Re: New Men

[Guest guest]

Lorraine: I do understand how cheated you feel of your DH's time and

attention when you were giving birth, but just to put it into

perspective; and I'm not saying this is *right*, just that's how it

was, and is!....

It was only when I became an ANT that I realised that some husbands

actually take time off when their wives have a baby! In our culture,

it is normal for a DH to be at the birth (maybe!!, if she's lucky!!)

and to rush straight off to the office afterwards. One woman I know

said her DH told her in no uncertain terms that he could not be

expected to attend the birth if it fell on his football nights.

OK this is extreme, and I would have expected my DH to put footie

aside, had he played it. But work..that's another matter for our

Jewish males, apparently. They never take any time off at all for

something as insignificant as a baby! We mums are expected to make our

own childcare arrangements when we have a baby, our menfolk are not to

be involved in that side of things! They may help out a bit once they

come home from work, but that's it. Most women I know park their

older kids out with friends or grandparents when they have a baby, or

if they are school aged, arrange to have them go to friends after

school till bedtime, coming home fed, bathed and in pajamas so all

poor DH has to do is send them to bed.

When I had DD2 (1972) he was a newly qualified solicitor and as yet

had no partner or secretary (to speak of) so was literally on one foot

in the labour room looking at his watch all the time. In the end this

irritated me so much I told him to get the hell out of there. He did,

gratefully, and came back just after DD2 was born. I didn't really

forgive him, and afterwards I told him in future he could bring his

entire office into the labour with him, but he wasn't going anywhere!

He more or less took me literally, and always came with a briefcase

full of work, sat in the corner and got on with it! As neither of us

had really been to any antenatal classes, he didn't know how to be a

New Man[tm] and be supportive, so just him being there was enough for

both of us.

This New Man thing, with men taking two weeks, or even one week off,

after a baby is born, was a total revelation to me when I started

teaching!

Ruthie

> Which brings me to something that really bothers me to this day,

sorry

> if it's long but not managed to get it off my chest ever before.

When

> DS3 was born, he was a week early. DH's business partner who had

been

> told not to book any holidays off in May (DS3 was due 15th May),

> booked the first week off, not arriving home until 10th May. In the

> early hours of 8th May I was rushed by ambulance to hospital

bleeding

> heavily (another story). Dh came to the hospital and sat with me.

> But next morning he had an urgent delivery of boxes still in his car

> (he'd put his suit on to come to hospital so he could go straight to

> work afterwards) and couldn't use his mobile in the hospital, so he

> spent most of my labour in the car park phoning up B line and then

> waiting in the car park for them. My waters were broken whilst he

was

> out there, and then at one point the man from B Line turned up on

the

> labour ward looking for him, but he was in the car park! Basically

dh

> came back inside just 1/2 an hour before DS3 was born, and was then

> very surprised how far things had progressed. DS3 was born and

after

> about an hour we were taken down to the Ward. DH then rushed off to

> work. I had neighbours looking after all the other kids, although

> thankfully 2 of them were at school by then. DH turned up later in

> the evening with all the kids.

>

> DH swears that family will always come before work, but sometimes I

> wonder........

>

> Lorraine

> Mum to 10, Natasha 8, 5, ph 3

[Guest guest]

>>>Ruthie wrote:

>>>This New Man thing, with men taking two weeks, or even one week off, after a

baby is born, was a total revelation to me when I started teaching!

But is it not true Ruthie that in your culture you also tend to live in quite

close-knit communities, with perhaps a range of relatives and/or friends around?

It is just the impression I have from many of my Jewish friends, that they often

have parents, sisters, friends from the synagogue, all in a relatively short

distance away. Is that your feeling to, or does it just look like this from the

outside?

So I wonder if partly the man's involvement is not just the " new man " idea, but

also the lack of anyone else around to help, as more and more people move cities

away from their family and friends. It was very common in Norway too only half a

century ago to depend much more on the immediate environment, but nowadays

there's usually noone around to help other than perhaps your mum, who is usually

working full time in another part of the country.

