Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 In frequent-dose-chelation Donna wrote: Sunshine, reading this was so uplifting. What a WONderful improvement for you! It's this kind of stuff that makes me want to chelate, and the negative stuff keeps me afraid. It's all so complex and I can't seem to get my brain around all the complicated details of what to do before, during and after chelation with adrenals and everything else. *sigh* Meanwhile, I'm SO happy for you! : Donna ------------------------------------ Donna, Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and just do it! I know it's scary, but I truly believe it is the only thing that will eventually get me well. I was nervous about starting this on my own, but then once I tried it and found I felt better on rounds of chelation, then I looked forward to my next round. Not everyone gets adrenal and thyroid support before they start, so you could always try a round at a very low dose and see how you do. Then you'll know, and if you feel better on round or get some improvements from chelation, this might allow you to figure out if you need adrenal and thyroid support or not, meaning your head might be clearer to grasp it. I think as long as you are at least on some of the basic recommended supplements, you could give chelation a try. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Jackie, thank you SO much for this encouragement. (You sound like Nike! lol) I really appreciate it! The thing here is that, over the 20 years I've been dealing directly with all this (I've been ill from it for about 40, obvious for 30), I have willing tried so many different treatments and the results has either been VERY harmful or detrimental, or no results, and ALL of it pushed into deep debt. I can't afford to lose any more of my health due to poor protocol or treatment, and for sure, my pocketbook can't handle anymore of this " gambling " , which is exactly what all of this has been over the years: gambling with the hopes of hitting the health improvement jackpot. I still haven't purchased Andy's book! And I already take glyconutrients (which I can't afford) that I will never give up (I've suffered when I do) and to add more supplements will really hurt financially, especially since I never felt any difference with ANY supplements I spent $thousands on over the years. There are so many different suggestions by different people as to what helps with what issue, and unless you actually KNOW all your issues, you don't even know what to focus on. The technical aspect is over my head, and I don't understand most of the acronyms thrown all over the place, and I am SO sick of this constant reading and thinking about it for so many years. Making the decisions on what to try and how, plus the stress and inability to make those decisions as best I can is extremely difficult. Just getting the damn capsules in low doses is a hassle 'cause I don't know if I can get one of my doctors to prescribe it, which it seems that's the only way to get low dose without having to deal with splitting capsules (a nightmare, imo). From everything I've been reading on here since Feb., everyone has a different way of doing things as far as dosing and everything else. Trying to determine what protocol I should try is very overwhelming. Of course, I will soon sit down and try to somehow make sense of the zillions of notes and posts so I can start on SOMEthing in SOME way. Right now I'm leaning toward finishing the few bottles of NCD I have, but I'm afraid of that too. There are pros and cons with EVERYthing I've read in all aspects of health. If I can get the DMSA in low doses to start, I will probably try it though. I just don't know, but I DO like hearing positive stuff happening, like with you : Donna >Donna, >Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and just do it! I know it's scary, but I truly >believe it is the only thing that will eventually get me well. I was nervous about starting this >on my own, but then once I tried it and found I felt better on rounds of chelation, then I >looked forward to my next round. Not everyone gets adrenal and thyroid support before >they start, so you could always try a round at a very low dose and see how you do. Then >you'll know, and if you feel better on round or get some improvements from chelation, this >might allow you to figure out if you need adrenal and thyroid support or not, meaning your >head might be clearer to grasp it. I think as long as you are at least on some of the basic >recommended supplements, you could give chelation a try. >Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Jackie, thank you SO much for this encouragement. (You sound like Nike! lol) I really appreciate it! The thing here is that, over the 20 years I've been dealing directly with all this (I've been ill from it for about 40, obvious for 30), I have willing tried so many different treatments and the results has either been VERY harmful or detrimental, or no results, and ALL of it pushed into deep debt. I can't afford to lose any more of my health due to poor protocol or treatment, and for sure, my pocketbook can't handle anymore of this " gambling " , which is exactly what all of this has been over the years: gambling with the hopes of hitting the health improvement jackpot. I still haven't purchased Andy's book! And I already take glyconutrients (which I can't afford) that I will never give up (I've suffered when I do) and to add more supplements will really hurt financially, especially since I never felt any difference with ANY supplements I spent $thousands on over the years. There are so many different suggestions by different people as to what helps with what issue, and unless you actually KNOW all your issues, you don't even know what to focus on. The technical aspect is over my head, and I don't understand most of the acronyms thrown all over the place, and I am SO sick of this constant reading and thinking about it for so many years. Making the decisions on what to try and how, plus the stress and inability to make those decisions as best I can is extremely difficult. Just getting the damn capsules in low doses is a hassle 'cause I don't know if I can get one of my doctors to prescribe it, which it seems that's the only way to get low dose without having to deal with splitting capsules (a nightmare, imo). From everything I've been reading on here since Feb., everyone has a different way of doing things as far as dosing and everything else. Trying to determine what protocol I should try is very overwhelming. Of course, I will soon sit down and try to somehow make sense of the zillions of notes and posts so I can start on SOMEthing in SOME way. Right now I'm leaning toward finishing the few bottles of NCD I have, but I'm afraid of that too. There are pros and cons with EVERYthing I've read in all aspects of health. If I can get the DMSA in low doses to start, I will probably try it though. I just don't know, but I DO like hearing positive stuff happening, like with you : Donna >Donna, >Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and just do it! I know it's scary, but I truly >believe it is the only thing that will eventually get me well. I was nervous about starting this >on my own, but then once I tried it and found I felt better on rounds of chelation, then I >looked forward to my next round. Not everyone gets adrenal and thyroid support before >they start, so you could always try a round at a very low dose and see how you do. Then >you'll know, and if you feel better on round or get some improvements from chelation, this >might allow you to figure out if you need adrenal and thyroid support or not, meaning your >head might be clearer to grasp it. I think as long as you are at least on some of the basic >recommended supplements, you could give chelation a try. >Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Jackie, thank you SO much for this encouragement. (You sound like Nike! lol) I really appreciate it! The thing here is that, over the 20 years I've been dealing directly with all this (I've been ill from it for about 40, obvious for 30), I have willing tried so many different treatments and the results has either been VERY harmful or detrimental, or no results, and ALL of it pushed into deep debt. I can't afford to lose any more of my health due to poor protocol or treatment, and for sure, my pocketbook can't handle anymore of this " gambling " , which is exactly what all of this has been over the years: gambling with the hopes of hitting the health improvement jackpot. I still haven't purchased Andy's book! And I already take glyconutrients (which I can't afford) that I will never give up (I've suffered when I do) and to add more supplements will really hurt financially, especially since I never felt any difference with ANY supplements I spent $thousands on over the years. There are so many different suggestions by different people as to what helps with what issue, and unless you actually KNOW all your issues, you don't even know what to focus on. The technical aspect is over my head, and I don't understand most of the acronyms thrown all over the place, and I am SO sick of this constant reading and thinking about it for so many years. Making the decisions on what to try and how, plus the stress and inability to make those decisions as best I can is extremely difficult. Just getting the damn capsules in low doses is a hassle 'cause I don't know if I can get one of my doctors to prescribe it, which it seems that's the only way to get low dose without having to deal with splitting capsules (a nightmare, imo). From everything I've been reading on here since Feb., everyone has a different way of doing things as far as dosing and everything else. Trying to determine what protocol I should try is very overwhelming. Of course, I will soon sit down and try to somehow make sense of the zillions of notes and posts so I can start on SOMEthing in SOME way. Right now I'm leaning toward finishing the few bottles of NCD I have, but I'm afraid of that too. There are pros and cons with EVERYthing I've read in all aspects of health. If I can get the DMSA in low doses to start, I will probably try it though. I just don't know, but I DO like hearing positive stuff happening, like with you : Donna >Donna, >Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and