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I use only IsoCort and I take about 11mg a day right now, or 4-1/2

IsoCorts. I have currently just started working off of them. I was

at about 13 to 15 mg or about 5 to 6 pills a day for a while.

Tish

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I use only IsoCort and I take about 11mg a day right now, or 4-1/2

IsoCorts. I have currently just started working off of them. I was

at about 13 to 15 mg or about 5 to 6 pills a day for a while.

Tish

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I use only IsoCort and I take about 11mg a day right now, or 4-1/2

IsoCorts. I have currently just started working off of them. I was

at about 13 to 15 mg or about 5 to 6 pills a day for a while.

Tish

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How quickly should one see a difference when starting?

_____

From: lkwetter

Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:41 AM

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: dosage

I use only IsoCort and I take about 11mg a day right now, or 4-1/2

IsoCorts. I have currently just started working off of them. I was

at about 13 to 15 mg or about 5 to 6 pills a day for a while.

Tish

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How quickly should one see a difference when starting?

_____

From: lkwetter

Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:41 AM

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: dosage

I use only IsoCort and I take about 11mg a day right now, or 4-1/2

IsoCorts. I have currently just started working off of them. I was

at about 13 to 15 mg or about 5 to 6 pills a day for a while.

Tish

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  • 2 years later...

Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be me. No,

I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I still

have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and backsliding

along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me.

Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's experience --

including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested were too

high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is somewhat less

than the originally-suggested doses.

I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very vocal in

insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much

less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy - who is

not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge

contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made a point

of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of

metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-effects. Andy

really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and clearly

has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects.

Dean

Dosage

Hi All,

I am new to the forum and have been seeing that most everyone is taking

12.5 mg dmsa. I thought Cutler recommends 50-100 mg. My doctor put me

on 100 mg and I just completed my second round, having to stop early

due to horrendous side effects.

When I looked at the files I saw what Dean recommends. Who is Dean?

Is he a doctor or has he recovered? I guess I'm just confused at the

proper dosage. I didn't see in Cutler's book where it recommends 12.5,

but perhaps I missed it as my brain is not as dependable as I'd like.

I'm only 100 pounds, if that makes a difference as well. Thanks for

any advice. - Carlin

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Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be me. No,

I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I still

have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and backsliding

along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me.

Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's experience --

including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested were too

high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is somewhat less

than the originally-suggested doses.

I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very vocal in

insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much

less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy - who is

not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge

contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made a point

of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of

metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-effects. Andy

really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and clearly

has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects.

Dean

Dosage

Hi All,

I am new to the forum and have been seeing that most everyone is taking

12.5 mg dmsa. I thought Cutler recommends 50-100 mg. My doctor put me

on 100 mg and I just completed my second round, having to stop early

due to horrendous side effects.

When I looked at the files I saw what Dean recommends. Who is Dean?

Is he a doctor or has he recovered? I guess I'm just confused at the

proper dosage. I didn't see in Cutler's book where it recommends 12.5,

but perhaps I missed it as my brain is not as dependable as I'd like.

I'm only 100 pounds, if that makes a difference as well. Thanks for

any advice. - Carlin

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I have also been confused about these issues... what I dont fully

understand is that is this 12.5 mg for everyone? or does it depend on

weight? I weigh 140 pounds and I am unsure whether to start on 12.5mg

per dose or do it by weight(at 1/2 mg per pound would be 70mg per

dose?!) I am now more confused, can explain?

many thanks

jim

>

> Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be

me. No,

> I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I

still

> have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and

backsliding

> along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me.

>

> Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's

experience --

> including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested

were too

> high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is

somewhat less

> than the originally-suggested doses.

>

> I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very

vocal in

> insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much

> less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy

- who is

> not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge

> contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made

a point

> of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of

> metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing

side-effects. Andy

> really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and

clearly

> has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects.

>

> Dean

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Dosage

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> I am new to the forum and have been seeing that most everyone is

taking

> 12.5 mg dmsa. I thought Cutler recommends 50-100 mg. My doctor put me

> on 100 mg and I just completed my second round, having to stop early

> due to horrendous side effects.

