crisis with yeshaya

[Guest guest]

Here I am giving words of wisdom on how not to overreact to teenage

tantrums and I seem to be unable to do it myself.

Yeshaya and I, and his Dad, have been arguing a lot recently, and he

has blamed it all on his Dad and me of course, he is blameless.

Last night (Sabbath, Friday night meal) he behaved abominably. I have

had my MIL for every meal over Sabbath bc her daughter, my SIL is

away. It hasn't been easy, MIL is very deaf and mealtimes with her

involve shouting at her to get her to hear, her shouting because she

can't hear her own voice, and then she interrupts all other

conversations because she can't hear them! Yeshaya is very intolerant

of her, and hates having meals with us alone, no other guests except

his grandmother, and so generally was really acting up. We tried

cajoling him into behaving but he just got worse, until of course we

ended up telling him off. After the meal he started on a new tack; he

wants to leave home and live on his own.

As you know his older brother Azariah has already done this, albeit

with our approval and blessing, and he was 21, not 16 when it

happened. But it hasn't been an amicable " separation " , more to give

us both space from each other. He is pretty much estranged from us,

and the only contact we have with him is hassle about money. I really

didn't want to start this whole thing again with Yeshaya, it all

seemed like a nightmare happening all over again, like

Groundhog Day, really.

Last night he slept across the road at Zevi's house, and today he ate

there for lunch, so we haven't seen him all day; he was out with his

friends all day long. I thought maybe he'd come back a bit better

tempered and willing to talk, but he was as surly as ever, and started

again about wanting to leave home. I'm ashamed to say I begged and

pleaded with him not to; it was all too much like what happened with

Azariah. He just didn't relent, so then I said that if he did leave

he could forget about taking his mobile phone with him and running up

massive bills on our account. This was the catalyst in a way tho I am

not sorry I said it. He just packed a few things and walked out then

and there. He didn't go to Zevi's; Zevi's Dad anyway said he

wouldn't be party to a fight between parents and son. I didn't know

where he went at first, and without his mobile I couldn't contact him.

I was hysterical. DH was much calmer and kept saying he'll be back

etc.. I spoke to my son in law Allan who suggested the idea that he

might be at Azariah's. This made the most sense; where else would he

likely go to get anti-parental sympathy, than to an estranged son?

Allan was right. My daughter Tammy (Allan's wife) phoned Yeshaya

there and gave him a right rolicking but he hung up on her. Azariah

(to his credit) did phone us and say don't panic, he's here, and he'll

be back when he's ready.

At least I know he's safe..physically. But he's in a place where any

parental antagonism will be fed, watered and nurtered, and tbh I am

very very frightened and upset.

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

Ruthies,

Sounds like your son knows how to push your buttons, to get a

reaction...pretty common teenage thing. I did it all the time. My parents

were very strict, very anti sex, smoking, drinking etc. So at 16 i used to

smoke, come in late or not at all, joke about haveing sex (I didnt even have

a boyfriend at 16!), and leave home all the time.

Me and mum spent two weeks communicating with bitchy letters once, and I

wrote everything I could to upset her...its terrible now looking back, but

its the way teenagers cope with their own problems and anxieties...punish the

parents!!

Dont fall for it, sound indiffrerent...he'll soon realise he cant afford to

leave home, and if he doesnt, then maybe you should let him go amicably,

rather than risk loosing him.

Mum to Rohan (4 mths)

[Guest guest]

Ruthies,

Sounds like your son knows how to push your buttons, to get a

reaction...pretty common teenage thing. I did it all the time. My parents

were very strict, very anti sex, smoking, drinking etc. So at 16 i used to

smoke, come in late or not at all, joke about haveing sex (I didnt even have

a boyfriend at 16!), and leave home all the time.

Me and mum spent two weeks communicating with bitchy letters once, and I

wrote everything I could to upset her...its terrible now looking back, but

its the way teenagers cope with their own problems and anxieties...punish the

parents!!

Dont fall for it, sound indiffrerent...he'll soon realise he cant afford to

leave home, and if he doesnt, then maybe you should let him go amicably,

rather than risk loosing him.

