildly object to the MGB and then link the website of a patient who is very upset with the surgeon (he didn't hire her on staff when she needed a job) as well as the procedure. The MGB is a loop gastric bypass which was an older version of the RNY. Rutledge has made a modification which he feels makes the surgery safer and by the large number of patients who have had the surgery and are pleased with it, there seems to be some truth in what he claims. The procedure is under investigation right now so one of these days, we'll all have the facts on it. Norman Ackerman, MD, author of the book, FAT NO MORE (NY, 1999) - available on www.amazon.com , prefers the OLD loop gastric bypass to the RNY and gives several reasons for his feeling. There is a lot of disagreement among surgeons about these procedures. For example, some of the surgeons on the anti-MGB site have also spoken against the DS/BPD. <<She has been banned from several other lists.>> LInda 's (the MGB patient who is upset above) list is not 'several lists'. Meli and M who spoke against me are loyal supporters, by the way. Several of us were banned from that list as doesn't want opposing opinions on her list (not too different from many list owners). I was the first to be banned and the one who made her be more honest about it being a censored list - she was censoring people using questionable methods like calling them at work and embarrassing them etc. Now she uses more conventional methods (through the list software) to censor folks. Her right. But not necessarily my wrong. <<Sue Widemark is one of those people who won't listen to reason about anything. >> On the contrary, I would love to have someone disprove my claims or things I discovered in a research which is getting towards the two year point now. But so far, no luck. I continue to search and wait though. <<She also has another e-group whose topic for discussion is how the media falsely portrays childbirth to be painful so that more people will have abortions....>> lol - this was from a comment I made suggesting that often the negative side of childbirth is shown on TV because the society is down on reproduction right now (rather foolish of them since a society which does not reproduce is doomed to die out- one only need to observe the Shakers to see that in action). I do run another group (not on yahoogroups.com) is a 'life issues' list which carries all sorts of information about life issues. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've ever written about negative media views of childbirth causing more abortions although it might be good for a future topic. I have experienced childbirth and found it a snap. By the logic of several here, my view (as a person who has been through it) should weigh heavier than what is seen on TV, right? <<I can only surmise that she is jealous for some reason that she either couldn't get surgery or just didn't have the courage and builds herself up by putting others down. >> I have never put anyone down. (although many have put ME down). I ask questions about a risky procedure for which there appear to be no guarantees. I think prospective pre-ops should ask the same questions. Because those who are happy and successful with their surgery seem to be those who have deeply researched it, know exactly what they are getting into and feel that the benefits of the 'induced sickness' (as one surgeon put it) outweigh the risks. As for courage, don't you think it takes more courage TO speak what one feels is the truth even though it might be unpopular (the truth usually is unpopular for some reason). I have received countless emails from those who are less than pleased with the procedures however, because of the violent anger many WLS affectionados show at any hint of a darker side to the surgery, these people remain silent. That is a pity because others might be interested in their stories. Each person is different, reacts differently to the surgery. I don't know that the surgery (any surgery) is "bad" or inappropriate for anyone - I just feel the whole story should be told. Sue Widemark ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 >>>>>>patient who is very upset with the surgeon (he didn't hire her on staff when she needed a job) as well as the procedure.<<<<<<<< >>>>>>LInda 's (the MGB patient who is upset above)<<<<<<< Why in the hell would work in a Doctors office, she is an attorney? is upset because she had complications stemming from acid reflux. She is going to have her MGB converted to the RNY but has to wait until July (one year from the date of her surgery). She was a driving force in 6 women in Michigan getting the MGB approved through their insurance company. She now regrets that and has publicly apologized to these women (although none of them are having the same problems she is having, one of which works for the hospital that I work at and is having NO problems to date). did not receive answers to questions or help when she needed it from her surgeon, Dr Rutledge. Otherwise, no follow-up care, his answer was if she was still having problems at her 1 year anniversary then he would do a revision or a reversal. 