Re: Enzyme Products and Soy

[Guest guest]

The EnzymAid does not have soy, casien, gluten or gluten like

substances. The product was specifically designed to digest these

peptides.

It often happens that a rumor gets started and its hard to stop.

Thanks.

> > Selina,

> >

> > We did not have peptide testing done before going gfcf in April

of

> 2000.

> > I have only observation to back up what I noticed with our son.

To

> > replace the dairy we switched to soy, but after 2 months we began

to

> > notice some of the same problems we had with the dairy such as

> gagging on

> > food, loss of appetite and loss of speech. We saw great

> improvements

> > when we took him off of the soy and began using rice protein

powder

> for

> > his main source of protein, Mott's OJ in the little boxes and

rice

> milk

> > for his liquids. In December I figured out that the pea protein

in

> the

> > rice milk was also a problem. We finally had a comprehensive

food

> panel

> > done in December and received the results in mid January. There

> were 17

> > foods that he reacted to, of which I had figured out 12. The

three

> that

> > were a surprise were peanuts, oranges and potatoes which we have

now

> > mostly eliminated.

> >

> > So, yes, other foods can act in your child like the opioids in

the

> gluten

> > and casein. We have seen it happen in our child. The soy was

the

> worst.

> > Our son's reactions usually built up over three or more weeks.

> Because

> > he did not react immediately, it took so long to figure out what

I

> was

> > feeding him that caused the problems. We are now very careful

when

> we

> > add something new, especially a protein. Three weeks is usually

> the time

> > we have to wait between new items to see if there will be a

reaction

> > caused by a buildup.

> >

> > Since we have the reactive foods out of his diet he is doing so

much

> > better. He now tells me he is hungry and wants food. This is so

> unlike

> > the child of a year ago, even a couple of months ago. A year ago

> he had

> > an oral aversion to food and could only eat smooth puddings. Now

> he can

> > tolerate chips and even little pieces of meat. We still have a

> long ways

> > to go though.

> >

> > We began an enzyme today. I was in a panic that I had given him

> > something that would set him back. The product I started him on

is

> > KidZYME from Renew Life. I called the company and asked about

the

> soy

> > and dairy. Their product is not soy based, but is from green

> plants.

> > The acidophilus is grown on a rice base. The number for this

> company is

> > 1-. I guess I will have to watch him closely to see

if

> he

> > has a reaction to this supplement since I was unaware of the

enzyme

> > possibly having a gluten like substance. Not much about the

> effects of

> > food and supplements on behavior and development surprises me

> anymore.

> >

> > Thanks for the posting.

> >

> > Sara

> > Michigan, USA

> >

> > Thanks too to everyone yesterday for all the information about

ear

> tubes

> > and tonsils. It was so helpful.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

To all who have participated in this discussion,

I feel I should comment as I am the Mom who made the original post

about enzyme products and soy. I will say for a fact that a

knowledgable person at one of the major labs advised me that the

enzyme products might be a problem on a GFCF diet. Another Mom in my

area called the lab to confirm and heard the same thing I did. Ditto

about soy. I know very well what these enzyme products were

developed to do -- i.e., eliminate gluten and casein peptides from

the body. However, for whatever reason (maybe the scientists don't

even understand yet!) my son's gluten peptides rose dramatically

after 5 months on the diet, despite our strict and careful adherence

to the diet. I was advised by the person I spoke with to eliminate

the enzyme products and the soy, and I did so immediately. Within

just days, we have been seeing the first benefits from being on the

diet -- basically, decreased stimming and zoning out.

I assure you that might intent was not to spread any " rumor, " but

only to pass on helpful information that I heard from a reliable

source. The person who told me this information did not profess to

understand the phenomenon of children whose gluten peptides increased

(according to testing) after being on the diet. The person only told

me the trend she was noticing -- based on experience reviewing these

tests -- that children taking the enzyme products and/or soy

sometimes had increased gluten peptides despite strict adherence to

the diet. While I wonder how enzyme products and soy could possibly

have caused this to happen in my son's case, I did not question the

messenger. I only thanked her for her helpful information and

immediately put her advice into action.

