Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 All good points, Debra. I totally agree. Sunny > Alice, > I have very strong opinions about the Terri Schiavo case and will try > to temper them so not to offend anyone. This is NO ONE'S business > except her family's and that includes her parents as well as her > husband. Politicians are catching hell right now about SS changes so > bringing Terri to the media forefront gets some of the heat off them. > All of this would never have happened if she had a living will! That > is HER fault and a terrible mistake, however, her ongoing situation > has lead countless families to FINALLY open up and discuss the what > ifs of life and death. So really her lingering has served a great > purpose. > > Now, I totally distrust her husband, he has a common law wife and has > fathered two children by her...all will agree that as a young man he > deserved a life so he should have given guardianship to her parents > years ago and divorced Terri but all this over his finally remembering > she didn't want life support...come on why did he not remember that in > the ER? > > I have until the past week seen this through her parent's eyes and > how they will do anything for her...but all this brought our family to > discuss the situation. My 18yo son asked me if I would fight to keep > him alive if he was in Terri's condition....after thinking I said no, > because the qualities and gifts of her life have been gone for years > and now it is not really about love of Terri but a fight over who can > control the most. I love my son enough to let him pass if nothing can > be done to let him live. Terri is not living, she is existing and I > have enough love to let my children go...and I asked they do the same > for me. > > Debra > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 All good points, Debra. I totally agree. Sunny > Alice, > I have very strong opinions about the Terri Schiavo case and will try > to temper them so not to offend anyone. This is NO ONE'S business > except her family's and that includes her parents as well as her > husband. Politicians are catching hell right now about SS changes so > bringing Terri to the media forefront gets some of the heat off them. > All of this would never have happened if she had a living will! That > is HER fault and a terrible mistake, however, her ongoing situation > has lead countless families to FINALLY open up and discuss the what > ifs of life and death. So really her lingering has served a great > purpose. > > Now, I totally distrust her husband, he has a common law wife and has > fathered two children by her...all will agree that as a young man he > deserved a life so he should have given guardianship to her parents > years ago and divorced Terri but all this over his finally remembering > she didn't want life support...come on why did he not remember that in > the ER? > > I have until the past week seen this through her parent's eyes and > how they will do anything for her...but all this brought our family to > discuss the situation. My 18yo son asked me if I would fight to keep > him alive if he was in Terri's condition....after thinking I said no, > because the qualities and gifts of her life have been gone for years > and now it is not really about love of Terri but a fight over who can > control the most. I love my son enough to let him pass if nothing can > be done to let him live. Terri is not living, she is existing and I > have enough love to let my children go...and I asked they do the same > for me. > > Debra > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Debra Very well said. laurie > > All good points, Debra. I totally agree. > > Sunny > > > > > Alice, > > I have very strong opinions about the Terri Schiavo case and will try > > to temper them so not to offend anyone. This is NO ONE'S business > > except her family's and that includes her parents as well as her > > husband. Politicians are catching hell right now about SS changes so > > bringing Terri to the media forefront gets some of the heat off them. > > All of this would never have happened if she had a living will! That > > is HER fault and a terrible mistake, however, her ongoing situation > > has lead countless families to FINALLY open up and discuss the what > > ifs of life and death. So really her lingering has served a great > > purpose. > > > > Now, I totally distrust her husband, he has a common law wife and has > > fathered two children by her...all will agree that as a young man he > > deserved a life so he should have given guardianship to her parents > > years ago and divorced Terri but all this over his finally remembering > > she didn't want life support...come on why did he not remember that in > > the ER? > > > > I have until the past week seen this through her parent's eyes and > > how they will do anything for her...but all this brought our family to > > discuss the situation. My 18yo son asked me if I would fight to keep > > him alive if he was in Terri's condition....after thinking I said no, > > because the qualities and gifts of her life have been gone for years > > and now it is not really about love of Terri but a fight over who can > > control the most. I love my son enough to let him pass