Guest guest Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Interesting. I have exactly the opposite problem----a prolonged paralytic and sedative effect with general or spinal anesthesia. This has been reported in other mito patients. I also had slurred speech for several days following general, but spinal is almost worse for me. Won't go into all the gory details but with the last spinal in 1991 it took 6 months to recover nerve function in my legs. With the last general in 2003, it's hard to tell how many of the problems stemmed from anesthesia as opposed to surgical insult. The last thing the anesthesiologist said before they rolled me down the hall was we'll try to minimize the reaction, but there's no way you're going to come through general anesthesia without some problems. Yikes. You can see why I don't want craniotomy right now. BTW, our particular mutation is known to be associated with malignant hyperthermia----that is another patient with this mutation has had MH following anesthesia, but I have not had this reaction. They always prepare anyway. B _____ From: Laureta Fitzgerald Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:09 PM To: Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... * Sunny They have had problems intubating me, because I become rigid when given the anesthetic. They now intubate me while awake, so if it happens, I will at least have a good airway established. I also come out of some anesthetics, especially locals and spinals long before they expect. laurie > From: z39z@... > Reply-To: > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:36:25 -0500 > To: > Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... > > > Hi, Chris > > I too have had severe problems after surgeries, and I feel a likely > culprit is the general. If it were me, I would worry that my child > might have my tendencies, and do everything to avoid a general for him. > I believe sometimes they give generals because it is the easiest thing > to do for them, and alternatives might be just as effective if they > are pushed to use them. Just my two cents worth. > > Regards > > Sunny > > PS > I would love to compare notes as to the effect of general anesthsia on > people who have had problems. I won't go into my problems at this > time. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Barbara My last anesthesiologist explained that the newer drugs that are using are much less likely to cause MH, but those are the ones we shouldn't have. The older ones that are easier on the mitochondria are more apt to cause MH. Another anesthesiologist at CCF whose wife has mito, explained that I probably had the reaction I did (stiffening out) was because they used Anectine and I have myoclonus. He said that if you have myoclonus, you shouldn't have Anectine. laurie > > Reply-To: > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:38:15 -0600 > To: > > Subject: RE: General Anesthetics > > Interesting. I have exactly the opposite problem----a prolonged paralytic > and sedative effect with general or spinal anesthesia. This has been > reported in other mito patients. I also had slurred speech for several days > following general, but spinal is almost worse for me. Won't go into all the > gory details but with the last spinal in 1991 it took 6 months to recover > nerve function in my legs. With the last general in 2003, it's hard to tell > how many of the problems stemmed from anesthesia as opposed to surgical > insult. The last thing the anesthesiologist said before they rolled me down > the hall was we'll try to minimize the reaction, but there's no way you're > going to come through general anesthesia without some problems. Yikes. You > can see why I don't want craniotomy right now. > > > > BTW, our particular mutation is known to be associated with malignant > hyperthermia----that is another patient with this mutation has had MH > following anesthesia, but I have not had this reaction. They always prepare > anyway. > > B > > > > _____ > > From: Laureta Fitzgerald > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:09 PM > To: > Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... > > > > * Sunny > > They have had problems intubating me, because I become rigid when given the > anesthetic. They now intubate me while awake, so if it happens, I will at > least have a good airway established. > > I also come out of some anesthetics, especially locals and spinals long > before they expect. > > laurie > >> From: z39z@... >> Reply-To: >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:36:25 -0500 >> To: >> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... >> >> >> Hi, Chris >> >> I too have had severe problems after surgeries, and I feel a likely >> culprit is the general. If it were me, I would worry that my child >> might have my tendencies, and do everything to avoid a general for him. >> I believe sometimes they give generals because it is the easiest thing >> to do for them, and alternatives might be just as effective if they >> are pushed to use them. Just my two cents worth. >> >> Regards >> >> Sunny >> >> PS >> I would love to compare notes as to the effect of general anesthsia on >> people who have had problems. I won't go into my problems at this >> time. >> >> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Thanks, Laurie and Barbara I take forever to come to, with extreme nausea and feeling just god awful. With my first surgery (spinal) I was in the OR before 8:00 am, and was the last to get out past midnight. I could not get warm, even with the heated blankets they gave me. I rejected the pain injections because it was suggested that they might increase the nausea, and generally I just wanted to die. The pain from the spinal fusion was secondary to the awful feeling of being in the twilight zone for hours. My muscle weakness also go worse after the surgery. Not sure if the anesthesia or the prolonged bedrest contributed most there. I just felt I never was the same. After my second surgery I came out with noise sensitivity which was really extreme for several days. It was very difficult then, and is still a problem for me. I had a touch of it before, but got worse right when I came out of that surgery. My rheumatoid count went sky high, and I had extremely unusual muscle/tendon pain, stiffness and weakness. That took about 2 years to settle down. I do not have RA, Lupus, etc. The weakness remained. (That is why I am soooo happy that weight lifting counters some of it) Mentally, I am not sure I ever was the same after the surgeries either, but that is more difficult for me to say. I feel strongly that the surgeries/anesthesias contributed to my symptoms getting worse. I just did NOT recover the same way other people I knew recovered. I am just curious if others here feel the same way or had similar experiences. I didn't even understand about the anesthesia until I reflected on it way after the second surgery, but I intend to avoid generals if at all possible in the future. Barbara, I sure can see why you would want to avoid craniotomy! I really hope that Lazier Knife treatment