Re: Re: Enzyme Products and Soy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/14/2001 12:02:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,

selina_farrell@... writes:

> Feel free to " take or leave " what I have said

What I heard is that enzymes and soy can act like gluten in raising the

levels but do not contain gluten.

[Guest guest]

They are hundreds of examples we hear of parents that had their child's test

results show an increase in peptides even though they have are on a strict

casein and gluten free diet. This is true whether they are eating soy

products or taking enzymes. Many of these comments have also been on the

chat groups. Parents are confused. These tests are expensive.

When a child is first tested while eating a great deal of casein and gluten

products and then after months on a very strick diet have those levels

actual increase on a second test is not possible. The first question would

be how accurate is the test and really what does it measure? Is the test

certified?

Most of us familiar with this test understand the reason. This tests are

prone to false postives and can pick up readings on harmless peptides.

Different test methods that are more accurate do not show these inconsistent

results.

EnzymAid does not contain any gluten or casien. This is not an opinion but a

fact. This enzyme also digests casein and gluten and this is also a fact and

not an opinion.

At the same time any suppliment can be beneficial or cause side effects.

It is good that your child is improving and I am not blaming you for being

confused.

Thanks.

Humphrey

President

Kirkman Laboratories, Inc.

Re: Enzyme Products and Soy

To all who have participated in this discussion,

I feel I should comment as I am the Mom who made the original post

about enzyme products and soy. I will say for a fact that a

knowledgable person at one of the major labs advised me that the

enzyme products might be a problem on a GFCF diet. Another Mom in my

area called the lab to confirm and heard the same thing I did. Ditto

about soy. I know very well what these enzyme products were

developed to do -- i.e., eliminate gluten and casein peptides from

the body. However, for whatever reason (maybe the scientists don't

even understand yet!) my son's gluten peptides rose dramatically

after 5 months on the diet, despite our strict and careful adherence

to the diet. I was advised by the person I spoke with to eliminate

the enzyme products and the soy, and I did so immediately. Within

just days, we have been seeing the first benefits from being on the

diet -- basically, decreased stimming and zoning out.

I assure you that might intent was not to spread any " rumor, " but

only to pass on helpful information that I heard from a reliable

source. The person who told me this information did not profess to

understand the phenomenon of children whose gluten peptides increased

(according to testing) after being on the diet. The person only told

me the trend she was noticing -- based on experience reviewing these

tests -- that children taking the enzyme products and/or soy

sometimes had increased gluten peptides despite strict adherence to

the diet. While I wonder how enzyme products and soy could possibly

have caused this to happen in my son's case, I did not question the

messenger. I only thanked her for her helpful information and

immediately put her advice into action.

I am thankful that the person was willing to make an honest

recommendation to me about the trend she was noticing. Otherwise, we

would not have found one of the puzzle pieces helpful to my son.

Feel free to " take or leave " what I have said. I only offer it to be

helpful to those who will listen. I think an open mind is always

best when dealing with a scientific issue that is basically in the

experimental stages at this point in time.

All the best,

Selina

> > > Selina,

> > >

> > > We did not have peptide testing done before going gfcf in April

> of

> > 2000.

> > > I have only observation to back up what I noticed with our

son.

> To

> > > replace the dairy we switched to soy, but after 2 months we

began

> to

> > > notice some of the same problems we had with the dairy such as

> > gagging on

> > > food, loss of appetite and loss of speech. We saw great

> > improvements

> > > when we took him off of the soy and began using rice protein

> powder

> > for

> > > his main source of protein, Mott's OJ in the little boxes and

> rice

> > milk

> > > for his liquids. In December I figured out that the pea

protein

> in

> > the

> > > rice milk was also a problem. We finally had a comprehensive

> food

> > panel

> > > done in December and received the results in mid January.

There

> > were 17

> > > foods that he reacted to, of which I had figured out 12. The

> three

> > that

> > > were a surprise were peanuts, oranges and potatoes which we

have

> now

> > > mostly eliminated.

> > >

> > > So, yes, other foods can act in your child like the opioids in

> the

> > gluten

> > > and casein. We have seen it happen in our child. The soy was

> the

> > worst.

> > > Our son's reactions usually built up over three or more

weeks.

> > Because

> > > he did not react immediately, it took so long to figure out

what

> I

> > was

> > > feeding him that caused the problems. We are now very careful

> when

> > we

> > > add something new, especially a protein. Three weeks is

usually

> > the time

> > > we have to wait between new items to see if there will be a

> reaction

> > > caused by a buildup.

> > >

> > > Since we have the reactive foods out of his diet he is doing so

> much

> > > better. He now tells me he is hungry and wants food. This is

so

> > unlike

> > > the child of a year ago, even a couple of months ago. A year

ago

> > he had

> > > an oral aversion to food and could only eat smooth puddings.

Now

> > he can

> > > tolerate chips and even little pieces of meat. We still have a

> > long ways

> > > to go though.

> > >

> > > We began an enzyme today. I was in a panic that I had given him

> > > something that would set him back. The product I started him

on

> is

> > > KidZYME from Renew Life. I called the company and asked about

> the

> > soy

> > > and dairy. Their product is not soy based, but is from green

> > plants.