if nothing can > > be done to let him live. Terri is not living, she is existing and I > > have enough love to let my children go...and I asked they do the same > > for me. > > > > Debra > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Debra Very well said. laurie > > All good points, Debra. I totally agree. > > Sunny > > > > > Alice, > > I have very strong opinions about the Terri Schiavo case and will try > > to temper them so not to offend anyone. This is NO ONE'S business > > except her family's and that includes her parents as well as her > > husband. Politicians are catching hell right now about SS changes so > > bringing Terri to the media forefront gets some of the heat off them. > > All of this would never have happened if she had a living will! That > > is HER fault and a terrible mistake, however, her ongoing situation > > has lead countless families to FINALLY open up and discuss the what > > ifs of life and death. So really her lingering has served a great > > purpose. > > > > Now, I totally distrust her husband, he has a common law wife and has > > fathered two children by her...all will agree that as a young man he > > deserved a life so he should have given guardianship to her parents > > years ago and divorced Terri but all this over his finally remembering > > she didn't want life support...come on why did he not remember that in > > the ER? > > > > I have until the past week seen this through her parent's eyes and > > how they will do anything for her...but all this brought our family to > > discuss the situation. My 18yo son asked me if I would fight to keep > > him alive if he was in Terri's condition....after thinking I said no, > > because the qualities and gifts of her life have been gone for years > > and now it is not really about love of Terri but a fight over who can > > control the most. I love my son enough to let him pass if nothing can > > be done to let him live. Terri is not living, she is existing and I > > have enough love to let my children go...and I asked they do the same > > for me. > > > > Debra > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 I agree with you Debra, she is not living, just existing. This is one of the reasons why when my father asked for opinions about putting my mother on life support all three of us kids said no. She had had a massive seizure and brain damage. Steve (my sisters husband) was also there at the time. That was one of the decisions he made when she declined the second time. Janet Sample opinion-OT Alice, I have very strong opinions about the Terri Schiavo case and will try to temper them so not to offend anyone. This is NO ONE'S business except her family's and that includes her parents as well as her husband. Politicians are catching hell right now about SS changes so bringing Terri to the media forefront gets some of the heat off them. All of this would never have happened if she had a living will! That is HER fault and a terrible mistake, however, her ongoing situation has lead countless families to FINALLY open up and discuss the what ifs of life and death. So really her lingering has served a great purpose. Now, I totally distrust her husband, he has a common law wife and has fathered two children by her...all will agree that as a young man he deserved a life so he should have given guardianship to her parents years ago and divorced Terri but all this over his finally remembering she didn't want life support...come on why did he not remember that in the ER? I have until the past week seen this through her parent's eyes and how they will do anything for her...but all this brought our family to discuss the situation. My 18yo son asked me if I would fight to keep him alive if he was in Terri's condition....after thinking I said no, because the qualities and gifts of her life have been gone for years and now it is not really about love of Terri but a fight over who can control the most. I love my son enough to let him pass if nothing can be done to let him live. Terri is not living, she is existing and I have enough love to let my children go...and I asked they do the same for me. Debra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 I wanted to also offer that she's a Catholic, and I don't think they advocate starving to death. This is a complicated case, and I am partial to the situation because my mom starved to death over months (partially due to my dad's decisions). I hope no one has to look into the eyes of a loved one who is starving to death like I have had to, at least they'd shoot a dog (and they outlawed partial birth abortions). I hope the government involvement at least opens up some dialog about how people can be allowed to die (including assisted suicide). The point of the government involvement should not be " save Terri " or not, it should be to realize these issues exist, and not ignore that they are issues in a society such as ours. How can you make a judgement about whether she is " living " or not, even if you did know her personally? Should we stop feeding Alzheimer's patients if they forget to eat? ((NOTE: This post may be a result of some wine and the fact I took a bioethics course, a topic which prides itself on arguing both sides and never getting a satisfactory