I am thankful that the person was willing to make an honest

recommendation to me about the trend she was noticing. Otherwise, we

would not have found one of the puzzle pieces helpful to my son.

Feel free to " take or leave " what I have said. I only offer it to be

helpful to those who will listen. I think an open mind is always

best when dealing with a scientific issue that is basically in the

experimental stages at this point in time.

All the best,

Selina

> > > Selina,

> > >

> > > We did not have peptide testing done before going gfcf in April

> of

> > 2000.

> > > I have only observation to back up what I noticed with our

son.

> To

> > > replace the dairy we switched to soy, but after 2 months we

began

> to

> > > notice some of the same problems we had with the dairy such as

> > gagging on

> > > food, loss of appetite and loss of speech. We saw great

> > improvements

> > > when we took him off of the soy and began using rice protein

> powder

> > for

> > > his main source of protein, Mott's OJ in the little boxes and

> rice

> > milk

> > > for his liquids. In December I figured out that the pea

protein

> in

> > the

> > > rice milk was also a problem. We finally had a comprehensive

> food

> > panel

> > > done in December and received the results in mid January.

There

> > were 17

> > > foods that he reacted to, of which I had figured out 12. The

> three

> > that

> > > were a surprise were peanuts, oranges and potatoes which we

have

> now

> > > mostly eliminated.

> > >

> > > So, yes, other foods can act in your child like the opioids in

> the

> > gluten

> > > and casein. We have seen it happen in our child. The soy was

> the

> > worst.

> > > Our son's reactions usually built up over three or more

weeks.

> > Because

> > > he did not react immediately, it took so long to figure out

what

> I

> > was

> > > feeding him that caused the problems. We are now very careful

> when

> > we

> > > add something new, especially a protein. Three weeks is

usually

> > the time

> > > we have to wait between new items to see if there will be a

> reaction

> > > caused by a buildup.

> > >

> > > Since we have the reactive foods out of his diet he is doing so

> much

> > > better. He now tells me he is hungry and wants food. This is

so

> > unlike

> > > the child of a year ago, even a couple of months ago. A year

ago

> > he had

> > > an oral aversion to food and could only eat smooth puddings.

Now

> > he can

> > > tolerate chips and even little pieces of meat. We still have a

> > long ways

> > > to go though.

> > >

> > > We began an enzyme today. I was in a panic that I had given him

> > > something that would set him back. The product I started him

on

> is

> > > KidZYME from Renew Life. I called the company and asked about

> the

> > soy

> > > and dairy. Their product is not soy based, but is from green

> > plants.

> > > The acidophilus is grown on a rice base. The number for this

> > company is

> > > 1-. I guess I will have to watch him closely to

see

> if

> > he

> > > has a reaction to this supplement since I was unaware of the

> enzyme

> > > possibly having a gluten like substance. Not much about the

> > effects of

> > > food and supplements on behavior and development surprises me

> > anymore.

> > >

> > > Thanks for the posting.

> > >

> > > Sara

> > > Michigan, USA

> > >

> > > Thanks too to everyone yesterday for all the information about

> ear

> > tubes

> > > and tonsils. It was so helpful.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dave,

I assume that a gluten/casein peptide test performed by the Great

Plains Lab is considered to be fairly accurate. Am I incorrect?

Both my son's pre-diet and on-diet tests were performed by the same

lab, so what possibilities in your mind would explain the dramatic

increase in his gluten peptide levels? They went from 157 pre-diet

to >200 after 5 months on the diet.

We were extremely careful about collecting the sample for the test,

as well as following the shipment instructions. It would be hard to

find a parent more hyper than me about following the rules -- both

with respect to the diet, and with respect to the tests.

