Re: supplements for omega-3

[Guest guest]

> Question: is a loading dose also needed when starting the cod liver oil?

> How much? For how

> long do you keep administering this loading dose (only one day? every day

> for a month?).

Yes, this is a great question. I would also like to know if anyone can help

figure this out in Tablespoons terms.

Many people have conversion problems from ALA in Flax into EPA in Fish Oils.

So if one is in a position to take so much fish oils, how eactly would one

do the loading dose.

[Guest guest]

> Question: is a loading dose also needed when starting the cod liver oil?

> How much? For how

> long do you keep administering this loading dose (only one day? every day

> for a month?).

Yes, this is a great question. I would also like to know if anyone can help

figure this out in Tablespoons terms.

Many people have conversion problems from ALA in Flax into EPA in Fish Oils.

So if one is in a position to take so much fish oils, how eactly would one

do the loading dose.

[Guest guest]

> Question: is a loading dose also needed when starting the cod liver oil?

> How much? For how

> long do you keep administering this loading dose (only one day? every day

> for a month?).

Yes, this is a great question. I would also like to know if anyone can help

figure this out in Tablespoons terms.

Many people have conversion problems from ALA in Flax into EPA in Fish Oils.

So if one is in a position to take so much fish oils, how eactly would one

do the loading dose.

[Guest guest]

>

> Abrenica asked:

> > Question: is a loading dose also needed when starting the cod

> > liver oil? How much? For how long do you keep administering this

> > loading dose (only one day? every day for a month?).

>

> Yes, this is a great question. I would also like to know if anyone

> can help figure this out in Tablespoons terms.

> Many people have conversion problems from ALA in Flax into EPA in

> Fish Oils. So if one is in a position to take so much fish oils,

> how eactly would one do the loading dose.

>

Personally I haven't been able to do the loading dose. I've barely

worked my daily Flax dose up to 4 Tbsp. I have a really hard time

taking oils, so the amount needed for the loading dose is just out of

the question. It's not a digestion problem - I just gag on oils. But

the number of gels you'd have to take to equal the liquid is prohibitive.

However, I would think that a loading dose of CLO is a different

matter entirely since the CLO contains Vitamins A and D, which the

Flax oil does not. You'd have to calculate how big the doses of A & D

would be and see if it is too much. The amount of A & D varies

between the various CLO formulas.

The other concern I'd have about a loading dose of CLO is the purity

of the oil. There are a lot of brands that swear they are mercury

free, and there are a lot of articles claiming they aren't. You'd

have to be very, very sure of the purity of your CLO before taking a

loading dose.

[Guest guest]

>

> Abrenica asked:

> > Question: is a loading dose also needed when starting the cod

> > liver oil? How much? For how long do you keep administering this

> > loading dose (only one day? every day for a month?).

>

> Yes, this is a great question. I would also like to know if anyone

> can help figure this out in Tablespoons terms.

> Many people have conversion problems from ALA in Flax into EPA in

> Fish Oils. So if one is in a position to take so much fish oils,

> how eactly would one do the loading dose.

>

Personally I haven't been able to do the loading dose. I've barely

worked my daily Flax dose up to 4 Tbsp. I have a really hard time

taking oils, so the amount needed for the loading dose is just out of

the question. It's not a digestion problem - I just gag on oils. But

the number of gels you'd have to take to equal the liquid is prohibitive.

However, I would think that a loading dose of CLO is a different

matter entirely since the CLO contains Vitamins A and D, which the

Flax oil does not. You'd have to calculate how big the doses of A & D

would be and see if it is too much. The amount of A & D varies

between the various CLO formulas.

The other concern I'd have about a loading dose of CLO is the purity

of the oil. There are a lot of brands that swear they are mercury

free, and there are a lot of articles claiming they aren't. You'd

have to be very, very sure of the purity of your CLO before taking a

loading dose.

[Guest guest]

>

> Abrenica asked:

> > Question: is a loading dose also needed when starting the cod

> > liver oil? How much? For how long do you keep administering this

> > loading dose (only one day? every day for a month?).

