Re: OT: more methylation/histamine stuff (long)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/1/2002 4:59:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

kjorn@... writes:

> but if it is over-reactive it is a problem.

And...'s immune system is in overdrive. NK cells are sky high. Gak,

will I ever figure this out?

Liane Gentry Skye

<A HREF= " http://talkingwithpictures.com/ " >Talking With Pictures</A>

" nonverbal " does not have to mean " unable to communicate "

[Guest guest]

From http://www.msm.com

How MSM can help

MSM can help alleviate allergy symptoms by blocking

the receptivity of histamine in the

sensitive tissues. This prevents the histamine from

causing inflammation, swelling, and

fluid build-up, thus relieving a person’s symptoms.

Also MSM provides sulfur which aids in

the production of antibodies that can combat against

germs and allergens, and produces

beneficial enzymes.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Fred - what do you use, and how much etc and how do you know if a child

needs this - my experience in the past was MSM made our child hyper etc -

please elaborate on your own experiences

Cheers H

Re: [ ] OT: more methylation/histamine stuff (long)

> From http://www.msm.com

>

> How MSM can help

>

> MSM can help alleviate allergy symptoms by blocking

> the receptivity of histamine in the

> sensitive tissues. This prevents the histamine from

> causing inflammation, swelling, and

> fluid build-up, thus relieving a person's symptoms.

> Also MSM provides sulfur which aids in

> the production of antibodies that can combat against

> germs and allergens, and produces

> beneficial enzymes.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

This is amazing!!! This makes total sense with my daughter!! She

responded well to vitamin B,etc so I figured she probably has low

menthylation and have ordered her MSM-but-she also has had high

bacteria and allergy type symptoms that Claratin really does not

help. I have noticed its when she has a headache she doesn't sleep

well even if the headache is gone so this is probably when the

histimine is even higher!!! Wow,wow,wow. So, maybe the MSM will

regulate things if having low methylation causes high histamine-

right? I am really excited about this. The stuff about

fruit/phenols makes total sense. Thank you so much for all your

research,!!!

> More methylation/histamine stuff (this will be added to the

> methylation file)

>

> I spent a ton of time looking into this. Here are some of the

> results. Please take all of this in context of everything else,

> these biochemical reactions are all intertwined and complex.

>

> I was wondering WHY would histamine levels tell you about

> methylation function?

>

> Methionine is a methyl carrying amino acid + ATP/magnesium = SAMe.

> SAMe goes throughout the body delivering methyl groups to over 400

> different reactions.

>

> One way histamine is de-activated (eliminated) is by receiving a

> methyl group from SAMe. So if there is low methylation, there is

low

> SAMe, and the histamine levels are higher because of the lack of

> methyl groups to deactivate it. If there is high methylation, there

> is higher amounts of SAMe, and lots of histamine can be

deactivated.

>

>

> Where does this histamine come from?

> One source is when the amino acid histidine looses a carboxyl

group.

> Some bacteria can faciliate this conversion too. So if you have a

> bacteria overgrowth, it may be using up histidine and converting it

> to more histamine. Another big source is directly from foods. Some

> people may have a problem eliminating histamine from their foods

and

> this causes reactions which LOOK LIKE allergies, but are not true

> IgE mediated allergies. You may see a histamine reaction which is

> just too high levels of histamine and not because an antigen caused

> an immune reaction to something.

>

>

> What are histamine containing foods?

> Here is a great site on what foods contain what chemicals. The

first

> link tells about " histamine intolerance " :

> http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergydietitian/fi/FI_vasoactive.html

>

> This link gives the table of amine foods:

> http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergydietitian/fi/FI_FS_amines.html

>

> Notice that many of the foods are often considered " phenol " foods

> even though they are not high in salicylates or phenols. They are

> high in amines/histamine. There are also foods that trigger a

> histamine reaction. This means that they directly cause a release

of

> histamine - in some people, this includes the natural salicylates

or

> other common additives:

> Egg, strawberries, cocoa, chocolate, bananas, citrus, pineapple,

> pork, soy, benzoates, sulfites, nitrates, BHA, BHT, food colors,

> MSG.

