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Janet. Thanks for bringing this up. I had a similar idea a couple of

years ago, but I don't think the resources in the files section would be

enough. What I think we need is a web site that would allow any

individual to create an account, upload hair test and other test result,

make notes about symptoms, progress and whatever else is relevant to

documenting a case. That could form the nucleus of a database that

might be used for future research purposes. It would also be a central

location that could be used for communication. If part of the data

stored in any account could be made public, then list-mates could go,

have a look, and make suggestions. Of course, this could all be made

anonymous for those who would like to keep it that way.

What think you?

Dev.

------------------

Hello listmates,

I was wondering if there was any place where data on people using

Andy's protocol was being collected.

We have over 1000 members, many of whom, I assume are chelating now,

or have in the past, or will in the future.

I would think starting a file to include gender, age, symptoms before

chelation, # of rounds, improvements after chelation, etc would be

very helpful, both to the fellow listmates and for gaining credibility

in the medical community.

Is this type of data being collected anywhere? Should we setup a

file/poll/database?

??

Thanks,

Janet

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Janet. Thanks for bringing this up. I had a similar idea a couple of

years ago, but I don't think the resources in the files section would be

enough. What I think we need is a web site that would allow any

individual to create an account, upload hair test and other test result,

make notes about symptoms, progress and whatever else is relevant to

documenting a case. That could form the nucleus of a database that

might be used for future research purposes. It would also be a central

location that could be used for communication. If part of the data

stored in any account could be made public, then list-mates could go,

have a look, and make suggestions. Of course, this could all be made

anonymous for those who would like to keep it that way.

What think you?

Dev.

------------------

Hello listmates,

I was wondering if there was any place where data on people using

Andy's protocol was being collected.

We have over 1000 members, many of whom, I assume are chelating now,

or have in the past, or will in the future.

I would think starting a file to include gender, age, symptoms before

chelation, # of rounds, improvements after chelation, etc would be

very helpful, both to the fellow listmates and for gaining credibility

in the medical community.

Is this type of data being collected anywhere? Should we setup a

file/poll/database?

??

Thanks,

Janet

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Dave,

While you were on sabbatical, DeanNetwork created web pages that are

the beginning of what you describe below. It is just a small part of

his healing network. Look here:

http://livingnetwork.co.za/dentalnetwork/

and click on the " Hair tests " link at the bottom right. The tests are

there. In some cases some symptoms and other tests are reported there

as well. Interpretation and more details of the person's history are

in the archives here (and would have to be searched for because no one

is keeping track of which post nos match which tests). In some cases

the report of recovery is in our archives (for example search for

Dean's " I'm Cured " post, I think TK has it in the progress report file

in the archives).

I have also thought of setting up a form for members to fill in during

chelation to track progress. If anyone wants to do it, let me know

(not that I know how to go about it ....)

J

>

> Janet. Thanks for bringing this up. I had a similar idea a couple of

> years ago, but I don't think the resources in the files section

would be

> enough. What I think we need is a web site that would allow any

> individual to create an account, upload hair test and other test

result,

> make notes about symptoms, progress and whatever else is relevant to

> documenting a case. That could form the nucleus of a database that

> might be used for future research purposes. It would also be a central

> location that could be used for communication. If part of the data

> stored in any account could be made public, then list-mates could go,

> have a look, and make suggestions. Of course, this could all be made

> anonymous for those who would like to keep it that way.

>

> What think you?

>

> Dev.

> ------------------

> Hello listmates,

>

> I was wondering if there was any place where data on people using

> Andy's protocol was being collected.

> We have over 1000 members, many of whom, I assume are chelating now,

> or have in the past, or will in the future.

>

> I would think starting a file to include gender, age, symptoms before

> chelation, # of rounds, improvements after chelation, etc would be

> very helpful, both to the fellow listmates and for gaining credibility

> in the medical community.

>

> Is this type of data being collected anywhere? Should we setup a

> file/poll/database?

> ??

>

> Thanks,

> Janet

>

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Dave,

While you were on sabbatical, DeanNetwork created web pages that are

the beginning of what you describe below. It is just a small part of

his healing network. Look here:

http://livingnetwork.co.za/dentalnetwork/

and click on the " Hair tests " link at the bottom right. The tests are

there. In some cases some symptoms and other tests are reported there

as well. Interpretation and more details of the person's history are

in the archives here (and would have to be searched for because no one

is keeping track of which post nos match which tests). In some cases

the report of recovery is in our archives (for example search for

Dean's " I'm Cured " post, I think TK has it in the progress report file

in the archives).