>

> Yes, this is a great question. I would also like to know if anyone

> can help figure this out in Tablespoons terms.

> Many people have conversion problems from ALA in Flax into EPA in

> Fish Oils. So if one is in a position to take so much fish oils,

> how eactly would one do the loading dose.

>

Personally I haven't been able to do the loading dose. I've barely

worked my daily Flax dose up to 4 Tbsp. I have a really hard time

taking oils, so the amount needed for the loading dose is just out of

the question. It's not a digestion problem - I just gag on oils. But

the number of gels you'd have to take to equal the liquid is prohibitive.

However, I would think that a loading dose of CLO is a different

matter entirely since the CLO contains Vitamins A and D, which the

Flax oil does not. You'd have to calculate how big the doses of A & D

would be and see if it is too much. The amount of A & D varies

between the various CLO formulas.

The other concern I'd have about a loading dose of CLO is the purity

of the oil. There are a lot of brands that swear they are mercury

free, and there are a lot of articles claiming they aren't. You'd

have to be very, very sure of the purity of your CLO before taking a

loading dose.

[Guest guest]

>

> It's not a matter of getting more vit. A and D, Andy said it's a

> matter of equilibrating the quantity of omega-3 EFAs in the internal

> body tissues. That's what needs to happen--especially in the brain

> tissues--to maximize effectiveness of the protocol and the

> supplements.

>

> That's what I want to find out how to do with cod liver oil. Anybody

> know the right loading dose?

>

>

The point is CLO *does* have A & D and you must account for it. I

understand that you are not *after* the A & D. But you cannot avoid

it, either. You can't ignore it. You need to take it into account.

1 teaspoon of Nordic Naturals CLO contains from 1500-2750 iu Vitamin A

and 5-4o iu Vitamin D. You mentioned a base loading dose of 8 ounces,

which is 48 teaspoons. So, without adding the extra per pound, your

base loading dose of CLO would contain from 72000-132000 iu of Vitamin

A and 240-1920 iu of Vitamin D. That's a lot of vitamin A.

Andy talks about a loading dose of Flax oil, which does not contain A

& D. You are trying to adapt that to cod liver oil, which does.

Whenever you try to alter the protocol, you need to think carefully

about what you are doing and what consequences there might be. If

Andy says take a loading dose of Flax oil you can't just say you'll do

it with CLO instead and think it will do the same thing. They may

both be EFAs, but they are not completely interchangeable.

I think many/most of us use both. There are benefits to taking the

appropriate dose of CLO for your own health, and then getting the rest

of your EFAs as Flax oil.

[Guest guest]

>

> It's not a matter of getting more vit. A and D, Andy said it's a

> matter of equilibrating the quantity of omega-3 EFAs in the internal

> body tissues. That's what needs to happen--especially in the brain

> tissues--to maximize effectiveness of the protocol and the

> supplements.

>

> That's what I want to find out how to do with cod liver oil. Anybody

> know the right loading dose?

>

>

The point is CLO *does* have A & D and you must account for it. I

understand that you are not *after* the A & D. But you cannot avoid

it, either. You can't ignore it. You need to take it into account.

1 teaspoon of Nordic Naturals CLO contains from 1500-2750 iu Vitamin A

and 5-4o iu Vitamin D. You mentioned a base loading dose of 8 ounces,

which is 48 teaspoons. So, without adding the extra per pound, your

base loading dose of CLO would contain from 72000-132000 iu of Vitamin

A and 240-1920 iu of Vitamin D. That's a lot of vitamin A.

Andy talks about a loading dose of Flax oil, which does not contain A

& D. You are trying to adapt that to cod liver oil, which does.

Whenever you try to alter the protocol, you need to think carefully

about what you are doing and what consequences there might be. If

Andy says take a loading dose of Flax oil you can't just say you'll do

it with CLO instead and think it will do the same thing. They may

both be EFAs, but they are not completely interchangeable.

I think many/most of us use both. There are benefits to taking the

appropriate dose of CLO for your own health, and then getting the rest

of your EFAs as Flax oil.

[Guest guest]

Point well taken. The loading dose concept probably should not be taken that far

with Cod liver oil. But as far as the Vit. A and D are concerned, that's exactly

one of the reasons why I prefer Cod liver oil.

Andy writes about the Vitamin A requirement and suggests carotenoid complex for

it. However, Åccording to Sally Fallon and Enig, of the Weston A Price

Foundation,

" The many conditions that interfere with the conversion of carotenes in plant

foods to vitamin A include:

Being an infant or child

Diabetes

Low Thyroid Function

Low Fat Intake

Intestinal Roundworms

Diarrhea

Pancreatic Disease

Celiac Disease

Sprue

Unless you are an arctic explorer, it is virtually impossible to develop

vitamin-A toxicity from food. The putative toxic dose of 100,000 IU per day

would be contained in 3 tablespoons of high vitamin cod liver oil, 6 tablespoons

of regular cod liver oil, two-and-one-half 100-gram servings of duck liver,

about three 100-gram servings of beef liver, seven pounds of butter or 309 egg

yolks. Even synthetic vitamin A is not toxic when given as a single large dose

or in small amounts on a daily basis. "

One of my mercury poisoning symptoms is low thyroid function. Some people are

trying to chelate their child. Some people need a GFCF diet due to celiac

disease. All of these things indicate that the the carotenoid complex Andy is

recommending for a precurser to vitamin A may not really convert to vitamin A

for that individual. So getting all that Vit. A from the CLO is exactly what I

want. It kills quite a few birds with one stone.

But I won't take 8 oz. of it as a loading dose, thanks to your input,

yankeeexile and . I'll stick with whatever quantity that will provide

25,000 IU Vitamin A. Omega 3 EFAs and instant Vit. A and D all in one.

Abrenica

> >

> > It's not a matter of getting more vit. A and D, Andy said it's a

> > matter of equilibrating the quantity of omega-3 EFAs in the internal

> > body tissues. That's what needs to happen--especially in the brain

> > tissues--to maximize effectiveness of the protocol and the

> > supplements.

> >

> > That's what I want to find out how to do with cod liver oil. Anybody know

the right loading dose?

> >

> >

>

> The point is CLO *does* have A & D and you must account for it. I

> understand that you are not *after* the A & D. But you cannot avoid

> it, either. You can't ignore it. You need to take it into account.

>

> 1 teaspoon of Nordic Naturals CLO contains from 1500-2750 iu Vitamin A

> and 5-4o iu Vitamin D. You mentioned a base loading dose of 8 ounces,

> which is 48 teaspoons. So, without adding the extra per pound, your

> base loading dose of CLO would contain from 72000-132000 iu of Vitamin

> A and 240-1920 iu of Vitamin D. That's a lot of vitamin A.

>

> Andy talks about a loading dose of Flax oil, which does not contain A

> & D. You are trying to adapt that to cod liver oil, which does.

>

> Whenever you try to alter the protocol, you need to think carefully

> about what you are doing and what consequences there might be. If

> Andy says take a loading dose of Flax oil you can't just say you'll do

> it with CLO instead and think it will do the same thing. They may

> both be EFAs, but they are not completely interchangeable.

>

> I think many/most of us use both. There are benefits to taking the

> appropriate dose of CLO for your own health, and then getting the rest

> of your EFAs as Flax oil.

>

[Guest guest]

Point well taken. The loading dose concept probably should not be taken that far

with Cod liver oil. But as far as the Vit. A and D are concerned, that's exactly

one of the reasons why I prefer Cod liver oil.