answer...) Take care, RH P.S. Get a living will! > > > > > Alice, > > > I have very strong opinions about the Terri Schiavo case and will try > > > to temper them so not to offend anyone. This is NO ONE'S business > > > except her family's and that includes her parents as well as her > > > husband. Politicians are catching hell right now about SS changes so > > > bringing Terri to the media forefront gets some of the heat off them. > > > All of this would never have happened if she had a living will! That > > > is HER fault and a terrible mistake, however, her ongoing situation > > > has lead countless families to FINALLY open up and discuss the what > > > ifs of life and death. So really her lingering has served a great > > > purpose. > > > > > > Now, I totally distrust her husband, he has a common law wife and has > > > fathered two children by her...all will agree that as a young man he > > > deserved a life so he should have given guardianship to her parents > > > years ago and divorced Terri but all this over his finally remembering > > > she didn't want life support...come on why did he not remember that in > > > the ER? > > > > > > I have until the past week seen this through her parent's eyes and > > > how they will do anything for her...but all this brought our family to > > > discuss the situation. My 18yo son asked me if I would fight to keep > > > him alive if he was in Terri's condition....after thinking I said no, > > > because the qualities and gifts of her life have been gone for years > > > and now it is not really about love of Terri but a fight over who can > > > control the most. I love my son enough to let him pass if nothing can > > > be done to let him live. Terri is not living, she is existing and I > > > have enough love to let my children go...and I asked they do the same > > > for me. > > > > > > Debra > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 I wanted to also offer that she's a Catholic, and I don't think they advocate starving to death. This is a complicated case, and I am partial to the situation because my mom starved to death over months (partially due to my dad's decisions). I hope no one has to look into the eyes of a loved one who is starving to death like I have had to, at least they'd shoot a dog (and they outlawed partial birth abortions). I hope the government involvement at least opens up some dialog about how people can be allowed to die (including assisted suicide). The point of the government involvement should not be " save Terri " or not, it should be to realize these issues exist, and not ignore that they are issues in a society such as ours. How can you make a judgement about whether she is " living " or not, even if you did know her personally? Should we stop feeding Alzheimer's patients if they forget to eat? ((NOTE: This post may be a result of some wine and the fact I took a bioethics course, a topic which prides itself on arguing both sides and never getting a satisfactory answer...) Take care, RH P.S. Get a living will! > > > > > Alice, > > > I have very strong opinions about the Terri Schiavo case and will try > > > to temper them so not to offend anyone. This is NO ONE'S business > > > except her family's and that includes her parents as well as her > > > husband. Politicians are catching hell right now about SS changes so > > > bringing Terri to the media forefront gets some of the heat off them. > > > All of this would never have happened if she had a living will! That > > > is HER fault and a terrible mistake, however, her ongoing situation > > > has lead countless families to FINALLY open up and discuss the what > > > ifs of life and death. So really her lingering has served a great > > > purpose. > > > > > > Now, I totally distrust her husband, he has a common law wife and has > > > fathered two children by her...all will agree that as a young man he > > > deserved a life so he should have given guardianship to her parents > > > years ago and divorced Terri but all this over his finally remembering > > > she didn't want life support...come on why did he not remember that in > > > the ER? > > > > > > I have until the past week seen this through her parent's eyes and > > > how they will do anything for her...but all this brought our family to > > > discuss the situation. My 18yo son asked me if I would fight to keep > > > him alive if he was in Terri's condition....after thinking I said no, > > > because the qualities and gifts of her life have been gone for years > > > and now it is not really about love of Terri but a fight over who can > > > control the most. I love my son enough to let him pass if nothing can > > > be done to let him live. Terri is not living, she is existing and I > > > have enough love to let my children go...and I asked they do the same > > > for me. > > > > > > Debra > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 My mom was not in a coma at any point, but she lost the ability to speak before she lost the ability to eat. Me and my three adult siblings had no input on her care, it became mechanical with my dad and my mom's friend providing all care and making all decisions. A question - is a medical power of attorney different than a regular power of attorney? Does a " regular " power of attorney cover both? Take care, RH > > > > In reading today's earlier digest I have more and more thoughts about Terri > > Schiavo... > > > > RH if you had to witness your mother's death as slow and agonizing through > > withholding feeding, then she was much more alert than Terri and for your > > suffering I am truly sorry. I have worked at two faith based hospitals and > > one public one and all the patients I dealt with were kept calm but alert if > > their condition warranted it. Everyone was able to say goodbyes to families > > if they wanted and only one man asked that he sleep. Ativan under the > > tongue,dissolves with two drops of water, there is no need to swallow and no > > fear of choking but there is calm and peace while still remaining alert. > > > > Children who are dying of cancer will point blank ask if it is going to hurt > > to die...compared to what they have already been through you can honestly > > say no, death is peaceful BUT if the cancer hurts more they are reassured > > that pain meds are ready. The greatest fear of patients and their families > > is pain, avoiding unnecessary suffering, once everyone agrees that there > > will be comfort, that becomes the main focus. There are many ways Terri can > > attain comfort if only the family would stop fighting. NONE of them are > > considered active euthanasia. > > > > The MO members need to really look and think about the issues R/T this case. > > Going before Congress is a horrible precedent...getting government involved > > where a panel decides someone's health fate is worse than horrible. All of > > you realize the nightmare of insurance...do we need another governmental > > body telling us what our end result should be...they already give many of us > > a cap on coverage or exclusion of conditions!!! We need to be very cautious > > with this as it sets up the rest of us for a possible downfall. What if it > > is voted that resuscitation is allowed only once and life support of only 21 > > days? What if it takes 22 days for your insurance to approve an internal > > defibrillator? > > > > This has all come about because " life support " can now keep someone going > > indefinitely...way past what early doctors ever dreamed possible. The only > > persons involved in your health care decisions should be you, your doctor > > and your family and all decisions should be documented. > > > > Debra > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 My mom was not in a coma at any point, but she lost the ability to speak before she lost the ability to eat. Me and my three adult siblings had no input on her care, it became mechanical with my dad and my mom's friend providing all care and making all decisions. A question - is a medical power of attorney different than a regular power of attorney? Does a " regular " power of attorney cover both? Take care, RH > > > > In reading today's earlier digest I have more and more thoughts about Terri > > Schiavo... > > > > RH if you had to witness your mother's death as slow and agonizing through > > withholding feeding, then she was much more alert than Terri and for your > > suffering I am truly sorry. I have worked at two faith based hospitals and > > one public one and all the patients I dealt with were kept calm but alert if > > their condition warranted it. Everyone was able to say goodbyes to families > > if they wanted and only one man asked that he sleep. Ativan under the > > tongue,dissolves with two drops of water, there is no need to swallow and no > > fear of choking but there is calm and peace while still remaining alert. > > > > Children who are dying of cancer will point blank ask if it is going to hurt > > to die...compared to what they have already been through you can honestly > > say no, death is peaceful BUT if the cancer hurts more they are reassured > > that pain meds are ready. The greatest fear of patients and their families > > is pain, avoiding unnecessary suffering, once everyone agrees that there > > will be comfort, that becomes the main focus. There are many ways Terri can > > attain comfort if only the family would stop fighting. NONE of them are > > considered active euthanasia. > > > > The MO members need to really look and think about the issues R/T this case. > > Going before Congress is a horrible precedent...getting government involved > > where a panel decides someone's health fate is worse than horrible. All of > > you realize the nightmare of insurance...do we need another governmental > > body telling us what our end result should be...they already give many of us > > a cap on coverage or exclusion of conditions!!! We need to be very cautious > > with this as it sets up the rest of us for a possible downfall. What if it > > is voted that resuscitation is allowed only once and life support of only 21 > > days? What if it takes 22 days for your insurance to approve an internal > > defibrillator? > > > > This has all come about because " life support " can now keep someone going > > indefinitely...way past what early doctors ever dreamed possible. The only > > persons involved in your health care decisions should be you, your doctor > > and your family and all decisions should be documented. > > > > Debra > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 RH It is my understanding that a medical power or attorney and a living will are the same. I know that different areas call them one thing and another something different. That would mean that it is different than a regular power of attorney. In my mom's case, my dad was designated as first party, then each of us kids from oldest to youngest. I was the one present at her bedside when the doctor came in. She was in a nursing home and they had her sign a form with her wishes when she entered and they listed both my father and I, but in no order. laurie > > > My mom was not in a coma at any point, but she lost the ability to > speak before she lost the ability to eat. Me and my three adult > siblings had no input on her care, it became mechanical with my dad > and my mom's friend providing all care and making all decisions. > > A question - is a medical power of attorney different than a regular > power of attorney? Does a " regular " power of attorney cover both? > > Take care, > RH > > > > > > > > In reading today's earlier digest I have more and more thoughts > about Terri > > > Schiavo... > > > > > > RH if you had to witness your mother's death as slow and > agonizing through > > > withholding feeding, then she was much more alert than Terri and > for your > > > suffering I am truly sorry. I have worked at two faith based > hospitals and > > > one public one and all the patients I dealt with were kept calm > but alert if > > > their condition warranted it. Everyone was able to say goodbyes > to families > > > if they wanted and only one man asked that he sleep. Ativan > under the > > > tongue,dissolves with two drops of water, there is no need to > swallow and no > > > fear of choking but there is calm and peace while still remaining > alert. > > > > > > Children who are dying of cancer will point blank ask if it is > going to hurt > > > to die...compared to what they have already been through you can > honestly > > > say no, death is peaceful BUT if the cancer hurts more they are > reassured > > > that pain meds are ready. The greatest fear of patients and > their families > > > is pain, avoiding unnecessary suffering, once everyone agrees > that there > > > will be comfort, that becomes the main focus. There are many > ways Terri can > > > attain comfort if only the family would stop fighting. NONE of > them are > > > considered active euthanasia. > > > > > > The MO members need to really look and think about the issues R/T > this case. > > > Going before Congress is a horrible precedent...getting > government involved > > > where a panel decides someone's health fate is worse than > horrible. All of > > > you realize the nightmare of insurance...do we need another > governmental > > > body telling us what our end result should be...they already give > many of us > > > a cap on coverage or exclusion of conditions!!! We need to be > very cautious > > > with this as it sets up the rest of us for a possible downfall. > What if it > > > is voted that resuscitation is allowed only once and life support > of only 21 > > > days? What if it takes 22 days for your insurance to approve an > internal > > > defibrillator? > > > > > > This has all come about because " life support " can now keep > someone going > > > indefinitely...way past what early doctors ever dreamed > possible. The only > > > persons involved in your health care decisions should be you, > your doctor > > > and your family and all decisions should be documented. > > > > > > Debra > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 RH It is my understanding that a medical power or attorney and a living will are the same. I know that different areas call them one thing and another something different. That would mean that it is different than a regular power of attorney. In my mom's case, my dad was designated as first party, then each of us kids from oldest to youngest. I was the one present at her bedside when the doctor came in. She was in a nursing home and they had her sign a form with her wishes when she entered and they listed both my father and I, but in no order. laurie > > > My mom was not in a coma at any point, but she lost the ability to > speak before she lost the ability to eat. Me and my three adult > siblings had no input on her care, it became mechanical with my dad > and my mom's friend providing all care and making all decisions. > > A question - is a medical power of attorney different than a regular > power of attorney? Does a " regular " power of attorney cover both? > > Take care, > RH > > > > > > > > In reading today's earlier digest I have more and more thoughts > about Terri > > > Schiavo... > > > > > > RH if you had to witness your mother's death as slow and > agonizing through > > > withholding feeding, then she was much more alert than Terri and > for your > > > suffering I am truly sorry. I have worked at two faith based > hospitals and > > > one public one and all the patients I dealt with were kept calm > but alert if > > > their condition warranted it. Everyone was able to say goodbyes > to families > > > if they wanted and only one man asked that he sleep. Ativan > under the > > > tongue,dissolves with two drops of water, there is no need