>

> The similarity with this and the Feingold program is very

> interesting.

>

> If someone has low methylation (maybe B12 deficiency or metal

> interference, etc.) then you may have high histamine levels and a

> problem eliminating the additional histamine from foods. You would

> also have more chemical running around in the body triggering

> histamine reactions.

>

>

> What lowers histamine?

> Taking an antihistamine is one way. Antihistamines typically work

by

> either inhibiting the release of histamine (like during an immune

> reaction) or blocking the uptake of histamine (like from food).

> Magnesium and vitamin C are natural anti-histamines. Vitamin C can

> destroy histamine directly. This is why these supplements are

> recommended when you are sick for any reason.

>

> Another way to reduce histamine levels is to supply antioxidants.

> Free radicals are produced from both external sources and internal

> natural biochemical reactions. Too many free radicals provoke

> histamine reactions. Natural " phenols " in foods such as

polyphenols,

> flavenoids, bioflavenoids, beta-caroteine and all those other

things

> that No-Fenol appears to make more available to the body act as

> antihistamines. These natural phenols are also the

> trendy " antioxidants " for eliminating free radicals in the body

> which many places are advertising now. They neutralize the free

> radicals which cause histamine reactions. Less free radicals, less

> histamine reaction. These phenols coming from the fruits and

> vegetables lower histamine by 2 or 3 different mechanisms. Again,

it

> gets complicated and there is no ONE definitive pathway.

>

> Salicylates occur in most foods as a mean to " protect " the plant

> from injury. When the surface of the fruit is damaged (disease,

> injury, bugs, something taking a bite out of it), the food comes

> into contact with oxygen, and starts to break down via oxidation.

> The salicylates/phenol in the food are an anti-oxidant which

> preserves the food. This is why if you take a bite out of an apple,

> the " bite-mark " starts to turn brown. The apple is attempting to

> heal the injury like applying a bandaid and slow or stop the

rotting

> oxidation.

>

> Remember that " phenols " are a huge category of compounds. Some are

> beneficial from natural foods, but others may be a problem. Saying

> something has " phenol " is like saying something

contains " nitrogen " .

> It could be anything.

>

> A main mechanism of lowering histamine is by an enzyme produced in

> the gut mucosa. So if you have an injured gut for whatever reason,

> less enzyme may be produced, and this may mean you have a lower

> ability to eliminate histamine (especially from food sources). If

> you have multiple chemical allergies, you may want to consider

> a " histamine intolerance " or that you have histamine levels that

run

> high. Inability to get rid of too much histamine would make you

> reactive to many foods, and overreactive to many things in the

> environment. Common additives such as artificial colorings,

> sulfites, BHA, BHT, benzoates, etc, can all inhibit this histamine

> degrading enzyme. Another way these can be problematic.

>

>

> What does histamine do?

> Histamine is located throughout the entire body. In many instances,

> it causes inflammation, runny nose, itching, hives, sore throat,

> coughing, flushing, headache and all those other typical allergy

> reactions. In the gut, it signals the production of gastric acid.

> This is why some remedies for acid stomach are really

> antihistamines. In the brain, it functions like a neurotransmitter.

> A couple of functions include affecting hunger or feeding, and also

> sleep/wake cycles (the circadian rhythm). A bit more histamine

keeps

> you awake, and lower histamine levels help you sleep. This is why

> many antihistamines make you drowsy. Some newer antihistamines have

> been developed to get around this issue.

>

> http://www.thedietdoctor.com/incl/571.cfm

> The role of antioxidants in the immune system is multifaceted as

> they can serve to either suppress or enhance the immune response.

> Depending on the desired response, different antioxidants can play

> different roles in balancing the immune response effectively in an

> individual. Beta-carotene, selenium, vitamin C, and vitamin E are

> all examples of exogenous antioxidants. In addition to these that

> come from our diet, the body also has a system of enzymes, which

> form the endogenous antioxidants. Together, they work to eliminate

> free radicals from the body.

>

> As andrew pointed out, if the immune system is under-reactive, this

> is a problem, but if it is over-reactive it is a problem. People

may

> have any assortment of these things going on at a time.