will work for you. Regards Sunny > Interesting. I have exactly the opposite problem----a prolonged > paralytic > and sedative effect with general or spinal anesthesia. This has been > reported in other mito patients. I also had slurred speech for > several days > following general, but spinal is almost worse for me. Won't go into > all the > gory details but with the last spinal in 1991 it took 6 months to > recover > nerve function in my legs. With the last general in 2003, it's hard > to tell > how many of the problems stemmed from anesthesia as opposed to > surgical > insult. The last thing the anesthesiologist said before they rolled > me down > the hall was we'll try to minimize the reaction, but there's no way > you're > going to come through general anesthesia without some problems. > Yikes. You > can see why I don't want craniotomy right now. > > > > BTW, our particular mutation is known to be associated with malignant > hyperthermia----that is another patient with this mutation has had MH > following anesthesia, but I have not had this reaction. They always > prepare > anyway. > > B > > > > _____ > > From: Laureta Fitzgerald > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:09 PM > To: > Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... > > > > * Sunny > > They have had problems intubating me, because I become rigid when > given the > anesthetic. They now intubate me while awake, so if it happens, I > will at > least have a good airway established. > > I also come out of some anesthetics, especially locals and spinals > long > before they expect. > > laurie > > > From: z39z@... > > Reply-To: > > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:36:25 -0500 > > To: > > Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... > > > > > > Hi, Chris > > > > I too have had severe problems after surgeries, and I feel a likely > > culprit is the general. If it were me, I would worry that my child > > might have my tendencies, and do everything to avoid a general for > him. > > I believe sometimes they give generals because it is the easiest > thing > > to do for them, and alternatives might be just as effective if they > > are pushed to use them. Just my two cents worth. > > > > Regards > > > > Sunny > > > > PS > > I would love to compare notes as to the effect of general anesthsia > on > > people who have had problems. I won't go into my problems at this > > time. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 It's an interesting topic I started! I'm glad to have started it though, because I've never found other people that had problems with general's like I do! My first two surgeries I just had the unbelievable nausea, course after that they started giving me something in the sedation for that... On the third surgery they could not rouse me for more than half an hour... On the next surgery I came through, but was not able to speak or move for a time.. I was awake, but that was my condition for a day... The following surgery after that my body just melted down.... I wound up in the hospital for three days with such an unbelievable reaction of vomiting & not being able to speak and move properly, I felt in my head like a caged animal... Even after I left the hospital I was ill for two weeks.... That was it, I plan never to have another general unless it's a life or death situation.... So to say I want to avoid any general for our son is an understatement We've had three opinions on his mouth, so we are okay to go ahead... of the teeth they are taking, only four are adult teeth, and they really need to come out, there is just absolutely no room for them in his mouth.... the others are just babies that are either already loose or will become loose within a year.... I'll just be glad when it's over... it may take more appointments, but I think it's the safest thing to do... I really am relieved (sort of) to hear other people have some of the same problems that I do... Chris In a message dated 1/28/2005 3:50:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes: Subject: Re: General Anesthetics Thanks, Laurie and Barbara I take forever to come to, with extreme nausea and feeling just god awful. With my first surgery (spinal) I was in the OR before 8:00 am, and was the last to get out past midnight. I could not get warm, even with the heated blankets they gave me. I rejected the pain injections because it was suggested that they might increase the nausea, and generally I just wanted to die. The pain from the spinal fusion was secondary to the awful feeling of being in the twilight zone for hours. My muscle weakness also go worse after the surgery. Not sure if the anesthesia or the prolonged bedrest contributed most there. I just felt I never was the same. After my second surgery I came out with noise sensitivity which was really extreme for several days. It was very difficult then, and is still a problem for me. I had a touch of it before, but got worse right when I came out of that surgery. My rheumatoid count went sky high, and I had extremely unusual muscle/tendon pain, stiffness and weakness. That took about 2 years to settle down. I do not have RA, Lupus, etc. The weakness remained. (That is why I am soooo happy that weight lifting counters some of it) Mentally, I am not sure I ever was the same after the surgeries either, but that is more difficult for me to say. I feel strongly that the surgeries/anesthesias contributed to my symptoms getting worse. I just did NOT recover the same way other people I knew recovered. I am just curious if others here feel the same way or had similar experiences. I didn't even understand about the anesthesia until I reflected on it way after the second surgery, but I intend to avoid generals if at all possible in the future. Barbara, I sure can see why you would want to avoid craniotomy! I really hope that Lazier Knife treatment will work for you. Regards Sunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Yes, this is the dilemma. My anesthesiologist for the jejunostomy complained that every drug in his bag of tricks was on the " no " list in Cohen's article. He kept saying we have to use SOMETHING if we're going to do surgery! He really wanted to use propofol because it is safer for MH but I was not comfortable trying it because 1. I'd never had it 2. it is known to inhibit mitochondrial function 3. I knew at least 2 mito patients who had a terrible time with it. He ended up using a combo of several things as a compromise on the theory that small amounts of several drugs might minimize a reaction to any single drug. Not at all sure this theory panned out, but I'm guessing the surgery itself was the biggest insult, as I recovered fully from laparoscopic cholecystectomy 15 years ago and had a general then. Though I was not nearly as sick or weak either. B _____ From: Laureta Fitzgerald Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:18 PM To: Subject: Re: General Anesthetics Barbara My last anesthesiologist explained that the newer drugs that are using are much less likely to cause MH, but those are the ones we shouldn't have. The older