My family has been brilliant in flying to the UK to help when I've my children,

but of course they could only stay a short time, and couldn't time their flights

to necessarily coincide with the birth. So it was either DH or nothing, really.

He's taken 2 weeks off both times (minimum, I think, if there's noone else

around...), but mostly holiday since his paternity leave was only 5 and 2 days

respectively.

Karina

Mum to Emilia (Oct 98) and Sebastian (Aug 00)

[Guest guest]

Karina:

Yes you are right, most of us do live in communities where we can call

upon relatives and friends. And certainly if there was no one else,

our DH's would have to pitch in and do their bit.

OTOH from the classes I teach and the women I talk to about what

support network they have after their babies are born, *very* few of

them have absolutely no one but their partners. Most have, at the

very least, an indulgent granny turning up and outstaying her

welcome!

And in those cases the DH's still take time off, whereas to our lot

that would be a carte blanche excuse to s*d off back to the office!

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

Karina:

Yes you are right, most of us do live in communities where we can call

upon relatives and friends. And certainly if there was no one else,

our DH's would have to pitch in and do their bit.

OTOH from the classes I teach and the women I talk to about what

support network they have after their babies are born, *very* few of

them have absolutely no one but their partners. Most have, at the

very least, an indulgent granny turning up and outstaying her

welcome!

And in those cases the DH's still take time off, whereas to our lot

that would be a carte blanche excuse to s*d off back to the office!

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

> I didn't really have anyone other than DH, who took 2 weeks off. Mum

came to

> stay in week 3, but our relationship was rather strained before I

gave birth

> so it was rather awkward, also our maisonette was a bit small and

mum had to

> sleep in the lounge (which she didn't really like). I guess this was

it. I

> had to rely on HV and social services.

> No wonder I had PND.

>

>

Well, despite what I said previously, I had precious little help when

I had my babies either. If I did hire paid help I got rid of them as

soon as I possibly could, I hated having them around. My parents,

lovely though they were, were non-coping types and I usually supported

*them* when they needed *me* rather than the other way around. I was

the " Just get on with it " type, even with my first.

When I had my eighth, my eldest daughter (17 at the time) came home

from college to help me with the other kids for a few days.

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

> had to rely on HV and social services.

> No wonder I had PND.

>

>

We all (well most of us anyway) get pissed off with marriage from time

to time. The one good thing about my DH is that he recognises his

faults most of the time even though I doubt I'll change him now at our

advanced age LOL

When we were newer marrieds, (when I had two living and functioning

parents and so did he) I felt very unsupported sometimes by my parents

if I had a row with DH, cos they always took his side, and so did my

in-laws !

Yesterday morning my MIL phoned us at 7.20 a.m. (she's getting old and

doddery now at around 85 yrs old)..neither of us was up to answer the

phone. Later that morning I took her out somewhere and told her that

I had heard the phone ringing somewhere in my subconscious early that

morning. " Oh dear, " MIL said, " I do hope I didn't wake ph up. "

Get the idea?

(ph being DH! )

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

> had to rely on HV and social services.

> No wonder I had PND.

>

>

We all (well most of us anyway) get pissed off with marriage from time

to time. The one good thing about my DH is that he recognises his

faults most of the time even though I doubt I'll change him now at our

advanced age LOL

When we were newer marrieds, (when I had two living and functioning

parents and so did he) I felt very unsupported sometimes by my parents

if I had a row with DH, cos they always took his side, and so did my

in-laws !

Yesterday morning my MIL phoned us at 7.20 a.m. (she's getting old and

doddery now at around 85 yrs old)..neither of us was up to answer the

phone. Later that morning I took her out somewhere and told her that

I had heard the phone ringing somewhere in my subconscious early that

morning. " Oh dear, " MIL said, " I do hope I didn't wake ph up. "

Get the idea?

(ph being DH! )

Ruthie

[Guest guest]

> OTOH from the classes I teach and the women I talk to about what

> support network they have after their babies are born, *very* few of

> them have absolutely no one but their partners. Most have, at the

> very least, an indulgent granny turning up and outstaying her

> welcome!

