Re: Test Results - Andy, Dean, Others?

February 26, 2008

Hi Joanne,

Sorry for the delay, I've been away and am never gonna catch up on missed

emails, but I caught my name in the heading :-)

Your situation does not fit the norm and is quite complex, so I would

strongly encourage you to consult with Andy directly.

Ask him for the appropriate forms to fill out and then get your dr to sign

them.

You can also collate all your info and ask him to do a file review (more

expensive) and then have some phone consults.

I'm certain that you'll get more value out of that then any other tests.

Let us know if you do it.

DeanSA

> I'm really struggling with what to do based on recent test results

> for hormones, cholesterol, etc.

February 26, 2008

Hi Joanne,

Sorry for the delay, I've been away and am never gonna catch up on missed

emails, but I caught my name in the heading :-)

Your situation does not fit the norm and is quite complex, so I would

strongly encourage you to consult with Andy directly.

Ask him for the appropriate forms to fill out and then get your dr to sign

them.

You can also collate all your info and ask him to do a file review (more

expensive) and then have some phone consults.

I'm certain that you'll get more value out of that then any other tests.

Let us know if you do it.

DeanSA

> I'm really struggling with what to do based on recent test results

> for hormones, cholesterol, etc.

February 26, 2008

>

> I'm really struggling with what to do based on recent test results

> for hormones, cholesterol, etc.

>

> Background info on hormones: I've shown all-day borderline low

> cortisol (per saliva testing). I clearly benefit in small degrees

> from taking Isocort, have benefitted going off & on with Adrenal

> Stress Formula, & recently seem to benefit from a bit of

> hydrocortisone cream each day. All of my hormones are low or

> borderline low, have been for years, and are very hard to treat.

What makes them hard to treat? What happens?

> Prior to initiating treatment 5 years ago, T4 was high in proportion

> to T3 (each just within normal ranges), so I wound up on

> T3/Cytomel. Early response to Cytomel & natural creams such as

> progesterone & testosterone was surprisingly good, but follow-up

> tests showed I was accumulating them at dangerous levels in my

> bloodstream,

Why is this dangerous? I am not sure whether this is a problem if

you feel good. Especially if it is a temporary thing while you

detox. It seems like if we need a lot more vits/mins than healthy

people, we may need a lot more hormones than healthy people, too.

How do saliva test results look? If you have a lot of hormone

floating around in blood, but it is not having excess " tissue effect "

as shown by saliva, then it really may not be a problem. Maybe Andy

says something about this in AI, I can't remember.

even though I didn't recognize problems/symptoms at

> all. After getting dosages lowered and undergoing a lot of detox &

> amalgam removal, ability to metabolize Cytomel improved, but not the

> others.

>

> Other than progesterone, oral pregnenalone & 7-keto DHEA, I've given

> up on the rest. Both DHEA & estrogren metabolize incorrectly, so

> I'm going on without detectable estradiol, & DHEA and testosterone

> are well below normal in blood work.

What do you mean they metabolize incorrectly? If you feel poorly

on estrogen, you might consider looking at the individual estrogen

types and try treating according to their levels. I don't know any

details about this, but I think this can make a difference for some

people.

> I've long assumed this is very much pituitary/hypothalamic problems

> and know other hormone deficiencies unchecked via bloodwork exist.

I think liver metabolism can have an impact too.

> I work out every other day because it's essential that I sweat

> regularly, but the workouts do often leave me more fatigued for the

> rest of the day. Maybe it's bad for adrenals, but I know it's good

> in so many other respects I wouldn't think of giving it up. I'm low

> sulfate, but epsom salts baths seem harder on me.

What happens with epsom salt baths? Did you start with a small amount

and work up? I had some trouble with epsom salt baths making me

shaky and weak at first, heart pounding, nausea, felt horrible.

I would start low, don't stay in too long, and don't make the water

too hot.

I take all

> appropriate supplements in hypoallergenic forms, including minerals,

> and seriously doubt I'm missing anything.

