Guest guest Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 I use only IsoCort and I take about 11mg a day right now, or 4-1/2 IsoCorts. I have currently just started working off of them. I was at about 13 to 15 mg or about 5 to 6 pills a day for a while. Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 I use only IsoCort and I take about 11mg a day right now, or 4-1/2 IsoCorts. I have currently just started working off of them. I was at about 13 to 15 mg or about 5 to 6 pills a day for a while. Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 I use only IsoCort and I take about 11mg a day right now, or 4-1/2 IsoCorts. I have currently just started working off of them. I was at about 13 to 15 mg or about 5 to 6 pills a day for a while. Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 How quickly should one see a difference when starting? _____ From: lkwetter Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:41 AM To: NaturalThyroidHormones Subject: Re: dosage I use only IsoCort and I take about 11mg a day right now, or 4-1/2 IsoCorts. I have currently just started working off of them. I was at about 13 to 15 mg or about 5 to 6 pills a day for a while. Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 How quickly should one see a difference when starting? _____ From: lkwetter Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:41 AM To: NaturalThyroidHormones Subject: Re: dosage I use only IsoCort and I take about 11mg a day right now, or 4-1/2 IsoCorts. I have currently just started working off of them. I was at about 13 to 15 mg or about 5 to 6 pills a day for a while. Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 > How quickly should one see a difference when starting? __________________ Probably in about two weeks. Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be me. No, I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I still have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and backsliding along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me. Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's experience -- including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested were too high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is somewhat less than the originally-suggested doses. I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very vocal in insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy - who is not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made a point of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-effects. Andy really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and clearly has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects. Dean Dosage Hi All, I am new to the forum and have been seeing that most everyone is taking 12.5 mg dmsa. I thought Cutler recommends 50-100 mg. My doctor put me on 100 mg and I just completed my second round, having to stop early due to horrendous side effects. When I looked at the files I saw what Dean recommends. Who is Dean? Is he a doctor or has he recovered? I guess I'm just confused at the proper dosage. I didn't see in Cutler's book where it recommends 12.5, but perhaps I missed it as my brain is not as dependable as I'd like. I'm only 100 pounds, if that makes a difference as well. Thanks for any advice. - Carlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be me. No, I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I still have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and backsliding along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me. Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's experience -- including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested were too high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is somewhat less than the originally-suggested doses. I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very vocal in insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy - who is not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made a point of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-effects. Andy really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and clearly has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects. Dean Dosage Hi All, I am new to the forum and have been seeing that most everyone is taking 12.5 mg dmsa. I thought Cutler recommends 50-100 mg. My doctor put me on 100 mg and I just completed my second round, having to stop early due to horrendous side effects. When I looked at the files I saw what Dean recommends. Who is Dean? Is he a doctor or has he recovered? I guess I'm just confused at the proper dosage. I didn't see in Cutler's book where it recommends 12.5, but perhaps I missed it as my brain is not as dependable as I'd like. I'm only 100 pounds, if that makes a difference as well. Thanks for any advice. - Carlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 I have also been confused about these issues... what I dont fully understand is that is this 12.5 mg for everyone? or does it depend on weight? I weigh 140 pounds and I am unsure whether to start on 12.5mg per dose or do it by weight(at 1/2 mg per pound would be 70mg per dose?!) I am now more confused, can explain? many thanks jim > > Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be me. No, > I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I still > have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and backsliding > along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me. > > Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's experience -- > including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested were too > high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is somewhat less > than the originally-suggested doses. > > I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very vocal in > insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much > less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy - who is > not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge > contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made a point > of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of > metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-effects. Andy > really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and clearly > has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects. > > Dean > > > > > > > > Dosage > > > Hi