just do it! I know it's scary, but I truly >believe it is the only thing that will eventually get me well. I was nervous about starting this >on my own, but then once I tried it and found I felt better on rounds of chelation, then I >looked forward to my next round. Not everyone gets adrenal and thyroid support before >they start, so you could always try a round at a very low dose and see how you do. Then >you'll know, and if you feel better on round or get some improvements from chelation, this >might allow you to figure out if you need adrenal and thyroid support or not, meaning your >head might be clearer to grasp it. I think as long as you are at least on some of the basic >recommended supplements, you could give chelation a try. >Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Really long post, sorry guys! In frequent-dose-chelation Donna wrote: Jackie, thank you SO much for this encouragement. (You sound like Nike! lol) I really appreciate it! The thing here is that, over the 20 years I've been dealing directly with all this (I've been ill from it for about 40, obvious for 30), I have willing tried so many different treatments and the results has either been VERY harmful or detrimental, or no results, and ALL of it pushed into deep debt. I can't afford to lose any more of my health due to poor protocol or treatment, and for sure, my pocketbook can't handle anymore of this " gambling " , which is exactly what all of this has been over the years: gambling with the hopes of hitting the health improvement jackpot. -----------Donna, I understand. Alot of us have spent way too much money trying to get well. I go through spells of feeling guilty about this too. But the metals won't come out by themselves, and how chelation makes me feel better, I know it's the right thing to do. And my oldest sister sounds alot like you. She has been searching for answers for 30 years, trying expensive alternative doctors and supplements, very strict diets, etc. She finally got her amalgams all removed, I think about a year ago, but I still haven't been able to get her to try chelation either. I try not to be real pushy about it, but I have told her that she has tried so many other things but not chelation, that maybe that is what she needs. We have had alot of family stress over the past couple of years, so maybe this winter I can get her to try it. Anyway, I want you to know I do understand.-----------Jackie I still haven't purchased Andy's book! -----------I have both of his books and really like them. They can be way to much to swallow all at once or at first, but they are the kind you keep refering back to, and then they make more sense. Could one or both books be a Christmas present for you? Just a thought. Might be one way of justifying getting them.--------Jackie --------Also, have you done a hair test? If not, I think they are very worthwhile to do. You get alot of information for the money, I think. It can help you determine if you might have adrenal and thyroid problems, and other things, and whether or not you are mercury toxic. I know it's more money, but I do feel it's the best place to start, and has become a pro at reading them!------Jackie And I already take glyconutrients (which I can't afford) that I will never give up (I've suffered when I do) and to add more supplements will really hurt financially, especially since I never felt any difference with ANY supplements I spent $thousands on over the years. -----------How is your digestion? Not feeling any difference with any supplements might mean that you are not absorbing your supplements, and might need to be taking Betaine HCl (extra stomach acid) with your meals to absorb your nutrients better. A hair test can show this by having an all low pattern. Mine did, and I didn't get serious about using Betaine HCl until this year, and I think it has made a difference. I think I feel the effects of supplements now, and I was finally able to get my ferritin up by taking iron with Betaine HCl. You can also increase your stomach acid by drinking some apple cider vinegar before your meals. So you could try that, if you didn't want to purchase another supplement.--------Jackie There are so many different suggestions by different people as to what helps with what issue, and unless you actually KNOW all your issues, you don't even know what to focus on. ----------Yes, there is alot of information thrown out here on alot of different topics and issues, and they don't all pertain to all of us. Others have suggested picking one issue at a time and work on that one. Then people here can try to help you with it. But in your case, I think you're getting bogged down with all the other possible issues, and this is distracting you from the main thing to focus on, which is trying chelation. You'll never know what it feels like if you don't try it. I didn't address all of my issues before I started, I just got started. Andy says that's one of the biggest mistakes that parents make in the Autism group, is trying to fix everything before they start. That's why I said, Just do it!