I have also thought of setting up a form for members to fill in during

chelation to track progress. If anyone wants to do it, let me know

(not that I know how to go about it ....)

J

>

> Janet. Thanks for bringing this up. I had a similar idea a couple of

> years ago, but I don't think the resources in the files section

would be

> enough. What I think we need is a web site that would allow any

> individual to create an account, upload hair test and other test

result,

> make notes about symptoms, progress and whatever else is relevant to

> documenting a case. That could form the nucleus of a database that

> might be used for future research purposes. It would also be a central

> location that could be used for communication. If part of the data

> stored in any account could be made public, then list-mates could go,

> have a look, and make suggestions. Of course, this could all be made

> anonymous for those who would like to keep it that way.

>

> What think you?

>

> Dev.

> ------------------

> Hello listmates,

>

> I was wondering if there was any place where data on people using

> Andy's protocol was being collected.

> We have over 1000 members, many of whom, I assume are chelating now,

> or have in the past, or will in the future.

>

> I would think starting a file to include gender, age, symptoms before

> chelation, # of rounds, improvements after chelation, etc would be

> very helpful, both to the fellow listmates and for gaining credibility

> in the medical community.

>

> Is this type of data being collected anywhere? Should we setup a

> file/poll/database?

> ??

>

> Thanks,

> Janet

>

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Hi Janet and Dev

I know that DeanSA wanted the same thing and he started gathering everyone's

info with our hair tests, saliva tests,etc on his website. he also thought it a

good idea to at least start gathering iinfo which he might have started maybe 2

years ago.

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html

I'm replying for him as I know he has gone away camping this weekend and will

only be back on Monday.

Good idea.

I'm sure he will respond after the weekend.

Kai (SA)

Re: Call for data?

Janet. Thanks for bringing this up. I had a similar idea a couple of

years ago, but I don't think the resources in the files section would be

enough. What I think we need is a web site that would allow any

individual to create an account, upload hair test and other test result,

make notes about symptoms, progress and whatever else is relevant to

documenting a case. That could form the nucleus of a database that

might be used for future research purposes. It would also be a central

location that could be used for communication. If part of the data

stored in any account could be made public, then list-mates could go,

have a look, and make suggestions. Of course, this could all be made

anonymous for those who would like to keep it that way.

What think you?

Dev.

------------------

Hello listmates,

I was wondering if there was any place where data on people using

Andy's protocol was being collected.

We have over 1000 members, many of whom, I assume are chelating now,

or have in the past, or will in the future.

I would think starting a file to include gender, age, symptoms before

chelation, # of rounds, improvements after chelation, etc would be

very helpful, both to the fellow listmates and for gaining credibility

in the medical community.

Is this type of data being collected anywhere? Should we setup a

file/poll/database?

??

Thanks,

Janet

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Share on other sites

Hi Janet and Dev

I know that DeanSA wanted the same thing and he started gathering everyone's

info with our hair tests, saliva tests,etc on his website. he also thought it a

good idea to at least start gathering iinfo which he might have started maybe 2

years ago.

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html

I'm replying for him as I know he has gone away camping this weekend and will

only be back on Monday.

Good idea.

I'm sure he will respond after the weekend.

Kai (SA)

Re: Call for data?

Janet. Thanks for bringing this up. I had a similar idea a couple of

years ago, but I don't think the resources in the files section would be

enough. What I think we need is a web site that would allow any

individual to create an account, upload hair test and other test result,

make notes about symptoms, progress and whatever else is relevant to

documenting a case. That could form the nucleus of a database that

might be used for future research purposes. It would also be a central

location that could be used for communication. If part of the data

stored in any account could be made public, then list-mates could go,

have a look, and make suggestions. Of course, this could all be made

anonymous for those who would like to keep it that way.

What think you?

Dev.

------------------

Hello listmates,

I was wondering if there was any place where data on people using

Andy's protocol was being collected.

We have over 1000 members, many of whom, I assume are chelating now,

or have in the past, or will in the future.

I would think starting a file to include gender, age, symptoms before

chelation, # of rounds, improvements after chelation, etc would be

very helpful, both to the fellow listmates and for gaining credibility

in the medical community.

Is this type of data being collected anywhere? Should we setup a

file/poll/database?

??

Thanks,

Janet

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Janet I would like to see the same thing.

I just finished my last removel of 13 fillings yesterday and not sure to do DMSA

or not.

I would love to be seeing alot of sucess stories but so far have not.