Andy writes about the Vitamin A requirement and suggests carotenoid complex for

it. However, Åccording to Sally Fallon and Enig, of the Weston A Price

Foundation,

" The many conditions that interfere with the conversion of carotenes in plant

foods to vitamin A include:

Being an infant or child

Diabetes

Low Thyroid Function

Low Fat Intake

Intestinal Roundworms

Diarrhea

Pancreatic Disease

Celiac Disease

Sprue

Unless you are an arctic explorer, it is virtually impossible to develop

vitamin-A toxicity from food. The putative toxic dose of 100,000 IU per day

would be contained in 3 tablespoons of high vitamin cod liver oil, 6 tablespoons

of regular cod liver oil, two-and-one-half 100-gram servings of duck liver,

about three 100-gram servings of beef liver, seven pounds of butter or 309 egg

yolks. Even synthetic vitamin A is not toxic when given as a single large dose

or in small amounts on a daily basis. "

One of my mercury poisoning symptoms is low thyroid function. Some people are

trying to chelate their child. Some people need a GFCF diet due to celiac

disease. All of these things indicate that the the carotenoid complex Andy is

recommending for a precurser to vitamin A may not really convert to vitamin A

for that individual. So getting all that Vit. A from the CLO is exactly what I

want. It kills quite a few birds with one stone.

But I won't take 8 oz. of it as a loading dose, thanks to your input,

yankeeexile and . I'll stick with whatever quantity that will provide

25,000 IU Vitamin A. Omega 3 EFAs and instant Vit. A and D all in one.

Abrenica

> >

> > It's not a matter of getting more vit. A and D, Andy said it's a

> > matter of equilibrating the quantity of omega-3 EFAs in the internal

> > body tissues. That's what needs to happen--especially in the brain

> > tissues--to maximize effectiveness of the protocol and the

> > supplements.

> >

> > That's what I want to find out how to do with cod liver oil. Anybody know

the right loading dose?

> >

> >

>

> The point is CLO *does* have A & D and you must account for it. I

> understand that you are not *after* the A & D. But you cannot avoid

> it, either. You can't ignore it. You need to take it into account.

>

> 1 teaspoon of Nordic Naturals CLO contains from 1500-2750 iu Vitamin A

> and 5-4o iu Vitamin D. You mentioned a base loading dose of 8 ounces,

> which is 48 teaspoons. So, without adding the extra per pound, your

> base loading dose of CLO would contain from 72000-132000 iu of Vitamin

> A and 240-1920 iu of Vitamin D. That's a lot of vitamin A.

>

> Andy talks about a loading dose of Flax oil, which does not contain A

> & D. You are trying to adapt that to cod liver oil, which does.

>

> Whenever you try to alter the protocol, you need to think carefully

> about what you are doing and what consequences there might be. If

> Andy says take a loading dose of Flax oil you can't just say you'll do

> it with CLO instead and think it will do the same thing. They may

> both be EFAs, but they are not completely interchangeable.

>

> I think many/most of us use both. There are benefits to taking the

> appropriate dose of CLO for your own health, and then getting the rest

> of your EFAs as Flax oil.

>

[Guest guest]

One more consideration, for those who do wish to do a loading dose of CLO for

the purpose of equilibriating the omega 3 EFAs:

It is possible to buy cod liver oil or fish oils that have had the Vitamins A

and D removed.

I recognize that this is a modification, or variation, or extrapolation, if you

will, on Andy's recommendations. But if one is concerned about an individual

body not converting the flax oil into omega-3s (as some have this concern), one

could reach a logical conclusion for cod liver oil that a loading dose of CLO

could be the solution to that problem.

Carlson's sells CLO without Vit. D in the summer, and also without the Vit. A.

There are probably plenty of brands available without those two vitamins,

because they can be removed from the oil. One could load body with this cod

liver oil or salmon oil that contains no Vit. A or Vit. D (once you check the

label), to equilibrate the inner body tissue, and then back off to consume a

regular maintenance dose of the regular cod liver oil--the type that also gives

the benefit of the Vit. A and Vit. D. Say, after you finish the first Vitamin

A-free bottle.

> >

> > Hi.

> >

> > On page 100 of Amalgam Illness, Andy talks about the need to do a

> loading dose of 8 oz. Flax Oil (plus 1 T. for every pound you are over your

ideal weight), in addition to your maintenance dose. He said this is because it

takes over a year for the omega 3's to get into your internal organs (though it

takes only a week or so to balance out in your blood cells).