1 year is a long time to wait when you are as sick as she is. As for her support group, she started one of her own because she was heckled off Dr Rutledge's support group when posted her story again and again when pre-op's asked questions about complications. 's techniques were not malicious ramblings but educated comments. Sue's remarks border on slander. is toooooo right in moderating her remarks on this forum. This is a place for pre-op's to focus on support and to get help in their research. Sue does not want the DS and she should not be allowed to use her propaganda here. We all have enough problems with trying to convince our doctors, insurance, significant others and loved ones. Sue is screwing with data to reinforce her own beliefs. To the pre-ops reading her comments and feeling the ground shake under you, I can only say, research, research, research. Do not allow comments made on this support group be your sole research. Come here to hear stories, and ask questions, but make sure you use this as a support group and not as a fact finding mission. Anybody can say anything they want and it is regarded as gospel by some. Do not be naive. Take the time to verify other's words and always ask yourself, what their agenda is. My mom always calls this kind of person a pot-stirrer. They are only happy when they are stirring the pot and causing trouble. I know everyone of us knows someone just like that. They love to smile in your face while they are sharpening the knife. LOL Viau, switched 3/29/01 http://www.angelfire.com/on/wannabemagic/WLS.html Dr Ren, NYUMC http://www.med.nyu.edu/bariatric/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 >>>>>>patient who is very upset with the surgeon (he didn't hire her on staff when she needed a job) as well as the procedure.<<<<<<<< >>>>>>LInda 's (the MGB patient who is upset above)<<<<<<< Why in the hell would work in a Doctors office, she is an attorney? is upset because she had complications stemming from acid reflux. She is going to have her MGB converted to the RNY but has to wait until July (one year from the date of her surgery). She was a driving force in 6 women in Michigan getting the MGB approved through their insurance company. She now regrets that and has publicly apologized to these women (although none of them are having the same problems she is having, one of which works for the hospital that I work at and is having NO problems to date). did not receive answers to questions or help when she needed it from her surgeon, Dr Rutledge. Otherwise, no follow-up care, his answer was if she was still having problems at her 1 year anniversary then he would do a revision or a reversal. 1 year is a long time to wait when you are as sick as she is. As for her support group, she started one of her own because she was heckled off Dr Rutledge's support group when posted her story again and again when pre-op's asked questions about complications. 's techniques were not malicious ramblings but educated comments. Sue's remarks border on slander. is toooooo right in moderating her remarks on this forum. This is a place for pre-op's to focus on support and to get help in their research. Sue does not want the DS and she should not be allowed to use her propaganda here. We all have enough problems with trying to convince our doctors, insurance, significant others and loved ones. Sue is screwing with data to reinforce her own beliefs. To the pre-ops reading her comments and feeling the ground shake under you, I can only say, research, research, research. Do not allow comments made on this support group be your sole research. Come here to hear stories, and ask questions, but make sure you use this as a support group and not as a fact finding mission. Anybody can say anything they want and it is regarded as gospel by some. Do not be naive. Take the time to verify other's words and always ask yourself, what their agenda is. My mom always calls this kind of person a pot-stirrer. They are only happy when they are stirring the pot and causing trouble. I know everyone of us knows someone just like that. They love to smile in your face while they are sharpening the knife. LOL Viau, switched 3/29/01 http://www.angelfire.com/on/wannabemagic/WLS.html Dr Ren, NYUMC http://www.med.nyu.edu/bariatric/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 >>>>>>patient who is very upset with the surgeon (he didn't hire her on staff when she needed a job) as well as the procedure.<<<<<<<< >>>>>>LInda 's (the MGB patient who is upset above)<<<<<<< Why in the hell would work in a Doctors office, she is an attorney? is upset because she had complications stemming from acid reflux. She is going to have her MGB converted to the RNY but has to wait until July (one year from the date of her surgery). She was a driving force in 6 women in Michigan getting the MGB approved through their insurance company. She now regrets that and has publicly apologized to these women (although none of them are having the same problems she is having, one of which works for the hospital that I work at and is having NO problems to date). did not receive answers to questions or help when she needed it from her surgeon, Dr Rutledge. Otherwise, no follow-up care, his answer was if she was still having problems at her 1 year anniversary then he would do a revision or a reversal. 