> > > The acidophilus is grown on a rice base. The number for this

> > company is

> > > 1-. I guess I will have to watch him closely to

see

> if

> > he

> > > has a reaction to this supplement since I was unaware of the

> enzyme

> > > possibly having a gluten like substance. Not much about the

> > effects of

> > > food and supplements on behavior and development surprises me

> > anymore.

> > >

> > > Thanks for the posting.

> > >

> > > Sara

> > > Michigan, USA

> > >

> > > Thanks too to everyone yesterday for all the information about

> ear

> > tubes

> > > and tonsils. It was so helpful.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

From what I have heard from several people Great Plains labs tests results

are not coming back accurate. You are not the 1st or even 10th person I have

heard say their tests came back so high after being on the diet for so long-

and not all these people were using enzymaid! If you have seen improvements

in your child then I would only go with that. If your child has a problem

with soy, like mine does with corn then you will certainly see results with

removing soy. We have been using enzymaid for months with no reaction what

so ever. As a matter of fact I take it myself- I am gluten and casein free

as well. If soy can make a test that is supposed to be checking gluten and

casein peptides come back as such, then I would be questioning the test

itself. Just my opinion.

Re: Enzyme Products and Soy

> Dave,

>

> I assume that a gluten/casein peptide test performed by the Great

> Plains Lab is considered to be fairly accurate. Am I incorrect?

>

> Both my son's pre-diet and on-diet tests were performed by the same

> lab, so what possibilities in your mind would explain the dramatic

> increase in his gluten peptide levels? They went from 157 pre-diet

> to >200 after 5 months on the diet.

>

> We were extremely careful about collecting the sample for the test,

> as well as following the shipment instructions. It would be hard to

> find a parent more hyper than me about following the rules -- both

> with respect to the diet, and with respect to the tests.

>

> Thanks for your input,

>

> Selina

>

>

> > > > > Selina,

> > > > >

> > > > > We did not have peptide testing done before going gfcf in

> April

> > > of

> > > > 2000.

> > > > > I have only observation to back up what I noticed with our

> > son.

> > > To

> > > > > replace the dairy we switched to soy, but after 2 months we

> > began

> > > to

> > > > > notice some of the same problems we had with the dairy such as

> > > > gagging on

> > > > > food, loss of appetite and loss of speech. We saw great

> > > > improvements

> > > > > when we took him off of the soy and began using rice protein

> > > powder

> > > > for

> > > > > his main source of protein, Mott's OJ in the little boxes and

> > > rice

> > > > milk

> > > > > for his liquids. In December I figured out that the pea

> > protein

> > > in

> > > > the

> > > > > rice milk was also a problem. We finally had a comprehensive

> > > food

> > > > panel

> > > > > done in December and received the results in mid January.

> > There

> > > > were 17

> > > > > foods that he reacted to, of which I had figured out 12. The

> > > three

> > > > that

> > > > > were a surprise were peanuts, oranges and potatoes which we

> > have

> > > now

> > > > > mostly eliminated.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, yes, other foods can act in your child like the opioids in

> > > the

> > > > gluten

> > > > > and casein. We have seen it happen in our child. The soy was

> > > the

> > > > worst.

> > > > > Our son's reactions usually built up over three or more

> > weeks.

> > > > Because

> > > > > he did not react immediately, it took so long to figure out

> > what

> > > I

> > > > was

> > > > > feeding him that caused the problems. We are now very careful

> > > when

> > > > we

> > > > > add something new, especially a protein. Three weeks is

> > usually

> > > > the time

> > > > > we have to wait between new items to see if there will be a

> > > reaction

> > > > > caused by a buildup.

> > > > >

> > > > > Since we have the reactive foods out of his diet he is doing

> so

> > > much

> > > > > better. He now tells me he is hungry and wants food. This is

> > so

> > > > unlike

> > > > > the child of a year ago, even a couple of months ago. A year

> > ago

> > > > he had

> > > > > an oral aversion to food and could only eat smooth puddings.

> > Now

> > > > he can

> > > > > tolerate chips and even little pieces of meat. We still have

> a

> > > > long ways

> > > > > to go though.

> > > > >

> > > > > We began an enzyme today. I was in a panic that I had given

> him

> > > > > something that would set him back. The product I started him

> > on

> > > is

> > > > > KidZYME from Renew Life. I called the company and asked about

> > > the

> > > > soy

> > > > > and dairy. Their product is not soy based, but is from green

> > > > plants.

> > > > > The acidophilus is grown on a rice base. The number for this

> > > > company is

> > > > > 1-. I guess I will have to watch him closely to

> > see

> > > if

> > > > he

> > > > > has a reaction to this supplement since I was unaware of the

> > > enzyme

> > > > > possibly having a gluten like substance. Not much about the

> > > > effects of

> > > > > food and supplements on behavior and development surprises me

> > > > anymore.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the posting.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sara

> > > > > Michigan, USA

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks too to everyone yesterday for all the information about

> > > ear

> > > > tubes

> > > > > and tonsils. It was so helpful.

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

<< We have been using enzymaid for months with no reaction what

so ever. As a matter of fact I take it myself-

>>

What is enzymaid?????

Laurie