> >

> > We want to use cod liver oil for omega-3's, because it also has

> Vitamin A.

> >

> > Question: is a loading dose also needed when starting the cod liver

> oil? How much? For how

> > long do you keep administering this loading dose (only one day?

> every day for a month?).

> >

>

>

> I would not use a loading dose. I would use 2 T cod liver oil/day.

> That can be taken over the long term. (After some years I reduced to

> 1 T/day simply because the pure CLO is so expensive, and added flax

> oil as a cheaper source of omega 3).

>

> 2T CLO would contain about 2400 iu vitamin D. It is ok to take that

> amount without testing. Check other supplements to see if you are

> getting vitamin D from them and how much. When supplementing more

> than about 2000-2500 iu vit D per day a person should have blood tests

> occasionally for 25(OH)vitamin D.

>

> The exception would be pregnant women or women who might become

> pregnant. They need to be careful not to have more than 10,000 iu Vit

> A per day. Check the CLO to see how much vit A it contains.

>

> It is important to have the purest form of CLO to avoid mercury and

> PCBs. We generally recommend Nordic Naturals in this group.

>

> J

>

>

>

>

>

> > What if we've been taking 1 tsp. of cod liver oil daily already for

> about 6 months. Then, would

> > a lesser loading dose balance the internal organs with omega- 3s?

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

> > Abrenica

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> I recognize that this is a modification, or variation, or extrapolation,

> if you will, on Andy's recommendations. But if one is concerned about an

> individual body not converting the flax oil into omega-3s (as some have

> this concern), one could reach a logical conclusion for cod liver oil that

> a loading dose of CLO could be the solution to that problem.

Hi ,

It is not a complete modification because Andy does say on pg 100 (AI) that,

" Some people do not convert the linolenic acid in flax oil to EPA and DHA.

If skin dryness does not improve, inflammation continues at high levels

etc.....another fatty acid profile will reveal whether this is happening. If

so either large amounts of fish oil must be taken (usually economically

impractical), large quantities of mackerel consumed, or assorted means must

be used to activated the conversion enzymes. This is discussed in many

popular works and websites " .

My questions if anyone can help please:

1 - how much fish oil and for how long if this is the case (if economic

constraints were not a limiting factor)?

2 - what fatty acid profile and how does one know what results are you

looking for?

3 - how long does one maintain the loading dose of flax for, and can this

have any side effects? I remember someone saying it has an estrogenic effect

in the liver or something along those lines?

4 - do fish oils and CLO both carry Vit D and A?

5 - how are oils best taken, with food?

Andy mentions later that if you want to reduce inflammatory conditions

immediately take 10-30grams of fish oil (? Tablespoons) for a month while

the flax oil derived linolenic acid saturates the blood and starts to work

on other tissues.

Thanks,

Dean

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

> It is not a complete modification because Andy does say on pg 100

(AI) that,

> " Some people do not convert the linolenic acid in flax oil to EPA

and DHA.

> If skin dryness does not improve, inflammation continues at high levels

> etc.....another fatty acid profile will reveal whether this is

happening. If

> so either large amounts of fish oil must be taken (usually economically

> impractical), large quantities of mackerel consumed, or assorted

means must

> be used to activated the conversion enzymes. This is discussed in many

> popular works and websites " .

>

> My questions if anyone can help please:

> 1 - how much fish oil and for how long if this is the case (if economic

> constraints were not a limiting factor)?

I spent some time studying the omega 6/omega 3 ratio stuff and how

much we get from diet etc. The conclusion was that with the diet I am

on I get sufficient omega 6 from food and in order to get the right

amount of omega 3 I would need 2 T CLO, fish oil, flax oil, or some

combination, per day. That is for every day, not for a loading dose.

Then I found Cutler's book and that he suggests about the same amount

(only he says flax oil, partly because it is less expensive and not

likely to contain contaminants).