ones that are easier on the mitochondria are more apt to cause MH. Another anesthesiologist at CCF whose wife has mito, explained that I probably had the reaction I did (stiffening out) was because they used Anectine and I have myoclonus. He said that if you have myoclonus, you shouldn't have Anectine. laurie > > Reply-To: > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:38:15 -0600 > To: > > Subject: RE: General Anesthetics > > Interesting. I have exactly the opposite problem----a prolonged paralytic > and sedative effect with general or spinal anesthesia. This has been > reported in other mito patients. I also had slurred speech for several days > following general, but spinal is almost worse for me. Won't go into all the > gory details but with the last spinal in 1991 it took 6 months to recover > nerve function in my legs. With the last general in 2003, it's hard to tell > how many of the problems stemmed from anesthesia as opposed to surgical > insult. The last thing the anesthesiologist said before they rolled me down > the hall was we'll try to minimize the reaction, but there's no way you're > going to come through general anesthesia without some problems. Yikes. You > can see why I don't want craniotomy right now. > > > > BTW, our particular mutation is known to be associated with malignant > hyperthermia----that is another patient with this mutation has had MH > following anesthesia, but I have not had this reaction. They always prepare > anyway. > > B > > > > _____ > > From: Laureta Fitzgerald > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:09 PM > To: > Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... > > > > * Sunny > > They have had problems intubating me, because I become rigid when given the > anesthetic. They now intubate me while awake, so if it happens, I will at > least have a good airway established. > > I also come out of some anesthetics, especially locals and spinals long > before they expect. > > laurie > >> From: z39z@... >> Reply-To: >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:36:25 -0500 >> To: >> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... >> >> >> Hi, Chris >> >> I too have had severe problems after surgeries, and I feel a likely >> culprit is the general. If it were me, I would worry that my child >> might have my tendencies, and do everything to avoid a general for him. >> I believe sometimes they give generals because it is the easiest thing >> to do for them, and alternatives might be just as effective if they >> are pushed to use them. Just my two cents worth. >> >> Regards >> >> Sunny >> >> PS >> I would love to compare notes as to the effect of general anesthsia on >> people who have had problems. I won't go into my problems at this >> time. >> >> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 During one surgery, they woke me up in the middle to " see how I was doing " . Very weird, no pain, could talk a bit, but it was extremely odd. The main problem I have after surgery is that my blood pressure goes up (200/150 or more), and I also stay groggy for longer, so they try to give me info on the surgery, and I'm like " yeah, yeah, yes mom, i'll do the dishes after i do my homework... " It's too bad they don't monitor these things more closely, there are MANY types of anesthesia. A list of what to avoid and what might work best would be nice. For example, a lot of vets are using Isoflurane for anesthetizing rabbits, because other anesthetic methods prove toxic, and they found that dogs and cats do better with it as well, better than halothane which is more common (and cheaper I guess). " Isoflurane has the largest circulatory margin of safety of all potent halogenated agents; it produces the least myocardial depression at a given multiple of MAC. " Take care, RH > > It's an interesting topic I started! I'm glad to have started it though, > because I've never found other people that had problems with general's like I do! > > My first two surgeries I just had the unbelievable nausea, course after that > they started giving me something in the sedation for that... On the third > surgery they could not rouse me for more than half an hour... On the next > surgery I came through, but was not able to speak or move for a time.. I was > awake, but that was my condition for a day... The following surgery after that > my body just melted down.... I wound up in the hospital for three days with > such an unbelievable reaction of vomiting & not being able to speak and move > properly, I felt in my head like a caged animal... Even after I left the > hospital I was ill for two weeks.... That was it, I plan never to have another > general unless it's a life or death situation.... So to say I want to avoid any > general for our son is an understatement > > We've had three opinions on his mouth, so we are okay to go ahead... of the > teeth they are taking, only four are adult teeth, and they really need to come > out, there is just absolutely no room for them in his mouth.... the others > are just babies that are either already loose or will become loose within a > year.... I'll just be glad when it's over... it may take more appointments, but > I think it's the safest thing to do... > > I really am relieved (sort of) to hear other people have some of the same > problems that I do... > Chris > In a message dated 1/28/2005 3:50:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, > writes: > > Subject: Re: General Anesthetics > > Thanks, Laurie and Barbara > > I take forever to come to, with extreme nausea and feeling just god > awful. With my first surgery (spinal) I was in the OR before 8:00 am, > and was the last to get out past midnight. I could not get warm, even > with the heated blankets they gave me. I rejected the pain injections > because it was suggested that they might increase the nausea, and > generally I just wanted to die. The pain from the spinal fusion was > secondary to the awful feeling of being in the twilight zone for hours. > My muscle weakness also go worse after the surgery. Not sure if the > anesthesia or the prolonged bedrest contributed most there. I just > felt I never was the same. > > After my second surgery I came out with noise sensitivity which was > really extreme for several days. It was very difficult then, and is > still a problem for me. I had a touch of it before, but got worse > right when I came out of that surgery. My rheumatoid count went sky > high, and I had extremely unusual muscle/tendon pain, stiffness and > weakness. That took about 2 years to settle down. I do not have RA, > Lupus, etc. The weakness remained. (That is why I am soooo happy that > weight lifting counters some of it) Mentally, I am not sure I ever was > the same after the surgeries either, but that is more difficult for me > to say. > > I feel strongly that the surgeries/anesthesias contributed to my > symptoms getting worse. I just did NOT recover the same way other > people I knew recovered. I am just curious if others here feel the > same way or had similar experiences. I didn't even understand about > the anesthesia