All, > > I am new to the forum and have been seeing that most everyone is taking > 12.5 mg dmsa. I thought Cutler recommends 50-100 mg. My doctor put me > on 100 mg and I just completed my second round, having to stop early > due to horrendous side effects. > > When I looked at the files I saw what Dean recommends. Who is Dean? > Is he a doctor or has he recovered? I guess I'm just confused at the > proper dosage. I didn't see in Cutler's book where it recommends 12.5, > but perhaps I missed it as my brain is not as dependable as I'd like. > > I'm only 100 pounds, if that makes a difference as well. Thanks for > any advice. - Carlin > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Wow, I'm really confused now. I thought it was Andy who said to start with 12.5 mg, now I see 1/8-1/2 mg per pound is what Andy actually said. Which is it? Because even at 1/8 mg per pound that would mean that I would have to weigh only 100 lbs for the 12.5 mg dose. That's 60 lbs less than what I weigh and almost 1/2 the dose that Andy has recommended at 1/8 mg per pound. For me at 160 lbs that would be 20 mg instead of the 12.5 mg. Might this be why I didn't really feel much, if any, negative side effects? Should I be taking 20 mg (which I'd probably just bump up to the 25 mg so I don't have to mess with capsule splitting)? Andy, can you clear this up? I can see saying to try the dose you say " 1/8 mg per pound " and if it causes too much problems perhaps going down to the 12.5 mg or less. Though I can see the benefit with starting at an even lower dose as it would mean that those that are highly mercury toxic would feel less bad symptoms and perhaps stay on this protocol longer. Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your posts and see how much you want to help folks out here. Thanks, Mike > > Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be me. No, > I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I still > have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and backsliding > along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me. > > Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's experience -- > including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested were too > high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is somewhat less > than the originally-suggested doses. > > I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very vocal in > insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much > less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy - who is > not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge > contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made a point > of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of > metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side- effects. Andy > really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and clearly > has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects. > > Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Wow, I'm really confused now. I thought it was Andy who said to start with 12.5 mg, now I see 1/8-1/2 mg per pound is what Andy actually said. Which is it? Because even at 1/8 mg per pound that would mean that I would have to weigh only 100 lbs for the 12.5 mg dose. That's 60 lbs less than what I weigh and almost 1/2 the dose that Andy has recommended at 1/8 mg per pound. For me at 160 lbs that would be 20 mg instead of the 12.5 mg. Might this be why I didn't really feel much, if any, negative side effects? Should I be taking 20 mg (which I'd probably just bump up to the 25 mg so I don't have to mess with capsule splitting)? Andy, can you clear this up? I can see saying to try the dose you say " 1/8 mg per pound " and if it causes too much problems perhaps going down to the 12.5 mg or less. Though I can see the benefit with starting at an even lower dose as it would mean that those that are highly mercury toxic would feel less bad symptoms and perhaps stay on this protocol longer. Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your posts and see how much you want to help folks out here. Thanks, Mike > > Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be me. No, > I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I still > have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and backsliding > along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me. > > Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's experience -- > including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested were too > high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is somewhat less > than the originally-suggested doses. > > I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very vocal in > insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much > less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy - who is > not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge > contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made a point > of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of > metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side- effects. Andy > really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and clearly > has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects. > > Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 There is another Dean in the group - Dean 'Network' from South Africa. He is a physiotherapist has cured himself using Andy's protocol. He was the Dean who helped TK write up the general recommendations in the files sections. As dmo25 Dean says below, many people's experience taken together have led us to recommend starting at a dose of 12.5 mg. There are some people who even find that dose too high and have to lower the dose even further or look for some problems that have been overlooked. The other people who find 12.5 mg dose too small to start for them will quickly realize this and gradually increase. We emphasize increasing gradually because experience has taught us that when people increase too much too soon they can be hit with serious feeling side effects. If people start low and increase gradually they are more likely to understand the protocol and not scare themselves with side effects. I started at 25 mg DMSA (more than 1/8 mg/lb)(for 4 rounds) and scared myself so bad that I was afraid too try again and wasted a whole year thinking about it. I was too green at the time