Re: - The perfect Chelation supplement

March 29, 2008

> The trouble is it is hard to get

> him to take supplements if there are multiple bottles of stuff to

> juggle. I will have to get him to try sulfur exclusion to clarify

> his sulfur status, or find another multi for him. Thanks for pointing

> this out.

Hi and others,

What would the 'perfect' multimineral contain for those of us chelating?

We have an excellent compounding pharmacist here that might consider making

it for us with the highest quality ingredients, without binders or fillers

etc (though it would take several months of preparation, but it is worth

researching and seeing what it would entail. At any rate it would help us

all learn what the basics are again)

I'm thinking of a 'foundation' chelation supplement that we could take 8

times per day (i.e one capsule with each ALA chelation dose, and an extra 2

capsules with the DMSA round) and would thus know we are getting all the

basic supplements recommended by Andy. This would allow us to focus more on

other problems specific to each of us e.g thyroid and adrenal etc.

I'm thinking of three combinations that would need to be taken to fulfill

these requirements.

I have looked at the recommendations by Andy on page 133 AI using the lowest

dose (as one could always take more if needed).

The supplement that would contain ingredients that virtually everyone could

handle e.g no sulphur or other ingredients mercury toxic people react easily

too. Here would be the 3 suggestions

1) CHELATION MULTIMINERAL taken with every dose, with ingredients that would

not interfere with sleep e.g B-vitamins.

- Magnesium Citrate/Aspartate Total per day 750mg meaning 93.75mg per

capsule

- Zinc Total per day 50mg meaning 6.25mg per capsule

- Molybdenum Total per day 250mg meaning 31.25mg per capsule

- Selenium Total per day 50mg meaning 6.25mg per capsule

- Milk thistle Total per day 250mg meaning

31.5mg per capsule

- Vinpocetine Total per day 5mg meaning 1.66mg per capsule

- Carotene Total per day 7.5mg meaning 0.98mg per capsule

- Hydergine Total per day 10mg meaning 1.25mg per capsule

- Chromium Total per day 500mcg meaning 62.5mg per capsule

- Vit C (Ascorbic acid) Total per day 4g meaning 500mg per capsule

(this would be impossible to do so would need its own capsule).

- Lysine Total per day 2000mg meaning

250mg per capsule (also too big for one capsule.)

- What about Taurine? Does everyone including sulfur people tolerate this?

2) CHELATION DAY-TIME DOSE SUPPLEMENT, containing 'energy giving'

ingredients, taken with first 3 doses of chelation of the day (so as not to

interfere with sleep at night):

- B-complex Total per day 50mg meaning 16.6mg per capsule

- Co-enzyme Q10 Total per day 100mg meaning 12.5mg per capsule

- Arginine Total per day 6000mg meaning 2000mg per capsule (not

possible for such a big dose in one capsule)

- Acetyl L-Carnitine Total per day 1000mg meaning 333.33mg per capsule (was

not sure if this gives energy?)

3) OILS: Taken twice per day (she can compound this into a liquid that

could be taken in tablespoon doses).

Vit E, natural form: Total per day 400IU meaning 200IU per dose.

Flax Oil: Total per day 1 tablespoon meaning 1/2 tablespoon per dose

Fish Oil, pharmaceutical grade: Total per day 1 tablespoon meaning

1/2 tablespoon per dose

Thanks,

Dean

March 30, 2008

>

> > The trouble is it is hard to get

> > him to take supplements if there are multiple bottles of stuff to

> > juggle. I will have to get him to try sulfur exclusion to clarify

> > his sulfur status, or find another multi for him. Thanks for pointing

> > this out.

>

> Hi and others,

>

> What would the 'perfect' multimineral contain for those of us chelating?

I'm sorry to say it, but there is not a perfect multimineral for

everyone. Some people are more sensitive than others and in my

opinion it makes great sense to add minerals one at a time so you

can learn your response to things. It is also nice to be able to

increase, decrease, add or drop individual items independently.

Some people will be far more sensitive, for example, to magnesium

and will need to increase it starting with a small amount and

working up slowly. Someone just posted today about reacting to

chromium, many people have trouble with selenium.