Mum to Rohan (4 mths)

[Guest guest]

Ruthie,

Only just read this and your following puzzled retort. Was going to

reply but was trying to read any other replies before doing so, so as not to

repeat anything. However, the reply that teenagers are out of the realms of

most of our experience did jump to mind.

Now if you want me to look upon my own experience as a teenager I

probably would side on the side of your son as I didn't get along with my

Mum and couldn't wait to leave either. She blackmailed me loads of times

with " go and live with your father " (they were divorced) but that was the

worse of 2 evils as he had remarried a witch! I managed to stay until the

2nd term of uni (uni at home BIG mistake) before moving into halls. I moved

back for holidays and stuff but when I wanted my ears pierced a second time

and she had said " not whilst living under my roof " I moved out again had

them done, came to visit and she didn't even notice! I ask you; how petty?

I am now 37yrs and only just getting to like my Mum now, it has been a

very hard time for me. I'm sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, but

I would say, let him go like the prodigal son, he'll come back when he is

ready and you should be there with open arms!

PS Glad to hear you found him and he is OK.

[Guest guest]

:

I hear what you say but I honestly don't think he dislikes either of

us; he's just flexing his muscles. He said he loves us both.

It was wrong of me to get hysterical when he got stroppy, but I just

couldn't help myself. We are never petty; we believe in keeping the

arguments for the big issues. Once a few months ago (or was it about

a year?) he wanted to change from the standard orthodox black velvet

skullcap to a black suede one. Skullcaps (known as kappels or

yarmulkes) are a religious statement according to whether they are

black velvet (most orthodox), black suede (middling) or coloured

knitted ones.(traditional) Also how big they are; his has got

progressively smaller and smaller! But we decided at the time that we

wouldn't make a stand about his kappels, even though they *were* a

statement of his standing in orthodoxy.

But on Thursday night we *did* make a stand, when he asked to go to a

mixed sex camp. That was in our opinion, beyond the borderline of our

faith and customs. Interestingly enough he took it very well, in fact

the only bit of the " stand " he objected to was when DH got a bit wishy

washy and his firmness wavered at the edges!

Ruthie

> Ruthie,

> Only just read this and your following puzzled retort. Was going

to

> reply but was trying to read any other replies before doing so, so

as not to

> repeat anything. However, the reply that teenagers are out of the

realms of

> most of our experience did jump to mind.

> Now if you want me to look upon my own experience as a teenager

I

> probably would side on the side of your son as I didn't get along

with my

> Mum and couldn't wait to leave either. She blackmailed me loads of

times

> with " go and live with your father " (they were divorced) but that

was the

> worse of 2 evils as he had remarried a witch! I managed to stay

until the

> 2nd term of uni (uni at home BIG mistake) before moving into halls.

I moved

> back for holidays and stuff but when I wanted my ears pierced a

second time

> and she had said " not whilst living under my roof " I moved out again

had

> them done, came to visit and she didn't even notice! I ask you; how

petty?

> I am now 37yrs and only just getting to like my Mum now, it has

been a

> very hard time for me. I'm sorry if this is not what you wanted to

hear, but

> I would say, let him go like the prodigal son, he'll come back when

he is

> ready and you should be there with open arms!

>

>

> PS Glad to hear you found him and he is OK.

[Guest guest]

Dont fall for it, sound indiffrerent...he'll soon realise he cant

afford to

> leave home, and if he doesnt, then maybe you should let him go

amicably,

> rather than risk loosing him.

>

>

> Mum to Rohan (4 mths)

My editor at Targum Press has two teenage boys, rather like Yeshaya,

not as religious as their parents, rebellious etc.. I just had this

very heartwarming email from her on the subject... here's a section of

it:

Quote:

We've spoken

to a lot of experts, both rabbinic and professional, and they all keep

advising us to be hugely patient, hugely loving, sparing on red line

behavior and, as one blunt psychologist told my husband, " Be his

father and

not his rabbi. " Everything I heard seems to say that unless the kid

really

damages himself (unfortunately, I know one or two who have, dropping

out of

school and picking up some seriously bad drug habits) they will come

back, after having examined the lure of the outside world and finding

it

wanting. But it aint easy.

Unquote.

I showed that email to DH and he found it *very* comforting and

inspiring. " Be his father, not his Rabbi. "

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

Dont fall for it, sound indiffrerent...he'll soon realise he cant

afford to

> leave home, and if he doesnt, then maybe you should let him go

amicably,

> rather than risk loosing him.