to understand that all I had to do was simply lower the dose. When I tried 18 mg side effects were reasonable, and at 12.5 mg there were no side effects at all. Some of the chelation experience has been with kids. Some kids are not able to tolerate 1/8 mg per pound at first and others can start much higher. From going through chelation group archives I would say that the people who say that they have tried Andy's protocol and have not done well with it are mostly people who were using unreasonably high doses. I want to make sure that people know that Andy's protocol really does work if we just understand how to use it. J > > Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be me. No, > I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I still > have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and backsliding > along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me. > > Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's experience -- > including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested were too > high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is somewhat less > than the originally-suggested doses. > > I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very vocal in > insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much > less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy - who is > not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge > contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made a point > of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of > metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-effects. Andy > really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and clearly > has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects. > > Dean > > > > > > > > Dosage > > > Hi All, > > I am new to the forum and have been seeing that most everyone is taking > 12.5 mg dmsa. I thought Cutler recommends 50-100 mg. My doctor put me > on 100 mg and I just completed my second round, having to stop early > due to horrendous side effects. > > When I looked at the files I saw what Dean recommends. Who is Dean? > Is he a doctor or has he recovered? I guess I'm just confused at the > proper dosage. I didn't see in Cutler's book where it recommends 12.5, > but perhaps I missed it as my brain is not as dependable as I'd like. > > I'm only 100 pounds, if that makes a difference as well. Thanks for > any advice. - Carlin > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 There is another Dean in the group - Dean 'Network' from South Africa. He is a physiotherapist has cured himself using Andy's protocol. He was the Dean who helped TK write up the general recommendations in the files sections. As dmo25 Dean says below, many people's experience taken together have led us to recommend starting at a dose of 12.5 mg. There are some people who even find that dose too high and have to lower the dose even further or look for some problems that have been overlooked. The other people who find 12.5 mg dose too small to start for them will quickly realize this and gradually increase. We emphasize increasing gradually because experience has taught us that when people increase too much too soon they can be hit with serious feeling side effects. If people start low and increase gradually they are more likely to understand the protocol and not scare themselves with side effects. I started at 25 mg DMSA (more than 1/8 mg/lb)(for 4 rounds) and scared myself so bad that I was afraid too try again and wasted a whole year thinking about it. I was too green at the time to understand that all I had to do was simply lower the dose. When I tried 18 mg side effects were reasonable, and at 12.5 mg there were no side effects at all. Some of the chelation experience has been with kids. Some kids are not able to tolerate 1/8 mg per pound at first and others can start much higher. From going through chelation group archives I would say that the people who say that they have tried Andy's protocol and have not done well with it are mostly people who were using unreasonably high doses. I want to make sure that people know that Andy's protocol really does work if we just understand how to use it. J > > Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be me. No, > I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I still > have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and backsliding > along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me. > > Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's experience -- > including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested were too > high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is somewhat less > than the originally-suggested doses. > > I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very vocal in > insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much > less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy - who is > not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge > contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made a point > of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of > metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-effects. Andy > really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and clearly > has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects. > > Dean > > > > > > > > Dosage > > > Hi All, > > I am new to the forum and have been seeing that most everyone is taking > 12.5 mg dmsa. I thought Cutler recommends 50-100 mg. My doctor put me > on 100 mg and I just completed my second round, having to stop early > due to horrendous side effects. > > When I looked at the files I saw what Dean recommends. Who is Dean? > Is he a doctor or has he recovered? I guess I'm just confused at the > proper dosage. I didn't see in Cutler's book where it recommends 12.5, > but perhaps I missed it as my brain is not as dependable as I'd like. > > I'm only 100 pounds, if that makes a difference as well. Thanks for > any advice. - Carlin > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Mike: I think you're looking too much outside yourself for detailed guidance about certain things that are very individual. The exact dose, for example, is different for everyone and is something that you and only you can determine. The important, " non-negotiable " things to keep in mind are the following: 1. First and foremost - you must take chelating agents frequently as Andy specifies -- every 3-4 hours for dmsa, 8 hours for dmps, etc. 2. At least 3 days on, then at least as many days off before starting again. I'm sure there's more, but these are the core essentials. As for the rest, Andy gives guidelines that are meant to be helpful but are not absolutes. I believe Andy agrees that you should start as low as you need to in order to be comfortable. This may be WAY below 1/8 mg per pound. I know of one experienced MD who starts patients at 1 mg dmsa and 1 mg ala. If I've misrepresented Andy's point of view, I'm sure he'll let me know. Dean Re: Dosage Wow, I'm really confused now. I thought it was Andy who said to start with 12.5 mg, now I see 1/8-1/2 mg per pound is what Andy actually said. Which is it? Because even at 1/8 mg per pound that would mean that I would have to weigh only 100 lbs for the 12.5 mg dose. That's 60 lbs less than what I weigh and almost 1/2 the dose that Andy has recommended at 1/8 mg per pound. For me at 160 lbs that would be 20 mg instead of the 12.5 mg. Might this be why I didn't really feel much, if any, negative side effects? Should I be taking 20 mg (which I'd probably just bump up to the 25 mg so I don't have to mess with capsule splitting)? Andy, can you clear this up? I can see saying to try the dose you say " 1/8 mg per pound " and if it causes too much problems perhaps going down to the 12.5 mg or less. Though I can see the benefit with starting at an even lower dose as it would mean that those that are highly mercury toxic would feel less bad symptoms and perhaps stay on this protocol longer. Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your posts and see how much you want to help folks out here. Thanks, Mike . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Mike: I think you're looking too much outside yourself for detailed guidance about certain things that are very individual. The exact dose, for example, is different for everyone and is something that you and only you can determine. The important, " non-negotiable " things to keep in mind are the following: 1. First and foremost - you must take chelating agents frequently as Andy specifies -- every 3-4 hours for dmsa, 8 hours for dmps, etc. 2. At least 3 days on, then at least as many days off before starting again. I'm sure there's more, but these are the core essentials. As for the rest, Andy gives guidelines that are meant to be helpful but are not absolutes. I believe Andy agrees that you should start as low as you need to in order to be comfortable. This may be WAY below 1/8 mg per pound. I know of one experienced MD who starts patients at 1 mg dmsa and 1 mg ala. If I've misrepresented Andy's point of view, I'm sure he'll let me know. Dean Re: Dosage Wow, I'm really confused now. I thought it was Andy who said to start with 12.5 mg, now I see 1/8-1/2 mg per pound is what Andy actually said. Which is it? Because even at 1/8 mg per pound that would mean that I would have to weigh only 100 lbs for the 12.5 mg dose. That's 60 lbs less than what I weigh and almost 1/2 the dose that Andy has recommended at 1/8 mg per pound. For me at 160 lbs that would be 20 mg instead of the 12.5 mg. Might this be why I didn't really feel much, if any, negative side effects? Should I be taking 20 mg (which I'd probably just bump up to the 25 mg so I don't have to mess with capsule splitting)? Andy, can you clear this up? I can see saying to try the dose you say " 1/8 mg per pound " and if it causes too much problems perhaps going down to the 12.5 mg or less. Though I can see the benefit with starting at an even lower dose as it would mean that those that are highly mercury toxic would feel less bad symptoms and perhaps stay on this protocol longer. Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your posts and see how much you want to help folks out here. Thanks, Mike . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 > > > I have also been confused about these issues... what I dont fully > understand is that is this 12.5 mg for everyone? We generally recommend everyone start at 12.5 mg to see how strong side effects are and chelate for a couple of rounds at that dose. Some people find even that dose is too high. > or does it depend on > weight? Andy does give a dose range of 1/8-1/2 mg per pound as a guideline. There are people who find that they have to start lower. I started at about 1/10 mg/lb. > I weigh 140 pounds and I am unsure whether to start on 12.5mg > per dose or do it by weight(at 1/2 mg per pound would be 70mg per > dose?!) I am now more confused, can explain? 1/8 mg per pound would be about 17.5 mg per dose. I would still suggest starting at 12.5 mg per dose. How strong the chelation side effects are will depend on how serious the person's condition is or how frail they are. There is absolutely no way to predict the condition of anyone who comes along on the internet, so we (TK, Dean, myself, possibly others, so far Andy hasn't disagreed) felt that it is best to error on the side of caution and start at a low dose. That way for the few people who still can not tolerate even 12.5 mg the side effects hopefully won't be so extreme that they are scared off completely. Just some examples, if a person has mercury in their motor neurons, and is already losing mobility, they will likely find that they need a dose much lower than 12.5 mg to start or they may risk losing more mobility. If a person starts to chelate but still has amalgam under a crown that a dentist reassured them wasn't there (that has happened a lot) they will most likely have unbearable symptoms until they discover the hidden amalgam and remove it. They are much safer at a lower dose. We can't write up a general recommendation and include all of the possible different scenarios so we have chosen what we feel is the most reasonable place to start. J > many thanks > jim > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 > > > I have also been confused about these issues... what I dont fully > understand is that is this 12.5 mg for everyone? We generally recommend everyone start at 12.5 mg to see how strong side effects are and chelate for a couple of rounds at that dose. Some people find even that dose is too high. > or does it depend on > weight? Andy does give a dose range of 1/8-1/2 mg per pound as a guideline. There are people who find that they have to start lower. I started at about 1/10 mg/lb. > I weigh 140 pounds and I am unsure whether to start on 12.5mg > per dose or do it by weight(at 1/2 mg per pound would be 70mg per > dose?!) I am now more confused, can explain? 