Thanks for your input,

Selina

> > > > Selina,

> > > >

> > > > We did not have peptide testing done before going gfcf in

April

> > of

> > > 2000.

> > > > I have only observation to back up what I noticed with our

> son.

> > To

> > > > replace the dairy we switched to soy, but after 2 months we

> began

> > to

> > > > notice some of the same problems we had with the dairy such as

> > > gagging on

> > > > food, loss of appetite and loss of speech. We saw great

> > > improvements

> > > > when we took him off of the soy and began using rice protein

> > powder

> > > for

> > > > his main source of protein, Mott's OJ in the little boxes and

> > rice

> > > milk

> > > > for his liquids. In December I figured out that the pea

> protein

> > in

> > > the

> > > > rice milk was also a problem. We finally had a comprehensive

> > food

> > > panel

> > > > done in December and received the results in mid January.

> There

> > > were 17

> > > > foods that he reacted to, of which I had figured out 12. The

> > three

> > > that

> > > > were a surprise were peanuts, oranges and potatoes which we

> have

> > now

> > > > mostly eliminated.

> > > >

> > > > So, yes, other foods can act in your child like the opioids in

> > the

> > > gluten

> > > > and casein. We have seen it happen in our child. The soy was

> > the

> > > worst.

> > > > Our son's reactions usually built up over three or more

> weeks.

> > > Because

> > > > he did not react immediately, it took so long to figure out

> what

> > I

> > > was

> > > > feeding him that caused the problems. We are now very careful

> > when

> > > we

> > > > add something new, especially a protein. Three weeks is

> usually

> > > the time

> > > > we have to wait between new items to see if there will be a

> > reaction

> > > > caused by a buildup.

> > > >

> > > > Since we have the reactive foods out of his diet he is doing

so

> > much

> > > > better. He now tells me he is hungry and wants food. This is

> so

> > > unlike

> > > > the child of a year ago, even a couple of months ago. A year

> ago

> > > he had

> > > > an oral aversion to food and could only eat smooth puddings.

> Now

> > > he can

> > > > tolerate chips and even little pieces of meat. We still have

a

> > > long ways

> > > > to go though.

> > > >

> > > > We began an enzyme today. I was in a panic that I had given

him

> > > > something that would set him back. The product I started him

> on

> > is

> > > > KidZYME from Renew Life. I called the company and asked about

> > the

> > > soy

> > > > and dairy. Their product is not soy based, but is from green

> > > plants.

> > > > The acidophilus is grown on a rice base. The number for this

> > > company is

> > > > 1-. I guess I will have to watch him closely to

> see

> > if

> > > he

> > > > has a reaction to this supplement since I was unaware of the

> > enzyme

> > > > possibly having a gluten like substance. Not much about the

> > > effects of

> > > > food and supplements on behavior and development surprises me

> > > anymore.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the posting.

> > > >

> > > > Sara

> > > > Michigan, USA

> > > >

> > > > Thanks too to everyone yesterday for all the information about

> > ear

> > > tubes

> > > > and tonsils. It was so helpful.

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Very helpful response. Thanks.

Selina

> > > > > > Selina,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We did not have peptide testing done before going gfcf in

> > April

> > > > of

> > > > > 2000.

> > > > > > I have only observation to back up what I noticed with our

> > > son.

> > > > To

> > > > > > replace the dairy we switched to soy, but after 2 months

we

> > > began

> > > > to

> > > > > > notice some of the same problems we had with the dairy

such as

> > > > > gagging on

> > > > > > food, loss of appetite and loss of speech. We saw great

> > > > > improvements

> > > > > > when we took him off of the soy and began using rice

protein

> > > > powder

> > > > > for

> > > > > > his main source of protein, Mott's OJ in the little boxes

and

> > > > rice

> > > > > milk

> > > > > > for his liquids. In December I figured out that the pea

> > > protein

> > > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > rice milk was also a problem. We finally had a

comprehensive

> > > > food

> > > > > panel

> > > > > > done in December and received the results in mid January.