>

>

> Mum to Rohan (4 mths)

My editor at Targum Press has two teenage boys, rather like Yeshaya,

not as religious as their parents, rebellious etc.. I just had this

very heartwarming email from her on the subject... here's a section of

it:

Quote:

We've spoken

to a lot of experts, both rabbinic and professional, and they all keep

advising us to be hugely patient, hugely loving, sparing on red line

behavior and, as one blunt psychologist told my husband, " Be his

father and

not his rabbi. " Everything I heard seems to say that unless the kid

really

damages himself (unfortunately, I know one or two who have, dropping

out of

school and picking up some seriously bad drug habits) they will come

back, after having examined the lure of the outside world and finding

it

wanting. But it aint easy.

Unquote.

I showed that email to DH and he found it *very* comforting and

inspiring. " Be his father, not his Rabbi. "

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

>

>I showed that email to DH and he found it *very* comforting and

>inspiring. " Be his father, not his Rabbi. "

>

>Ruthie

A great thought, yes, I shall amend that and tuck it away for my own

use in years to come :-))))

I think the teenage years are where wider parental values are

particularly at issue compared with other points in parenting before

and after - and so I do wonder if this is a time when it is difficult

to provide mutual support anyway because the values differ. I think

it can be very challenging because it can be a time when you find out

things about yourself you might not like - and the business of what

other people think is a very important one - so often, the problem is

not fundamentally about the parents' true values (or at least the

relative importance of their child being happy or behaving in the way

that the parents would prefer) but their social group's values -

plain snobbery sometimes at bottom, but also because of the

difficulty of explaining, defending, whatever, to other people who

may not be backwards at coming forwards with their opinions. (Worst

of the lot very often being the grandparents and then the parents are

children and parents and piggy in the middle all at once!)

I can still remember my mother going ballistic about me merely asking

(in a letter) what their feelings were about me sharing a flat with

my boyfriend - she said I'd been planning (the word she used was

'plotting') it for months, which was untrue, withdrew various offers

of furniture (the old money as love thing) and the piece de la

resistance was " and I can just imagine what your Auntie Margaret will

say " (this being someone they saw only once or twice a year)... and

I'd only asked them how they felt, because I did want to know and

their answer was going to influence me. For a long time I was closer

to my boyfriend's parents who had religious beliefs which were in

opposition but were far more accepting (Yes, we did share the flat in

the end for months at a time (he was on a thin sandwich course), but

we hadn't intended to (it was more convenient for him to live nearer

work) - he set off for the accommodation his employer had arranged

and found it involved sharing a room with three others.) Of course,

the problem was sex - ie that it was harder to pretend it wasn't

happening.

A friend of mine who entertains me :-) with her worries about her two

grown up children, reminds me when the going gets tough that I

*should not* be a perfect parent as it would not be good for my

children, they need to see me making a hash of it sometimes.

Some people just are not very good at doing teenagers, some just

can't do it with certain children - and it doesn't mean there's a

lifetime rift (Lots of people can't cope with newborns for that

matter). I had a teacher who was fine with her sons, but awful with

her daughters. She quite often used to end up with other people's

teenagers who needed a break from home!

I think 's point about her husband is a good one - and teenagers

with mental health problems are going to be good practice (except

that there is no personal challenge, it does seem to make a

difference) I think my father (police) was always acutely aware of

the results of estrangement when it goes badly wrong, and also that

other people's children were doing much worse things than his own (He

did remark to me during a bad phase with my brother (probably pretty

minor really, but for our family, quite a big deal) that he didn't

remember these problems with me - and then paused and looked at me

and said " I think you may have taken more care that we didn't find

out the things you were doing that we didn't want you to " (dead

right, I was doing what I did because I wanted to and didn't want to

be stopped, not as a political statement or to annoy) - then again,

when I inadvertently revealed that my mother had told me sex wasn't

that great anyway (she didn't realise that I knew enough by then to

feel that she was either a) to be pitied or to be despised for

lying (I prefer to believe ), I think they learned to be a bit

careful about picking arguments with me :-))))))

--

jennifer@...

Vaudin