--------Jackie The technical aspect is over my head, and I don't understand most of the acronyms thrown all over the place, and I am SO sick of this constant reading and thinking about it for so many years. ----------I really don't get all the chemistry, has never been my thing. But Andy just makes alot of sense to me. Just ask, if you don't understand something. And I have gone through spells of being burnt out on reading. But you'll never know what chelation feels like if you never try it, and then you may be wondering about it for many more years, what if?------------Jackie Making the decisions on what to try and how, plus the stress and inability to make those decisions as best I can is extremely difficult. ------------Yes I understand, this can be overwhelming. That is why you need to focus on one thing at a time, or just take the basic supplements and try chelation. Don't worry about all the other stuff right now.-----------Jackie Just getting the damn capsules in low doses is a hassle 'cause I don't know if I can get one of my doctors to prescribe it, which it seems that's the only way to get low dose without having to deal with splitting capsules (a nightmare, imo). ----------Splitting capsules isn't that bad, once you start doing it and get the knack of it. Once again, you won't know until you try, and if you feel better on rounds, then you won't mind splitting the capsules, because you look forward to chelation. And don't take this wrong, but this may be another excuse for yourself to not to try it. I know it's hard to do something new for the first time, but once again, that's why I said, Just do it!----------Jackie From everything I've been reading on here since Feb., everyone has a different way of doing things as far as dosing and everything else. Trying to determine what protocol I should try is very overwhelming. -----------The protocol here is simple. Start with 12.5mg of DMSA and take it every 4 hours, around the clock, including at night, for a minimum of 3 days. If this goes well, stay at that dose for several rounds. I stayed at that dose for many months. If you have problems or symptoms, ask here, and we can probably help. Most people do fine at that dose, a few may have to go even lower. Too many symptoms, lower the dose. Some people do longer rounds. You can experiment with that after you start. Andy has said the length of the round isn't that important, or even the dosage, what is most important is taking the dose every 4 hours to keep your blood levels of chelator fairly constant. That is the key to his protocol. He says a minimum of 3 day rounds is the most effective. Longer is ok. And a few people feel better on more frequent dosing, like every 3 hours instead of 4. But you won't know these things until you try a round at 12.5mg taken every 4 hours. That is where to start. All the other things that are discussed here and that Andy suggests in his book are just to try to help you feel better while you're chelating, so you can hopefully have somewhat of a life during this process, and this might help you get through all of this and be able to function better. I think Klipfel is the one who comes on here occassionally and reminds us not to lose focus on chelation, because that is what is going to eventually get us well, and then hopefully we won't need all those other interventions. That is my hope.------------Jackie Of course, I will soon sit down and try to somehow make sense of the zillions of notes and posts so I can start on SOMEthing in SOME way. Right now I'm leaning toward finishing the few bottles of NCD I have, but I'm afraid of that too. There are pros and cons with EVERYthing I've read in all aspects of health. -----------I have never tried it, so no personal experience with it. I personally felt like Andy's protocol made the most sense to me, so that's the route I went. And it is not part of the protocol here at FDC.-----------Jackie If I can get the DMSA in low doses to start, I will probably try it though. I just don't know, but I DO like hearing positive stuff happening, like with you ------------Like I said, you will never know until you try, and I hope you won't let having to split capsules stop you from trying it. It's really not that hard after you get the hang of it. Maybe someone could help you with it? And if you have any specific questions, just ask.----------Jackie : Donna >Donna, >Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and just do it! I know it's scary, but I truly >believe it is the only thing that will eventually get me well. I was nervous about starting this >on my own, but then once I tried it and found I felt better on rounds of chelation, then I >looked forward to my next round. Not everyone gets adrenal and thyroid support before >they start, so you could always try a round at a very low dose and see how you do. Then >you'll know, and if you feel better on round or get some improvements from chelation, this >might allow you to figure out if you need adrenal and thyroid support or not, meaning your >head might be clearer to grasp it. I think as long as you are at least on some of the basic >recommended supplements, you could give chelation a try. >Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 > > Jackie, thank you SO much for