> > > There

> > > > > were 17

> > > > > > foods that he reacted to, of which I had figured out 12.

The

> > > > three

> > > > > that

> > > > > > were a surprise were peanuts, oranges and potatoes which

we

> > > have

> > > > now

> > > > > > mostly eliminated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, yes, other foods can act in your child like the

opioids in

> > > > the

> > > > > gluten

> > > > > > and casein. We have seen it happen in our child. The

soy was

> > > > the

> > > > > worst.

> > > > > > Our son's reactions usually built up over three or more

> > > weeks.

> > > > > Because

> > > > > > he did not react immediately, it took so long to figure

out

> > > what

> > > > I

> > > > > was

> > > > > > feeding him that caused the problems. We are now very

careful

> > > > when

> > > > > we

> > > > > > add something new, especially a protein. Three weeks is

> > > usually

> > > > > the time

> > > > > > we have to wait between new items to see if there will be

a

> > > > reaction

> > > > > > caused by a buildup.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since we have the reactive foods out of his diet he is

doing

> > so

> > > > much

> > > > > > better. He now tells me he is hungry and wants food.

This is

> > > so

> > > > > unlike

> > > > > > the child of a year ago, even a couple of months ago. A

year

> > > ago

> > > > > he had

> > > > > > an oral aversion to food and could only eat smooth

puddings.

> > > Now

> > > > > he can

> > > > > > tolerate chips and even little pieces of meat. We still

have

> > a

> > > > > long ways

> > > > > > to go though.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We began an enzyme today. I was in a panic that I had

given

> > him

> > > > > > something that would set him back. The product I started

him

> > > on

> > > > is

> > > > > > KidZYME from Renew Life. I called the company and asked

about

> > > > the

> > > > > soy

> > > > > > and dairy. Their product is not soy based, but is from

green

> > > > > plants.

> > > > > > The acidophilus is grown on a rice base. The number for

this

> > > > > company is

> > > > > > 1-. I guess I will have to watch him closely

to

> > > see

> > > > if

> > > > > he

> > > > > > has a reaction to this supplement since I was unaware of

the

> > > > enzyme

> > > > > > possibly having a gluten like substance. Not much about

the

> > > > > effects of

> > > > > > food and supplements on behavior and development

surprises me

> > > > > anymore.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for the posting.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sara

> > > > > > Michigan, USA

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks too to everyone yesterday for all the information

about

> > > > ear

> > > > > tubes

> > > > > > and tonsils. It was so helpful.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

EnzymAid is a product from Kirkman Labs designed to break down gluten

and casein in the body.

>

>

> << We have been using enzymaid for months with no reaction what

> so ever. As a matter of fact I take it myself-

> >>

>

>

> What is enzymaid?????

>

> Laurie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

First of all...we know what we are doing on the EnzymAid. It was

developed with the joint efforts of Dr. Bernard Rimland, Dr Jon

Pangborn (a really bright guy that pioneered the peptide issue) and a

group of PhD's in enzyme science. We took over a year to develop this

product and are satisfied it does what it is supposed to do.

It has no gluten, no casein and does not elevate peptides. We could

post a long explanation from Dr. Pangborn but it would say the same

thing.

So...why are the tests reporting higher numbers with children on very

strict diets after initially on a high casein and gluten diet?

Parents are expecting the tests to accurately measure CASEIN and

GLUTEN infractions and a higher number is worse. This is not the case.

The higher numbers can mean a number of things and can be misleading

if you are expecting to measure casein and gluten. Higher numbers can

simply be soy or corn in the diet or a number of other issues. A

higher number is not necessarily bad. As long as the child has

a " leaky gut " we are going to find undigested peptides in the urine.