Guys I am not saying it does not work,just saying have not seen the stories.

RG

Call for data?

Hello listmates,

I was wondering if there was any place where data on people using

Andy's protocol was being collected.

We have over 1000 members, many of whom, I assume are chelating now,

or have in the past, or will in the future.

I would think starting a file to include gender, age, symptoms before

chelation, # of rounds, improvements after chelation, etc would be

very helpful, both to the fellow listmates and for gaining credibility

in the medical community.

Is this type of data being collected anywhere? Should we setup a

file/poll/database???

Thanks,

Janet

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Share on other sites

Janet I would like to see the same thing.

I just finished my last removel of 13 fillings yesterday and not sure to do DMSA

or not.

I would love to be seeing alot of sucess stories but so far have not.

Guys I am not saying it does not work,just saying have not seen the stories.

RG

Call for data?

Hello listmates,

I was wondering if there was any place where data on people using

Andy's protocol was being collected.

We have over 1000 members, many of whom, I assume are chelating now,

or have in the past, or will in the future.

I would think starting a file to include gender, age, symptoms before

chelation, # of rounds, improvements after chelation, etc would be

very helpful, both to the fellow listmates and for gaining credibility

in the medical community.

Is this type of data being collected anywhere? Should we setup a

file/poll/database???

Thanks,

Janet

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---RG have a look under the files. There are success stories. From

personal experience I am still a work in progress! i had 12 amalgams

removed last year and delayed DMSA until Nov --wish I had started

sooner. I am now on round 11 and have just added ALA. i don't have

a miracle story but I do see progress, my family sees progress.

I became a fan of this protocol before I started because Andy's work

finally explained why I had trouble with sulfur foods, why I always

felt sped up (fast phase 1 liver). These two things alone have made

my life liveable while I get to the serious task of getting well

enough to enjoy my children. It is not a fast road but it so far is

heading me in the right direction.

Best of luck. Don't let fear stop you trying DMSA. It did for me

and I wish looking back I was bolder.

Colette

> Guys I am not saying it does not work,just saying have not seen the

stories.

> RG

> Call for data?

>

>

> Hello listmates,

> I was wondering if there was any place where data on people using

> Andy's protocol was being collected.

> We have over 1000 members, many of whom, I assume are chelating

now,

> or have in the past, or will in the future.

>

> I would think starting a file to include gender, age, symptoms

before

> chelation, # of rounds, improvements after chelation, etc would

be

> very helpful, both to the fellow listmates and for gaining

credibility

> in the medical community.

>

> Is this type of data being collected anywhere? Should we setup a

> file/poll/database???

>

> Thanks,

> Janet

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

---RG have a look under the files. There are success stories. From

personal experience I am still a work in progress! i had 12 amalgams

removed last year and delayed DMSA until Nov --wish I had started

sooner. I am now on round 11 and have just added ALA. i don't have

a miracle story but I do see progress, my family sees progress.

I became a fan of this protocol before I started because Andy's work

finally explained why I had trouble with sulfur foods, why I always

felt sped up (fast phase 1 liver). These two things alone have made

my life liveable while I get to the serious task of getting well

enough to enjoy my children. It is not a fast road but it so far is

heading me in the right direction.

Best of luck. Don't let fear stop you trying DMSA. It did for me

and I wish looking back I was bolder.

Colette

> Guys I am not saying it does not work,just saying have not seen the

stories.

> RG

> Call for data?

>

>

> Hello listmates,

> I was wondering if there was any place where data on people using

> Andy's protocol was being collected.

> We have over 1000 members, many of whom, I assume are chelating

now,

> or have in the past, or will in the future.

>

> I would think starting a file to include gender, age, symptoms

before

> chelation, # of rounds, improvements after chelation, etc would

be

> very helpful, both to the fellow listmates and for gaining

credibility

> in the medical community.

>

> Is this type of data being collected anywhere? Should we setup a

> file/poll/database???

>

> Thanks,

> Janet

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Thanks for the info, .

I think that DeanNetwork has a great start, but you are right, it

would be great to have more linkage between tests, progress, etc.

A form might help with this.

What if a person submitted their hair test, age, gender, symptoms,

then the dates of each chelation round with comments, etc. Then a

follow up hair test and comments on improvements, etc.?

I know this is not someone everyone will want to do or be able to

do, but I'm sure many will want to give test results and some amount

of chelation notes (if not comment and dates on every round, at

least the number of rounds needed, etc)

I like Dave's ideas too. Not sure how to do this, but maybe if

enough of us toss around some ideas, we can make something happen.