>

> When I looked at the files I saw what Dean recommends. Who is Dean?

> Is he a doctor or has he recovered? I guess I'm just confused at the

> proper dosage. I didn't see in Cutler's book where it recommends 12.5,

> but perhaps I missed it as my brain is not as dependable as I'd like.

>

> I'm only 100 pounds, if that makes a difference as well. Thanks for

> any advice. - Carlin

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Wow, I'm really confused now. I thought it was Andy who said to

start with 12.5 mg, now I see 1/8-1/2 mg per pound is what Andy

actually said. Which is it? Because even at 1/8 mg per pound that

would mean that I would have to weigh only 100 lbs for the 12.5 mg

dose. That's 60 lbs less than what I weigh and almost 1/2 the dose

that Andy has recommended at 1/8 mg per pound. For me at 160 lbs

that would be 20 mg instead of the 12.5 mg.

Might this be why I didn't really feel much, if any, negative side

effects? Should I be taking 20 mg (which I'd probably just bump up

to the 25 mg so I don't have to mess with capsule splitting)?

Andy, can you clear this up? I can see saying to try the dose you

say " 1/8 mg per pound " and if it causes too much problems perhaps

going down to the 12.5 mg or less. Though I can see the benefit with

starting at an even lower dose as it would mean that those that are

highly mercury toxic would feel less bad symptoms and perhaps stay on

this protocol longer.

Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can

clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please

don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your

posts and see how much you want to help folks out here.

Thanks,

Mike

>

> Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be

me. No,

> I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I

still

> have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and

backsliding

> along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me.

>

> Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's

experience --

> including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested

were too

> high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is

somewhat less

> than the originally-suggested doses.

>

> I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very

vocal in

> insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often

much

> less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing.

Andy - who is

> not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my

knowledge

> contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has

made a point

> of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of

> metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-

effects. Andy

> really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and

clearly

> has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side

effects.

>

> Dean

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Wow, I'm really confused now. I thought it was Andy who said to

start with 12.5 mg, now I see 1/8-1/2 mg per pound is what Andy

actually said. Which is it? Because even at 1/8 mg per pound that

would mean that I would have to weigh only 100 lbs for the 12.5 mg

dose. That's 60 lbs less than what I weigh and almost 1/2 the dose

that Andy has recommended at 1/8 mg per pound. For me at 160 lbs

that would be 20 mg instead of the 12.5 mg.

Might this be why I didn't really feel much, if any, negative side

effects? Should I be taking 20 mg (which I'd probably just bump up

to the 25 mg so I don't have to mess with capsule splitting)?

Andy, can you clear this up? I can see saying to try the dose you

say " 1/8 mg per pound " and if it causes too much problems perhaps

going down to the 12.5 mg or less. Though I can see the benefit with

starting at an even lower dose as it would mean that those that are

highly mercury toxic would feel less bad symptoms and perhaps stay on

this protocol longer.

Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can

clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please

don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your

posts and see how much you want to help folks out here.

Thanks,

Mike

>

> Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be

me. No,

> I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I

still

> have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and

backsliding

> along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me.

>

> Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's

experience --

> including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested

were too

> high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is

somewhat less

> than the originally-suggested doses.

>

> I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very

vocal in

> insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often

much

> less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing.

Andy - who is

> not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my

knowledge

> contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has

made a point

> of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of

> metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-

effects. Andy

> really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and

clearly

> has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side

effects.

>

> Dean

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There is another Dean in the group - Dean 'Network' from South Africa.

He is a physiotherapist has cured himself using Andy's protocol. He

was the Dean who helped TK write up the general recommendations in the

files sections.

As dmo25 Dean says below, many people's experience taken together have

led us to recommend starting at a dose of 12.5 mg. There are some

people who even find that dose too high and have to lower the dose

even further or look for some problems that have been overlooked. The

other people who find 12.5 mg dose too small to start for them will

quickly realize this and gradually increase. We emphasize increasing

gradually because experience has taught us that when people increase

too much too soon they can be hit with serious feeling side effects.

If people start low and increase gradually they are more likely to

understand the protocol and not scare themselves with side effects.