to > swallow and no > > > fear of choking but there is calm and peace while still remaining > alert. > > > > > > Children who are dying of cancer will point blank ask if it is > going to hurt > > > to die...compared to what they have already been through you can > honestly > > > say no, death is peaceful BUT if the cancer hurts more they are > reassured > > > that pain meds are ready. The greatest fear of patients and > their families > > > is pain, avoiding unnecessary suffering, once everyone agrees > that there > > > will be comfort, that becomes the main focus. There are many > ways Terri can > > > attain comfort if only the family would stop fighting. NONE of > them are > > > considered active euthanasia. > > > > > > The MO members need to really look and think about the issues R/T > this case. > > > Going before Congress is a horrible precedent...getting > government involved > > > where a panel decides someone's health fate is worse than > horrible. All of > > > you realize the nightmare of insurance...do we need another > governmental > > > body telling us what our end result should be...they already give > many of us > > > a cap on coverage or exclusion of conditions!!! We need to be > very cautious > > > with this as it sets up the rest of us for a possible downfall. > What if it > > > is voted that resuscitation is allowed only once and life support > of only 21 > > > days? What if it takes 22 days for your insurance to approve an > internal > > > defibrillator? > > > > > > This has all come about because " life support " can now keep > someone going > > > indefinitely...way past what early doctors ever dreamed > possible. The only > > > persons involved in your health care decisions should be you, > your doctor > > > and your family and all decisions should be documented. > > > > > > Debra > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 RH, Yes, a Medical Power of Attorney is different than a Power of Attorney. The MPOA takes care of the persons medical care and wishes, and the POA takes care of the persons finances, stocks, bonds, home, etc... I do believe if you want the same person to represent you in both your medical care and personal/financial needs than just naming a Power of Attorney is enough. At least it is this way in the state of Pa. and N.J. I believe it is the same in every state. Ann-Marie Re: opinion-OT My mom was not in a coma at any point, but she lost the ability to speak before she lost the ability to eat. Me and my three adult siblings had no input on her care, it became mechanical with my dad and my mom's friend providing all care and making all decisions. A question - is a medical power of attorney different than a regular power of attorney? Does a " regular " power of attorney cover both? Take care, RH > > > > In reading today's earlier digest I have more and more thoughts about Terri > > Schiavo... > > > > RH if you had to witness your mother's death as slow and agonizing through > > withholding feeding, then she was much more alert than Terri and for your > > suffering I am truly sorry. I have worked at two faith based hospitals and > > one public one and all the patients I dealt with were kept calm but alert if > > their condition warranted it. Everyone was able to say goodbyes to families > > if they wanted and only one man asked that he sleep. Ativan under the > > tongue,dissolves with two drops of water, there is no need to swallow and no > > fear of choking but there is calm and peace while still remaining alert. > > > > Children who are dying of cancer will point blank ask if it is going to hurt > > to die...compared to what they have already been through you can honestly > > say no, death is peaceful BUT if the cancer hurts more they are reassured > > that pain meds are ready. The greatest fear of patients and their families > > is pain, avoiding unnecessary suffering, once everyone agrees that there > > will be comfort, that becomes the main focus. There are many ways Terri can > > attain comfort if only the family would stop fighting. NONE of them are > > considered active euthanasia. > > > > The MO members need to really look and think about the issues R/T this case. > > Going before Congress is a horrible precedent...getting government involved > > where a panel decides someone's health fate is worse than horrible. All of > > you realize the nightmare of insurance...do we need another governmental > > body telling us what our end result should be...they already give many of us > > a cap on coverage or exclusion of conditions!!! We need to be very cautious > > with this as it sets up the rest of us for a possible downfall. What if it > > is voted that resuscitation is allowed only once and life support of only 21 > > days? What if it takes 22 days for your insurance to approve an internal > > defibrillator? > > > > This has all come about because " life support " can now keep someone going > > indefinitely...way past what early doctors ever dreamed possible. The only > > persons involved in your health care decisions should be you, your doctor > > and your family and all decisions should be documented. > > > > Debra > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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