Guest guest Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Labs confirm normal cysteine and low sufates, confirming mostly blocked sulfation pathways. Molybedenum is recommended. Any advice or experience on these issues out there? Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 In frequent-dose-chelation alexseeold wrote: Labs confirm normal cysteine and low sulfates, confirming mostly blocked sulfation pathways. Molybedenum is recommended. Any advice or experience on these issues out there? -----------I have normal cysteine and low sulfate, but was never told I have blocked sulfation pathways. Anyway, I take 1,000 mcg of molybdenum picolinate, Thorne brand, every day. You should also be supplementing sulfate any way you can, by taking epsom salt baths,, using mag sulfate cream, and/or taking glucosamine sulfate (just never take it with calcium). Here's a really good post by Andy on this subject. It's a good one to print out and study. http://onibasu.com/archives/am/57707.html But now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)? My understanding is that they now do *serum* cysteine and sulfate, instead of *plasma* which they used to do and Andy preferred. I believe Andy says that the new test isn't accurate/relevant? I don't have a link handy to him posting about this, but maybe or somebody else does. But I still don't think there is any harm in supplementing molybdenum and sulfate to see if they help. Anyone else remember details about this?---------Jackie Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 In frequent-dose-chelation alexseeold wrote: Labs confirm normal cysteine and low sulfates, confirming mostly blocked sulfation pathways. Molybedenum is recommended. Any advice or experience on these issues out there? -----------I have normal cysteine and low sulfate, but was never told I have blocked sulfation pathways. Anyway, I take 1,000 mcg of molybdenum picolinate, Thorne brand, every day. You should also be supplementing sulfate any way you can, by taking epsom salt baths,, using mag sulfate cream, and/or taking glucosamine sulfate (just never take it with calcium). Here's a really good post by Andy on this subject. It's a good one to print out and study. http://onibasu.com/archives/am/57707.html But now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)? My understanding is that they now do *serum* cysteine and sulfate, instead of *plasma* which they used to do and Andy preferred. I believe Andy says that the new test isn't accurate/relevant? I don't have a link handy to him posting about this, but maybe or somebody else does. But I still don't think there is any harm in supplementing molybdenum and sulfate to see if they help. Anyone else remember details about this?---------Jackie Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Jackie, from the onibasu site: (In my case) " the pool of available sulfate is inadequate and dietary restriction of things requiring sulfation may be helpful. Thiol intake must be moderate, neither excessive nor low. Sulfate needs to go in as sulfate. " What foods require sulfation? Sulphur foods? And what foods have thiols? Thanks, Mark I guess mag and glucosamine sulfate can be taken? Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 In frequent-dose-chelation alexseeold wrote: Jackie, from the onibasu site: --------So others can find it: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/57707.html (In my case) -----so you are normal cysteine and low sulfate? " the pool of available sulfate is inadequate and dietary restriction of things requiring sulfation may be helpful. ---------So Andy is saying that you are low in sulfate, so restricting things that use sulfate will help to not deplete it more.---------Jackie Thiol intake must be moderate, neither excessive nor low. ----------This is referring to normal plasma cysteine levels. In this case, a moderate intake of sulfury foods is best. So sulfur food is related to cysteine levels, not sulfate levels. If you are high plasma cysteine, then you should exclude sulfur foods. If you are low plasma cysteine, then you will feel better if you eat alot of them (usually). When you are normal plasma cysteine, then eat a moderate amount.-------Jackie Sulfate needs to go in as sulfate. " ---------Sulfate and sulfury foods are different things. So if you are low plasma sulfate, you need more of it, but it needs to go in as sulfate, such as magnesium sulfate from epsom salt baths, mag sulfate cream, and in supplements such as glucosamine sulfate, and you can take epsom salts orally, if you can stand the taste, or put it in capsules. -----------Jackie What foods require sulfation? Sulphur foods? And what foods have thiols? ------------Foods high in salycilates and phenols require sulfation, and other things found in the Feingold diet. Andy mentions this on page 195 of AI. I got a list of them from too. Maybe if I get time, I will type them up sometime, and ask if we can put it in a file. It includes many artificial food colorings and flavors and preservatives, many fruits, aspirin, coffee, tea, wine, tomatoes, etc. Sulfur foods are not on this list, so they evidentally don't require sulfation. Andy talks about sulfur foods on pages 195-196 of AI. Sulfur foods have to do with cysteine levels, not sulfate levels. And sulfur foods *are* foods that contain thiols, so those terms are interchangeable, and Andy explains it on page 195. Wow, I think I finally got this well enough to explain it Hopefully this made some sense.-----------Jackie Thanks, Mark I guess mag and glucosamine sulfate can be taken? -----------Yes, magnesium is very important for most all of us toxic folks, and I don't believe it has anything to do with your plasma cysteine and sulfate levels. It just comes up because it is part of the magnesium sulfate in epsom salts. So epsom salt baths are good for two reasons, you get magnesium and sulfate. And yes when you are low sulfate, then taking glucosamine sulfate can help raise your sulfate levels too. Just remember to never take it with calcium supplements. Andy talks about this in AI, I don't have the page number right now.