I started at 25 mg DMSA (more than 1/8 mg/lb)(for 4 rounds) and scared

myself so bad that I was afraid too try again and wasted a whole year

thinking about it. I was too green at the time to understand that all

I had to do was simply lower the dose. When I tried 18 mg side

effects were reasonable, and at 12.5 mg there were no side effects at all.

Some of the chelation experience has been with kids. Some kids are

not able to tolerate 1/8 mg per pound at first and others can start

much higher.

From going through chelation group archives I would say that the

people who say that they have tried Andy's protocol and have not done

well with it are mostly people who were using unreasonably high doses.

I want to make sure that people know that Andy's protocol really does

work if we just understand how to use it.

J

>

> Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be

me. No,

> I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I

still

> have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and

backsliding

> along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me.

>

> Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's

experience --

> including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested

were too

> high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is

somewhat less

> than the originally-suggested doses.

>

> I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very

vocal in

> insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much

> less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy

- who is

> not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge

> contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made

a point

> of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of

> metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing

side-effects. Andy

> really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and

clearly

> has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects.

>

> Dean

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Dosage

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> I am new to the forum and have been seeing that most everyone is

taking

> 12.5 mg dmsa. I thought Cutler recommends 50-100 mg. My doctor put me

> on 100 mg and I just completed my second round, having to stop early

> due to horrendous side effects.

>

> When I looked at the files I saw what Dean recommends. Who is Dean?

> Is he a doctor or has he recovered? I guess I'm just confused at the

> proper dosage. I didn't see in Cutler's book where it recommends 12.5,

> but perhaps I missed it as my brain is not as dependable as I'd like.

>

> I'm only 100 pounds, if that makes a difference as well. Thanks for

> any advice. - Carlin

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

There is another Dean in the group - Dean 'Network' from South Africa.

He is a physiotherapist has cured himself using Andy's protocol. He

was the Dean who helped TK write up the general recommendations in the

files sections.

As dmo25 Dean says below, many people's experience taken together have

led us to recommend starting at a dose of 12.5 mg. There are some

people who even find that dose too high and have to lower the dose

even further or look for some problems that have been overlooked. The

other people who find 12.5 mg dose too small to start for them will

quickly realize this and gradually increase. We emphasize increasing

gradually because experience has taught us that when people increase

too much too soon they can be hit with serious feeling side effects.

If people start low and increase gradually they are more likely to

understand the protocol and not scare themselves with side effects.

I started at 25 mg DMSA (more than 1/8 mg/lb)(for 4 rounds) and scared

myself so bad that I was afraid too try again and wasted a whole year

thinking about it. I was too green at the time to understand that all

I had to do was simply lower the dose. When I tried 18 mg side

effects were reasonable, and at 12.5 mg there were no side effects at all.

Some of the chelation experience has been with kids. Some kids are

not able to tolerate 1/8 mg per pound at first and others can start

much higher.

From going through chelation group archives I would say that the

people who say that they have tried Andy's protocol and have not done

well with it are mostly people who were using unreasonably high doses.

I want to make sure that people know that Andy's protocol really does

work if we just understand how to use it.

J

>

> Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be

me. No,

> I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I

still

> have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and

backsliding

> along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me.

>

> Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's

experience --

> including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested

were too

> high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is

somewhat less

> than the originally-suggested doses.

>

> I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very

vocal in

> insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often much

> less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing. Andy

- who is

> not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my knowledge

> contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has made

a point

> of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of

> metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing

side-effects. Andy

> really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and

clearly

> has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side effects.

>

> Dean

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Dosage

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> I am new to the forum and have been seeing that most everyone is

taking

> 12.5 mg dmsa. I thought Cutler recommends 50-100 mg. My doctor put me

> on 100 mg and I just completed my second round, having to stop early

> due to horrendous side effects.

>

> When I looked at the files I saw what Dean recommends. Who is Dean?

> Is he a doctor or has he recovered? I guess I'm just confused at the

> proper dosage. I didn't see in Cutler's book where it recommends 12.5,

> but perhaps I missed it as my brain is not as dependable as I'd like.