The focus has got to be on improving the " gut " and promoting proper

digestion. Avoiding casein and gluten does not heal the gut and does

not solve the problem (the solution is to work on improving the

immune system, reintroduce friendly bacteria, kill the candida et

al., and remove the metals from the gut) - whew

Parents should get " second opinions " on all tests to determine

reliability and should understand what the results mean. The report

that enzymes are to blame for higher numbers is simply wrong.

At Kirkman we know many parents rely on us for straight answers.

Anyone can call me and discuss.

Thanks

> > > > > > Selina,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We did not have peptide testing done before going gfcf in

> > April

> > > > of

> > > > > 2000.

> > > > > > I have only observation to back up what I noticed with our

> > > son.

> > > > To

> > > > > > replace the dairy we switched to soy, but after 2 months

we

> > > began

> > > > to

> > > > > > notice some of the same problems we had with the dairy

such as

> > > > > gagging on

> > > > > > food, loss of appetite and loss of speech. We saw great

> > > > > improvements

> > > > > > when we took him off of the soy and began using rice

protein

> > > > powder

> > > > > for

> > > > > > his main source of protein, Mott's OJ in the little boxes

and

> > > > rice

> > > > > milk

> > > > > > for his liquids. In December I figured out that the pea

> > > protein

> > > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > rice milk was also a problem. We finally had a

comprehensive

> > > > food

> > > > > panel

> > > > > > done in December and received the results in mid January.

> > > There

> > > > > were 17

> > > > > > foods that he reacted to, of which I had figured out 12.

The

> > > > three

> > > > > that

> > > > > > were a surprise were peanuts, oranges and potatoes which

we

> > > have

> > > > now

> > > > > > mostly eliminated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, yes, other foods can act in your child like the

opioids in

> > > > the

> > > > > gluten

> > > > > > and casein. We have seen it happen in our child. The

soy was

> > > > the

> > > > > worst.

> > > > > > Our son's reactions usually built up over three or more

> > > weeks.

> > > > > Because

> > > > > > he did not react immediately, it took so long to figure

out

> > > what

> > > > I

> > > > > was

> > > > > > feeding him that caused the problems. We are now very

careful

> > > > when

> > > > > we

> > > > > > add something new, especially a protein. Three weeks is

> > > usually

> > > > > the time

> > > > > > we have to wait between new items to see if there will be

a

> > > > reaction

> > > > > > caused by a buildup.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since we have the reactive foods out of his diet he is

doing

> > so

> > > > much

> > > > > > better. He now tells me he is hungry and wants food.

This is

> > > so

> > > > > unlike

> > > > > > the child of a year ago, even a couple of months ago. A

year

> > > ago

> > > > > he had

> > > > > > an oral aversion to food and could only eat smooth

puddings.

> > > Now

> > > > > he can

> > > > > > tolerate chips and even little pieces of meat. We still

have

> > a

> > > > > long ways

> > > > > > to go though.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We began an enzyme today. I was in a panic that I had

given

> > him

> > > > > > something that would set him back. The product I started

him

> > > on

> > > > is

> > > > > > KidZYME from Renew Life. I called the company and asked

about

> > > > the

> > > > > soy

> > > > > > and dairy. Their product is not soy based, but is from

green

> > > > > plants.

> > > > > > The acidophilus is grown on a rice base. The number for

this

> > > > > company is

> > > > > > 1-. I guess I will have to watch him closely

to

> > > see

> > > > if

> > > > > he

> > > > > > has a reaction to this supplement since I was unaware of

the

> > > > enzyme

> > > > > > possibly having a gluten like substance. Not much about

the

> > > > > effects of

> > > > > > food and supplements on behavior and development

surprises me

> > > > > anymore.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for the posting.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sara

> > > > > > Michigan, USA

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks too to everyone yesterday for all the information

about

> > > > ear

> > > > > tubes

> > > > > > and tonsils. It was so helpful.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >