To ERIKA/Re: Dr Ren [long] equally long

[Guest guest]

>

>

> i can't believe that you are dismissing her experience in this

way. i'm insulted by it and it's not even about me! get a FACIAL!

gobo, please get SERIOUS. have you not been paying attention?

but have a little f---ing compassion, man.

> thinking about things from her point of view before dismissing

her very real feelings and experience with rhetoric.

>

;

I had to think really hard about how to respond to your reply to my

post. You appear to be quite angry and you've made

assumptions about me that are absolutely incorrect.

I DO care very much about Deb as she goes through this

challenging ordeal. As we go through life, we can respond to

challenges in a way that facilitates our coping with it or we can

respond in a way that makes it more difficult. Someone once

said to me, " When you find yourself in `problem mode', get

out of problem and into solution. " A bit of anger can serve to

compel someone to act. I think that Deb's anger is working

against her because it's overwhelming her.

I am not naive enough to think that the activities I suggested are

Band-Aids that will make her problem go away. However, I do

know that whenever one has been sick a very long time, or

depressed an extended period of time, or even working too hard

for too long, things that are merely diversions serve to take one's

mind off the problem. Things that are pleasurable serve as a

respite from bearing a difficult burden. These things do not cure

ills in and of themselves; but they can serve as a life preserver

helping us to cope better.

I DO feel compassion for Deb. If I didn't I would not have taken

the time to contemplate what to write and then to post it. My

prayers are with Deb, but I pray that she copes with her life, not

`slay the dragon'. `Slaying the Dragon' speaks of anger, fight and

negativity. `Coping with her life' DOES NOT mean that she

just ignore the situation or simply `get over it'. It's not

that simple. My prayer that she copes with her life speaks of

healing. Healing includes treating ourselves. Part of that might

still include challenging Dr. Ren. Only Deb can decide that.

gobo

" Sometimes We Never Know How We Influence the Lives of

Others, Yet We Touch Those Lives Just the Same "

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/20/01 5:22:23 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<<

I didn't see Deb having any trouble communicating with Gobo. Maybe

two-sided conversations should remain just that, TWO sided. Then no

one feels ganged up on, no matter what the intentions...

My opinion is that everyone here seems to have pure intentions, and

maybe we should think about that when responding to each other.

>>

I totally agree here. I think that advice that is of a personal nature (i.e.

- involving someone's mental state, emotions, etc.) perhaps is better said in

a private e-mail to that particular person? Nothing wrong with posting it

here -- but it may get responses. If those responses are not exactly welcome

or feel like criticisms, etc. - then people can think they are unwelcome, etc.

I personally haven't felt that anything said has been an attack or that

anyone should 'shut up'. But, I also think that we'll all just have to agree

to disagree on this issue. Just because someone opposes one's views on a

certain subject does not mean that they will not be sympathetic on another.

Perhaps people just need to think about what posts are of a 'public nature'

or 'private nature' a bit more -- And send a private e-mail (which I think

Gobo even mentioned was previously done - then similar information was posted

here on the boards). IF something is posted here -- it should be expected

that some discord or disagreement *might* occur. There is no general

consensus -- just because a few people disagree with you doesn't mean the

entire group stands opposed to your viewpoints, etc.

There will be issues where people will strongly disagree. Everyone should be

entitled to present their viewpoints and if they are disagreed with people

should realize that if there is disagreement this does not mean they have to

quit the list, leave or feel they cannot speak again.

I totally agree that some communication should be left 'two-sided' and is

better left between the two individuals as private e-mails. If it becomes

'public', then realize that *may* become debatable!

all the best,

Noverr-Chin

co-moderator, Duodenalswitch

laparoscopic BPD/DS with gallbladder removal

Dr. Gagner/Dr. Quinn assisting/Mt. Sinai/NYC

January 25, 2001

87 days post-op and still feelin' fab!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 265 (I lost another pound yesterday!)/bmi 40

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/20/01 5:22:23 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<<

I didn't see Deb having any trouble communicating with Gobo. Maybe

two-sided conversations should remain just that, TWO sided. Then no

one feels ganged up on, no matter what the intentions...