>

> I'm only 100 pounds, if that makes a difference as well. Thanks for

> any advice. - Carlin

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Mike:

I think you're looking too much outside yourself for detailed guidance about

certain things that are very individual. The exact dose, for example, is

different for everyone and is something that you and only you can determine.

The important, " non-negotiable " things to keep in mind are the following:

1. First and foremost - you must take chelating agents frequently as Andy

specifies -- every 3-4 hours for dmsa, 8 hours for dmps, etc.

2. At least 3 days on, then at least as many days off before starting again.

I'm sure there's more, but these are the core essentials. As for the rest,

Andy gives guidelines that are meant to be helpful but are not absolutes. I

believe Andy agrees that you should start as low as you need to in order to

be comfortable. This may be WAY below 1/8 mg per pound. I know of one

experienced MD who starts patients at 1 mg dmsa and 1 mg ala.

If I've misrepresented Andy's point of view, I'm sure he'll let me know.

Dean

Re: Dosage

Wow, I'm really confused now. I thought it was Andy who said to

start with 12.5 mg, now I see 1/8-1/2 mg per pound is what Andy

actually said. Which is it? Because even at 1/8 mg per pound that

would mean that I would have to weigh only 100 lbs for the 12.5 mg

dose. That's 60 lbs less than what I weigh and almost 1/2 the dose

that Andy has recommended at 1/8 mg per pound. For me at 160 lbs

that would be 20 mg instead of the 12.5 mg.

Might this be why I didn't really feel much, if any, negative side

effects? Should I be taking 20 mg (which I'd probably just bump up

to the 25 mg so I don't have to mess with capsule splitting)?

Andy, can you clear this up? I can see saying to try the dose you

say " 1/8 mg per pound " and if it causes too much problems perhaps

going down to the 12.5 mg or less. Though I can see the benefit with

starting at an even lower dose as it would mean that those that are

highly mercury toxic would feel less bad symptoms and perhaps stay on

this protocol longer.

Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can

clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please

don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your

posts and see how much you want to help folks out here.

Thanks,

Mike

.

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Share on other sites

Mike:

I think you're looking too much outside yourself for detailed guidance about

certain things that are very individual. The exact dose, for example, is

different for everyone and is something that you and only you can determine.

The important, " non-negotiable " things to keep in mind are the following:

1. First and foremost - you must take chelating agents frequently as Andy

specifies -- every 3-4 hours for dmsa, 8 hours for dmps, etc.

2. At least 3 days on, then at least as many days off before starting again.

I'm sure there's more, but these are the core essentials. As for the rest,

Andy gives guidelines that are meant to be helpful but are not absolutes. I

believe Andy agrees that you should start as low as you need to in order to

be comfortable. This may be WAY below 1/8 mg per pound. I know of one

experienced MD who starts patients at 1 mg dmsa and 1 mg ala.

If I've misrepresented Andy's point of view, I'm sure he'll let me know.

Dean

Re: Dosage

Wow, I'm really confused now. I thought it was Andy who said to

start with 12.5 mg, now I see 1/8-1/2 mg per pound is what Andy

actually said. Which is it? Because even at 1/8 mg per pound that

would mean that I would have to weigh only 100 lbs for the 12.5 mg

dose. That's 60 lbs less than what I weigh and almost 1/2 the dose

that Andy has recommended at 1/8 mg per pound. For me at 160 lbs

that would be 20 mg instead of the 12.5 mg.

Might this be why I didn't really feel much, if any, negative side

effects? Should I be taking 20 mg (which I'd probably just bump up

to the 25 mg so I don't have to mess with capsule splitting)?

Andy, can you clear this up? I can see saying to try the dose you

say " 1/8 mg per pound " and if it causes too much problems perhaps

going down to the 12.5 mg or less. Though I can see the benefit with

starting at an even lower dose as it would mean that those that are

highly mercury toxic would feel less bad symptoms and perhaps stay on

this protocol longer.

Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can

clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please

don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your

posts and see how much you want to help folks out here.

Thanks,

Mike

.

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Share on other sites

>

>

> I have also been confused about these issues... what I dont fully

> understand is that is this 12.5 mg for everyone?