Also, some people will do better on one form of a mineral than

another and this might be individual. (Eg, magnesium citrate

vs glycinate vs aspartate vs malate, etc).

Some of us are less sensitive, but you don't know that when you

are just starting.

I actually take individual minerals, and my multimineral is just

an add-on and provides some trace minerals that I need but others

may not want or need.

> We have an excellent compounding pharmacist here that might consider

making

> it for us with the highest quality ingredients, without binders or

fillers

> etc (though it would take several months of preparation, but it is

worth

> researching and seeing what it would entail. At any rate it would

help us

> all learn what the basics are again)

>

> I'm thinking of a 'foundation' chelation supplement that we could

take 8

> times per day (i.e one capsule with each ALA chelation dose, and an

extra 2

> capsules with the DMSA round) and would thus know we are getting all

the

> basic supplements recommended by Andy. This would allow us to focus

more on

> other problems specific to each of us e.g thyroid and adrenal etc.

I suppose you could prepare something like this for use with people

who are more tolerant, but there are a number of products out there

that would likely suffice for those people.

> I'm thinking of three combinations that would need to be taken to

fulfill

> these requirements.

> I have looked at the recommendations by Andy on page 133 AI using

the lowest

> dose (as one could always take more if needed).

> The supplement that would contain ingredients that virtually

everyone could

> handle e.g no sulphur or other ingredients mercury toxic people

react easily

> too. Here would be the 3 suggestions

>

> 1) CHELATION MULTIMINERAL taken with every dose, with ingredients

that would

> not interfere with sleep e.g B-vitamins.

>

> - Magnesium Citrate/Aspartate Total per day 750mg meaning

93.75mg per

> capsule

> - Zinc Total per day 50mg meaning 6.25mg per

capsule

> - Molybdenum Total per day 250mg meaning 31.25mg per capsule

> - Selenium Total per day 50mg meaning 6.25mg per capsule

> - Milk thistle Total per day 250mg meaning

> 31.5mg per capsule

> - Vinpocetine Total per day 5mg meaning 1.66mg per capsule

> - Carotene Total per day 7.5mg meaning 0.98mg per capsule

> - Hydergine Total per day 10mg meaning 1.25mg per capsule

> - Chromium Total per day 500mcg meaning 62.5mg per capsule

Again, there are problems here. A lot of people would want to take

more or less than these amounts. Some would not tolerate certain

forms of minerals, some cannot or should not take milk thistle,

vinpocetine, carotene and I would imagine some do not tolerate

hydergine and others on the list.

> - Vit C (Ascorbic acid) Total per day 4g meaning 500mg per capsule

> (this would be impossible to do so would need its own capsule).

> - Lysine Total per day 2000mg meaning

> 250mg per capsule (also too big for one capsule.)

>

> - What about Taurine? Does everyone including sulfur people tolerate

this?

No - some don't.

> 2) CHELATION DAY-TIME DOSE SUPPLEMENT, containing 'energy giving'

> ingredients, taken with first 3 doses of chelation of the day (so as

not to

> interfere with sleep at night):

>

> - B-complex Total per day 50mg meaning 16.6mg per capsule

> - Co-enzyme Q10 Total per day 100mg meaning 12.5mg per capsule

> - Arginine Total per day 6000mg meaning 2000mg per capsule (not

> possible for such a big dose in one capsule)

> - Acetyl L-Carnitine Total per day 1000mg meaning 333.33mg per

capsule (was

> not sure if this gives energy?)

More problems. I just dropped ALC - it used to help me, now it

causes problems. Arginine appropriate for some, not for others.

Etc.

> 3) OILS: Taken twice per day (she can compound this into a liquid that

> could be taken in tablespoon doses).

> Vit E, natural form: Total per day 400IU meaning 200IU

per dose.

> Flax Oil: Total per day 1 tablespoon meaning 1/2 tablespoon

per dose

> Fish Oil, pharmaceutical grade: Total per day 1 tablespoon

meaning

> 1/2 tablespoon per dose

Once again, I think you will find there are individual tolerances,

preferences, needs.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, Dean. I think it's fine to

prepare something like this for those who want it and tolerate it,

but you are definitely going to have people who need to go with

individual supplements.