>

> We did comprehensive testing on lipids. Pre-dental work, I was

> borderline low for cholesterol, especially triglycerides. I've

> increased the percent of fats in my diet significantly in following

> years & all cholesterol levels are up - high & touching past high

> normal now, including a bad form of LDL. It's now apparent

> cholesterol simply doesn't get converted into hormones.

I would have to look up what Andy says in Amalgam Illness about

this. Otherwise, I have heard that guggul helps with both

low and high cholesterol.

> Also to understand things better, I had the liver detox profile test

> done, and I was fast Phase I and slow Phase II in areas critical for

> hormone detoxification, such as glucuronidation & glutathione

Have you tried ideas on p. 43 of AI?

> levels. The cysteine & sulfate levels were low, but I don't know if

> that's useful info for our purposes? Oxidation assessments were

> high. I'm extremely chemical sensitive & have problems with lots of

> phenol compounds found in foods, too.

Do you avoid them in diet? Have you tried No-Fenol? How much

molybdenum do you take? If you have trouble with epsom salt baths,

you can try creams, starting with a small amount. Also, glucosamine

sulfate might help.

> Based on experience & testing, I have a serious concern about trying

> to process/detox any more supplemented hormones on a daily basis

> until chelation can perhaps improve my body's ability to both

> produce, metabolize, and appropriately break down hormones. The

> Geneva Labs hormone analysis clearly shows that with supplemented

> compounded progesterone in the center normal range, conversion to

> other hormones is quite poor. SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin)

> is high, which I suspect is unavoidable & perhaps a result of taking

> T3 and using 1/2 of my low-dose estradiol patches. The estradiol

-> only registers as converting to other estrogens, including the

> metabolite associated with breast cancer. I'm not pushing to do

> more with cortisol at this time, knowing it has to detox via the

> same pathways as estrogen, testosterone, etc. Does this sound

> appropriate?

I don't know. I definitely have trouble with estrogens, but I

don't discern any problem metabolizing cortisol. I think getting

your cortisol levels up is very important for both body and brain

and I would not skimp on it.

> Is this a sensible approach? It's probably more a gut instinct than

> anything. I'm certain my whole CNS is downregulated, as thyroid is

> only helpful when a small dose of stimulant is taken with it (i.e.,

> heart palpitations, fluid accumulation, low body temp, extreme

> fatigue & joint pain, slow/very dull thinking process, etc.). It

Do you mean you get these symptoms when you don't take thyroid with

a stimulant? I have no idea what that means. Maybe someone else

has an idea.

> seems the worst damage has come when I tried to do things as

> naturally as possible (including years of strict avoidance of

> anything with stimulant qualities) and had a severely low metabolism

> as a consequence.

>

> We also tested for and found low normal Vit D levels with high

> normal calcium. Is this typical? I was already supplementing both

> at lowish levels & my doc wants me on more D. I supplement a much

Most of us (toxic or not) are deficient in vitamin D. It's an

important vitamin. I take 1000 IU of...I think D3, cholecalciferol.

I think told me a level of 70 is a target - mine is

still way below that.

> higher amount of magnesium and occasionally use Mag/Potass forms. I

> feel like trying to balance this group of minerals is guesswork &

> have been at it for five years. My hair tests weren't done until

> after the fact and long-term supplementation, so they don't meet

> counting rules. But they still show the expected high Ca, Mg,

> Strontium, low Lithium, and center range Na & K.

>

> A final question - why do I feel more energetic & function best not

> eating much - as in until 2-3 pm? My diet's quite rigid - whole

> food/organic based on multiple allergy testing plus known responses

> to certain things. I never feel like or want to eat until later as

> it easily messes up feeling good enough to get a few things done.

> I've wondered if insulin levels increase appropriately, but that's

> yet another gland/hormone, and haven't shown low glucose or other

> blood indicators for hypoglycemic problems on tests. I'm starting to

> monitor glucose levels a bit myself.

I'm not too familiar with blood sugar issues, but that sounds like

a good idea to investigate. My husband was having blood sugar

problems for awhile. He got sleepy after eating and didn't want

to eat a meal until he got some things done because he knew he would

have trouble doing them after eating.