Janet

------------------------------------------------------

Interpretation and more details of the person's history are

> in the archives here (and would have to be searched for because no

one

> is keeping track of which post nos match which tests). In some

cases

> the report of recovery is in our archives (for example search for

> Dean's " I'm Cured " post, I think TK has it in the progress report

file

> in the archives).

>

> I have also thought of setting up a form for members to fill in

during

> chelation to track progress. If anyone wants to do it, let me know

> (not that I know how to go about it ....)

>

> J

>

>

> >

> > Janet. Thanks for bringing this up. I had a similar idea a

couple of

> > years ago, but I don't think the resources in the files section

> would be

> > enough. What I think we need is a web site that would allow any

> > individual to create an account, upload hair test and other test

> result,

> > make notes about symptoms, progress and whatever else is

relevant to

> > documenting a case. That could form the nucleus of a database

that

> > might be used for future research purposes. It would also be a

central

> > location that could be used for communication. If part of the

data

> > stored in any account could be made public, then list-mates

could go,

> > have a look, and make suggestions. Of course, this could all be

made

> > anonymous for those who would like to keep it that way.

> >

> > What think you?

> >

> > Dev.

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My wife and I use a spreadsheet to keep track of each chelation round.

It keeps track of the number of days on and off, and we write in notes

for each round. After doing many rounds, it's a great tool to look at

and see the progress.

I will upload the spreadsheet to this group. It can also be fetched

from this url:

http://onibasu.com/chelationlog.xls

Everyone is welcome to give it a try. I would love to hear any feedback!

Jay

>

> Thanks for the info, .

> I think that DeanNetwork has a great start, but you are right, it

> would be great to have more linkage between tests, progress, etc.

> A form might help with this.

>

> What if a person submitted their hair test, age, gender, symptoms,

> then the dates of each chelation round with comments, etc. Then a

> follow up hair test and comments on improvements, etc.?

> I know this is not someone everyone will want to do or be able to

> do, but I'm sure many will want to give test results and some amount

> of chelation notes (if not comment and dates on every round, at

> least the number of rounds needed, etc)

>

> I like Dave's ideas too. Not sure how to do this, but maybe if

> enough of us toss around some ideas, we can make something happen.

>

> Janet

>

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Wow, this is great, Jay. I think collecting this kind of data in a

well thought out, standardized format could end up providing a

valuable database to help quantify the benefits of chelation over

time, the impact of certain chelators for different types of

individuals, the impact of dosage, etc. (One of my biggest questions

is how much person-to-person variation exists in the symptom-reduction

trend over time. I suspect it's pretty high.)

By completing entries in such a spreadsheet, it also helps the

individual monitor his/her own progress and adjust as needed. I'm

keeping a similar type of log myself since I started chelating

(several months prior, actually).

If this group is really committed to generating such a database to

provide meaningful, useful, and interpretable results, it is essential

that the database be designed up front to capture all important

information, and in a format that is both user-friendly and

computer-friendly (easy to aggregate/analyze).

Here's some specific feedback on your spreadsheet, Jay.

1. I think you can get away with using only the Combined spreadsheet,

which will accommodate everyone and simplify the file a bit

2. Include fields for " # hours between doses " for each chelator

3. Include fields for supplements being taken

4. Have two qualitative " Symptoms " fields -- " During round " and " Post

round " -- for general descriptions

5. Have two quantitative " Symptoms " fields -- " During round " and " Post

round " -- for a numeric rating (scale of 1-10, for example) of symptoms.

6. Have one other free-form text field for " General/Other Comments "

Breaking symptoms into " During round " and " Post round " is important to

distinguish side effects due to chelating agents versus post-round

mercury redistribution effects. I believe that some people feel

better on round, others off-round. And by using a numeric scale,

analyzing the trend of symptoms over time would be possible.

There are many other considerations that could be addressed, of

course; these are just a few ideas. I'd rather err on the side of

requesting too much data, rather than wishing it was collected later

on. But the spreadsheet should not be too complex that people don't

want to use it, of course.

There's no need to reinvent the wheel, so if DeanNetwork or someone

else has already started collecting this type of data and has a data

template, perhaps that would be a good place to start. I'm sure Andy

has collected some of this type of data himself and will have opinions

on what data should be collected if a new initiative is kicked-off.

I'd be willing to help out with this effort, if needed. (My

background is in stats/data analysis, so I have a natural interest in

this type of endeavor.)