I have personally found it very educational to learn my response to

specific supplements. I am still not as good at noticing things as

I'd like to be, but I think it is a good goal.

--

> Thanks,

> Dean

>

March 30, 2008

Dean - I think this is a good idea, even if it wont' be perfect for

everyone.

I have a supplement here that Andy took a look at once. His reaction

was, " Well, it's got everything in there - except maybe you could do

without the copper. " He also asked me if I actually took 6 per day, to

which I responded " yes " . So, I thought I'd give you this list here, for

what it's worth.

Maybe we could make up this nutrient list and then pass it by Andy for a

check?

(This is per " serving " , which means 6 capsules):

Vit A (50% palmitate, 50% mixed-carotenoids) - 10,000IU

Vit C (50% ascorbic acid, 50% calcium ascorbate) - 1,000mg

Vit D3 - 400IU

Vit E (d-alpha tocopheryl succinate) - 200IU

Vit K (phytonadione) - 100mcg

Vit B1 (thiamine HCL) - 50mg

Vit B2 (riboflavin/ riboflavin 5-phosphate) - 25mg

Vit B3 (niacin/ niacinamide) - 100mg (Maybe they mean 50% niacin / 50%

niacinamide??)

Vit B5 (calcium pantothenate) - 250mg

Vit B6 (pyridoxine/ Pyridoxal 5-phosphate) - 50mg

Vit B12 (cyanocobalamin/ methylcobalamin) - 250mcg

Folic Acid - 800mcg

Biotin - 300mcg

Calcium (citrate/ ascorbate/ pantothenate) - 250mg

Magnesium (aspartate/ ascorbate/ citrate) - 250mg

Potassium (aspartate) - 99mg (The legal limit, apparently)

Zinc (Optizinc- ) - 20mg

Selenium (selenomethionine) - 200mcg

Iodine (as kelp) - 75mcg

Manganese (aspartate) - 3mg

Chromium (Chromate ) - 200mcg

Molybdenum (chelate) - 50mcg

Copper (sebacate) - 2mg

Inositol - 50mg

Vanadium (vanadyl sulfate) - 25mcg

Boron (citrate) - 3mg

I think we should increase the vit D3 to at least 1000IU (this is now

official canadian dietary recommendation). The vit E could be 1600IU

(Andy has said that the stuff is totally non-toxic and that some

cyclists drink a glass of the stuff a day, 1600IU is what has been used

in research on nutrition in psych illness that I've been reading) and

the Vit C could go up, maybe to 2gm. We would want the B3 as

niacinamide. Zinc might be in picolinate form and up to 100mg.

Not exhaustive, but a start, perhaps?

Dave.

PS. Quick skim of your list, Dean. Milk Thistle can cause kidney

stones (high in oxylates) so I'd keep that separate. Also, the

vinpocetine and hydergine are specialized perfusion enhancers. I dont'

think they should be there unless someone is putting together a regimen

of such " nutrient analogues " (chemically similar to nutrients, but

modified to get across the BBB). I, for example, have tried both and

found that the vinpocetine made me feel vaguely off-balance all the

time. I'd also keep the amino acids separate. We might consider a

second supplement, including lecithin, taurine, glycine and milk-thistle

as bile support. I think the fish oil would have to be separate. The

stuff needs to be handled delicately and bottled under nitrogen to

preserve freshness - so I'd say leave that one as is.

-------------------

Posted by: " DeanNetwork " dean@...

dean@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20%20-%20The%20perfec\

t%20Chelation%20supplement>

deansta22 http://profiles.yahoo.com/deansta22>

Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:48 pm (PDT)

> The trouble is it is hard to get

> him to take supplements if there are multiple bottles of stuff to

> juggle. I will have to get him to try sulfur exclusion to clarify

> his sulfur status, or find another multi for him. Thanks for pointing

> this out.

Hi and others,

What would the 'perfect' multimineral contain for those of us chelating?