>

> And in those cases the DH's still take time off, whereas to our lot

> that would be a carte blanche excuse to s*d off back to the office!

With each of my babies, my Mum has come to run the house for the first week to

two weeks after the birth. DH has taken time off *after* she has gone home so

that I have had an extra week of help before launching back into real life.

Lynda

SAHM to (8), (5), Fraser (3), Callum (15/5/00)

Newsletter editor, Mid-Northumberland Branch

Area Rep, Region 7

www.familygarland.co.uk

[Guest guest]

> OTOH from the classes I teach and the women I talk to about what

> support network they have after their babies are born, *very* few of

> them have absolutely no one but their partners. Most have, at the

> very least, an indulgent granny turning up and outstaying her

> welcome!

>

> And in those cases the DH's still take time off, whereas to our lot

> that would be a carte blanche excuse to s*d off back to the office!

With each of my babies, my Mum has come to run the house for the first week to

two weeks after the birth. DH has taken time off *after* she has gone home so

that I have had an extra week of help before launching back into real life.

Lynda

SAHM to (8), (5), Fraser (3), Callum (15/5/00)

Newsletter editor, Mid-Northumberland Branch

Area Rep, Region 7

www.familygarland.co.uk

[Guest guest]

>

> It was only when I became an ANT that I realised that some husbands

> actually take time off when their wives have a baby! In our culture,

> it is normal for a DH to be at the birth (maybe!!, if she's lucky!!)

> and to rush straight off to the office afterwards. One woman I know

> said her DH told her in no uncertain terms that he could not be

> expected to attend the birth if it fell on his football nights.

>

> Ruthie

>

--------------------------

I know this is a totally different generation but my dad was at work when I

was born and didn't rush home to see me (he didn't believe he had a daughter

after 2 sons) and when my younger brother was born he didn't see him until

he was 3 days old (but that time he had to look after the 3 of us, on his

own, as there was no-one else).

And talking of football taking priority........

When my grandparents married, they married on a Sunday so my grandfather

could play football on Saturday and they had to return from their honeymoon

by the Friday, again for football. My grandfather was adamant and my

grandmother never stopped repeating it!!!:-)

I couldn't imagine what it would be like going through labour and the those

precious first hours without DH by my side. But I suppose you just 'get on

with it' and wish it were different.

Janet

[Guest guest]

> I couldn't imagine what it would be like going through labour and

the those

> precious first hours without DH by my side. But I suppose you just

'get on

> with it' and wish it were different.

DH is coming nowhere near the delivery next time, if there ever is

one. We're both agreed on that.

He didn't really want to be there the first time but we'd both been

convinced by friends that he'd miss out if he wasn't. Never again. I

ended up having a CS anyway and he didn't come into that.

--

Sue

[Guest guest]

> I couldn't imagine what it would be like going through labour and

the those

> precious first hours without DH by my side. But I suppose you just

'get on

> with it' and wish it were different.

DH is coming nowhere near the delivery next time, if there ever is

one. We're both agreed on that.

He didn't really want to be there the first time but we'd both been

convinced by friends that he'd miss out if he wasn't. Never again. I

ended up having a CS anyway and he didn't come into that.

--

Sue

[Guest guest]

> > OTOH from the classes I teach and the women I talk to about what

> > support network they have after their babies are born, *very* few

of

> > them have absolutely no one but their partners. Most have, at the

> > very least, an indulgent granny turning up and outstaying her

> > welcome!

>

> I didn't really have anyone other than DH, who took 2 weeks off. >

I have never had anybody but dh who took varying times off. With DS1

he stayed off for just 2 days. The midwife came to visit when he'd

gone back to work and with a big frown on her face said " I hope your

husband has only gone shopping " . " Oh yes " I replied, lying through my

teeth. With DD he took a week off and then with DS2 I had the luxury

of 2 weeks. DS3 just a week as he was very busy at work. Although I

would have absolutely LOVED more help, I think in a way, not having

the help got me into a routine and back to normal quite quickly.

Lorraine

Mum to 10, Natasha 8, 5, ph 3