Sorry if I rambled on a bit...

Regards,

Darren

> >

> > Thanks for the info, .

> > I think that DeanNetwork has a great start, but you are right, it

> > would be great to have more linkage between tests, progress, etc.

> > A form might help with this.

> >

> > What if a person submitted their hair test, age, gender, symptoms,

> > then the dates of each chelation round with comments, etc. Then a

> > follow up hair test and comments on improvements, etc.?

> > I know this is not someone everyone will want to do or be able to

> > do, but I'm sure many will want to give test results and some amount

> > of chelation notes (if not comment and dates on every round, at

> > least the number of rounds needed, etc)

> >

> > I like Dave's ideas too. Not sure how to do this, but maybe if

> > enough of us toss around some ideas, we can make something happen.

> >

> > Janet

> >

>

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Well, I was thinking about this a few months ago... that it would be

nice if there were a place where people could put their story, whether

complete or on-going. Where it would exist even when they'd gone on

and gotten real lives again (which is what we all want to do, right?).

I even went so far as to register a couple of appropriate domain

names, since I have some excess available web resources.

DeanNetwork has put together a wonderful information site, and this

group provides great help and encouragement, what seems to be missing

is the on-going story and the collection of data.

So, I have these two domain names and I still have web resources

available. The problem, of course, is that there's a huge risk in

hosting a site where anyone can post anything, so access would have to

be controlled. I also feel very strongly that Cutler's protocol is

the only way to go and I don't want to encourage other detox/chelation

protocols. I think limiting contributors to FDC members following the

Cutler protocol would be necessary.

Now the place where I host my sites has SohoLaunch as a site builder,

which allows individual contributors and doesn't require them to know

how to write web pages, so I think that would be easy for people to

use. There are also flash tutorials for it available at

http://info.soholaunch.com/websitebuilder/tutorials/

What I can't decide is what format the site should have - whether

blog-style or a site where each contributor can log in and

create/maintain their own pages. I would also like to see a section

where we can gather the useful forms (or links to them) that various

list members have created. For example, the spreadsheet that Jay has

posted is terrific, but I had no idea of it's existence. I've also

created a spreadsheet for supplement ramp-up that I've found very helpful.

That's as far as I got before I got overwhelmed. But I never thought

about it being a collaborative effort, until this thread.

Collaboration makes a lot of sense for toxic people, since I assume we

all have energy/time limitations.

What do others think? Is there interest in pursuing this? Who would

want to help?

FWIW, I am not a web-site builder. But I have a bit of a domain

habit... I bought my first one in 1996. Well, it's better than

drinking, right? But that is why I have a hosting account, and why it

has space available.

>

> Janet. Thanks for bringing this up. I had a similar idea a couple of

> years ago, but I don't think the resources in the files section

would be

> enough. What I think we need is a web site that would allow any

> individual to create an account, upload hair test and other test

result,

> make notes about symptoms, progress and whatever else is relevant to

> documenting a case. That could form the nucleus of a database that

> might be used for future research purposes. It would also be a central

> location that could be used for communication. If part of the data

> stored in any account could be made public, then list-mates could go,

> have a look, and make suggestions. Of course, this could all be made

> anonymous for those who would like to keep it that way.

>

> What think you?

>

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I haven't had time to keep up with emails and this thread lately, but I think

this is a great idea, and kicking around ideas is great. Keep it up, and I will

read everything pretty soon. And I'm sure would like to see something

like this also, she's just having a rough time lately, so hasn't kept up also.

So send her some good wishes and healing energy everybody! We need

her!---------Jackie

In frequent-dose-chelation yankeeexile wrote:

Well, I was thinking about this a few months ago... that it would be

nice if there were a place where people could put their story, whether

complete or on-going. Where it would exist even when they'd gone on

and gotten real lives again (which is what we all want to do, right?).

I even went so far as to register a couple of appropriate domain

names, since I have some excess available web resources.

DeanNetwork has put together a wonderful information site, and this

group provides great help and encouragement, what seems to be missing

is the on-going story and the collection of data.

So, I have these two domain names and I still have web resources

available. The problem, of course, is that there's a huge risk in

hosting a site where anyone can post anything, so access would have to

be controlled. I also feel very strongly that Cutler's protocol is

the only way to go and I don't want to encourage other detox/chelation

protocols. I think limiting contributors to FDC members following the

Cutler protocol would be necessary.