--------Jackie Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Jackie, I am cysteine 0.66 ref range for normal is 0.61 to 1.16, and sulphate is 2.7 ref range for normal is 3.0 to 5.9. What I want to know is exactly what sulfation does and why it is so important in comparison to the other three phase 2 actions: glutathione & glycine conjugation and glucuronidation? Mark > > Jackie, from the onibasu site: > > --------So others can find it: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/57707.html > > (In my case) -----so you are normal cysteine and low sulfate? > > " the pool of available sulfate is inadequate and > dietary restriction of things requiring sulfation may be helpful. > > ---------So Andy is saying that you are low in sulfate, so restricting things that use sulfate will help to not deplete it more.- --------Jackie > > > Thiol intake must be moderate, neither excessive nor low. > > ----------This is referring to normal plasma cysteine levels. In this case, a moderate intake of sulfury foods is best. So sulfur food is related to cysteine levels, not sulfate levels. If you are high plasma cysteine, then you should exclude sulfur foods. If you are low plasma cysteine, then you will feel better if you eat alot of them (usually). When you are normal plasma cysteine, then eat a moderate amount.-------Jackie > > > > Sulfate needs to go in as sulfate. " > > ---------Sulfate and sulfury foods are different things. So if you are low plasma sulfate, you need more of it, but it needs to go in as sulfate, such as magnesium sulfate from epsom salt baths, mag sulfate cream, and in supplements such as glucosamine sulfate, and you can take epsom salts orally, if you can stand the taste, or put it in capsules. -----------Jackie > > > > > > What foods require sulfation? Sulphur foods? And what foods have thiols? > > ------------Foods high in salycilates and phenols require sulfation, and other things found in the Feingold diet. Andy mentions this on page 195 of AI. I got a list of them from too. Maybe if I get time, I will type them up sometime, and ask if we can put it in a file. It includes many artificial food colorings and flavors and preservatives, many fruits, aspirin, coffee, tea, wine, tomatoes, etc. > > Sulfur foods are not on this list, so they evidentally don't require sulfation. Andy talks about sulfur foods on pages 195-196 of AI. Sulfur foods have to do with cysteine levels, not sulfate levels. And sulfur foods *are* foods that contain thiols, so those terms are interchangeable, and Andy explains it on page 195. > > Wow, I think I finally got this well enough to explain it Hopefully this made some sense.-----------Jackie > > > > > Thanks, Mark > > I guess mag and glucosamine sulfate can be taken? > > -----------Yes, magnesium is very important for most all of us toxic folks, and I don't believe it has anything to do with your plasma cysteine and sulfate levels. It just comes up because it is part of the magnesium sulfate in epsom salts. So epsom salt baths are good for two reasons, you get magnesium and sulfate. > > And yes when you are low sulfate, then taking glucosamine sulfate can help raise your sulfate levels too. Just remember to never take it with calcium supplements. Andy talks about this in AI, I don't have the page number right now.--------Jackie > > > > > Thanks, Mark > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Jackie, I am cysteine 0.66 ref range for normal is 0.61 to 1.16, and sulphate is 2.7 ref range for normal is 3.0 to 5.9. What I want to know is exactly what sulfation does and why it is so important in comparison to the other three phase 2 actions: glutathione & glycine conjugation and glucuronidation? Mark > > Jackie, from the onibasu site: > > --------So others can find it: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/57707.html > > (In my case) -----so you are normal cysteine and low sulfate? > > " the pool of available sulfate is inadequate and > dietary restriction of things requiring sulfation may be helpful. > > ---------So Andy is saying that you are low in sulfate, so restricting things that use sulfate will help to not deplete it more.- --------Jackie > > > Thiol intake must be moderate, neither excessive nor low. > > ----------This is referring to normal plasma cysteine levels. In this case, a moderate intake of sulfury foods is best. So sulfur food is related to cysteine levels, not sulfate levels. If you are high plasma cysteine, then you should exclude sulfur foods. If you are low plasma cysteine, then you will feel better if you eat alot of them (usually). When you are normal plasma cysteine, then eat a moderate amount.-------Jackie > > > > Sulfate needs to go in as sulfate. " > > ---------Sulfate and sulfury foods are different things. So if you are low plasma sulfate, you need more of it, but it needs to go in as sulfate, such as magnesium sulfate from epsom salt baths, mag sulfate cream, and in supplements such as glucosamine sulfate, and you can take epsom salts orally, if you can stand the taste, or put it in capsules. -----------Jackie > > > > > > What foods require sulfation? Sulphur foods? And what foods have thiols? > > ------------Foods high in salycilates and phenols require sulfation, and other things found in the Feingold diet. Andy mentions this on page 195 of AI. I got a list of them from too. Maybe if I get time, I will type them up sometime, and ask if we can put it in a file. It includes many artificial food colorings and flavors and preservatives, many fruits, aspirin, coffee, tea, wine, tomatoes, etc. > > Sulfur foods are not on this list, so they evidentally don't require sulfation. Andy talks about sulfur foods on pages 195-196 of AI. Sulfur foods have to do with cysteine levels, not sulfate levels. And sulfur foods *are* foods that contain thiols, so those terms are interchangeable, and Andy explains it on page 195. > > Wow, I think I finally got this well enough to explain it Hopefully this made some sense.