We generally recommend everyone start at 12.5 mg to see how strong

side effects are and chelate for a couple of rounds at that dose.

Some people find even that dose is too high.

> or does it depend on

> weight?

Andy does give a dose range of 1/8-1/2 mg per pound as a guideline.

There are people who find that they have to start lower. I started at

about 1/10 mg/lb.

> I weigh 140 pounds and I am unsure whether to start on 12.5mg

> per dose or do it by weight(at 1/2 mg per pound would be 70mg per

> dose?!) I am now more confused, can explain?

1/8 mg per pound would be about 17.5 mg per dose. I would still

suggest starting at 12.5 mg per dose.

How strong the chelation side effects are will depend on how serious

the person's condition is or how frail they are. There is absolutely

no way to predict the condition of anyone who comes along on the

internet, so we (TK, Dean, myself, possibly others, so far Andy hasn't

disagreed) felt that it is best to error on the side of caution and

start at a low dose. That way for the few people who still can not

tolerate even 12.5 mg the side effects hopefully won't be so extreme

that they are scared off completely.

Just some examples, if a person has mercury in their motor neurons,

and is already losing mobility, they will likely find that they need a

dose much lower than 12.5 mg to start or they may risk losing more

mobility. If a person starts to chelate but still has amalgam under a

crown that a dentist reassured them wasn't there (that has happened a

lot) they will most likely have unbearable symptoms until they

discover the hidden amalgam and remove it. They are much safer at a

lower dose. We can't write up a general recommendation and include

all of the possible different scenarios so we have chosen what we feel

is the most reasonable place to start.

J

> many thanks

> jim

>

>

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>

>

> I have also been confused about these issues... what I dont fully

> understand is that is this 12.5 mg for everyone?

We generally recommend everyone start at 12.5 mg to see how strong

side effects are and chelate for a couple of rounds at that dose.

Some people find even that dose is too high.

> or does it depend on

> weight?

Andy does give a dose range of 1/8-1/2 mg per pound as a guideline.

There are people who find that they have to start lower. I started at

about 1/10 mg/lb.

> I weigh 140 pounds and I am unsure whether to start on 12.5mg

> per dose or do it by weight(at 1/2 mg per pound would be 70mg per

> dose?!) I am now more confused, can explain?

1/8 mg per pound would be about 17.5 mg per dose. I would still

suggest starting at 12.5 mg per dose.

How strong the chelation side effects are will depend on how serious

the person's condition is or how frail they are. There is absolutely

no way to predict the condition of anyone who comes along on the

internet, so we (TK, Dean, myself, possibly others, so far Andy hasn't

disagreed) felt that it is best to error on the side of caution and

start at a low dose. That way for the few people who still can not

tolerate even 12.5 mg the side effects hopefully won't be so extreme

that they are scared off completely.

Just some examples, if a person has mercury in their motor neurons,

and is already losing mobility, they will likely find that they need a

dose much lower than 12.5 mg to start or they may risk losing more

mobility. If a person starts to chelate but still has amalgam under a

crown that a dentist reassured them wasn't there (that has happened a

lot) they will most likely have unbearable symptoms until they

discover the hidden amalgam and remove it. They are much safer at a

lower dose. We can't write up a general recommendation and include

all of the possible different scenarios so we have chosen what we feel

is the most reasonable place to start.

J

> many thanks

> jim

>

>

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> >

> > Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be

> me. No,

> > I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I

> still

> > have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and

> backsliding

> > along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me.

> >

> > Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's

> experience --

> > including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested

> were too

> > high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is

> somewhat less

> > than the originally-suggested doses.

> >

> > I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very

> vocal in

> > insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often

> much

> > less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing.

> Andy - who is

> > not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my

> knowledge

> > contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has

> made a point

> > of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of

> > metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-

> effects. Andy

> > really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and

> clearly

> > has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side

> effects.

> >

> > Dean

>

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> >

> > Yeah, who the he$$ is this Dean anyway? Why, I guess that would be

> me. No,

> > I'm not a doctor, just someone who's done well so far chelating. I

> still

> > have a long way to go, and there has been some frustration and

> backsliding

> > along the way, but overall it's been a very good thing for me.