Now the place where I host my sites has SohoLaunch as a site builder,

which allows individual contributors and doesn't require them to know

how to write web pages, so I think that would be easy for people to

use. There are also flash tutorials for it available at

http://info.soholaunch.com/websitebuilder/tutorials/

What I can't decide is what format the site should have - whether

blog-style or a site where each contributor can log in and

create/maintain their own pages. I would also like to see a section

where we can gather the useful forms (or links to them) that various

list members have created. For example, the spreadsheet that Jay has

posted is terrific, but I had no idea of it's existence. I've also

created a spreadsheet for supplement ramp-up that I've found very helpful.

That's as far as I got before I got overwhelmed. But I never thought

about it being a collaborative effort, until this thread.

Collaboration makes a lot of sense for toxic people, since I assume we

all have energy/time limitations.

What do others think? Is there interest in pursuing this? Who would

want to help?

FWIW, I am not a web-site builder. But I have a bit of a domain

habit... I bought my first one in 1996. Well, it's better than

drinking, right? But that is why I have a hosting account, and why it

has space available.

>

> Janet. Thanks for bringing this up. I had a similar idea a couple of

> years ago, but I don't think the resources in the files section

would be

> enough. What I think we need is a web site that would allow any

> individual to create an account, upload hair test and other test

result,

> make notes about symptoms, progress and whatever else is relevant to

> documenting a case. That could form the nucleus of a database that

> might be used for future research purposes. It would also be a central

> location that could be used for communication. If part of the data

> stored in any account could be made public, then list-mates could go,

> have a look, and make suggestions. Of course, this could all be made

> anonymous for those who would like to keep it that way.

>

> What think you?

>

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I agree with Darren!

This is a great spreadsheet,Jay! - thanks for sharing.

Maybe we could modify this slightly and post with hair samples

either on an existing website or a new one or somewhere.

Janet

> > >

> > > Thanks for the info, .

> > > I think that DeanNetwork has a great start, but you are right,

it

> > > would be great to have more linkage between tests, progress,

etc.

> > > A form might help with this.

> > >

> > > What if a person submitted their hair test, age, gender,

symptoms,

> > > then the dates of each chelation round with comments, etc.

Then a

> > > follow up hair test and comments on improvements, etc.?

> > > I know this is not someone everyone will want to do or be able

to

> > > do, but I'm sure many will want to give test results and some

amount

> > > of chelation notes (if not comment and dates on every round,

at

> > > least the number of rounds needed, etc)

> > >

> > > I like Dave's ideas too. Not sure how to do this, but maybe if

> > > enough of us toss around some ideas, we can make something

happen.

> > >

> > > Janet

> > >

> >

>

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Great spreadsheet Jay, that's my kind of thing. I'm gonna start using

that now. its just what i need to keep track. If you do update/make

changes to the spread sheet let me know or post it up.

Thanks for sharing that, very useful indeed.

Sunshine

>

> My wife and I use a spreadsheet to keep track of each chelation

round.

> It keeps track of the number of days on and off, and we write in

notes

> for each round. After doing many rounds, it's a great tool to look

at

> and see the progress.

>

> I will upload the spreadsheet to this group. It can also be fetched

> from this url:

> http://onibasu.com/chelationlog.xls

>

> Everyone is welcome to give it a try. I would love to hear any

feedback!

>

> Jay

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Thanks for your feedback Darren, it was much appreciated!

My wife re-did the spreadsheet and took on some of your suggestions,

namely having only one combined sheet, and a new column for number of

doses per 24h (people have all sorts of dosage timings but it can be

summed up by the number of doses).

She decided to leave out supplements and before/after notes. If more

people say they think it's useful, it could be incorporated, but

there's a lot of variability in how supplements are taken and she

wanted to keep things simple. Separating the symptoms into

before/after is the same issue because once someone goes through a few

dozen rounds, the particular pattern of symptoms for a round tend to

be from the same subset of symptoms over and over, so it's simpler

just to write a summary.

When we first started chelating, we used to write exhaustive notes on

our symptoms and supplements during and after rounds with a subjective

scale for things like stomach irritation. After doing 30 rounds, we

realized it wasn't worth the effort because our symptoms and

supplements didn't change much.

The new version of the spreadsheet is at:

http://onibasu.com/wiki/Chelationlog

Jay

>

> Wow, this is great, Jay. I think collecting this kind of data in a

> well thought out, standardized format could end up providing a

> valuable database to help quantify the benefits of chelation over

> time, the impact of certain chelators for different types of

> individuals, the impact of dosage, etc. (One of my biggest questions

> is how much person-to-person variation exists in the symptom-reduction

> trend over time. I suspect it's pretty high.)

