RE: Re: Help pl. Should my husband still chelate (opposed to doc's view)?

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation toowittybird wrote:

Jackie wrote:

>And, if you were to follow their chelation protocol, using large

>infrequent doses, then you probably would have to do alot more

>*preparing* for the damage its going to do.

No, this doc works with Andy Cutler's protocol and knows I would like

to do the same.

---------That's great. Do you mind me asking where this doctor

is?-------Jackie

>And the final straw for me was that this DAN doctor I seen didn't get

>the adrenal thing, and gave me Armour thyroid, when I desperately

>needed adrenal support first.

Hmmm, I suspect I have hypothyroid issues (low body temperatures, hair

dry and falling - no tests done yet), and the doc did not feel the

need for me to get thyroid tests done to maybe support it during

chelation - " the thyroid does get messed up when there are mercury

issues - it should go away once you chelate " I what I was told for my

situation.

-------------If you feel you have hypothyroid symptoms, I don't know why this

doctor wouldn't test them, at least once. I find it odd he won't test them at

all. Do some reading in the adrenal file and links, some of that is thyroid

also. Dr. Rind's website has a list of adrenal and thyroid symptoms and a

mixture of both. Dean has alot of great info at his website also

www.livingnetwork.co.za (I think I got that right) about adrenals and thyroid.

You should probably track your temps. It is possible that your thyroid will get

better once you finish chelating, but you may feel much better if you get your

adrenals and thyroid supported *before or during* chelation.

If you haven't been working on adrenals and thyroid this past year, then what

have you been working on with this doctor to prepare you for chelation? Andy

has said to work on these things while you are chelating, because if you try to

fix everything first, you may never get started. So I would suggest you learn

some more about adrenals and thyroid, track your temps, and then tell this

doctor you want some testing done, and if he won't help you, then either find

another doctor or order the tests yourself. Maybe he doesn't know much about

treating these things, but then he should be honest about that. Remember, you

are paying him, so technically he is working for you, so you should be able to

request testing and treatment that you feel is necessary.---------Jackie

>So my experience wasn't very good, I started chelating on my own, and

>

> --------------If his hair test still shows deranged mineral

transport, then he probably still has a mercury problem. If he has

been taking supplements, etc. then it would make sense that his hair

test improved some.

Yes, been supplementing for almost a year.

-----------Then that alone can account for the improvement in his hair test

from the first to second test. But if the second test still meets the counting

rules, even after supplementing for a year, then that tells me he's still toxic

and would benefit from chelation. There is no harm in *trying* a few rounds of

chelation. If he's not toxic, then it won't do anything to him. If he is, he

may notice feeling different either on round or when he stops.----------Jackie

> ------------I think in ambiguous cases, Andy usually recommends a

trial of chelation to help determine toxicity. Then you should know

for sure. I think 5-10 rounds are recommended. If he has symptoms on

or after ending a round, then that should confirm it.

I am sorry, but I am not sure what sort of symptoms is one supposed to

watch for? Are you saying a person gets worse? Fatigued? Is there

mental confusion? He is working currently and travels sometimes - that

in itself makes me nervous about the possible side effects.

------------Side effects can be different for different people. Some people,

like me, feel better when on a round, when the dose is right (not too high).

When I tried taking a higher dose before I was ready for it, it would wipe me

out and make me feel like going to bed. Too high of dose made me less

functional, the right dose made me feel better and more functional. Others

report a variety of symptoms, usually when they stop the round, and sometimes on

round, fatigue probably being one of the most common ones, maybe headache, aches

and pains, brain fog, etc.

I can understand you being nervous about trying this when he is working, and

definitely don't do it when he has to travel. When you try it for the first

time, pick a time when there is not much going on, no upcoming travel, etc.,

when you can just stay at home and monitor how he does. Once you see how he

reacts to chelation, then you can decide when you think he can do it. I know it

can be scary doing something for the first time, but on Cutler's protocol and on

low doses, the chances of having problems is minimal. And if you don't like how

you feel during the round, then just stop. Sometimes you just have to bite the

bullet and do it. You'll never know how chelation feels until you try

it.----------Jackie

>My reaction to chelators sealed the deal for me, and I felt no other

>need to *prove it* to anyone else that I was toxic. If I were you, I

>would try DMSA or ALA in low doses on your husband, especially since

>he doesn't have any amalgams. There's no need to have this doctor's

>blessing or even tell him that you're doing it. If he says your

>husband is healthy enough to not see him for 6 months, then I think

>he's healthy enough to try a low dose of chelation. JMO. Of course,

>the final decision is up to you.-----------Jackie

>

Thanks for your advice, Jackie.

-----------You're welcome, and I hope I don't come across as too pushy or

anti-doctor, but it seems that most aren't that helpful when it comes to

chelation. And I don't hold them up on a pedestal anymore either. I need them

to help me with other issues like hormone imbalances and presciptions, etc., but

I don't feel like I need a doctor when it comes to chelation, except for

prescribing DMPS. I have learned what I need to know about chelation from

Andy's books and these forums, and some of it is just trial and error. The

people here probably know all you need to know about chelation, are available

all the time, are wonderful, and free. It's just when you need testing and

possibly prescriptions for other things that come along with mercury poisoning,

that you need a doctor. Otherwise, IMO, whether or not you try chelation is up

to you and your husband, not your doctor.---------Jackie

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation toowittybird wrote:

Jackie wrote:

>And, if you were to follow their chelation protocol, using large

>infrequent doses, then you probably would have to do alot more

>*preparing* for the damage its going to do.

No, this doc works with Andy Cutler's protocol and knows I would like

to do the same.

---------That's great. Do you mind me asking where this doctor

is?-------Jackie

>And the final straw for me was that this DAN doctor I seen didn't get

>the adrenal thing, and gave me Armour thyroid, when I desperately

>needed adrenal support first.

Hmmm, I suspect I have hypothyroid issues (low body temperatures, hair

dry and falling - no tests done yet), and the doc did not feel the

need for me to get thyroid tests done to maybe support it during

chelation - " the thyroid does get messed up when there are mercury

issues - it should go away once you chelate " I what I was told for my

situation.

-------------If you feel you have hypothyroid symptoms, I don't know why this

doctor wouldn't test them, at least once. I find it odd he won't test them at

all. Do some reading in the adrenal file and links, some of that is thyroid

also. Dr. Rind's website has a list of adrenal and thyroid symptoms and a

mixture of both. Dean has alot of great info at his website also

www.livingnetwork.co.za (I think I got that right) about adrenals and thyroid.

You should probably track your temps. It is possible that your thyroid will get

better once you finish chelating, but you may feel much better if you get your

adrenals and thyroid supported *before or during* chelation.

If you haven't been working on adrenals and thyroid this past year, then what

have you been working on with this doctor to prepare you for chelation? Andy

has said to work on these things while you are chelating, because if you try to

fix everything first, you may never get started. So I would suggest you learn

some more about adrenals and thyroid, track your temps, and then tell this

doctor you want some testing done, and if he won't help you, then either find

another doctor or order the tests yourself. Maybe he doesn't know much about

treating these things, but then he should be honest about that. Remember, you

are paying him, so technically he is working for you, so you should be able to

request testing and treatment that you feel is necessary.---------Jackie

>So my experience wasn't very good, I started chelating on my own, and

>

> --------------If his hair test still shows deranged mineral

transport, then he probably still has a mercury problem. If he has

been taking supplements, etc. then it would make sense that his hair

test improved some.

Yes, been supplementing for almost a year.

-----------Then that alone can account for the improvement in his hair test

from the first to second test. But if the second test still meets the counting

rules, even after supplementing for a year, then that tells me he's still toxic

and would benefit from chelation. There is no harm in *trying* a few rounds of

chelation. If he's not toxic, then it won't do anything to him. If he is, he

may notice feeling different either on round or when he stops.----------Jackie

> ------------I think in ambiguous cases, Andy usually recommends a

trial of chelation to help determine toxicity. Then you should know

for sure. I think 5-10 rounds are recommended. If he has symptoms on

or after ending a round, then that should confirm it.

I am sorry, but I am not sure what sort of symptoms is one supposed to

watch for? Are you saying a person gets worse? Fatigued? Is there

mental confusion? He is working currently and travels sometimes - that

in itself makes me nervous about the possible side effects.

------------Side effects can be different for different people. Some people,

like me, feel better when on a round, when the dose is right (not too high).

When I tried taking a higher dose before I was ready for it, it would wipe me

out and make me feel like going to bed. Too high of dose made me less

functional, the right dose made me feel better and more functional. Others

report a variety of symptoms, usually when they stop the round, and sometimes on

round, fatigue probably being one of the most common ones, maybe headache, aches

and pains, brain fog, etc.

I can understand you being nervous about trying this when he is working, and

definitely don't do it when he has to travel. When you try it for the first

time, pick a time when there is not much going on, no upcoming travel, etc.,

when you can just stay at home and monitor how he does. Once you see how he

reacts to chelation, then you can decide when you think he can do it. I know it

can be scary doing something for the first time, but on Cutler's protocol and on

low doses, the chances of having problems is minimal. And if you don't like how

you feel during the round, then just stop. Sometimes you just have to bite the

bullet and do it. You'll never know how chelation feels until you try

it.----------Jackie

>My reaction to chelators sealed the deal for me, and I felt no other

>need to *prove it* to anyone else that I was toxic. If I were you, I

>would try DMSA or ALA in low doses on your husband, especially since

>he doesn't have any amalgams. There's no need to have this doctor's

>blessing or even tell him that you're doing it. If he says your

>husband is healthy enough to not see him for 6 months, then I think

>he's healthy enough to try a low dose of chelation. JMO. Of course,

>the final decision is up to you.-----------Jackie

>

Thanks for your advice, Jackie.