> >

> > Andy's book was published in 1999. Since then, many people's

> experience --

> > including mine -- indicates that the original doses Andy suggested

> were too

> > high. Andy himself now says 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound, which is

> somewhat less

> > than the originally-suggested doses.

> >

> > I think you have to read between the lines here. TK has been very

> vocal in

> > insisting that people start at no more than 12.5 mg dmsa, and often

> much

> > less. I too have been pretty vocal in saying the same thing.

> Andy - who is

> > not shy about telling people they're wrong - has never to my

> knowledge

> > contradicted TK (or me) on this point. To the contrary, he has

> made a point

> > of saying that if you double the dose you only gain about 20% of

> > metal-removing efficiency, while horrendously increasing side-

> effects. Andy

> > really cares about the schedule - DMSA every 3-4 hours, etc. - and

> clearly

> > has nothing against starting at very low doses to minimize side

> effects.

> >

> > Dean

>

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Minor correction from the moderator - Dean Network is from South Africa ()

******************************************************************

Just to avoid confusion - there are two Deans on this list - one from New

Zealand (Dean Network), and me.

NZ Dean is a renaissance man who is extremely knowledgeable about all sorts

of things from dental materials to hormonal things. I'm the one who keeps

shouting GO LOW AND SLOW!

Dean in USA

Re: Dosage

> Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can

> clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please

> don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your

> posts and see how much you want to help folks out here.

>

I'm not sure if Dean Network and TK are reading right now or if they

are still on holidays. I have gone along with them all along.

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Minor correction from the moderator - Dean Network is from South Africa ()

******************************************************************

Just to avoid confusion - there are two Deans on this list - one from New

Zealand (Dean Network), and me.

NZ Dean is a renaissance man who is extremely knowledgeable about all sorts

of things from dental materials to hormonal things. I'm the one who keeps

shouting GO LOW AND SLOW!

Dean in USA

Re: Dosage

> Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can

> clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please

> don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your

> posts and see how much you want to help folks out here.

>

I'm not sure if Dean Network and TK are reading right now or if they

are still on holidays. I have gone along with them all along.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Minor correction from the moderator - Dean Network is from South Africa ()

******************************************************************

Just to avoid confusion - there are two Deans on this list - one from New

Zealand (Dean Network), and me.

NZ Dean is a renaissance man who is extremely knowledgeable about all sorts

of things from dental materials to hormonal things. I'm the one who keeps

shouting GO LOW AND SLOW!

Dean in USA

Re: Dosage

> Dean and TK, I'm not trying to go against what you've said as I can

> clearly see the benefit of starting at a lower dose for some. Please

> don't take this post the wrong way. I really enjoy reading your

> posts and see how much you want to help folks out here.

>

I'm not sure if Dean Network and TK are reading right now or if they

are still on holidays. I have gone along with them all along.

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Share on other sites

, you really explained this topic well for us with your post.

Could this be added into files for reference?

Joanne

> >

> >

> > I have also been confused about these issues... what I dont fully

> > understand is that is this 12.5 mg for everyone?

>

>

> We generally recommend everyone start at 12.5 mg to see how strong

> side effects are and chelate for a couple of rounds at that dose.

> Some people find even that dose is too high.

>

>

>

> > or does it depend on

> > weight?

>

>

>

> Andy does give a dose range of 1/8-1/2 mg per pound as a guideline.

> There are people who find that they have to start lower. I

started at

> about 1/10 mg/lb.

>

>

>

>

> > I weigh 140 pounds and I am unsure whether to start on 12.5mg

> > per dose or do it by weight(at 1/2 mg per pound would be 70mg per

> > dose?!) I am now more confused, can explain?

>

>

> 1/8 mg per pound would be about 17.5 mg per dose. I would still

> suggest starting at 12.5 mg per dose.

>

> How strong the chelation side effects are will depend on how

serious

> the person's condition is or how frail they are. There is

absolutely

> no way to predict the condition of anyone who comes along on the

> internet, so we (TK, Dean, myself, possibly others, so far Andy

hasn't

> disagreed) felt that it is best to error on the side of caution and

> start at a low dose. That way for the few people who still can not

> tolerate even 12.5 mg the side effects hopefully won't be so

extreme

> that they are scared off completely.