>

> By completing entries in such a spreadsheet, it also helps the

> individual monitor his/her own progress and adjust as needed. I'm

> keeping a similar type of log myself since I started chelating

> (several months prior, actually).

>

> If this group is really committed to generating such a database to

> provide meaningful, useful, and interpretable results, it is essential

> that the database be designed up front to capture all important

> information, and in a format that is both user-friendly and

> computer-friendly (easy to aggregate/analyze).

>

> Here's some specific feedback on your spreadsheet, Jay.

> 1. I think you can get away with using only the Combined spreadsheet,

> which will accommodate everyone and simplify the file a bit

> 2. Include fields for " # hours between doses " for each chelator

> 3. Include fields for supplements being taken

> 4. Have two qualitative " Symptoms " fields -- " During round " and " Post

> round " -- for general descriptions

> 5. Have two quantitative " Symptoms " fields -- " During round " and " Post

> round " -- for a numeric rating (scale of 1-10, for example) of

symptoms.

> 6. Have one other free-form text field for " General/Other Comments "

>

> Breaking symptoms into " During round " and " Post round " is important to

> distinguish side effects due to chelating agents versus post-round

> mercury redistribution effects. I believe that some people feel

> better on round, others off-round. And by using a numeric scale,

> analyzing the trend of symptoms over time would be possible.

>

> There are many other considerations that could be addressed, of

> course; these are just a few ideas. I'd rather err on the side of

> requesting too much data, rather than wishing it was collected later

> on. But the spreadsheet should not be too complex that people don't

> want to use it, of course.

>

> There's no need to reinvent the wheel, so if DeanNetwork or someone

> else has already started collecting this type of data and has a data

> template, perhaps that would be a good place to start. I'm sure Andy

> has collected some of this type of data himself and will have opinions

> on what data should be collected if a new initiative is kicked-off.

>

> I'd be willing to help out with this effort, if needed. (My

> background is in stats/data analysis, so I have a natural interest in

> this type of endeavor.)

>

> Sorry if I rambled on a bit...

>

> Regards,

> Darren

>

>

>

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Thanks for your feedback Darren, it was much appreciated!

My wife re-did the spreadsheet and took on some of your suggestions,

namely having only one combined sheet, and a new column for number of

doses per 24h (people have all sorts of dosage timings but it can be

summed up by the number of doses).

She decided to leave out supplements and before/after notes. If more

people say they think it's useful, it could be incorporated, but

there's a lot of variability in how supplements are taken and she

wanted to keep things simple. Separating the symptoms into

before/after is the same issue because once someone goes through a few

dozen rounds, the particular pattern of symptoms for a round tend to

be from the same subset of symptoms over and over, so it's simpler

just to write a summary.

When we first started chelating, we used to write exhaustive notes on

our symptoms and supplements during and after rounds with a subjective

scale for things like stomach irritation. After doing 30 rounds, we

realized it wasn't worth the effort because our symptoms and

supplements didn't change much.

The new version of the spreadsheet is at:

http://onibasu.com/wiki/Chelationlog

Jay

>

> Wow, this is great, Jay. I think collecting this kind of data in a

> well thought out, standardized format could end up providing a

> valuable database to help quantify the benefits of chelation over

> time, the impact of certain chelators for different types of

> individuals, the impact of dosage, etc. (One of my biggest questions

> is how much person-to-person variation exists in the symptom-reduction

> trend over time. I suspect it's pretty high.)

>

> By completing entries in such a spreadsheet, it also helps the

> individual monitor his/her own progress and adjust as needed. I'm

> keeping a similar type of log myself since I started chelating

> (several months prior, actually).

>

> If this group is really committed to generating such a database to

> provide meaningful, useful, and interpretable results, it is essential

> that the database be designed up front to capture all important

> information, and in a format that is both user-friendly and

> computer-friendly (easy to aggregate/analyze).

>

> Here's some specific feedback on your spreadsheet, Jay.

> 1. I think you can get away with using only the Combined spreadsheet,

> which will accommodate everyone and simplify the file a bit

> 2. Include fields for " # hours between doses " for each chelator

> 3. Include fields for supplements being taken

> 4. Have two qualitative " Symptoms " fields -- " During round " and " Post

> round " -- for general descriptions

> 5. Have two quantitative " Symptoms " fields -- " During round " and " Post

> round " -- for a numeric rating (scale of 1-10, for example) of

symptoms.

> 6. Have one other free-form text field for " General/Other Comments "

>

> Breaking symptoms into " During round " and " Post round " is important to

> distinguish side effects due to chelating agents versus post-round

> mercury redistribution effects. I believe that some people feel

> better on round, others off-round. And by using a numeric scale,

> analyzing the trend of symptoms over time would be possible.

>

> There are many other considerations that could be addressed, of

> course; these are just a few ideas. I'd rather err on the side of

> requesting too much data, rather than wishing it was collected later

> on. But the spreadsheet should not be too complex that people don't

> want to use it, of course.

>

> There's no need to reinvent the wheel, so if DeanNetwork or someone

> else has already started collecting this type of data and has a data

> template, perhaps that would be a good place to start. I'm sure Andy

> has collected some of this type of data himself and will have opinions

> on what data should be collected if a new initiative is kicked-off.

>

> I'd be willing to help out with this effort, if needed. (My

> background is in stats/data analysis, so I have a natural interest in

> this type of endeavor.)

>

> Sorry if I rambled on a bit...

>

> Regards,

> Darren

>

>

>

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Thanks for your feedback Darren, it was much appreciated!

My wife re-did the spreadsheet and took on some of your suggestions,

namely having only one combined sheet, and a new column for number of

doses per 24h (people have all sorts of dosage timings but it can be

summed up by the number of doses).

She decided to leave out supplements and before/after notes. If more

people say they think it's useful, it could be incorporated, but

there's a lot of variability in how supplements are taken and she

wanted to keep things simple. Separating the symptoms into

before/after is the same issue because once someone goes through a few

dozen rounds, the particular pattern of symptoms for a round tend to

be from the same subset of symptoms over and over, so it's simpler

just to write a summary.

When we first started chelating, we used to write exhaustive notes on

our symptoms and supplements during and after rounds with a subjective

scale for things like stomach irritation. After doing 30 rounds, we

realized it wasn't worth the effort because our symptoms and

supplements didn't change much.

The new version of the spreadsheet is at:

http://onibasu.com/wiki/Chelationlog

Jay

>

> Wow, this is great, Jay. I think collecting this kind of data in a

> well thought out, standardized format could end up providing a

> valuable database to help quantify the benefits of chelation over

> time, the impact of certain chelators for different types of

> individuals, the impact of dosage, etc. (One of my biggest questions

> is how much person-to-person variation exists in the symptom-reduction

> trend over time. I suspect it's pretty high.)

>

> By completing entries in such a spreadsheet, it also helps the

> individual monitor his/her own progress and adjust as needed. I'm

> keeping a similar type of log myself since I started chelating

> (several months prior, actually).

>

> If this group is really committed to generating such a database to

> provide meaningful, useful, and interpretable results, it is essential

> that the database be designed up front to capture all important

> information, and in a format that is both user-friendly and

> computer-friendly (easy to aggregate/analyze).

>

> Here's some specific feedback on your spreadsheet, Jay.

> 1. I think you can get away with using only the Combined spreadsheet,

> which will accommodate everyone and simplify the file a bit

> 2. Include fields for " # hours between doses " for each chelator

> 3. Include fields for supplements being taken

> 4. Have two qualitative " Symptoms " fields -- " During round " and " Post

> round " -- for general descriptions

> 5. Have two quantitative " Symptoms " fields -- " During round " and " Post

> round " -- for a numeric rating (scale of 1-10, for example) of

symptoms.

> 6. Have one other free-form text field for " General/Other Comments "

>

> Breaking symptoms into " During round " and " Post round " is important to

> distinguish side effects due to chelating agents versus post-round

> mercury redistribution effects. I believe that some people feel

> better on round, others off-round. And by using a numeric scale,

> analyzing the trend of symptoms over time would be possible.

>

> There are many other considerations that could be addressed, of

> course; these are just a few ideas. I'd rather err on the side of

> requesting too much data, rather than wishing it was collected later

> on. But the spreadsheet should not be too complex that people don't

> want to use it, of course.

>

> There's no need to reinvent the wheel, so if DeanNetwork or someone

> else has already started collecting this type of data and has a data

> template, perhaps that would be a good place to start. I'm sure Andy

> has collected some of this type of data himself and will have opinions

> on what data should be collected if a new initiative is kicked-off.

>

> I'd be willing to help out with this effort, if needed. (My

> background is in stats/data analysis, so I have a natural interest in

> this type of endeavor.)

>

> Sorry if I rambled on a bit...

>

> Regards,

> Darren

>

>

>

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