1 year is a long time to wait when you are as sick as she is. As for her support group, she started one of her own because she was heckled off Dr Rutledge's support group when posted her story again and again when pre-op's asked questions about complications. 's techniques were not malicious ramblings but educated comments. Sue's remarks border on slander. is toooooo right in moderating her remarks on this forum. This is a place for pre-op's to focus on support and to get help in their research. Sue does not want the DS and she should not be allowed to use her propaganda here. We all have enough problems with trying to convince our doctors, insurance, significant others and loved ones. Sue is screwing with data to reinforce her own beliefs. To the pre-ops reading her comments and feeling the ground shake under you, I can only say, research, research, research. Do not allow comments made on this support group be your sole research. Come here to hear stories, and ask questions, but make sure you use this as a support group and not as a fact finding mission. Anybody can say anything they want and it is regarded as gospel by some. Do not be naive. Take the time to verify other's words and always ask yourself, what their agenda is. My mom always calls this kind of person a pot-stirrer. They are only happy when they are stirring the pot and causing trouble. I know everyone of us knows someone just like that. They love to smile in your face while they are sharpening the knife. LOL Viau, switched 3/29/01 http://www.angelfire.com/on/wannabemagic/WLS.html Dr Ren, NYUMC http://www.med.nyu.edu/bariatric/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 Well said, ! In spite of what Sue Widemark has announced elsewhere, she wasn't moderated here in order to censor out non- positive WLS info. Anyone who has been with us for any length of time knows that we freely discuss the good, bad and the ugly on this list! We simply don't need to be harangued by someone who clearly isn't in a supportive mode. wrote: >>>>> Sue is screwing with data to reinforce her own beliefs. To the pre-ops reading her comments and feeling the ground shake under you, I can only say, research, research, research. Do not allow comments made on this support group be your sole research. Come here to hear stories, and ask questions, but make sure you use this as a support group and not as a fact finding mission. Anybody can say anything they want and it is regarded as gospel by some. Do not be naive. Take the time to verify other's words and always ask yourself, what their agenda is. <<<<< Bravo, !!! M. --- in Lexington, MA, age 38 Starting weight 299, now 159 Starting BMI 49.7, now 26.5 Lap DGB/DS by Dr. Rabkin 10-19-99 http://www.duodenalswitch.com Direct replies: mailto:melanie@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 Well said, ! In spite of what Sue Widemark has announced elsewhere, she wasn't moderated here in order to censor out non- positive WLS info. Anyone who has been with us for any length of time knows that we freely discuss the good, bad and the ugly on this list! We simply don't need to be harangued by someone who clearly isn't in a supportive mode. wrote: >>>>> Sue is screwing with data to reinforce her own beliefs. To the pre-ops reading her comments and feeling the ground shake under you, I can only say, research, research, research. Do not allow comments made on this support group be your sole research. Come here to hear stories, and ask questions, but make sure you use this as a support group and not as a fact finding mission. Anybody can say anything they want and it is regarded as gospel by some. Do not be naive. Take the time to verify other's words and always ask yourself, what their agenda is. <<<<< Bravo, !!! M. --- in Lexington, MA, age 38 Starting weight 299, now 159 Starting BMI 49.7, now 26.5 Lap DGB/DS by Dr. Rabkin 10-19-99 http://www.duodenalswitch.com Direct replies: mailto:melanie@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 Well said, ! In spite of what Sue Widemark has announced elsewhere, she wasn't moderated here in order to censor out non- positive WLS info. Anyone who has been with us for any length of time knows that we freely discuss the good, bad and the ugly on this list! We simply don't need to be harangued by someone who clearly isn't in a supportive mode. wrote: >>>>> Sue is screwing with data to reinforce her own beliefs. To the pre-ops reading her comments and feeling the ground shake under you, I can only say, research, research, research. Do not allow comments made on this support group be your sole research. Come here to hear stories, and ask questions, but make sure you use this as a support group and not as a fact finding mission. Anybody can say anything they want and it is regarded as gospel by some. Do not be naive. Take the time to verify other's words and always ask yourself, what their agenda is. <<<<< Bravo, !!! M. --- in Lexington, MA, age 38 Starting weight 299, now 159 Starting BMI 49.7, now 26.5 Lap DGB/DS by Dr. Rabkin 10-19-99 http://www.duodenalswitch.com Direct replies: mailto:melanie@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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