We have an excellent compounding pharmacist here that might consider making

it for us with the highest quality ingredients, without binders or fillers

etc (though it would take several months of preparation, but it is worth

researching and seeing what it would entail. At any rate it would help us

all learn what the basics are again)

I'm thinking of a 'foundation' chelation supplement that we could take 8

times per day (i.e one capsule with each ALA chelation dose, and an extra 2

capsules with the DMSA round) and would thus know we are getting all the

basic supplements recommended by Andy. This would allow us to focus more on

other problems specific to each of us e.g thyroid and adrenal etc.

I'm thinking of three combinations that would need to be taken to fulfill

these requirements.

I have looked at the recommendations by Andy on page 133 AI using the

lowest

dose (as one could always take more if needed).

The supplement that would contain ingredients that virtually everyone could

handle e.g no sulphur or other ingredients mercury toxic people react

easily

too. Here would be the 3 suggestions

1) CHELATION MULTIMINERAL taken with every dose, with ingredients that

would

not interfere with sleep e.g B-vitamins.

- Magnesium Citrate/Aspartate Total per day 750mg meaning 93.75mg per

capsule

- Zinc Total per day 50mg meaning 6.25mg per capsule

- Molybdenum Total per day 250mg meaning 31.25mg per capsule

- Selenium Total per day 50mg meaning 6.25mg per capsule

- Milk thistle Total per day 250mg meaning

31.5mg per capsule

- Vinpocetine Total per day 5mg meaning 1.66mg per capsule

- Carotene Total per day 7.5mg meaning 0.98mg per capsule

- Hydergine Total per day 10mg meaning 1.25mg per capsule

- Chromium Total per day 500mcg meaning 62.5mg per capsule

- Vit C (Ascorbic acid) Total per day 4g meaning 500mg per capsule

(this would be impossible to do so would need its own capsule).

- Lysine Total per day 2000mg meaning

250mg per capsule (also too big for one capsule.)

- What about Taurine? Does everyone including sulfur people tolerate this?

2) CHELATION DAY-TIME DOSE SUPPLEMENT, containing 'energy giving'

ingredients, taken with first 3 doses of chelation of the day (so as not to

interfere with sleep at night):

- B-complex Total per day 50mg meaning 16.6mg per capsule

- Co-enzyme Q10 Total per day 100mg meaning 12.5mg per capsule

- Arginine Total per day 6000mg meaning 2000mg per capsule (not

possible for such a big dose in one capsule)

- Acetyl L-Carnitine Total per day 1000mg meaning 333.33mg per capsule (was

not sure if this gives energy?)

3) OILS: Taken twice per day (she can compound this into a liquid that

could be taken in tablespoon doses).

Vit E, natural form: Total per day 400IU meaning 200IU per dose.

Flax Oil: Total per day 1 tablespoon meaning 1/2 tablespoon per dose

Fish Oil, pharmaceutical grade: Total per day 1 tablespoon meaning

1/2 tablespoon per dose

Thanks,

Dean

March 31, 2008

I have sporadically taken the Defense and Replenish product, a two

stage supplement from CFS nutrition. Good folks. The owner went

through his own Hg related health problems (chron's etc...) and in the

process changed careers etc.... I have not looked over the

ingredient list in a long time. Might include ALA.

Personally, I have found that mineral supplementation is far more

important than anything else and I tolerate the Krebs Cycle Chelates

from Enzymatic Therapy very well. To that I add Chromium, zinc when

I'm sick with a cold, calcium citrate to protect against oxylates, and

1-3 grams of Pantothenic acid and Esther C in divided doses daily. I

read long ago (30 years) in Adelle 's book(s) that B-5 does NOT

create imbalance with other B vitamins and I have found that to be

true. I make sure I get D-3 in the wintertime and I tolerate the

Nordic natural balanced Omega and thrive on Hemp Seed oil. Also

protein, protein, protein. And my diet includes a lot of different

alginates (Hiziki, Arame, Dulse etc...) and alot of fiber. Fiber is

easy as I have been on a meatless diet for 32 years. I find I am very

sensitive to bad eggs (grain fed chickens organic only) and for the

past 3-4 years I eat one 4oz serving of Pacific Wild Caught Salmon

some months, but do not tolerate most other seafoods.

Doug

March 31, 2008