Most people haven't been getting that amount per day for a long time

and that's where a loading dose would come in. I hesitate to guess

what would be an optimal loading dose and for how long. It would have

to be ultra pure fish oil and the quantities of vit A and D would need

to be taken into account. The thing to go by would be the alleviation

of symptoms that Andy mentions above (skin dryness, inflammation, any

others that he has mentioned elsewhere).

> 2 - what fatty acid profile and how does one know what results are you

> looking for?

Genova does an Essential and Metabolic Fatty Acids Analysis (probably

other labs too). The results would probably be straight forward to

read (I searched and couldn't get a sample report). It would be an

expensive test and not necessary for most people. We already know

that 99 % of people on a N American type diet need more omega 3 and

less omega 6. If people are using flax oil and not getting results

(or not tolerating it) they can be fairly sure that their body can't

make the conversion yet. With chelation they might be able to make

the conversion eventually. Some people genetically might not be able

to make the conversion and do better with fish oil.

> 3 - how long does one maintain the loading dose of flax for, and can

this

> have any side effects?

That would be an individual thing. I wouldn't stay on a loading dose

for long because balance between omega 6 and omega 3 is important and

there are consequences of turning the balance in the other way.

I remember someone saying it has an estrogenic effect

> in the liver or something along those lines?

> 4 - do fish oils and CLO both carry Vit D and A?

Someone said that there are ones that have had A and D removed. I

haven't checked.

> 5 - how are oils best taken, with food?

>

Yes. If there is trouble with burping up a fishy (or flaxy) oil taste

they can be taken with lecithin which acts as an emulsifier. Some

people need lipase.

> Andy mentions later that if you want to reduce inflammatory conditions

> immediately take 10-30grams of fish oil (? Tablespoons)

15 g is approx 1 T, so he and I are in agreement (I said 1-2 T).

> for a month

Assuming the person wants to (and has the necessary enzymes to) switch

to flax as their source of omega 3. It is acceptable to continue to

take 1-2 T of fish oil as the omega 3 source.

J

while

> the flax oil derived linolenic acid saturates the blood and starts

to work

> on other tissues.

>

> Thanks,

> Dean

>

[Guest guest]

>> 5 - how are oils best taken, with food?

> Yes. If there is trouble with burping up a fishy (or flaxy) oil taste

> they can be taken with lecithin which acts as an emulsifier. Some

> people need lipase.

Thanks very much for the excellent response .

Would the above information apply to someone that has nausea with oils?

He is in need of fish oils, but feels quite nauseas when he takes them, and

other oils.

He has high candida counts on stool test and is addressing that, but a tip

to help him with the nausea would be great.

Perhaps the lipase?

Thanks,

DeanSA

[Guest guest]

>

>

> >> 5 - how are oils best taken, with food?

>

> > Yes. If there is trouble with burping up a fishy (or flaxy) oil taste

> > they can be taken with lecithin which acts as an emulsifier. Some

> > people need lipase.

>

> Thanks very much for the excellent response .

> Would the above information apply to someone that has nausea with oils?

I don't know. He could try lecithin or lipase several times and see

if that helps. Many people are intolerant of flax oil and some of

certain fish oils.

> He is in need of fish oils, but feels quite nauseas when he takes

them, and

> other oils.

> He has high candida counts on stool test and is addressing that, but

a tip

> to help him with the nausea would be great.

> Perhaps the lipase?

This is from my " Remington Pharmaceutical Sciences "

" Any disorder which decreases the synthesis, secretion or reabsorption

of bile acids can result in fat malabsorption by impairing

emulsification and micelle formation. " .... " Bacterial overgrowth in

the small intestine causes deconjugation and dehydroxylation of bile

acids which may then precipitate and fail to be reabsorbed. "

If the lecithin or lipase don't help he could try extra bile. Also,

tons of probiotics to drive out bacterial overgrowth (high candida

counts doesn't rule out bacterial overgrowth). Deleting sugar and

starch from the diet, taking extra stomach acid and enzymes so that

things get broken down and quickly absorbed.

J

> Thanks,

> DeanSA

>