My opinion is that everyone here seems to have pure intentions, and

maybe we should think about that when responding to each other.

>>

I totally agree here. I think that advice that is of a personal nature (i.e.

- involving someone's mental state, emotions, etc.) perhaps is better said in

a private e-mail to that particular person? Nothing wrong with posting it

here -- but it may get responses. If those responses are not exactly welcome

or feel like criticisms, etc. - then people can think they are unwelcome, etc.

I personally haven't felt that anything said has been an attack or that

anyone should 'shut up'. But, I also think that we'll all just have to agree

to disagree on this issue. Just because someone opposes one's views on a

certain subject does not mean that they will not be sympathetic on another.

Perhaps people just need to think about what posts are of a 'public nature'

or 'private nature' a bit more -- And send a private e-mail (which I think

Gobo even mentioned was previously done - then similar information was posted

here on the boards). IF something is posted here -- it should be expected

that some discord or disagreement *might* occur. There is no general

consensus -- just because a few people disagree with you doesn't mean the

entire group stands opposed to your viewpoints, etc.

There will be issues where people will strongly disagree. Everyone should be

entitled to present their viewpoints and if they are disagreed with people

should realize that if there is disagreement this does not mean they have to

quit the list, leave or feel they cannot speak again.

I totally agree that some communication should be left 'two-sided' and is

better left between the two individuals as private e-mails. If it becomes

'public', then realize that *may* become debatable!

all the best,

Noverr-Chin

co-moderator, Duodenalswitch

laparoscopic BPD/DS with gallbladder removal

Dr. Gagner/Dr. Quinn assisting/Mt. Sinai/NYC

January 25, 2001

87 days post-op and still feelin' fab!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 265 (I lost another pound yesterday!)/bmi 40

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/20/01 5:22:23 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<<

I didn't see Deb having any trouble communicating with Gobo. Maybe

two-sided conversations should remain just that, TWO sided. Then no

one feels ganged up on, no matter what the intentions...

My opinion is that everyone here seems to have pure intentions, and

maybe we should think about that when responding to each other.

>>

I totally agree here. I think that advice that is of a personal nature (i.e.

- involving someone's mental state, emotions, etc.) perhaps is better said in

a private e-mail to that particular person? Nothing wrong with posting it

here -- but it may get responses. If those responses are not exactly welcome

or feel like criticisms, etc. - then people can think they are unwelcome, etc.

I personally haven't felt that anything said has been an attack or that

anyone should 'shut up'. But, I also think that we'll all just have to agree

to disagree on this issue. Just because someone opposes one's views on a

certain subject does not mean that they will not be sympathetic on another.

Perhaps people just need to think about what posts are of a 'public nature'

or 'private nature' a bit more -- And send a private e-mail (which I think

Gobo even mentioned was previously done - then similar information was posted

here on the boards). IF something is posted here -- it should be expected

that some discord or disagreement *might* occur. There is no general

consensus -- just because a few people disagree with you doesn't mean the

entire group stands opposed to your viewpoints, etc.

There will be issues where people will strongly disagree. Everyone should be

entitled to present their viewpoints and if they are disagreed with people

should realize that if there is disagreement this does not mean they have to

quit the list, leave or feel they cannot speak again.

I totally agree that some communication should be left 'two-sided' and is

better left between the two individuals as private e-mails. If it becomes

'public', then realize that *may* become debatable!

all the best,

Noverr-Chin

co-moderator, Duodenalswitch

laparoscopic BPD/DS with gallbladder removal

Dr. Gagner/Dr. Quinn assisting/Mt. Sinai/NYC

January 25, 2001

87 days post-op and still feelin' fab!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 265 (I lost another pound yesterday!)/bmi 40