>

> Just some examples, if a person has mercury in their motor neurons,

> and is already losing mobility, they will likely find that they

need a

> dose much lower than 12.5 mg to start or they may risk losing more

> mobility. If a person starts to chelate but still has amalgam

under a

> crown that a dentist reassured them wasn't there (that has

happened a

> lot) they will most likely have unbearable symptoms until they

> discover the hidden amalgam and remove it. They are much safer at

a

> lower dose. We can't write up a general recommendation and include

> all of the possible different scenarios so we have chosen what we

feel

> is the most reasonable place to start.

>

> J

>

>

>

> > many thanks

> > jim

> >

> >

>

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, you really explained this topic well for us with your post.

Could this be added into files for reference?

Joanne

> >

> >

> > I have also been confused about these issues... what I dont fully

> > understand is that is this 12.5 mg for everyone?

>

>

> We generally recommend everyone start at 12.5 mg to see how strong

> side effects are and chelate for a couple of rounds at that dose.

> Some people find even that dose is too high.

>

>

>

> > or does it depend on

> > weight?

>

>

>

> Andy does give a dose range of 1/8-1/2 mg per pound as a guideline.

> There are people who find that they have to start lower. I

started at

> about 1/10 mg/lb.

>

>

>

>

> > I weigh 140 pounds and I am unsure whether to start on 12.5mg

> > per dose or do it by weight(at 1/2 mg per pound would be 70mg per

> > dose?!) I am now more confused, can explain?

>

>

> 1/8 mg per pound would be about 17.5 mg per dose. I would still

> suggest starting at 12.5 mg per dose.

>

> How strong the chelation side effects are will depend on how

serious

> the person's condition is or how frail they are. There is

absolutely

> no way to predict the condition of anyone who comes along on the

> internet, so we (TK, Dean, myself, possibly others, so far Andy

hasn't

> disagreed) felt that it is best to error on the side of caution and

> start at a low dose. That way for the few people who still can not

> tolerate even 12.5 mg the side effects hopefully won't be so

extreme

> that they are scared off completely.

>

> Just some examples, if a person has mercury in their motor neurons,

> and is already losing mobility, they will likely find that they

need a

> dose much lower than 12.5 mg to start or they may risk losing more

> mobility. If a person starts to chelate but still has amalgam

under a

> crown that a dentist reassured them wasn't there (that has

happened a

> lot) they will most likely have unbearable symptoms until they

> discover the hidden amalgam and remove it. They are much safer at

a

> lower dose. We can't write up a general recommendation and include

> all of the possible different scenarios so we have chosen what we

feel

> is the most reasonable place to start.

>

> J

>

>

>

> > many thanks

> > jim

> >

> >

>

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> I'm not sure if Dean Network and TK are reading right now or if they

> are still on holidays. I have gone along with them all along.

> J

Hi and others,

I'm back home in South Africa thanks (not New Zealand :-)), though I'm still

missing a few posts here and there while I catch up.

I can accept hair tests now for posting if anyone was wanting to send

previously.

I am cured from my symptoms, thanks primarily to Andy, good people on this

form and others that have helped me. It took a few years and I'm now aiming

for optimal health. I chelated for a year and a half to remove my symptoms.

Despite my symptoms leaving, my last hair test shows higher mercury that the

first (presumably because it is being properly excreted now) and so I intend

chelating for some more despite no symptoms, and then following a once a

month maintenance chelation round My hair test now shows normal mineral

transport. I was moderately poisoned.

I have residue of adrenal and especially thyroid problems post amalgam

illness and chelation, that I'm now working on, but I do not need to take

supplements to feel good or function. While on holiday I needed none.

I did this all building up very slowing to only 50mg of DMSA and 33mg of

ALA. The times when I increased beyond that I hurt myself.

LOW and SLOW is definitely the way to GO.

And don't GO anywhere until you have had a hair test, and more importantly

checked your adrenal and thyroid (with blood tests and temperatures), or you

might go backwards :-)

Thanks,

DeanNetwork

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