-----------Jackie > > > > > Thanks, Mark > > I guess mag and glucosamine sulfate can be taken? > > -----------Yes, magnesium is very important for most all of us toxic folks, and I don't believe it has anything to do with your plasma cysteine and sulfate levels. It just comes up because it is part of the magnesium sulfate in epsom salts. So epsom salt baths are good for two reasons, you get magnesium and sulfate. > > And yes when you are low sulfate, then taking glucosamine sulfate can help raise your sulfate levels too. Just remember to never take it with calcium supplements. Andy talks about this in AI, I don't have the page number right now.--------Jackie > > > > > Thanks, Mark > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 In frequent-dose-chelation alexseeold wrote: Jackie, I am cysteine 0.66 ref range for normal is 0.61 to 1.16, and sulphate is 2.7 ref range for normal is 3.0 to 5.9. What I want to know is exactly what sulfation does and why it is so important in comparison to the other three phase 2 actions: glutathione & glycine conjugation and glucuronidation? -----------I am certainly not a liver pathway expert, so I suggest you do some more reading on this yourself, in AI pages 40-43 and 110-111, and also this link that is in the Links section of this group. http://www.tuberose.com/Liver_Detoxification.html The liver processes everything we take in, food and drugs, etc., and converts them into things/forms that can be excreted. Per Andy, page 40 of AI, " The liver converts all the millions of different poisonous things in the food we eat into a few chemicals the body likes. " So different foods/chemicals are processed by different liver pathways, sulfation being one of them. On page 110 of AI, Andy says, " The sulfate pathway in particular can be overloaded. Acetaminophen depletes sulfate, and the Feingold diet controls dietary materials requiring sulfation. " So sulfation processes certain foods and chemicals into forms that can be excreted, and if you are low in sulfate, then this process is slowed down and/or backed up, causing problems. I don't know that it is any more important than the other phase 2 pathways, just maybe that it occurs more frequently in mercury toxic people. And Andy has always talked alot about plasma cysteine and sulfate levels, so it either happens frequently, and/or is just one of the things that can have a great impact on how you feel. You can certainly have problems in other phase 2 pathways, and trying to correct them would be important also. See the chart on page 43 of AI for supplement suggestions, and again, read the section on Liver Metabolism on pages 110-111. I hope this helps.-----------Jackie Mark > > Jackie, from the onibasu site: > > --------So others can find it: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/57707.html > > (In my case) -----so you are normal cysteine and low sulfate? > > " the pool of available sulfate is inadequate and > dietary restriction of things requiring sulfation may be helpful. > > ---------So Andy is saying that you are low in sulfate, so restricting things that use sulfate will help to not deplete it more.- --------Jackie > > > Thiol intake must be moderate, neither excessive nor low. > > ----------This is referring to normal plasma cysteine levels. In this case, a moderate intake of sulfury foods is best. So sulfur food is related to cysteine levels, not sulfate levels. If you are high plasma cysteine, then you should exclude sulfur foods. If you are low plasma cysteine, then you will feel better if you eat alot of them (usually). When you are normal plasma cysteine, then eat a moderate amount.-------Jackie > > > > Sulfate needs to go in as sulfate. " > > ---------Sulfate and sulfury foods are different things. So if you are low plasma sulfate, you need more of it, but it needs to go in as sulfate, such as magnesium sulfate from epsom salt baths, mag sulfate cream, and in supplements such as glucosamine sulfate, and you can take epsom salts orally, if you can stand the taste, or put it in capsules. -----------Jackie > > > > > > What foods require sulfation? Sulphur foods? And what foods have thiols? > > ------------Foods high in salycilates and phenols require sulfation, and other things found in the Feingold diet. Andy mentions this on page 195 of AI. I got a list of them from too. Maybe if I get time, I will type them up sometime, and ask if we can put it in a file. It includes many artificial food colorings and flavors and preservatives, many fruits, aspirin, coffee, tea, wine, tomatoes, etc. > > Sulfur foods are not on this list, so they evidentally don't require sulfation. Andy talks about sulfur foods on pages 195-196 of AI. Sulfur foods have to do with cysteine levels, not sulfate levels. And sulfur foods *are* foods that contain thiols, so those terms are interchangeable, and Andy explains it on page 195. > > Wow, I think I finally got this well enough to explain it Hopefully this made some sense.-----------Jackie > > > > > Thanks, Mark > > I guess mag and glucosamine sulfate can be taken? > > -----------Yes, magnesium is very important for most all of us toxic folks, and I don't believe it has anything to do with your plasma cysteine and sulfate levels. It just comes up because it is part of the magnesium sulfate in epsom salts. So epsom salt baths are good for two reasons, you get magnesium and sulfate. > > And yes when you are low sulfate, then taking glucosamine sulfate can help raise your sulfate levels too. Just remember to never take it with calcium supplements. Andy talks about this in AI, I don't have the page number right now.--------Jackie > > > > > Thanks, Mark > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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