until I reflected on it way after the second surgery, > but I intend to avoid generals if at all possible in the future. > > > Barbara, > I sure can see why you would want to avoid craniotomy! I really hope > that Lazier Knife treatment will work for you. > > > Regards > > Sunny > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 " Twilights " generally make me go completely out anyway, and I have a rough time recovering from them too. Remember that the anesthesiologist may actually may know more about this than you think - there are different types of general anesthesia, some which depress the ANS more than others. It's unfortunate, but sometimes insurance dictates who can do your anesthesia, so you and your doctor may agree, but the only available on-plan anesthesiologist may not. You know, I wonder if the problem could be that we don't go under fast enough (because the damaged mito mess up the liver's response to drugs), so the anesthesiologist ends up using MORE anesthetic than usual, so we get side effects that would be considered NORMAL for the extra amount of anesthesia used. I remember going on one medication, and it took my body TWO HOURS to respond to it, where they had told me EVERYBODY responds to it within 20 minutes. Something just ain't right... Take care, RH > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> . > >> > >> > >> . > >> > >> > >> . > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Hi , Are you kidding? The anesthesiologist overrode what the doctor said? That's just outrageous... you did the right thing... at this point, I would have to be in serious trouble to ever allow another general... Chris In a message dated 1/28/2005 6:16:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes: I went over all the precautions with the anesthesia head, just as a precaution before I had my colonoscopy scheduled last year. I spent the night before in the hospital so that I could be on D10 overnight instead of fasting with all the problems that creates. The doctor and I got in the procedure room and the anesthesiologist that they scheduled refused to only give me a twilight like the doctor and I agreed. The anesthesiologist said he would ONLY give me a general for this procedure, despite the mito dangers. When the doc and I couldn't talk him into anything other than the general, I got up off the table and the doc and I walked out - no procedure thanks to the idiot that wouldn't give me the twilight. We even told him I had the procedure done with only a twilight in the past with no issues and he said he didn't care. Arrhhh!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Barbara The approach of several drugs in small amounts was what was used during my shoulder surgery which turned out to be the longest rotator cuff repair he had done and I had no anaesthesia problems, just allergic reactions to pain meds. laurie > > Reply-To: > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:47:49 -0600 > To: > > Subject: RE: General Anesthetics > > Yes, this is the dilemma. My anesthesiologist for the jejunostomy complained > that every drug in his bag of tricks was on the " no " list in Cohen's > article. He kept saying we have to use SOMETHING if we're going to do > surgery! He really wanted to use propofol because it is safer for MH but I > was not comfortable trying it because 1. I'd never had it 2. it is known to > inhibit mitochondrial function 3. I knew at least 2 mito patients who had a > terrible time with it. He ended up using a combo of several things as a > compromise on the theory that small amounts of several drugs might minimize > a reaction to any single drug. Not at all sure this theory panned out, but > I'm guessing the surgery itself was the biggest insult, as I recovered fully > from laparoscopic cholecystectomy 15 years ago and had a general then. > Though I was not nearly as sick or weak either. > > > > B > > > > _____ > > From: Laureta Fitzgerald > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:18 PM > To: > Subject: Re: General Anesthetics > > > > Barbara > > My last anesthesiologist explained that the newer drugs that are using are > much less likely to cause MH, but those are the ones we shouldn't have. The > older ones that are easier on the mitochondria are more apt to cause MH. > Another anesthesiologist at CCF whose wife has mito, explained that I > probably had the reaction I did (stiffening out) was because they used > Anectine and I have myoclonus. He said that if you have myoclonus, you > shouldn't have Anectine. > > laurie > >> >> Reply-To: >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:38:15 -0600 >> To: > >> Subject: RE: General Anesthetics >> >> Interesting. I have exactly the opposite problem----a prolonged paralytic >> and sedative effect with general or spinal anesthesia. This has been >> reported in other mito patients. I also had slurred speech for several > days >> following general, but spinal is almost worse for me. Won't go into all > the >> gory details but with the last spinal in 1991 it took 6 months to recover >> nerve function in my legs. With the last general in 2003, it's hard to > tell >> how many of the problems stemmed from anesthesia as opposed to surgical >> insult. The last thing the anesthesiologist said before they rolled me > down >> the hall was we'll try to minimize the reaction, but there's no way you're >> going to come through general anesthesia without some problems. Yikes. You >> can see why I don't want craniotomy right now. >> >> >> >> BTW, our particular mutation is known to be associated with malignant >> hyperthermia----that is another patient with this mutation has had MH >> following anesthesia, but I have not had this reaction. They always > prepare >> anyway. >> >> B >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: Laureta Fitzgerald >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:09 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... >> >> >> >> * Sunny >> >> They have had problems intubating me, because I become rigid when given > the >> anesthetic. They now intubate me while awake, so if it happens, I will at >> least have a good airway established. >> >> I also come out of some anesthetics, especially locals and spinals long >> before they expect. >> >> laurie >> >>> From: z39z@... >>> Reply-To: >>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:36:25 -0500 >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... >>> >>> >>> Hi, Chris >>> >>> I too have had severe problems after surgeries, and I feel a likely >>> culprit is the general. If it were me, I would worry that my child >>> might have my tendencies, and do everything to avoid a general for him. >>> I believe sometimes they give generals because it is the easiest thing >>> to do for them, and alternatives might be just as effective if they >>> are pushed to use them. Just my two cents worth. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Sunny >>> >>> PS >>> I would love to compare notes as to the effect of general anesthsia on >>> people who have had problems. I won't go into my problems at this >>> time. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Barbara The approach of several drugs in small amounts was what was used during my shoulder surgery which turned out to be the longest rotator cuff repair he had done and I had no anaesthesia problems, just allergic reactions to pain meds. laurie > > Reply-To: > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:47:49 -0600 > To: > > Subject: RE: General Anesthetics > > Yes, this is the dilemma. My anesthesiologist for the jejunostomy complained > that every drug in his bag of tricks was on the " no " list in Cohen's > article. He kept saying we have to use SOMETHING if we're going to do > surgery! He really wanted to use propofol because it is safer for MH but I > was not comfortable trying it because 1. I'd never had it 2. it is known to > inhibit mitochondrial function 3. I knew at least 2 mito patients who had a > terrible time with it. He ended up using a combo of several things as a > compromise on the theory that small amounts of several drugs might minimize > a reaction to any single drug. Not at all sure this theory panned out, but > I'm guessing the surgery itself was the biggest insult, as I recovered fully > from laparoscopic cholecystectomy 15 years ago and had a general then. > Though I was not nearly as sick or weak either. > > > > B > > > > _____ > > From: Laureta Fitzgerald > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:18 PM > To: > Subject: Re: General Anesthetics > > > > Barbara > > My last anesthesiologist explained that the newer drugs that are using are > much less likely to cause MH, but those are the ones we shouldn't have. The > older ones that are easier on the mitochondria are more apt to cause MH. > Another anesthesiologist at CCF whose wife has mito, explained that I > probably had the reaction I did (stiffening out) was because they used > Anectine and I have myoclonus. He said that if you have myoclonus, you > shouldn't have Anectine. > > laurie > >> >> Reply-To: >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:38:15 -0600 >> To: > >> Subject: RE: General Anesthetics >> >> Interesting. I have exactly the opposite problem----a prolonged paralytic >> and sedative effect with general or spinal anesthesia. This has been >> reported in other mito patients. I also had slurred speech for several > days >> following general, but spinal is almost worse for me. Won't go into all > the >> gory details but with the last spinal in 1991 it took 6 months to recover >> nerve function in my legs. With the last general in 2003, it's hard to > tell >> how many of the problems stemmed from anesthesia as opposed to surgical >> insult. The last thing the anesthesiologist said before they rolled me > down >> the hall was we'll try to minimize the reaction, but there's no way you're >> going to come through general anesthesia without some problems. Yikes. You >> can see why I don't want craniotomy right now. >> >> >> >> BTW, our particular mutation is known to be associated with malignant >> hyperthermia----that is another patient with this mutation has had MH >> following anesthesia, but I have not had this reaction. They always > prepare >> anyway. >> >> B >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: Laureta Fitzgerald >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:09 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... >> >> >> >> * Sunny >> >> They have had problems intubating me, because I become rigid when given > the >> anesthetic. They now intubate me while awake, so if it happens, I will at >> least have a good airway established. >> >> I also come out of some anesthetics, especially locals and spinals long >> before they expect. >> >> laurie >> >>> From: z39z@... >>> Reply-To: >>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:36:25 -0500 >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... >>> >>> >>> Hi, Chris >>> >>> I too have had severe problems after surgeries, and I feel a likely >>> culprit is the general. If it were me, I would worry that my child >>> might have my tendencies, and do everything to avoid a general for him. >>> I believe sometimes they give generals because it is the easiest thing >>> to do for them, and alternatives might be just as effective if they >>> are pushed to use them. Just my two cents worth. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Sunny >>> >>> PS >>> I would love to compare notes as to the effect of general anesthsia on >>> people who have had problems. I won't go into my problems at this >>> time. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Hi, Laurie That is a good thought. Thanks. > Barbara > > The approach of several drugs in small amounts was what was used > during my > shoulder surgery which turned out to be the longest rotator cuff > repair he > had done and I had no anaesthesia problems, just allergic reactions > to pain > meds. > > laurie > > > > > Reply-To: > > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:47:49 -0600 > > To: > > > Subject: RE: General Anesthetics > > > > Yes, this is the dilemma. My anesthesiologist for the jejunostomy > complained > > that every drug in his bag of tricks was on the " no " list in Cohen's > > article. He kept saying we have to use SOMETHING if we're going to > do > > surgery! He really wanted to use propofol because it is safer for > MH but I > > was not comfortable trying it because 1. I'd never had it 2. it is > known to > > inhibit mitochondrial function 3. I knew at least 2 mito patients > who had a > > terrible time with it. He ended up using a combo of several things > as a > > compromise on the theory that small amounts of several drugs might > minimize > > a reaction to any single drug. Not at all sure this theory panned > out, but > > I'm guessing the surgery itself was the biggest insult, as I > recovered fully > > from laparoscopic cholecystectomy 15 years ago and had a general > then. > > Though I was not nearly as sick or weak either. > > > > > > > > B > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: Laureta Fitzgerald > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:18 PM > > To: > > Subject: Re: General Anesthetics > > > > > > > > Barbara > > > > My last anesthesiologist explained that the newer drugs that are > using are > > much less likely to cause MH, but those are the ones we shouldn't > have. The > > older ones that are easier on the mitochondria are more apt to > cause MH. > > Another anesthesiologist at CCF whose wife has mito, explained that > I > > probably had the reaction I did (stiffening out) was because they > used > > Anectine and I have myoclonus. He said that if you have myoclonus, > you > > shouldn't have Anectine. > > > > laurie > > > >> > >> Reply-To: > >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:38:15 -0600 > >> To: > > >> Subject: RE: General Anesthetics > >> > >> Interesting. I have exactly the opposite problem----a prolonged > paralytic > >> and sedative effect with general or spinal anesthesia. This has > been > >> reported in other mito patients. I also had slurred speech for > several > > days > >> following