-----------You're welcome, and I hope I don't come across as too pushy or

anti-doctor, but it seems that most aren't that helpful when it comes to

chelation. And I don't hold them up on a pedestal anymore either. I need them

to help me with other issues like hormone imbalances and presciptions, etc., but

I don't feel like I need a doctor when it comes to chelation, except for

prescribing DMPS. I have learned what I need to know about chelation from

Andy's books and these forums, and some of it is just trial and error. The

people here probably know all you need to know about chelation, are available

all the time, are wonderful, and free. It's just when you need testing and

possibly prescriptions for other things that come along with mercury poisoning,

that you need a doctor. Otherwise, IMO, whether or not you try chelation is up

to you and your husband, not your doctor.---------Jackie

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation toowittybird wrote:

> No, this doc works with Andy Cutler's protocol and knows I would like

> to do the same.

>

> ---------That's great. Do you mind me asking where this doctor

is?-------Jackie

>

Jackie,

I am in Spain.

------------Ok, I can't always remember where people are from. There seems to

be some bias against Andy among some DAN doctors in the US, and the one I seen,

was one of them.--------Jackie

>

>

> If you haven't been working on adrenals and thyroid this past

year, then what have you been working on with this doctor to prepare

you for chelation? .---------Jackie

For my husband - his liver issues

For myself - being a Crohn's patient with amalgams that needed

removal, just helping the system get stronger

-----------Ok, yes amalgam removal is a process in itself, and I don't have

Crohn's, so don't know all that you are dealing with.-----------Jackie

>

>

>

> >My reaction to chelators sealed the deal for me, and I felt no other

> >need to *prove it* to anyone else that I was toxic. If I were you, I

> >would try DMSA or ALA in low doses on your husband, especially since

> >he doesn't have any amalgams.

Since hubby is slowly improving on the liver issues, would it be

better to chelate just with ALA? I read on one of the replies in the

Autism-Mercury Group that DMSA/DMPS could affect the liver, but then

again I thought they help reduce side effects of the ALA. Am I right?

Or is it better in his situation to do both both DMSA and ALA?

------------This is a tough call, and sorry to say, it may just take some

experimentation on your part. Some people do better on different chelators, and

I think you don't know until you try them. Some people do do better on just ALA

alone, and some feel better when they take it with DMSA/DMPS. ALA is supposed

to be good for the liver, so might be good for your husband. And you are right,

DMSA or DMPS can reduce side effects for some people while taking ALA, but you

won't know until you try them. But whatever you decide to try first, for sure

start with only one chelator at a time, to see how he reacts to just that one.

Also, does he have any other metals besides mercury to deal with? That can also

help in choosing a chelator to try. If he has lead, you might want to start

with DMSA. If he has arsenic, then you would want to try DMPS or ALA. If it's

just mercury, you could try any of them. And maybe availability will help you

decide. Which ones can you get in Spain?-------Jackie

>

>

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation toowittybird wrote:

> Also, does he have any other metals besides mercury to deal with?

>That can also help in choosing a chelator to try. If he has lead, >you

>might want to start with DMSA. If he has arsenic, then you would >want to try

DMPS or ALA.

Tough to say since his Urine test does not give any indication of either.

-----------Then I would not worry about other metals right now, and just

assume he has mercury, or that that is his main problem, and then you can

use/try/start with any of the chelators, and see how he tolerates

them.--------Jackie

If it's just mercury, you could try any of them. And maybe

availability will help you decide. Which ones can you get in

Spain?-------Jackie

>

DMPS with doc's prescription (and this doc is pretty adamant about

using only TD DMPS vs the capsules), but I have already arranged for

Kirkman's ALA and VRP's DMSA (25 mg each), had to get it from the States.

------------So since you'll have DMSA and ALA arriving soon, I would suggest

trying the DMSA by itself first. That's what most people do. Then they add in

ALA later. If he doesn't tolerate the DMSA very well, he can try ALA by itself.

Everyone is different, and some people feel better on ALA alone, and some do

better with the combination. It just takes some experimenting.---------Jackie

BTW, my doc says that if taking both, then the DMSA dose should be

extended for an extra 8 hours ( so one ends up taking more DMSA

capsules than ALA for each round). This is to help the mercury removed

by ALA to be excreted out by the DMSA. Anyone heard of this? I don't

see the harm in it.

-----------Yes this is fine and many people do it. Some say it helps to

lessen the symptoms at the end of the round. I think some do a whole day of

just DMSA.-------Jackie

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: toowittybird

BTW, my doc says that if taking both, then the DMSA dose should be

extended for an extra 8 hours ( so one ends up taking more DMSA

capsules than ALA for each round). This is to help the mercury removed

by ALA to be excreted out by the DMSA. Anyone heard of this? I don't

see the harm in it.

====>Nope, no harm, some do this and some don't and both seem to do fine.

[Guest guest]

" BTW, my doc says that if taking both, then the DMSA dose should be

extended for an extra 8 hours ( so one ends up taking more DMSA

capsules than ALA for each round). This is to help the mercury removed

by ALA to be excreted out by the DMSA. Anyone heard of this? I don't

see the harm in it. "

Yes, this is exactly what Andy suggests - to end the round with a few doses

of dmsa alone to " mop up " any stray hg floating around. Sounds like this

doc has been taking the trouble to inform himself!

Dean