> Any thoughts are appreciated. I have a great, well-intentioned

> doctor but she doesn't truly understand Hg toxicity or particularly

> wish to. I need to get back with her as she wants me back on DHEA,

> estradiol, etc., but won't touch cortisol. It's an ongoing struggle

> to keep learning, relearning, and piecing together all the

> information myself to determine what best to do.

I agree. It is hard to figure it all out. I wish I knew more and

had some real answers for you. All I can offer is my thoughts above

and hope that something will lead you in a helpful direction.

--

> Thanks,

>

> Joanne

>

February 27, 2008

>

> I'm really struggling with what to do based on recent test results

> for hormones, cholesterol, etc.

>

> Background info on hormones: I've shown all-day borderline low

> cortisol (per saliva testing).

You will likely benefit from physiological cortisol. It would be best

to treat this before adding thryoid hormone.

I clearly benefit in small degrees

> from taking Isocort, have benefitted going off & on with Adrenal

> Stress Formula, & recently seem to benefit from a bit of

> hydrocortisone cream each day. All of my hormones are low or

> borderline low, have been for years, and are very hard to treat.

> Prior to initiating treatment 5 years ago, T4 was high in proportion

> to T3 (each just within normal ranges),

Were these free T4 and free T3? If those haven't yet been tested the

results might help.

so I wound up on

> T3/Cytomel.

Cytomel gives too much T3 too fast and then blood levels drop quickly.

That is very hard on the adrenals, as I learned the hard way. It is

best to use SR T3, with some T4 if needed - after the adrenal problem

has been treated.

Early response to Cytomel & natural creams such as

> progesterone & testosterone was surprisingly good, but follow-up

> tests showed I was accumulating them at dangerous levels in my

> bloodstream, even though I didn't recognize problems/symptoms at

> all. After getting dosages lowered and undergoing a lot of detox &

> amalgam removal, ability to metabolize Cytomel improved, but not the

> others.

>

The high T3 on one test and lower on another could simply be an

artifact of when the samples were drawn in relation to when the

cytomel dose was taken.

> Other than progesterone, oral pregnenalone & 7-keto DHEA, I've given

> up on the rest. Both DHEA & estrogren metabolize incorrectly, so

> I'm going on without detectable estradiol, & DHEA and testosterone

> are well below normal in blood work.

>

You have likely already read them - Dr. Lee's books are useful.

> I've long assumed this is very much pituitary/hypothalamic problems

> and know other hormone deficiencies unchecked via bloodwork exist.

>

> I work out every other day because it's essential that I sweat

> regularly, but the workouts do often leave me more fatigued for the

> rest of the day.

It is good that you can work out. Try not to over do it.

Maybe it's bad for adrenals, but I know it's good

> in so many other respects I wouldn't think of giving it up. I'm low

> sulfate, but epsom salts baths seem harder on me.

I wonder if sulfate could be supplemented gradually - starting at low

doses and building up with time.

I take all

> appropriate supplements in hypoallergenic forms, including minerals,

> and seriously doubt I'm missing anything.

>

> We did comprehensive testing on lipids. Pre-dental work, I was

> borderline low for cholesterol, especially triglycerides. I've

> increased the percent of fats in my diet significantly in following

> years & all cholesterol levels are up - high & touching past high

> normal now, including a bad form of LDL. It's now apparent

> cholesterol simply doesn't get converted into hormones.

>

My cholesterol has always been low too. I have decided not to focus

on it until I chelate more, except for including it in my diet.

> Also to understand things better, I had the liver detox profile test

> done, and I was fast Phase I and slow Phase II in areas critical for

> hormone detoxification, such as glucuronidation & glutathione

> levels. The cysteine & sulfate levels were low, but I don't know if

> that's useful info for our purposes?

If it is the new cysteine test then it's not too useful. Elimination

and challenge can be used to determine if a low cysteine diet is

appropriate. The sulfate level does help - supplementation will push

the levels up.

Oxidation assessments were

> high. I'm extremely chemical sensitive & have problems with lots of

> phenol compounds found in foods, too.

>

I assume that you are using the supplements known to help with

chemical sensitivities.