general, but spinal is almost worse for me. Won't go > into all > > the > >> gory details but with the last spinal in 1991 it took 6 months to > recover > >> nerve function in my legs. With the last general in 2003, it's > hard to > > tell > >> how many of the problems stemmed from anesthesia as opposed to > surgical > >> insult. The last thing the anesthesiologist said before they > rolled me > > down > >> the hall was we'll try to minimize the reaction, but there's no > way you're > >> going to come through general anesthesia without some problems. > Yikes. You > >> can see why I don't want craniotomy right now. > >> > >> > >> > >> BTW, our particular mutation is known to be associated with > malignant > >> hyperthermia----that is another patient with this mutation has had > MH > >> following anesthesia, but I have not had this reaction. They always > > prepare > >> anyway. > >> > >> B > >> > >> > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> From: Laureta Fitzgerald > >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:09 PM > >> To: > >> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... > >> > >> > >> > >> * Sunny > >> > >> They have had problems intubating me, because I become rigid when > given > > the > >> anesthetic. They now intubate me while awake, so if it happens, I > will at > >> least have a good airway established. > >> > >> I also come out of some anesthetics, especially locals and spinals > long > >> before they expect. > >> > >> laurie > >> > >>> From: z39z@... > >>> Reply-To: > >>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:36:25 -0500 > >>> To: > >>> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi, Chris > >>> > >>> I too have had severe problems after surgeries, and I feel a > likely > >>> culprit is the general. If it were me, I would worry that my > child > >>> might have my tendencies, and do everything to avoid a general > for him. > >>> I believe sometimes they give generals because it is the easiest > thing > >>> to do for them, and alternatives might be just as effective if > they > >>> are pushed to use them. Just my two cents worth. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Sunny > >>> > >>> PS > >>> I would love to compare notes as to the effect of general > anesthsia on > >>> people who have had problems. I won't go into my problems at this > >>> time. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Hi, Laurie That is a good thought. Thanks. > Barbara > > The approach of several drugs in small amounts was what was used > during my > shoulder surgery which turned out to be the longest rotator cuff > repair he > had done and I had no anaesthesia problems, just allergic reactions > to pain > meds. > > laurie > > > > > Reply-To: > > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:47:49 -0600 > > To: > > > Subject: RE: General Anesthetics > > > > Yes, this is the dilemma. My anesthesiologist for the jejunostomy > complained > > that every drug in his bag of tricks was on the " no " list in Cohen's > > article. He kept saying we have to use SOMETHING if we're going to > do > > surgery! He really wanted to use propofol because it is safer for > MH but I > > was not comfortable trying it because 1. I'd never had it 2. it is > known to > > inhibit mitochondrial function 3. I knew at least 2 mito patients > who had a > > terrible time with it. He ended up using a combo of several things > as a > > compromise on the theory that small amounts of several drugs might > minimize > > a reaction to any single drug. Not at all sure this theory panned > out, but > > I'm guessing the surgery itself was the biggest insult, as I > recovered fully > > from laparoscopic cholecystectomy 15 years ago and had a general > then. > > Though I was not nearly as sick or weak either. > > > > > > > > B > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: Laureta Fitzgerald > > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:18 PM > > To: > > Subject: Re: General Anesthetics > > > > > > > > Barbara > > > > My last anesthesiologist explained that the newer drugs that are > using are > > much less likely to cause MH, but those are the ones we shouldn't > have. The > > older ones that are easier on the mitochondria are more apt to > cause MH. > > Another anesthesiologist at CCF whose wife has mito, explained that > I > > probably had the reaction I did (stiffening out) was because they > used > > Anectine and I have myoclonus. He said that if you have myoclonus, > you > > shouldn't have Anectine. > > > > laurie > > > >> > >> Reply-To: > >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:38:15 -0600 > >> To: > > >> Subject: RE: General Anesthetics > >> > >> Interesting. I have exactly the opposite problem----a prolonged > paralytic > >> and sedative effect with general or spinal anesthesia. This has > been > >> reported in other mito patients. I also had slurred speech for > several > > days > >> following general, but spinal is almost worse for me. Won't go > into all > > the > >> gory details but with the last spinal in 1991 it took 6 months to > recover > >> nerve function in my legs. With the last general in 2003, it's > hard to > > tell > >> how many of the problems stemmed from anesthesia as opposed to > surgical > >> insult. The last thing the anesthesiologist said before they > rolled me > > down > >> the hall was we'll try to minimize the reaction, but there's no > way you're > >> going to come through general anesthesia without some problems. > Yikes. You > >> can see why I don't want craniotomy right now. > >> > >> > >> > >> BTW, our particular mutation is known to be associated with > malignant > >> hyperthermia----that is another patient with this mutation has had > MH > >> following anesthesia, but I have not had this reaction. They always > > prepare > >> anyway. > >> > >> B > >> > >> > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> From: Laureta Fitzgerald > >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:09 PM > >> To: > >> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... > >> > >> > >> > >> * Sunny > >> > >> They have had problems intubating me, because I become rigid when > given > > the > >> anesthetic. They now intubate me while awake, so if it happens, I > will at > >> least have a good airway established. > >> > >> I also come out of some anesthetics, especially locals and spinals > long > >> before they expect. > >> > >> laurie > >> > >>> From: z39z@... > >>> Reply-To: > >>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:36:25 -0500 > >>> To: > >>> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi, Chris > >>> > >>> I too have had severe problems after surgeries, and I feel a > likely > >>> culprit is the general. If it were me, I would worry that my > child > >>> might have my tendencies, and do everything to avoid a general > for him. > >>> I believe sometimes they give generals because it is the easiest > thing > >>> to do for them, and alternatives might be just as effective if > they > >>> are pushed to use them. Just my two cents worth. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Sunny > >>> > >>> PS > >>> I would love to compare notes as to the effect of general > anesthsia on > >>> people who have had problems. I won't go into my problems at this > >>> time. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Sounds like two docs both had the same good idea! I'm glad it worked well for you. B _____ From: Laureta Fitzgerald Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 4:25 PM To: Subject: Re: General Anesthetics Barbara The approach of several drugs in small amounts was what was used during my shoulder surgery which turned out to be the longest rotator cuff repair he had done and I had no anaesthesia problems, just allergic reactions to pain meds. laurie > > Reply-To: > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:47:49 -0600 > To: > > Subject: RE: General Anesthetics > > Yes, this is the dilemma. My anesthesiologist for the jejunostomy complained > that every drug in his bag of tricks was on the " no " list in Cohen's > article. He kept saying we have to use SOMETHING if we're going to do > surgery! He really wanted to use propofol because it is safer for MH but I > was not comfortable trying it because 1. I'd never had it 2. it is known to > inhibit mitochondrial function 3. I knew at least 2 mito patients who had a > terrible time with it. He ended up using a combo of several things as a > compromise on the theory that small amounts of several drugs might minimize > a reaction to any single drug. Not at all sure this theory panned out, but > I'm guessing the surgery itself was the biggest insult, as I recovered fully > from laparoscopic cholecystectomy 15 years ago and had a general then. > Though I was not nearly as sick or weak either. > > > > B > > > > _____ > > From: Laureta Fitzgerald > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:18 PM > To: > Subject: Re: General Anesthetics > > > > Barbara > > My last anesthesiologist explained that the newer drugs that are using are > much less likely to cause MH, but those are the ones we shouldn't have. The > older ones that are easier on the mitochondria are more apt to cause MH. > Another anesthesiologist at CCF whose wife has mito, explained that I > probably had the reaction I did (stiffening out) was because they used > Anectine and I have myoclonus. He said that if you have myoclonus, you > shouldn't have Anectine. > > laurie > >> >> Reply-To: >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:38:15 -0600 >> To: > >> Subject: RE: General Anesthetics >> >> Interesting. I have exactly the opposite problem----a prolonged paralytic >> and sedative effect with general or spinal anesthesia. This has been >> reported in other mito patients. I also had slurred speech for several > days >> following general, but spinal is almost worse for me. Won't go into all > the >> gory details but with the last spinal in 1991 it took 6 months to recover >> nerve function in my legs. With the last general in 2003, it's hard to > tell >> how many of the problems stemmed from anesthesia as opposed to surgical >> insult. The last thing the anesthesiologist said before they rolled me > down >> the hall was we'll try to minimize the reaction, but there's no way you're >> going to come through general anesthesia without some problems. Yikes. You >> can see why I don't want craniotomy right now. >> >> >> >> BTW, our particular mutation is known to be associated with malignant >> hyperthermia----that is another patient with this mutation has had MH >> following anesthesia, but I have not had this reaction. They always > prepare >> anyway. >> >> B >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: Laureta Fitzgerald >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:09 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... >> >> >> >> * Sunny >> >> They have had problems intubating me, because I become rigid when given > the >> anesthetic. They now intubate me while awake, so if it happens, I will at >> least have a good airway established. >> >> I also come out of some anesthetics, especially locals and spinals long >> before they expect. >> >> laurie >> >>> From: z39z@... >>> Reply-To: >>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:36:25 -0500 >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... >>> >>> >>> Hi, Chris >>> >>> I too have had severe problems after surgeries, and I feel a likely >>> culprit is the general. If it were me, I would worry that my child >>> might have my tendencies, and do everything to avoid a general for him. >>> I believe sometimes they give generals because it is the easiest thing >>> to do for them, and alternatives might be just as effective if they >>> are pushed to use them. Just my two cents worth. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Sunny >>> >>> PS >>> I would love to compare notes as to the effect of general anesthsia on >>> people who have had problems. I won't go into my problems at this >>> time. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Sounds like two docs both had the same good idea! I'm glad it worked well for you. B _____ From: Laureta Fitzgerald Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 4:25 PM To: Subject: Re: General Anesthetics Barbara The approach of several drugs in small amounts was what was used during my shoulder surgery which turned out to be the longest rotator cuff repair he had done and I had no anaesthesia problems, just allergic reactions to pain meds. laurie > > Reply-To: > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:47:49 -0600 > To: > > Subject: RE: General Anesthetics > > Yes, this is the dilemma. My anesthesiologist for the jejunostomy complained > that every drug in his bag of tricks was on the " no " list in Cohen's > article. He kept saying we have to use SOMETHING if we're going to do > surgery! He really wanted to use propofol because it is safer for MH but I > was not comfortable trying it because 1. I'd never had it 2. it is known to > inhibit mitochondrial function 3. I knew at least 2 mito patients who had a > terrible time with it. He ended up using a combo of several things as a > compromise on the theory that small amounts of several drugs might minimize > a reaction to any single drug. Not at all sure this theory panned out, but > I'm guessing the surgery itself was the biggest insult, as I recovered fully > from laparoscopic cholecystectomy 15 years ago and had a general then. > Though I was not nearly as sick or weak either. > > > > B > > > > _____ > > From: Laureta Fitzgerald > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:18 PM > To: > Subject: Re: General Anesthetics > > > > Barbara > > My last anesthesiologist explained that the newer drugs that are using are > much less likely to cause MH, but those are the ones we shouldn't have. The > older ones that are easier on the mitochondria are more apt to cause MH. > Another anesthesiologist at CCF whose wife has mito, explained that I > probably had the reaction I did (stiffening out) was because they used > Anectine and I have myoclonus. He said that if you have myoclonus, you > shouldn't have Anectine. > > laurie > >> >> Reply-To: >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:38:15 -0600 >> To: > >> Subject: RE: General Anesthetics >> >> Interesting. I have exactly the opposite problem----a prolonged paralytic >> and sedative effect with general or spinal anesthesia. This has been >> reported in other mito patients. I also had slurred speech for several > days >> following general, but spinal is almost worse for me. Won't go into all > the >> gory details but with the last spinal in 1991 it took 6 months to recover >> nerve function in my legs. With the last general in 2003, it's hard to > tell >> how many of the problems stemmed from anesthesia as opposed to surgical >> insult. The last thing the anesthesiologist said before they rolled me > down >> the hall was we'll try to minimize the reaction, but there's no way you're >> going to come through general anesthesia without some problems. Yikes. You >> can see why I don't want craniotomy right now. >> >> >> >> BTW, our particular mutation is known to be associated with malignant >> hyperthermia----that is another patient with this mutation has had MH >> following anesthesia, but I have not had this reaction. They always > prepare >> anyway. >> >> B >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: Laureta Fitzgerald >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:09 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... >> >> >> >> * Sunny >> >> They have had problems intubating me, because I become rigid when given > the >> anesthetic. They now intubate me while awake, so if it happens, I will at >> least have a good airway established. >> >> I also come out of some anesthetics, especially locals and spinals long >> before they expect. >> >> laurie >> >>> From: z39z@... >>> Reply-To: >>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:36:25 -0500 >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: General Anaesthetics for a child... >>> >>> >>> Hi, Chris >>> >>> I too have had severe problems after surgeries, and I feel a likely >>> culprit is the general. If it were me, I would worry that my child >>> might have my tendencies, and do everything to avoid a general for him. >>> I believe sometimes they give generals because it is the easiest thing >>> to do for them, and alternatives might be just as effective if they >>> are pushed to use them. Just my two cents worth. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Sunny >>> >>> PS >>> I would love to compare notes as to the effect of general anesthsia on >>> people who have had problems. I won't go into my problems at this >>> time. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 I wake up in recovery, and they are trying to " get rid of me " , and I don't even know where I am... That's one of my main concerns with my illness, it seems that what works for a lot of people with mito doesn't work for me. I guess there's a lot of research they still need to do (imagine if they couldn't tell high blood pressure from low blood pressure). Take care, RH > >> > >> It's an interesting topic I started! I'm glad to have started it > > though, > >> because I've never found other people that had problems with > > general's like I do! > >> > >> My first two surgeries I just had the unbelievable nausea, course > > after that > >> they started giving me something in the sedation for that... On > > the third > >> surgery they could not rouse me for more than half an hour... On > > the next > >> surgery I came through, but was not able to speak or move for a > > time.. I was > >> awake, but that was my condition for a day... The following > > surgery after that > >> my body just melted down.... I wound up in the hospital for three > > days with > >> such an unbelievable reaction of vomiting & not being able to > > speak and move > >> properly, I felt in my head like a caged animal... Even after I > > left the > >> hospital I was ill for two weeks.... That was it, I plan never to > > have another > >> general unless it's a life or death situation.... So to say I want > > to avoid any > >> general for our son is an understatement > >> > >> We've had three opinions on his mouth, so we are okay to go > > ahead... of the > >> teeth they are taking, only four are adult teeth, and they really > > need to come > >> out, there is just absolutely no room for them in his mouth.... > > the others > >> are just babies that are either already loose or will become loose > > within a > >> year.... I'll just be glad when it's over... it may take more > > appointments, but > >> I think it's the safest thing to do... > >> > >> I really am relieved (sort of) to hear other people have some of > > the same > >> problems that I do... > >> Chris > >> In a message dated 1/28/2005 3:50:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, > >> writes: > >> > >> Subject: Re: General Anesthetics > >> > >> Thanks, Laurie and Barbara > >> > >> I take forever to come to, with extreme nausea and feeling just > > god > >> awful. With my first surgery (spinal) I was in the OR before 8:00 > > am, > >> and was the last to get out past midnight. I could not get warm, > > even > >> with the heated blankets they gave me. I rejected the pain > > injections > >> because it was suggested that they might increase the nausea, and > >> generally I just wanted to die. The pain from the spinal fusion > > was > >> secondary to the awful feeling of being in the twilight zone for > > hours. > >> My muscle weakness also go worse after the surgery. Not sure if > > the > >> anesthesia or the prolonged bedrest contributed most there. I > > just > >> felt I never was the same. > >> > >> After my second surgery I came out with noise sensitivity which > > was > >> really extreme for several days. It was very difficult then, and > > is > >> still a problem for me. I had a touch of it before, but got worse > >> right when I came out of that surgery. My rheumatoid count went > > sky > >> high, and I had extremely unusual muscle/tendon pain, stiffness > > and > >> weakness. That took about 2 years to settle down. I do not have > > RA, > >> Lupus, etc. The weakness remained. (That is why I am soooo happy > > that > >> weight lifting counters some of it) Mentally, I am not sure I > > ever was > >> the same after the surgeries either, but that is more difficult > > for me > >> to say. > >> > >> I feel strongly that the surgeries/anesthesias contributed to my > >> symptoms getting worse. I just did NOT recover the same way other > >> people I knew recovered. I am just curious if others here feel > > the > >> same way or had similar experiences. I didn't even understand > > about > >> the anesthesia until I reflected on it way after the second > > surgery, > >> but I intend to avoid generals if at all possible in the future. > >> > >> > >> Barbara, > >> I sure can see why you would want to avoid craniotomy! I really > > hope > >> that Lazier Knife treatment will work for you. > >> > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Sunny > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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