1/8 mg per pound would be about 17.5 mg per dose. I would still suggest starting at 12.5 mg per dose. How strong the chelation side effects are will depend on how serious the person's condition is or how frail they are. There is absolutely no way to predict the condition of anyone who comes along on the internet, so we (TK, Dean, myself, possibly others, so far Andy hasn't disagreed) felt that it is best to error on the side of caution and start at a low dose. That way for the few people who still can not tolerate even 12.5 mg the side effects hopefully won't be so extreme that they are scared off completely. Just some examples, if a person has mercury in their motor neurons, and is already losing mobility, they will likely find that they need a dose much lower than 12.5 mg to start or they may risk losing more mobility. If a person starts to chelate but still has amalgam under a crown that a dentist reassured them wasn't there (that has happened a lot) they will most likely have unbearable symptoms until they discover the hidden amalgam and remove it. They are much safer at a lower dose. We can't write up a general recommendation and include all of the possible different scenarios so we have chosen what we feel is the most reasonable place to start. J > many thanks > jim > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 > > > > Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be > me. No, > > I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I > still > > have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and > backsliding > > along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me. > > > > Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's > experience -- > > including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested > were too > > high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is > somewhat less > > than the originally-suggested doses. > > > > I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very > vocal in > > insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often > much > > less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. > Andy - who is > > not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my > knowledge > > contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has > made a point > > of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of > > metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side- > effects. Andy > > really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and > clearly > > has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side > effects. > > > > Dean > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 > > > > Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be > me. No, > > I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I > still > > have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and > backsliding > > along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me. > > > > Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's > experience -- > > including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested > were too > > high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is > somewhat less > > than the originally-suggested doses. > > > > I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very > vocal in > > insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often > much > > less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. > Andy - who is > > not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my > knowledge > > contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has > made a point > > of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of > > metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side- > effects. Andy > > really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and > clearly > > has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side > effects. > > > > Dean > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Minor correction from the moderator - Dean Network is from South Africa () ****************************************************************** Just to avoid confusion - there are two Deans on this list - one from New Zealand (Dean Network), and me. NZ Dean is a renaissance man who is extremely knowledgeable about all sorts of things from dental materials to hormonal things. I'm the one who keeps shouting GO LOW AND SLOW! Dean in USA Re: Dosage > Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can > clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please > don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your > posts and see how much you want to help folks out here. > I'm not sure if Dean Network and TK are reading right now or if they are still on holidays. I have gone along with them all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Minor correction from the moderator - Dean Network is from South Africa () ****************************************************************** Just to avoid confusion - there are two Deans on this list - one from New Zealand (Dean Network), and me. NZ Dean is a renaissance man who is extremely knowledgeable about all sorts of things from dental materials to hormonal things. I'm the one who keeps shouting GO LOW AND SLOW! Dean in USA Re: Dosage > Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can > clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please > don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your > posts and see how much you want to help folks out here. > I'm not sure if Dean Network and TK are reading right now or if they are still on holidays. I have gone along with them all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Minor correction from the moderator - Dean Network is from South Africa () ****************************************************************** Just to avoid confusion - there are two Deans on this list - one from New Zealand (Dean Network), and me. NZ Dean is a renaissance man who is extremely knowledgeable about all sorts of things from dental materials to hormonal things. I'm the one who keeps shouting GO LOW AND SLOW! Dean in USA Re: Dosage > Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can > clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please > don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your > posts and see how much you want to help folks out here. > I'm not sure if Dean Network and TK are reading right now or if they are still on holidays. I have gone along with them all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 , you really explained this topic well for us with your post. Could this be added into files for reference? Joanne > > > > > > I have also been confused about these issues... what I dont fully > > understand is that is this 12.5 mg for everyone? > > > We generally recommend everyone start at 12.5 mg to see how strong > side effects are and chelate for a couple of rounds at that dose. > Some people find even that dose is too high. > > > > > or does it depend on > > weight? > > > > Andy does give a dose range of 1/8-1/2 mg per pound as a guideline. > There are people who find that they have to start lower. I started at > about 1/10 mg/lb. > > > > > > I weigh 140 pounds and I am unsure whether to start on 12.5mg > > per dose or do it by weight(at 1/2 mg per pound would be 70mg per > > dose?!) I am now more confused, can explain? > > > 1/8 mg per pound would be about 17.5 mg per dose. I would still > suggest starting at 12.5 mg per dose. > > How strong the chelation side effects are will depend on how serious > the person's condition is or how frail they are. There is absolutely > no way to predict the condition of anyone who comes along on the > internet, so we (TK, Dean, myself, possibly others, so far Andy hasn't > disagreed) felt that it is best to error on the side of caution and > start at a low dose. That way for the few people who still can not > tolerate even 12.5 mg the side effects hopefully won't be so extreme > that they are scared off completely. > > Just some examples, if a person has mercury in their motor neurons, > and is already losing mobility, they will likely find that they need a > dose much lower than 12.5 mg to start or they may risk losing more > mobility. If a person starts to chelate but still has amalgam under a > crown that a dentist reassured them wasn't there (that has happened a > lot) they will most likely have unbearable symptoms until they > discover the hidden amalgam and remove it. They are much safer at a > lower dose. We can't write up a general recommendation and include > all of the possible different scenarios so we have chosen what we feel > is the most reasonable place to start. > > J > > > > > many thanks > > jim > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 , you really explained this topic well for us with your post. Could this be added into files for reference? Joanne > > > > > > I have also been confused about these issues... what I dont fully > > understand is that is this 12.5 mg for everyone? > > > We generally recommend everyone start at 12.5 mg to see how strong > side effects are and chelate for a couple of rounds at that dose. > Some people find even that dose is too high. > > > > > or does it depend on > > weight? > > > > Andy does give a dose range of 1/8-1/2 mg per pound as a guideline. > There are people who find that they have to start lower. I started at > about 1/10 mg/lb. > > > > > > I weigh 140 pounds and I am unsure whether to start on 12.5mg > > per dose or do it by weight(at 1/2 mg per pound would be 70mg per > > dose?!) I am now more confused, can explain? > > > 1/8 mg per pound would be about 17.5 mg per dose. I would still > suggest starting at 12.5 mg per dose. > > How strong the chelation side effects are will depend on how serious > the person's condition is or how frail they are. There is absolutely > no way to predict the condition of anyone who comes along on the > internet, so we (TK, Dean, myself, possibly others, so far Andy hasn't > disagreed) felt that it is best to error on the side of caution and > start at a low dose. That way for the few people who still can not > tolerate even 12.5 mg the side effects hopefully won't be so extreme > that they are scared off completely. > > Just some examples, if a person has mercury in their motor neurons, > and is already losing mobility, they will likely find that they need a > dose much lower than 12.5 mg to start or they may risk losing more > mobility. If a person starts to chelate but still has amalgam under a > crown that a dentist reassured them wasn't there (that has happened a > lot) they will most likely have unbearable symptoms until they > discover the hidden amalgam and remove it. They are much safer at a > lower dose. We can't write up a general recommendation and include > all of the possible different scenarios so we have chosen what we feel > is the most reasonable place to start. > > J > > > > > many thanks > > jim > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 > I'm not sure if Dean Network and TK are reading right now or if they > are still on holidays. I have gone along with them all along. > J Hi and others, I'm back home in South Africa thanks (not New Zealand :-)), though I'm still missing a few posts here and there while I catch up. I can accept hair tests now for posting if anyone was wanting to send previously. I am cured from my symptoms, thanks primarily to Andy, good people on this form and others that have helped me. It took a few years and I'm now aiming for optimal health. I chelated for a year and a half to remove my symptoms. Despite my symptoms leaving, my last hair test shows higher mercury that the first (presumably because it is being properly excreted now) and so I intend chelating for some more despite no symptoms, and then following a once a month maintenance chelation round My hair test now shows normal mineral transport. I was moderately poisoned. I have residue of adrenal and especially thyroid problems post amalgam illness and chelation, that I'm now working on, but I do not need to take supplements to feel good or function. While on holiday I needed none. I did this all building up very slowing to only 50mg of DMSA and 33mg of ALA. The times when I increased beyond that I hurt myself. LOW and SLOW is definitely the way to GO. And don't GO anywhere until you have had a hair test, and more importantly checked your adrenal and thyroid (with blood tests and temperatures), or you might go backwards :-) Thanks, DeanNetwork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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