this encouragement. (You sound like Nike! lol) I really appreciate it! The thing here is that, over the 20 years I've been dealing directly with all this (I've been ill from it for about 40, obvious for 30), I have willing tried so many different treatments and the results has either been VERY harmful or detrimental, or no results, and ALL of it pushed into deep debt. I can't afford to lose any more of my health due to poor protocol or treatment, and for sure, my pocketbook can't handle anymore of this " gambling " , which is exactly what all of this has been over the years: gambling with the hopes of hitting the health improvement jackpot. I'm not Jackie, but I do want to make a few comments: If you can't afford to go backwards, I strongly encourage you to focus on the most basic principles of the protocol. People do many things differently, but These Principles Are The Same For Everyone: 1) start with a low dose - generally speaking, 12.5 mg works well for many people, whether you start with DMSA, DMPS, or ALA. If you are very sensitive or are very impaired, I suggest starting lower. 2) take doses at the half-life, DMSA every 4 hours or more often, DMPS every 8 hours or more often, and ALA every 3 hours or more often. including at night - very important. 3) you want your dose to be tolerable, not causing too much symptoms on rounds or at the end of rounds. this is somewhat a judgment call, but be cautious. if you feel too tired, too miserable, try reducing the dose for several rounds. 4) dose increases should not be more than 50% at a time. if it feels like too big an increase, try a smaller increase. 5) take the basic supplements Andy recommends in the book. it doesn't matter if you feel no benefit from them. I don't feel particular benefits from most supplements either, but if I don't take them I get depleted and feel worse. Your body uses up a lot of nutrients while you are chelating - much faster than when you are not chelating. > I still haven't purchased Andy's book! And I already take glyconutrients (which I can't afford) that I will never give up (I've suffered when I do) and to add more supplements will really hurt financially, especially since I never felt any difference with ANY supplements I spent $thousands on over the years. There are so many different suggestions by different people as to what helps with what issue, and unless you actually KNOW all your issues, you don't even know what to focus on. The technical aspect is over my head, and I don't understand most of the acronyms thrown all over the place, and I am SO sick of this constant reading and thinking about it for so many years. Making the decisions on what to try and how, plus the stress and inability to make those decisions as best I can is extremely difficult. Just getting the damn capsules in low doses is a hassle 'cause I don't know if I can get one of my doctors to prescribe it, which it seems that's the only way to I know how overwhelming things are sometimes. I felt like that for so many years. For many people, adrenal support helps a lot and makes everything so much easier. > get low dose without having to deal with splitting capsules (a nightmare, imo). From everything I've been reading on here since Feb., everyone has a different way of doing things as far as dosing and everything else. Trying to determine what protocol I should try is very overwhelming. Of course, I will soon sit down and try to somehow make sense of the zillions of notes and posts so I can start on SOMEthing in SOME way. Right now I'm leaning toward finishing the few bottles of NCD I have, but I'm afraid of that too. There are pros and cons with EVERYthing I've read in all aspects of health. Andy has stated that many people do get some benefits from zeolites (NCD is zeolites, I think?), but it does not chelate so the benefits are not from removing metals. It probably helps in some way with dysbiosis. It is fine to use this if you don't have a problem with it. Andy does report there are a few people who react badly to it, but if you have used it without problems, you should be fine. -- > If I can get the DMSA in low doses to start, I will probably try it though. I just don't know, but I DO like hearing positive stuff happening, like with you > : Donna > > >Donna, > > >Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and just do it! I know it's scary, but I truly >believe it is the only thing that will eventually get me well. I was nervous about starting this >on my own, but then once I tried it and found I felt better on rounds of chelation, then I >looked forward to my next round. Not everyone gets adrenal and thyroid support before >they start, so you could always try a round at a very low dose and see how you do. Then >you'll know, and if you feel better on round or get some improvements from chelation, this >might allow you to figure out if you need adrenal and thyroid support or not, meaning your >head might be clearer to grasp it. I think as long as you are at least on some of the basic >recommended supplements, you could give chelation a try. > > >Jackie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 > > Jackie, thank you SO much for this encouragement. (You sound like Nike! lol) I really appreciate it! The thing here is that, over the 20 years I've been dealing directly with all this (I've been ill from it for about 40, obvious for 30), I have willing tried so many different treatments and the results has either been VERY harmful or detrimental, or no results, and ALL of it pushed into deep debt. I can't afford to lose any more of my health due to poor protocol or treatment, and for sure, my pocketbook can't handle anymore of this " gambling " , which is exactly what all of this has been over the years: gambling with the hopes of hitting the health improvement jackpot. I'm not Jackie, but I do want to make a few comments: If you can't afford to go backwards, I strongly encourage you to focus on the most basic principles of the protocol. People do many things differently, but These Principles Are The Same For Everyone: 1) start with a low dose - generally speaking, 12.5 mg works well for many people, whether you start with DMSA, DMPS, or ALA. If you are very sensitive or are very impaired, I suggest starting lower. 2) take doses at the half-life, DMSA every 4 hours or more often, DMPS every 8 hours or more often, and ALA every 3 hours or more often. including at night - very important. 3) you want your dose to be tolerable, not causing too much symptoms on rounds or at the end of rounds. this is somewhat a judgment call, but be cautious. if you feel too tired, too miserable, try reducing the dose for several rounds. 4) dose increases should not be more than 50% at a time. if it feels like too big an increase, try a smaller increase. 5) take the basic supplements Andy recommends in the book. it doesn't matter if you feel no benefit from them. I don't feel particular benefits from most supplements either, but if I don't take them I get depleted and feel worse. Your body uses up a lot of nutrients while you are chelating - much faster than when you are not chelating. > I still haven't purchased Andy's book! And I already take glyconutrients (which I can't afford) that I will never give up (I've suffered when I do) and to add more supplements will really hurt financially, especially since I never felt any difference with ANY supplements I spent $thousands on over the years. There are so many different suggestions by different people as to what helps with what issue, and unless you actually KNOW all your issues, you don't even know what to focus on. The technical aspect is over my head, and I don't understand most of the acronyms thrown all over the place, and I am SO sick of this constant reading and thinking about it for so many years. Making the decisions on what to try and how, plus the stress and inability to make those decisions as best I can is extremely difficult. Just getting the damn capsules in low doses is a hassle 'cause I don't know if I can get one of my doctors to prescribe it, which it seems that's the only way to I know how overwhelming things are sometimes. I felt like that for so many years. For many people, adrenal support helps a lot and makes everything so much easier. > get low dose without having to deal with splitting capsules (a nightmare, imo). From everything I've been reading on here since Feb., everyone has a different way of doing things as far as dosing and everything else. Trying to determine what protocol I should try is very overwhelming. Of course, I will soon sit down and try to somehow make sense of the zillions of notes and posts so I can start on SOMEthing in SOME way. Right now I'm leaning toward finishing the few bottles of NCD I have, but I'm afraid of that too. There are pros and cons with EVERYthing I've read in all aspects of health. Andy has stated that many people do get some benefits from zeolites (NCD is zeolites, I think?), but it does not chelate so the benefits are not from removing metals. It probably helps in some way with dysbiosis. It is fine to use this if you don't have a problem with it. Andy does report there are a few people who react badly to it, but if you have used it without problems, you should be fine. -- > If I can get the DMSA in low doses to start, I will probably try it though. I just don't know, but I DO like hearing positive stuff happening, like with you > : Donna > > >Donna, > > >Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and just do it! I know it's scary, but I truly >believe it is the only thing that will eventually get me well. I was nervous about starting this >on my own, but then once I tried it and found I felt better on rounds of chelation, then I >looked forward to my next round. Not everyone gets adrenal and thyroid support before >they start, so you could always try a round at a very low dose and see how you do. Then >you'll know, and if you feel better on round or get some improvements from chelation, this >might allow you to figure out if you need adrenal and thyroid support or not, meaning your >head might be clearer to grasp it. I think as long as you are at least on some of the basic >recommended supplements, you could give chelation a try. > > >Jackie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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